Condemned By The Stars

mpaccio

New member
Any insight is truly appreciated.

Sun Opposite Saturn, Sun conjunct Chiron, Saturn opposite Chiron I think are really hard on me. Also Pluto is square my Jupiter and is in my Twelfth House.

Unfortunately, my nightmares happen during the day...I suppose that's an improvement from my childhood years when it was day and night. Life direction, purpose, or how to heal anyone? Please...

Chart, Aspects, and Positions

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retinoid

Well-known member
I use whole signs so Pluto is in your FIRST house. My tiny summary of your chart without isolating each aspect is that you probably want your life to be a certain way but you keep getting smacked down. Perhaps you want recognition and fame and really feel like you could get there, but something is 'preventing' you. You may come off to people as pretty cold/reserved/distant/a little menacing which doesn't help in attaining what you want deep inside. Overall, if you go out and start talking to people, you probably do make friends. There could be some friction eventually with friends, but the ability to make them is there. Emotionally, you want to be of service. If someone really appreciates what you do for them or if you get recognition for doing something for someone else, you get a huge emotional boost. Home life, especially early life, was most likely either not pleasant or there was a suffocating presence. Perhaps lack of love or feeling distant from your parents. This affects you till today. It also carries on from preventing you to fulfill your dreams. A home in general may feel lacking. With getting through any emotional baggage that you have (good therapist) and changing from a more intimidating/stand offish type to someone who is emanates 'power' is the way to get your life moving. This could probably be done through having good friends and just letting loose or having a purpose that you care about and are working towards...preferably something that is humanitarian or improvement in some way. Hope this helped at least a little...
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
The central figure in your horoscope is the Sun opposing Saturn. It is around this aspect that your life turns. This is not to say it is the only important thing in the chart (look at that Fanhandle formation focused on the self-pitying Pisces Moon, the square of Jupiter to Pluto [I normally use the traditional sign rulerships, but here Pluto is "in his own house" and I would certainly consider him potent if not ruling the Scorpio Ascendant, regardless of house system used]), but it is describes the central core of the life challenge. All planets below the horizon are retrograde. You are destined to live as a solitary creature, a lone wolf; you need this in order to become what you already are, and what you are meant to be.

Life is not easy. You are very young yet. You can't change your destiny, but you can change the way you look at things. And that is the clue. Slowly, little by little, step by step, set about changing the way you look at life. Not easy, not quick, but what other options do you have? Hardship, pain and suffering are positive things -- not pleasant things, but in the long run good and necessary.

We become what we imagine ourselves to be. That is a basic psychological fact -- we create ourselves. So, as your own Creator, what do you want to become? No one can really help you. You have to do it yourself. As long as you depend on others, you will remain mired in that feeling of helplessness, a victim. It's up to you.

If you do not or cannot succeed in the outer world, then what is the alternative? It is to turn inward and succeed in the spiritual world. Life is essentially a spiritual affair anyway. When I turned 21 I decided to become a millionaire by the age of 24. At age 23, seeing that my plans were unlikely to succeed, I changed my goal. I decided to become a failure, and I have succeeded at that beyond my wildest dreams. Be realisitic, be creative, and have fun every single day.
 
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DreamingTheSeas

Well-known member
If you do not or cannot succeed in the outer world, then what is the alternative? It is to turn inward and succeed in the spiritual world. Life is essentially a spiritual affair anyway. When I turned 21 I decided to become a millionaire by the age of 24. At age 23, seeing that my plans were unlikely to succeed, I changed my goal. I decided to become a failure, and I have succeeded at that beyond my wildest dreams. Be realisitic, be creative, and have fun every single day.

greybeard you make me smile, a big warm smile. You are a charmer!
 

mpaccio

New member
These blurbs are so accurate it is like magic - the two of you are surely astrological wizards.

Thank You.

Retinoid I don't understand what you mean by using whole signs and the fact that makes it the first house. Is that a widely used way of interpreting charts? What do you mean and how does it work? Surely something like that would change the meaning greatly.
 
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retinoid

Well-known member
These blurbs are so accurate it is like magic - the two of you are surely astrological wizards.

Thank You.

Retinoid I don't understand what you mean by using whole signs and the fact that makes it the first house. Is that a widely used way of interpreting charts? What do you mean and how does it work? Surely something like that would change the meaning greatly.

Whole house is the oldest form of house structure and is accurate for my readings. Yes it can change things a lot. If you found my reading accurate then it rang true for you, if you didn't find it accurate then you should ignore it.

I also disagree w/ the above. I don't think you should live a solitary life. I think your life direction will push you into communicating with others and learning about many different things and getting tastes of many different things...friends and general causes are what will HELP fulfilling your life's purpose IMO...
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
Three planets are retrograde below the horizon and none are direct; Sun opposes Saturn as the central aspect of the chart; Saturn, ruler of the Third, is retrograde and (in Placidus houses) intercepted in his own house, and beholds no other Ptolemaic aspect but the opposition; Pluto stands within 3 degrees of the horizon regardless of house system, and Jupiter squares him from on high. Scorpio is secretive. The Pisces Moon requires serene conditions, most often found in solitude, reclusion and is focal in the chart; Venus is in her fall, conjunct Mars, and rules Seventh and Eleventh (11th again in Placidus, but in whole sign the 12th) ...

A horoscope describes what is, not what we think should be. The conditions described in the chart, its depiction of what the life will be like, are there for a reason. The beautiful butterfly went through a long period of dissolution and formlessness before emergence.

All of us tend to cling to unrealistic expectations in life, and that is simply setting ourselves up for disappointment and disillusionment, besides making us act crazy. The trick is to see life for what it is, accept it on its own terms, and be happy.

In explanation of "whole sign houses," the entire sign on the Ascendant (here Scorpio is Rising) is taken to be the First House, and then each sign in succession coincides with the following houses. In the Placidus system of houses (the one used for your chart as you have it and the one I use), the house cusps are determined by dividing the space between the Ascendant and the Midheaven by use of complex algorithms. The Whole Sign house system (where signs and houses are one and the same) was used until around 160 of the present era (surely earlier, but the first written description of this new idea that I am aware of was written about that time,) when astrologers developed what is now known as the Porphyry system of houses. There are presently something like two dozen different systems of house division in use. -- In your chart you see that Pluto is about 3 degrees above the horizon; he has already "come up". So Placidus Houses place him in the 12th House, because the houses begin at the Ascendant, or point where the ecliptic (zodiacal belt) intersects the horizon. But in the Whole Sign system, even though Pluto is already 3 degrees above the horizon he is in the First House because he is in the sign of Scorpio, which is the sign on the Ascendant at the moment of birth. Astrologers like to argue about house systems. For the layman it is a non-topic, not to concern yourself about.

You will notice that the signs of Leo and Aquarius, in your chart with Placidus houses, do not appear on any house cusp. The 9th House cusp is late Cancer, the 10th cusp the first degree of Virgo. Therefore, Leo is "intercepted" in the 9th House, Aquarius in the 3rd. There are never intercepted signs in the whole sign system because signs and houses are always congruent. Many astrologers tend to ignore or pooh-pooh intercepted signs (I think because they don't know what to do with them), but I find them very meaningful and informative. In your chart Saturn, Sun and Jupiter are all intercepted. The signs they occupy are "enclosed", "out of touch", shut-in", "obstructed" and such ideas. Intercepted planets (the psychic energies they each represent) are therefore rendered highly subjective, inturned, denied a ready channel for normal expression. Interception does not bring the world to an end or the sky crashing down on your head. I personally have an intercepted Moon and the effects are quite noticeable in my character and life. It is simply one of the conditions affecting the life which we accept and live with. It is there for a reason (included in your "design" by the Cosmic Engineer.)

As I said in the first post, you are young yet. What is going on in your life is that you are discovering who you are and what your life is turning out to be. And you think it is messed up. That is your problem. It isn't messed up; it is like it is supposed to be, and the challenge is to figure out how to adapt to that reality. This period of intensive self-discovery has about another 7 years to run, when Saturn will return to his natal position at 3 Aquarius for the first time in your life (called the Saturn Return). This is a time all of us go through, at about the age of 28. It is the "First Maturity." Reality tends to smack us up alongside the head about that time, and we wonder which truck ran over us. I got divorced and lost everything I had at the time of my first Saturn return; not fun. I also made some very bad choices about that time, choices that took a very long time to correct. I ain't very bright. But in about 10 days I turn 70, and guess what... Life is magic and beautiful and fun and wonderful. So take it easy, there's hope for you. Enjoy every day. How your life works out depends on you and you alone. You have to be realistic about yourself, but you really do create your own life through the imagination.

Later today I get to go over to the daughter's house and play with my grandkids. Maybe we'll bottle-feed some calves; they live on a dairy out in the middle of nowhere. I think the snow has gotten a little too icy for a good snowball fight. But it's all about love, and it don't get no better than that.

P.S.: You are not condemned by the stars. You just think you are. You are blessed with Life. Open your eyes and see the miracle. I have a friend who's 85 and dying of cancer now. The other day he came into a little restaurant where I was having coffee with some other friends, a big and very real smile all over his face. Old George knows how to do it.
 
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greybeard

Well-known member
Whole house is the oldest form of house structure and is accurate for my readings. Yes it can change things a lot. If you found my reading accurate then it rang true for you, if you didn't find it accurate then you should ignore it.

I also disagree w/ the above. I don't think you should live a solitary life. I think your life direction will push you into communicating with others and learning about many different things and getting tastes of many different things...friends and general causes are what will HELP fulfilling your life's purpose IMO...

When all of the planets below the horizon are Rx, you can pretty well count on a person who although they desire a family and its security, when they get the family they cannot stay. They find their liberty compromised, the responsibility smothering. They turn out to be solitary creatures, lone wolves.

Sun & Moon are not counted; they have no rx motion.
 
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