Madonna's Ascendant Isn't Virgo

savanna

Well-known member
@Savanna
I know the interview where she was claiming that she has Aquarius Rising.
But why does she say that she was born at night.
I don't get it.
07.00 pm , especially in August, is not night.
And the next thing is that there are websites that claim that 07.05 am is AA Rating quoted from birth chart.

Here is someone claiming that the birth certificate shows 0700 hr CDST.
(http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/460134.html)

The whole thing is just so complicated...

The AA rating came from AstroDatabank, but the rating is now DD.

Madonna was born in Michigan in 1958. Michigan birth certificates did not have birth times on them from 1950-1967 therefore Madonna's birth certificate would have no time on it.

The 7 am birth time comes from a woman who claims she spoke to Madonna's father on the phone in the 80's and that the 7 am birth chart was passed on to Madonna. Madonna's states in a 1996 and 1998 interview that she has Aquarius rising and moon in Virgo, this would be years after the 7 am chart was passed to her. That time is obviously not correct.

Also, I don't believe that tweet is real anyway.
 

theM

Well-known member
@Savanna
Like you said the tweet could be false.
I didn't know the thing with Michigan records.
That explains a lot.
But in the story I think they took it from hospital.
If not the civil registry offices kept the birth time on the birth certificates in those years, maybe only the hospitals did it on their records?
I don't know if we can exclude it. Can we?
I live in Europe and I just can say that the birth data (including birth time) are also collected in the archive of the hospital.

But I still don't know why Madonna should lie about her Ascendant.
Though reputedly she lied about her age and wrote 1959 in a letter.
 

savanna

Well-known member
theM,

I understand lying about your age/birth year. That is common for celebs. But lying about your ascendant would be quite odd to me. She didn't lie about her sun in Leo and moon in Virgo, so no reason to lie about ascendant.

Also re: the Michigan policy: "Office of State Registrar and Center for Health Statistics. Access restricted. Records kept from January 1, 1867; Detroit records from 1893. Time given from 1906-1949 and 1968-present; no times on birth records from 1950-67"



The hospital may have the time, but the am/pm could have been the other... who really knows about that first source as it seems suspicious to me. Madonna's source notes on the Databank are a mess with speculation and opinions. I'll just take Madonna's word on this. She has her chart done and I'm sure there is a time on it.
 

theM

Well-known member
@Savanna

One of the comments on the 90's interview:


  • Dita Marlene
    She got her signs wrong. She has a virgo rising just like her ex Warren Beatty. Probably got mixed up due to this interviewer being utterly ridiculous looking and overly flirtatious in a most disturbing way.
  • savannaloud
    Nope. It has nothing to do with the interviewer. She also said her rising sign is Aquarius in another interview with Johnny Vaughn. She wouldn't say Aqua rising and describe the sign, if she was Virgo rising. She says in this interview she had her chart done professionally, so she knows her birthtime, which would probably be after 7PM not AM.
  • Dita Marlene
    I read an interview back when she was with Beatty where she said they understood each other because they both had virgo rising signs which meant they were both perfectionists. Who knows? Maybe she switches them depending on her mood. Madonna likes to play ... Dosen't change the fact that this interviewer is annoying.
Are you Savannaloud? Then you know the conversation, of course.

Perhaps the interview that Dita Marlene talked about really exists...
Maybe Madonna thought at first that it was 7 am and then later she knew it better.
Because her relationship with Beatty was around 1990 and the interview was around 1996.
Or maybe she calculated her chart by 2 astrologers and one of them got the time wrong or maybe she like Aquarius rising better or or or...
Who knows?

I just can say that I am not very convinced by any source.
But if I should decide I think that now I would believe the 07.05 AM time because
1.Madonna reputedly gave contradictory statements so she seems not to be reliable.
2.Lois Rodden had given an AA Rating to the birth time.
3.In my mind Madonna looks a lot like Marlene Dietrich, Uma Thurman and Eva Padberg who also have Virgo rising.

But that's just my opinion...
 
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savanna

Well-known member
@theM

She says "my rising sign is Aquarius" in this 1998 interview also at around 7:30 - www.dailymotion.com/video/x9mtjv_interview-johnny-meets-madonna-2-3_music

The thing Dita Marlene was referring to was the Interview Magazine article: http://allaboutmadonna.com/madonna-interviews-articles/interview-june-1990

She says nothing about her rising sign in it, but she talks about astrology:

Has there been any astrological pattern to your love life? Do you tend to fall for one certain sign?
Fire signs. I married a Leo. A lot of people in my family are Leos. My mother had a lot of us in the same month. She kept getting pregnant at the same time every year. I had my chart done once. I remember only two things from it. One was that I should eat more cooked vegetables. The other was that I was going to meet an older man who was going to be a great influence on me. And then I met Warren Beatty.
 

theM

Well-known member
@theM

She says "my rising sign is Aquarius" in this 1998 interview also at around 7:30 - www.dailymotion.com/video/x9mtjv_interview-johnny-meets-madonna-2-3_music

The thing Dita Marlene was referring to was the Interview Magazine article: http://allaboutmadonna.com/madonna-interviews-articles/interview-june-1990

She says nothing about her rising sign in it, but she talks about astrology:

@savanna
That's really odd.Cause there she doesn't mention her rising sign.
Perhaps Dita Marlene mistook something...

Maybe you're right and she has Aquarius Rising.
It would be good if she would say the truth. :)
I would appreciate it and she also sounds sincere.
Still there's my feeling about her appearance and I wonder why Lois Rodden gave the AA Rating years ago because she was very accurate with that.
But that's only my opinion.I could be wrong in this case.
 
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savanna

Well-known member
I think it had an AA rating initially because the time from a supposed "quoted birth record". This data was from back in the late 80's before Astrodatabank was even established. Then the conflicting reports about her rising sign caused it to be changed to DD.

I also don't think Lois Rodden was very fond of Madonna. The Biography section for Madonna on ADB is very negative and biased - Lois Rodden wrote those biographies herself and was known to put her opinions in them.

As Madonna is an astrology fan (she has talked about it for years and very recently has talked about her belief in it), I will go with her word. :wink:
 

theM

Well-known member
@savannah

I totally understand you and there are reasons for both theories.
I actually always switch between them.
Sometimes there's a moment when I think she has Virgo Rising and then there comes the moment when I think: Hmm, or Aquarius Rising...

And if that tweet would be real, it just would make things even more complicated...

All we can do is probably wait and/or search for another sources.:happy:
 
M

may28gemini

Although I can see why she would be considered Virgo rising (pointy chin, slender face), I'm rather inclined to say she looks like what I would imagine an Aqua rising to look like- wild, wacky, eclectic, eccentric- esp. when she was young, I mean, come on! Look at how she dressed in the 80s mixing everything from high and low all in the same ensemble!! NO Virgo rising would EVER dare to be that "bizarre," much less flaunt it the way that Madonna did/does. The fact that she named her record label as Maverick is telltale of daring she is. A Virgo rising would try to be more mainstream and conventional no matter what, which is NOT how Madonna made her visual mark!
 

Vista

Well-known member
I don't think she is late Aqua rising. Sun is the 6th house is not fitting at all as it weakens the health placed here and she is very healthy. A strong, angular Sun in the 7th fits her much better. Also, Mars ruling her second house of earned income does not fit either but Neptune would. Mars has one hard aspect to Uranus which would show problems earning income with many ups and downs; she has amassed a fortune. Also, Mars in hard aspect to Uranus would show someone who is not good with money(saving) and would like to spend. She is known for being very cheap. If you move Neptune to the second house and Sun into the 7th, I think you have a much better fit here.

Here's a rectified chart I did. It's late Aqua rising which gives her Sun opp. AS (Barack Obama also has this aspect) and some other interesting aspects. She also has her Sun in the 6th house making her a hard worker.
showgif.cgi
 

savanna

Well-known member
Personally, I will stick to the old Virgo rising-theory
(Astrodatabank tells the story of her dad calling the hospital)
because Madonna probably doesn't know her real birth time.
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1mj1yl/amaa_ask_madonna_almost_anything/cc9pg4f

I got that link from Astrodatabank.

Besides she remembers me on Marlene Dietrich, Uma Thurman and Eva Padberg who all got Virgo Rising.

Yeah she probably does not know her time of birth.

It's not recorded on her birth certificate and who knows if that hospital calling story is correct.
 

codayvon1

New member
Would a Uranian chart analysis be more diagnostic?

I'm no expert in that area, but I find that Uranian astrology is much more specific.
 

theM

Well-known member
Yes, unfortunately we don't know for sure.
But at least that story could be correct.
It's true that Michigan didn't record the birth time on the certificate
during the year Madonna was born.(Astro-Databank: Data collector's handbook)
But I would guess that the hospital did as hospitals record a lot of details
and facts of a birth/the newborn baby. :wink:
Plus for me personally the chart fits her.
 

Arena

Well-known member
Madonna does behave like a Queen - fitting Leo rising.
She also has the rebellious and weird look of Uranus.
Fits with Kannons findings... but would you not think that her mother's death would be clearly indicated in her chart? Would that be a point worth looking for as indicator of ASC? I believe there must be a strong indication of 8th house or 12th house connection to either the Moon or the ruler of the mother (some say that is the 4th house some say it is the 10th house).

I think that if she had Saturn in her 10th house or anywhere close to her MC, then we would see restricted career as Saturn is the ruler of restrictions and difficulties.IT is also more of a manager type than singer rock star type. Having Taurus in 10th house can indicate a singer/strong voice and a long lasting career with good money.
 

WeCareALot

Well-known member
I believe that Madonna is an Aquarius rising which would support the 7PM birth time. That would put Saturn in her 10th house and give her a heavy 7th house influence. While it's true that Saturn tends to restrict what he touches, he also grants massive rewards when people put in the work. And when you look at Madonna's career, you can see she truly busted her a$$ from the bottom to get where she is today. She basically moved to New York from Nowhere, Michigan and became a popstar in a span of 2-3 years and has steadily built her career up since 1983. I see that as more of a Saturn in the 10th influence than Saturn in 4th, which she would have if her birth time were in the morning. Also, a lot of critics have made a big deal of Madonna using other people to accomplish her goals, whether that be songwriters, directors, or designers whose talents she can use to give her "cred" or simply employ. That sounds more like a 7th house trait than a strong 1st/12th house trait. Not to mention the fact that she's talked about often fearing being alone in life--another 7th house thing to say.
 
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savanna

Well-known member
I believe that Madonna is an Aquarius rising which would support the 7PM birth time. That would put Saturn in her 10th house and give her a heavy 7th house influence. While it's true that Saturn tends to restrict what he touches, he also grants massive rewards when people put in the work. And when you look at Madonna's career, you can see she truly busted her a$$ from the bottom to get where she is today. She basically moved to New York from Nowhere, Michigan and became a popstar in a span of 2-3 years and has steadily built her career up since 1983. I see that as more of a Saturn in the 10th influence than Saturn in 4th, which she would have if her birth time were in the morning. Also, a lot of critics have made a big deal of Madonna using other people to accomplish her goals, whether that be songwriters, directors, or designers whose talents she can use to give her "cred" or simply employ. That sounds more like a 7th house trait than a strong 1st/12th house trait. Not to mention the fact that she's talked about often fearing being alone in life--another 7th house thing to say.

I agree, I think Saturn in the 10th has given her the longevity she has in her career.

Michael Jackson has Sag MC conjunct Saturn and Whitney Houston has Sag MC as well and they were Madonna's contemporaries in the 80's and 90's.

She also slightly reminds me of Barack Obama (Leo Sun/Aqu rising) in her ability of speaking to a crowd and getting the public excited about her ideas.
 

earths

Member
I always thought it was accepted that she has Aquarius ASC, she actually said it on a TV programme, because she was very keen on astrology.
 

savanna

Well-known member
I always thought it was accepted that she has Aquarius ASC, she actually said it on a TV programme, because she was very keen on astrology.

That was before she stated recently that she does not know her ascendant because she does not know her birth time. She feels, according to her, that she is "50% Leo and 50% Virgo". Maybe her rising sign is Virgo or Leo. We will probably never know for sure.
 
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