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  #1  
Unread 11-27-2006, 09:05 AM
Draco Draco is offline
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Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

"Litvinenko died at the University College London at 9:21 p.m. (2121 GMT) ..., " a spokesman for the hospital said, reading a statement.

"He was seriously ill when he was admitted to UCH on Friday November 17 and the medical team at the hospital said it did everything possible to save his life," he said.

The critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin had said he fell ill after meeting two Russians at a hotel. He had been investigating the killing of Russian journalist Anna Politkovskaya, also a vocal critic of Putin, who was gunned down at her Moscow flat on October 7.

Britain's anti-terrorism police were called in to investigate the case after doctors determined last week his illness was caused by poison.

Litvinenko's friends accuse the Kremlin of orchestrating a plot to poison him, but Russia has dismissed the allegation as "nonsense."

Source:

http://webcenters.netscape.compuserv...2.htm&sc=rontz http://webcenters.netscape.compuserv...2.htm&sc=rontz

Here is the event chart for the death of Litvinenko:



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Unread 11-27-2006, 10:26 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Draco, I am very interesting in this "thing" and I would like to hear what can you say about this chart.
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Unread 11-27-2006, 10:43 PM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Yes I would love to hear ideas on this too Draco. I'm just stretching since this is a death chart but 7th house is also open enemies. Neptune the ruler of the 8th house is in 7th house although open enemies it's Neptune. Does that play a role or do you only look at the specific houses of health and death on this chart or is the ruler of the asc represented by the person that died etc? Would love to know how to read these type of charts. Thanks
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Unread 11-28-2006, 12:18 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

I'd like to take a shot!

If he is the Asc, then Saturn being in the first house is very appropriate. Saturn is limiation and there's not much more limiting you can get than to be dead. The chart ruler - the Sun - is located in the fourth house, which is circumstances at the end of life, showing that this person is dead or dying, which we know is true. Mars in Scorpio could denote a vengence being acted out, or, more likely, it could simply show the poisioning of the man, as Scorpio is a poisonous sign, which I believe was brought up somewhere else on the forum.

The eighth house ruler is Neptune, which is also associated with poison and illness, I think it's important to also note that Pisces is also on the cusp of the ninth house, making it seem as if he were killed for political reasons, which seems most appropriate as well as I can't think of many other reasons why a spy would be killed. Neptune in Aquarius would constitute poisoning by air, but since I'm not very much aware as to the nature of the incident, I'm going to assume this incorrect and assume he was killed by poisoned food, which is the most common kind. While I'm on the subject of Neptune, I'd like to inquire as to its position in the seventh house. Would that mean deceit by a partner leading to his death? I think it sounds appropriate considering the thing with Mars in Scorpio possibly being a sign of vengence.

Last stop, the twelfth house ruler is the Moon, which is loosely conjunct the sixth house cusp. The twelfth is unknown enemies, I'm assuming that he was poisoned by an unknown enemy, which would be interesting seeing as how it conjuncts the house of work and health, which the unknown enemy seems to have poisoned.
However, I'm not going to say that and not make a case for the other side, which would be the known enemy. Neptune in this house would probably be a very good sign, especially since it is in mutual reception with the ruler of this house, being Uranus in Pisces. Would this sequence of placements be enough to make it a known enemy?

That's all I have to say about it...I hope I don't sound too incompetent...
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Last edited by Kaiousei no Senshi; 11-28-2006 at 12:29 AM.
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Unread 11-28-2006, 12:29 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Kai I thought that was good myself lol but what do I know

But when you said possibly by someone he knows or a partner it made me think back to what I saw on the news that the last time he was seen was at a diner with another spy friend who was telling him he was on a hit list, perhaps not truly a friend huh? Maybe his friend slipped him poision then? Neptune in the house of open enemies with Neptune being so deceptive anyway, maybe he was being decieved as to who the open enemy was so like you say really an unknown enemy his friend he met? lol Now I'm reaching I know
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Unread 11-28-2006, 03:55 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Libra is on the 4th house cusp which represents the end of it all. Venus, the ruler of libra, is in the 5th house of friends. Why, ahoy Spock, I think we are on to something! L.
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Unread 11-28-2006, 05:09 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

I'm finding this interesting okay here is a time line wish we had his birthday

Oct 7 Anna Politkovskaya, a journalist critical of the Russian government and its war in Chechnya, shot dead in Moscow. Mr Litvinenko begins investigation amid claims she was killed because of her writings.

Nov 1 Mr Litvinenko meets two Russians at London hotel, at least one a former KGB officer. On same day he has lunch with Mario Scaramella, an Italian academic, at Itsu sushi bar in Piccadilly, where it is claimed he received secret documents. Complains of feeling sick and admitted to hospital.

Nov 17 Condition worsens.

Nov 19 It's claimed he was poisoned with thallium.

Nov 20 Moved to intensive care. The Kremlin calls allegations of government involvement "sheer nonsense".

Nov 21 Leading toxicologist says Mr Litvinenko may have been poisoned with "radioactive thallium".

Nov 22 Mr Litvinenko "critically ill". The SVR, Russia's foreign intelligence service, denies involvement.

Nov 23 Suffers heart attack. Military scientists at Porton Down, confirm that he has been poisoned by polonium-210. At 9.21pm he dies in intensive care.

Nov 24 Vladimir Putin says he saw no "definitive proof" that it was a "violent death".

In a statement written before his death, Mr Litvinenko accuses Mr Putin of being responsible. Police find traces of radioactive material at the sushi bar and the hotel where the former spy had meetings on Nov 1, and at his north London home.

Nov 27 It's announced the inquest will open on Thursday. Three people linked to the sites Mr Litvinenko visited on Nov 1 are referred to a clinic for radiological tests, after reporting radiation symptoms.

So Uranus would rule radiation yes? Now is there a way from this chart to find out if he was poisoned at the hotel or the sushi bar? I'm not sure what Polonium-210 is that the radioactive thallium? So still ruled by Uranus if so right?
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Unread 11-28-2006, 05:10 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

I'm just wondering with Uranus in the 8th house in Pisces could the radiocative thallium been administered at the sushi bar being it is a fishy place
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Unread 11-28-2006, 05:45 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

OOOh, this is getting good! It's too bad that it will probally be a long time before we know something for sure. L.
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Unread 11-28-2006, 08:26 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Quote:
I'm just wondering with Uranus in the 8th house in Pisces could the radiocative thallium been administered at the sushi bar being it is a fishy place
This a very good point. You know, Polonium 210 is in fact extracted from Uranium ore. I've had a quick look at Futurists horary, and I thought that the sushi bar is probably where the poison was adminsitered because of this.
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Unread 11-28-2006, 01:18 PM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Interesting about the Polonium Draco

Okay bear with me but I have a kooky theory and not sure how to either find validation for it or discredit it through this chart here.

It says on Nov 1st he had those two meetings and got sick right away, did he get put in the hospital right away?

The reason I ask is they said they found radioactive material at the hotel, the sushi bar and his home.

So I would want to know did he go to the hotel after or before the sushi bar and did he ever go home after that or straight to the hospital?

I ask because the only common thread between all three places is Litvinenko. Not these other people. So say he left home, went to the hotel, then the sushi bar then the hospital, we presume he was poisoned at the hotel or sushi bar so then how did the radiation get in his home. Again this is me presuming he never went home.

Then my suspicious mercury in the 8th house says well why is it that this made front page news? There must be spies, former spies etc that die all the time in such ways and we never hear about it. But the headlines, the photographs.. I started wondering if he killed himself but used a friends help. Not sure if I am explaining what's twirling around my noggin very well. But meaning he told a friend this is what he is going to do and he needed their help to insure it got to the presses, the police, etc to get the news out.

That way he could insure he put a big huge uncomfortable spotlight on Putin and the Kremlin. I know in this case to kill yourself in the name of getting an injustice out there to be seen would be a very martyr time thing to do so Pisces right. But how else would a theory like that show that way I could say yah or nay to that idea lol

I just read in this mornings news more areas of radioactive goober were found. 7 Down ST and 25 Grosvenor.. they said one of those belongs to his friend Boris Berezovsky .. whose a tycoon.. maybe this is the friend that helped him?
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Unread 11-28-2006, 02:28 PM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

I missed the loose Grand Trine in the Water signs with Mercury/Uranus/PoF. Mercury is associated with thieves, and thieves are like spies. I find this even more interesting that Mercury is in Scorpio, which is a spy-like sign and a poisonous one as well. So, would Mercury be the criminal and the person who poisoned him? The seperating Trine between Mercury and Uranus would show the completion of the radiaton based poisoning, correct? I also think it's interesting that the Part of Fortune factors in, would this show the success of the act?

Another thing, would the Uranus/Neptune mutual reception be a key significator of the type of poison? If Neptune is related to illness, bacteria, and poison, and Uranus is the signifcator of the radiation (being the type is derived from the enrichment of Uranium ore), them being in such a strong connection to each other is kind of a creepy coincidence.

Also, one thing I noticed when I was typing this, Mercury rules Gemini and Gemini is on the eleventh house cusp. Being under the impression that Mercury is the person who poisoned him, would this be enough to signify the criminal as a friend or aquantience?
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Unread 11-28-2006, 04:13 PM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Interesting Kai I didn't notice the grand trine with POF in the house of friendship, but again that makes me wonder about him really killing himself to get attention onto the Kremlin. Perhaps his Baron friend the one they also found radiation at his house gave him the thallium. POF in the 11th grand trining that mercury and uranus.. and maybe Neptune in the 7th ruling the 8th is deception and confusion over who the real open enemy is?
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Unread 11-28-2006, 07:18 PM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Oooh...or how about the applying Trine of Saturn/Pluto? Considering Pluto rules Scorpio, I think this is significant. Also - I don't know if this counts or not - there's another Grand Trine between Saturn/Pluto/MC. I think that's interesting. However it seems to pull the theory away from him killing himself. I don't exactly know what this Grand Trine would mean, since Pluto is about transformation...however, I guess there's not too much more of a career related transformation than death. But, like I said, I don't even know if this particular Grand Trine counts. Draco? Anyone?
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Unread 11-28-2006, 09:21 PM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Not sure Kai this is stretching my area of what I know about astrology too but I am having fun with this chart (forgive me mister Litvinenko) but that's what I have been trying to figure out is there a way to disprove my idea about perhaps he did it with a help of friend to get lots of media attention on the Kremlin. I have no idea if he went back home after the sushi place and the hotel, if so that would explain the radiation there. I mean that trine could very well have a place Kai I mean this death is presumably around his job and his knowledge that he was carrying. So maybe Pluto in the 5th in Sag that's part of that grand trine with the MC is say doing something as Lilly said recreation the going out to eat and the hotel is 5th, pluto is in sag so that's foriegners right meeting that ex kgb guy and what not..mc related to his line of work yes.. saturn is what.. saturn and pluto the death in regards to his career mc? dunno I am learning on this myself u are doing good though
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Unread 11-28-2006, 11:36 PM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Okay Litvinenko said before he died that Putin was responsible for his death. I was looking at Putins chart http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/PutinVladimir.htm

I notice that transiting pluto is conjunct his mars maybe made him ruthless and able to order out the kill?

But if you see his Pluto MC and SN conjunction is in Leo Saturn has been playing with that and I think with Saturn going rx in Dec he might be held accountable for that?
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Unread 11-29-2006, 12:19 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

After having VenusInAries explain to me what was all going on and who/what everything was, something clicked!

Pisces rules both the ninth and the eigth. The spy's death and a religious or political organization. Well, now that I'm informed as to what the Kremlin is (yeah, you don't have to tell me... -.-') I was wondering if maybe the Kremlin was indeed responsible. This showing that some organization and the cause for his death are to be very very closely associated. Being also in the house of Mr. Litvienko's known enemies, I'm going to assume that he knew of the Kremlin. After all, besides a loose conjunct with the Moon (ruler of the twelfth) with the sixth house cusp, there's not much going for the unknown enemies side of the field.

With this evidence, I'm ready to give my conclusion that the Kremlin was indeed responsible for Mr. Litvienko's death. However, if someone else has anything else to say, please offer, I'm very much prepared to change my position on light of other evidence.

P.S. Sorry to steal this thread from you, Draco! Event/Electional astrology fascinates me! I couldn't resist!
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Unread 11-29-2006, 06:27 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Here are my thoughts about this chart.
First of all, if we want to know what was, we mast look at sepparate aspects, because separate aspects show past events.
So what we have here? Chart is very descriptive. Ruler of first, Litvinenko, is Sun in 4 house, end of matter, life, in Sag. This can "translate" as men from foreigne country(Sag) die, or men die in foreigner country. Then, ruler of 8 house (deth), Ju is in 4 house, end of matter, Su separate form Ju, men is already dead!
Because this is all about spy I expect to see some "spy" aspect and I found one very important. In this chart, Ne conjuct antiscion of Me. (Antiscion=alternative placement) So, what we have now? Ne(poison)+Me(two people) in Aq (Russia) all in 7 house, open enemy. So, 2 Russian people bring poison. As we see from chart, Me separate from U(radioactive) in 8 house so Russian "free" from it and direct involed in Livinenko's death (Me is in 4 house Ur in 8 house, both about death). It is interesting that Me is ruler of 2 and 11 house, so definately Litvinenko took it by food (2house) but not purposely (there is no connection with Su) but perchance (ruler of 11 house).Fathermore ruler of 10 house(goverment) is in 4 house too, in very strong position, but intercepted, so I got impression that goverment(English) is involved in his death too, althought noone suspecct on them.
About that Italian, he is represented with Sa in Leo=Italy, he hates him(Litvinenko)(his ruler in detriment and fall of Su) but he is in no connection with Ur, so I think he is not "killer".
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Unread 11-29-2006, 09:52 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Venus in Aries, Litvinenko did go home - he didn't admit himself to Barnet General Hospital for days, then he was transferred to University College Hosp. Your assessment that he may have done it himself was prescient, as that is a major line of enquiry that is being followed up. However, looking at this again and in view of what I posted on the other thread going on this topic. I reckon Igor did it and he is, as they expect in Italy. Here's why...

Bearing in in mind this isn't a horary chart but an event chart so I am using this chart symbolically. Asc ruler Sun = Litvineko. Moon in Cap ruler of 12th = killer. Moon is seperated from sun by 36 degrees. If it was 23 that would be perfect as it is 23 days since he was poisioned but potentially Litvinenko met with his killer 36 days ago. Perhaps they met again or he gave him something then that wasn't ingested until the 1st. Moon is in Cap ruled by Saturn. This rules 7th so confirms his enemy of Lit and that he is an open suspect and is in the 1st in Lit's sign connecting the two again.

The sign of Leo is conected to Italy, Saturn describes the killer and lilly gives it as : a dark swarthy person either bowlegged or hits one knee against another. One full of revenge and malice, a brawling fellow.

Igor has a limp is a judo expert and a trained assassin. I believe some articles have even described him as swarthy

Igor 'dunnit'

Kx
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Unread 11-29-2006, 06:24 PM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Wouldn't the weak Moon in its detriment swing it the other way? Or does it have no effect at all, and why not if so?
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Unread 11-30-2006, 08:44 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Hello all!

I've just saw this subject today and I hope you guys don't mind if I try myself to interpretate. ( Excuse if there is any repetation in my explination )

Here it goes!

Other's would see this as a different aproach of astrology, if you look at MC it's ruled by Mars. MC reprezents the one's destiny, and it's a great indicator of the path and what the persons encouters in his life. Mars ruler of 10th in 4th ( house of ending ) conjuncts fixed star Unukalhai, which this means his destiny ( MC ruler ) meets the end by quarells, lies, trouble and death by others hand, expecialy if poison is involved.

The question is, who killed him?
The 8th house, house of death where Uranus is curently positioned, reprezents something of radiation. In all charts, interceptated signs are a strong indicators of something fishy going on ( as VenusInAries said ). The sign is Pisces which hosts both 8th and 9th cusps, which thier ruler is in 7th house. This shows the one who did it he knew very well, open enemy, posible a political/social/vocational partener. 7th cusp is in Aquarius, which shows Russia, so the Russians he knew were involved as well.

As we look further, we can see that the Moon shows a lot, bieng a trigger planet ( like a guy that pushes a button an triggers an event ), bieng also the planet that reprezents roots, can show the cause. I downloaded the datas into my software, and I saw Vertex conjuncts Moon which shows cause-and-effect. Bieng in 5th house, it shows that was caused while bieng in a place of relaxation whit someone to gossip and talk ( or speculate ), this place of relaxation can be a hotel, a restaurant, a bar ( Moon shows food ). Moon conjuncting Vertex translates this conjunction further, making a stelium whit Pluto ( in medicine, Pluto is reprezentated by pluttonium ). The poison was administrated in the sushi bar and the ones who joined him in the metting were involved in this killing.

Looking further for the ones who did it, I have found some powerfull indicators.

The first one is that POF shows something, it's not put there for nothing in 11th house ( POF disposes Moon and opposes it ), bieng formed by ASC+Moon-Sun ( ASC=future; Sun= Present; Moon= Past/ or cause ). POF opposes Moon and Vertex, and conjuncts Anti-Vertex. Anti-Vertex is the point that reprezents the emisive energies, we could translate this as bieng the point of administration of the poison, while Vertex reprezent the reception ( Moon is even more receptive, Pluto near which reprezents pluttonium ). As conclusion to the POF, Anti-Vertex and Vertex making aspects whit Moon, we could say again that the person involved in the poisoning was a friend, someone he knew, trusted and joined him at the sushi bar. ( Sorry for adding asteroids, but the Uranian Hades is in 11th house 26gem06 Rx, which involves a friend whit dark, secretive tendicies, Hades reprezents death by poison )

The second one which is quite strange, involves another person besides the one who joined Litvinenko at bar. South node disposes ruler Mercury. Their distance is about 50 degree, which is the septile aspect of 51.428571 ( orb 2.5, which works in our chart ). The symbolistic about the septile is atribuited to Sun/Leo, which reprezents a leader, bieng in 4th house, the natal country or the country he spended his time the most... Russia? Leader? Putin involved? shows a lot... considering the sun conjuncts Jupiter ( in scorpio gives luck and protection to hidden, dark, secretive, dirty involment to Litvinenko's death ). Also I said about Pisces interpretation, Neptune ( in 7th ) reprezents someone whit collective influence, someone who affects the population. Neptune tends to show collectiviness, while Uranus shows individual ( someone that was commanded by someone whit power and high political influence... Kremlin and Putin? )

I calculated the Part of Death which is positionated at 6' libra where Lilith is very near, dark truth about the death, in libra is about the ones Litvinenko knew.

After these methods, I would say Kremlin was involved, which supports Kaiousei no Senshi's debate and results. I would say there are even more persons involved and still yet not shown, like Vladimir Putin.

Igor is not excluded from this subject, so he is a good suspect as well since 12th house is ruled by Moon which is strongly connected to Litvinenko's death.

By the way... The part of assassination ( Yang ) is Mars + Neptune - Uranus is in 27 libra 4th house, still showing the ones that Litvinenko knew were more involved than the hidden and unknown persons.

I typed fast ... sorry for any spelling errors.
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Unread 11-30-2006, 10:04 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiousei no Senshi
Wouldn't the weak Moon in its detriment swing it the other way? Or does it have no effect at all, and why not if so?

Hi,

Well firstly I wasn't using strict rules associated with horary interps here. It's an event chart so I was just using symbolism but if one wants to apply horary rules, I don't think moon in detriment necessarily swings things the other way Rather the Moon in detriment would, I believe, indicate that the killer i.e 12th ruler Moon is not in a strong position. This would hold true as 'Igor' is a known suspect.

This is really draco's thread and area - what do you say D?

warm regards

Kx
Betelgeuse - I really enjoyed your interp.
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Unread 11-30-2006, 06:44 PM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

Two comments and then I'll leave this up to Draco.

First, thanks to a link Tikana provided me with one night, it led to a story on British airplanes being found to have radiation. I found the story today in the local newspaper.
It seems these two planes were Britian-bound from Russia, suggesting the poison did indeed come from Russia (Ruler of the eigth and ninth in the seventh). Mars Trining the Ninth house cusp, would that be violence from afar?
Second, he met Mario Scaramella just before he became ill, but Mario was cleared of radiation via testing. A newspaper has claimed that Scaramella used this meeting to pass secret document. I get a large PoF in the eleventh factoring in with the Grand Trine with Mercury and Uranus vibe from this. Adding to it that Mario Scaramella is now currently in Italy (being Italian, that's usually where we find them) agreeing with what Futurist said about Saturn in Leo being significant of Italy. Perhaps this is our man?

Your turn Draco! I swear! I'm done...for now.
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Unread 05-23-2007, 06:49 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

"The UK's director of public prosecutions has recommended Mr Lugovoi (Russian) be extradited for the "grave crime" of murder by poisoning of Mr Litvinenko. "(BBC news)
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Unread 05-31-2007, 11:52 AM
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Re: Mortal Chart of Alexander Litvinenko.

The astrocartography of this chart is interesting.

Three nationalities are tied together in the Litvinenko case, a poisoning taking place in England, of a Russian in a Japanese restaurant.

In the event chart for Litvinenko's death, there is no ACG line significantly close to London, but both Moscow and Tokyo have Uranus angular, making Russian and Japanese things, resonate to the same Uranian frequency.

I imagine that in other charts pertaining to the chain of events leading up to his death, there will have been ACG lines running through London at significant moments, and making further connections with Moscow and Tokyo.

The poison that killed Litvinenko was Polonium 210, a Uranium extract. The fact that the poison was said to have been administered in a sushi bar would seem to make Uranus in Pisces a natural significator of the poisoning. Uranus is in the eighth, and is disposited by Jupiter which rules the eighth.

In the ACG, the Uranus/DC line goes straight through Moscow. The descendant is open enemies and opponents, and Livinenko knew that he had enemies, which is why he sought asylum in London.

The Uranus/IC line runs straight through Tokyo, and is crossed above Tokyo by the Jupiter/AC line.

The IC is the place of the grave and the end of matters, Uranus in Pisces is the polomium in the sushi bar. Jupiter is associated with fish via it's rulership of Pisces, and it rules the eighth house of death and the ninth of foreign lands, and is the dispositor of Uranus.

This makes me wonder about Litvinenko's natal chart and significant charts stemming from it, and where it might be shown that places in which the Russian merges with the Japanese may have been dangerous for him.

Note that both the poisoner (Uranus/DC) and the poison itself (Uranus/IC) move unseen, in keeping with the covert nature of the invisible planet Uranus orbiting beyond the veil of Saturn.
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