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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #51  
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post



I made the following image to illustrate this cosmos.
At the center lies the moistening Earth
around which the sphere of the zodiac
and the seven spheres carrying the seven stars
revolve in circular and uniform motion.

According to the opinion of some
this movement is concentric (Eudoxus, Aristotle, the Moors),
according to Ptolemy and others it is uniform and eccentric.





[/QUOTE]

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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

*

Published under Open Access, literally days ago
MARTIN GANSTEN

'A Note on the Indian Planetary Exaltations and their Greek-Language Sources'.
https://journals.library.ualberta.ca...rticle/view/66


.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

.





Quote:
One question for clarification:

You said “Operative is angular or succedent (post-ascending)”
. Do you mean Operative is succedent?

Since Ascending here already means angular?


Operative (chrematistikos) in the Hellenistic tradition referred to both the angular and succedent places. In the sample, this would basically mean I gave two points for an angular Light, 1 for succedent and 0 for cadent. This is generally how it is treated traditionally, although there is some slight ambiguity to how operative are the succedents compared to the angles, whether it is a 50% strength, something like 66% or the like. Generally though, they are treated as operative along with the angles, while the cadents are noted as completely useless. So it may have been just a two-grade consideration, and it actually sometimes feels that way.

Note that the operative places according to some authors are different. These authors think that the 2nd and 8th place are worse than the 9th because of no aspect, but I disagree.

Quote:
Lastly, you said the Master of the Nativity holds great powers in the Egyptian tradition. Could you recommend some sources so I can look into this? Thank you.
Quote:
Petosiris seems to have defined the place perfectly, even though he spoke in mystic riddles: “The beginning, the end, the controller, and the measurement standard of the whole is the houseruling star of each nativity: it makes clear what kind of person the native will be, what kind of basis his livelihood will have, what his character will be, what sort of body <=health and appearance> he will have, and all the things that will accompany him in life. Without this star nothing, neither occupation nor rank, will come to anyone.”
Valens later disagrees, saying ''But, how is it possible for a nativity to succeed in everything or, on the other hand, to fail in everything, depending just on the houserulership of just one star?'' - Valens, V. Anthologia. Translated by Mark Riley. - https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf - page 54

Valens quotes Nechepso and Petosiris frequently, in two places they referred to the Lot of Fortune as place (the Lots were associated with whole signs/houses) from which ''the whole can be seen'' - ruling place, powerful and controlling.





.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

.


https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...767#post920767


Mercury onto SATURN favorably placed increase reputation

and bring acquisition,
harm enemies, provide benefits from ancient unions, trade and matters.
When unfavorably placed, they indicate lawsuits, unemployment,
debt, harm from friends, servants and treachery.


.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

.


To determine whether
SATURN SOLE DOMICILE OF AQUARIUS
is
a PRIMARY RULER of a chart
or not
Hellenistic astrologers have a number of primary rulers
all of which have different functions
The first probably most important
is the PREDOMINATOR of a chart.
The predominator of a chart
is the luminary of time
sun by day or moon by night
PROVIDED IS NOT CADENT

If sun is cadent in a Day chart then moon is predominator.
If moon is cadent in a Night chart then sun is predominator.

If both luminaries are cadent
i.e.
if both Sun and Moon are
then
ascendant is the predominator.


If the domicile ruler of the ascendant is also cadent
use the Lot of Fortune.
Some find that:
The cadent luminary can still be predominator
IF it is in his/her own house of Joy
i.e.
Sun is in 9th
or
Moon is in 3rd.

The predominator = planet that represents the life of the native.
The trigon aka triplicity lords of the predominator
tell use the thirds of life of the native
i.e.
first trigon lord = first part of life
second trigon lord = second part of life
and
third trigon lord = third part of life.
Once the predominator has been determined
then proceed
to determine the OIKODESPOTES of the natal chart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post




It survives in a summary of Balbilus and is also mentioned by Valens as a popular method along with decennials. The principle is the same as decennials, only the times are different.
You start with the predominator,
and then allot years as many as the minor recurrence years
of the planets in zodiacal order

(sun - 19,
moon - 25,
saturn - 30,
jupiter - 12,
mars - 15,
venus - 8
and
mercury - 20).

The difference between this and the 129 year method is that
if the stars should not be upon the degrees of their exaltations,
it will be necessary to
substract as many days as there are years, by sign, as many months.

One can further divide each time into 129 parts as many times as necessary.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS




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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

*
...




......
Quote:
Originally Posted by oddity View Post


saturn is the furthest traditional planet from the sun.

.....the sun rules leo.

saturn rules aquarius because it's furthest from the sun,
and
the coldest planet.
aquarius is rigid, cold, dogmatic, impersonal
- that seems to fit saturnian energy pretty well.

saturn diametrically opposes the sun,
which also makes sense here.
that's the actual why in trad astrology.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

*

To determine whether
SATURN SOLE DOMICILE OF AQUARIUS
is OIKODESPOTES OF A NATAL CHART
keep in mind that

the term oikodespotes aka DOMICILE MASTER
is used for domicile master/ruler of signs

for example
Mars is oikodespotes of Aries
and
Venus is oikodespotes of Taurus.
because
Mars
and
Venus
claim those signs as their dwelling place.



There is also an
oikodespotes aka DOMICILE MASTER of the whole chart itself

To determine this
first determine the predominator in a nativity.
then
The domicile ruler of the predominator's sign

is the domicile master aka OIKODESPOTES of the chart
i.e. the OIKODESPOSTES is the planet claiming the whole chart
as their dwelling place
The domicile master is the one who sets the agenda/policy in native's life.
The bound aka TERM ruler of the predominator = the oversight

i.e.
the one who sets the restriction over the domicile master
aka oikodespotes of the chart.
In chart delieneation

the domicile master of the predominator aka oikodespotes
preferably is in aspect with the predominator
and
the bound ruler of the predominator

preferably is in aspect or configured to the domicile master
aka oikodespotes of the chart.
Also important whether these planets are 'favorable' to the native.




.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

*


next planet equally important in overall rulership of a nativity
besides Oikodespotes
aka domicile master of the chart
is
KURIOS aka Lord of the nativity.

Kurios is the executor of the agenda
that Oikodespotes aka domicile master holds.

Determination of whether

SATURN SOLE DOMICILA RULER OF AQUARIUS may be Kurios
is determined from the following candidates

1. Ascendant sign.

Establish whether any planet(s) are in the Ascendant sign
AND bounds of the ascending degree.

2. Domicile Lord of Ascendant.

3. Moon and its Domicile Lord

4. Tenth sign from ascendant and its Domicile Lord

5. Lot of Fortune and its Domicile Lord.

6. Any planets that make phasis in the chart.

include planets that make a first or second station seven days

before
or
after

nativity.

7. The bound lord of the pre-natal lunation.


Kurios aka The Lord of the nativity
is determined using the above hierarchy
AND
is also fit to conduct its business




.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

*


Traditionally


Quote:
Originally Posted by rahu View Post

Saturn rules Aquarius because in ancient times

Saturn was the boundary between the real world
and the world of spirits.
Saturn was the only planet with rings
and these rings gave Saturn a portal to the higher realms.
For this reason Saturn ruled all forms of magic
and ruled the transition from mortal to immortal life.

The ring system was described as "the ring pass, not pass "
dividing line between the spirit world and the real world.
As such the attributes we give Aquarius
were in the domain of Saturn.

Saturn is the adept, those who know how to manipulate the
highest planes of existence.
rahu
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahu View Post

As I said, Saturn was historically
the boundary between the mundane world
and the world of spirits.


.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

*

HOROI Project
recently launched translation series
designed bringing out all previously untranslated Hellenistic
and Byzantine
astrological sources.
although many texts
have been translated by Robert Schmidt, James H. Holden, Eduardo Gramaglia
and others
there are still works, excerpts, chapters
and
fragments
originally written in or translated to Greek
that are virtually unknown.
What is more, the vast majority of these texts
have never been adequately studied
even by specialists
due to the simple fact
that no one has bothered to read, transcribe, edit
and publish them
– they are still latent in manuscripts, waiting for being discovered.
my translations don’t and won’t appear as printed books or booklets

but are accessible as online releases.
In the present initial phase,
you can find them on www.patreon.com/horoiproject
but later the translations will be transferred to their dedicated website,
where they’ll be organized in a more convenient form.
I also provide freely accessible translations
for those who just take interest.

The project’s Chief Advisor is Chris Brennan
and the current members of the advisory board
are Steven Birchfield and Dr. Martin Gansten.

What you can find right now :

texts from “Rhetorius,” Teucer of Babylon
the court astrologer of the Byzantine emperor Leo VI the Wise
Julianus of Laodicea
and an ongoing series
that will cover the entire
Discourses with Abū Maʿshar on the Secrets of Astrology
written by his pupil, Abū Saʿīd Shādhān. project website
Levente

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10953

.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

Quote:

1. The gods send signs to all nations, but they are not interpret the same for the different lands,
for one they signify hot weather, for another they signify cold weather,
and for third they signify temperate weather.

2. In the same way, the like-principles of rising times and daylight
become less discernible and causative in the equatorial zones.

3. Therefore another celestial influence is causative for nativities,
rather than the terrestrial effect of weather.
Otherwise, there would be no domicile, no exaltation
and no depression for the equatorial lands.

4. The rationale of the sidereal zodiac is compatible with this hypothesis
the rationale of the tropical zodiac is not.






.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Saturn is sometimes about old matters, tradition, black magic
and superstition.

'....Therefore, the nature of Saturn is cold, dry, melancholic, dark, of heavy harshness.
And perhaps he will be cold [and] moist, heavy, of stinking odor
and he is of much eating and true esteem.
And he signifies works of moisture and the cultivation of land
and peasants,
and village companions, and the settlement of lands...'
Benjamin Dykes translation of Abu Mashars GREAT INTRODUCTION
h http://theastrologypodcast.com/2019/...enjamin-dykes/

'...SATURN signifies magicians and masters of discord
and low-class men and eunuchs. And he signifies a great length of thought
and a scarcity of speaking and the knowledge of secrets
and one does not know what is in his mind
nor does a wise person make disclosures to him
about every obscure matter.
And he signifies austerity and the ascetics of religions....'
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Let me read some significations of Saturn when controlling the soul

according to Ptolemy:

Quote:
but if his position is the opposite and without dignity, he makes them sordid, petty, mean-spirited, indifferent, mean-minded, malignant, cowardly, diffident, evil-speakers, solitary, tearful, shameless, superstitious, fond of toil, unfeeling, devisers of plots against their friends, gloomy, taking no care of the body.
Quote:
Saturn, allied with Jupiter... superstitious, frequenters of shrines
Quote:
Allied with Venus in honourable positions Saturn makes his subjects haters of women, lovers of antiquity, solitary, unpleasant to meet, unambitious, hating the beautiful, envious, stern in social relations, not companionable, of fixed opinions, prophetic, given to the practice of religious rites, lovers of mysteries and initiations, performers of sacrificial rites, mystics, religious addicts, but dignified and reverent, modest, philosophical, faithful in marriage,
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...os/3D*.html#13

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...os/3D*.html#13

Saturn seems quite religious to Ptolemy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post

Or maybe it is more cultural you know. At the place and time of Ptolemy, almost all cults involved sacrifices, and everyone was more or less involved in such, especially cults of rulers. That is why over half of the personality results in the chapter involve religion, Saturn and Mercury more than others, Jupiter is related to religion in moderation, as it fits dignified people.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

.


Benjamin Dykes translation of Abu Mashars GREAT INTRODUCTION
http://theastrologypodcast.com/2019/...enjamin-dykes/


SATURN signifies also buildings and waters and rivers
and the quantities or measures of things, and the divisions of the earth
also affluence and a multitude of assets, and masteries which are done by hand
greed and the greatest poverty and the poor.

And he signifies travel by sea, and foreign travel
[that is] far away and at great length, and bad.

And cleverness, envy and wits and seductions, and boldness in dangers
and impediment, and hesitation, and being singular
and a scarcity of association with men, and pride and magnanimity
and bluffing and bragging and the subjection of men
also the managers of a kingdom
and of every work which comes to be with force and with evil and injuries
and a tendency to anger, even warriors and fettering and prison,
also truth in words, and esteem, and prudence and understanding,
and experience, and offense, and obstinacy
and a multitude of thoughts and a depth of counsel
and insistence, and stubbornness in [his] method.

.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

*


Benjamin Dykes translation of Abu Mashars GREAT INTRODUCTION
http://theastrologypodcast.com/2019/...enjamin-dykes/

SATURN wishes good to no one
And he signifies old men and weighty men
and burdens and fear, griefs and sorrow
and the complication of the mind.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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concept of "essential dignities" in astrology
looking in-depth at the categories of rulership

and

detriment or exile
as well as exaltation

and fall aka depression.
acommon misconceptions about planetary dignities

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvDQiISa7SY


.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

*



'....SATURN signifies fraud
and affliction and difficulty and loss
also ancestors and what is left behind by the dead, mourning
and being orphaned, and old things.....'
Benjamin Dykes translation of Abu Mashars GREAT INTRODUCTION
http://theastrologypodcast.com/2019/...enjamin-dykes/




.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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SATURN in physical description
is described as 'cold and dry'
This points to little flesh on the bones, small eyes
no alluring softness in curves and dimples
the hair is not soft, shiny and bouncy
but sparse and tends towards being lacklustre, pale or dull.
The body is generally thin and angular
with prominent bone structure
but sometimes it may incline towards excess fat, due to a weak, lethargic constitution.
The countenance is downward looking
and there is often an awkward gait, a slow, hesitant movement
with little trace of a spring in the step
www.skyscript.co.uk/astrology_saturn.html




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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...08#post1012608

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Apotelesmatika

1. Powers

SATURN is cooling and moderately drying


2. Qualities

SATURNn and Mars are maleficent



17. Depressions

Aries is heating depression of SATURN
CaAPRICORN is southern depression of Jupiter


27. Qualities

Saturn predominating indicates destruction by cold, with long illnesses, consumptions, withering, disturbances caused by fluids, rheumatisms, quartan fevers, falling, exile, poverty, imprisonment, mourning, fears, and deaths, especially among those advanced in age, scarcity and destruction of useful animals by disease, fearful cold, freezing, misty and pestilential corruption of air, clouds, gloom, multitude of destructive snowstorms, abundance of harmful reptiles, storms, the wreck of fleets, disastrous voyages, scarcity and death of fish, high and ebb tides of the seas, the excessive floods of rivers and pollution of their waters, want, scarcity and loss of crops, especially of those grown for necessary uses, through worms or locusts or floods or cloud-burst or hail, and the like
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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Medieval alchemists
ascribed to the planet Saturn
a gloomy and slow character
SATURNINE is a word rarely used

When people are called SATURNINE
and/or have SATURNINE dispositions
they are often described as:
- brooding, bitter, obsessive
- sluggish or taciturn
- having a gloomy manner

.
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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to any interested beginners reading this thread
the following valuable and useful advice
has been generously provided by greybeard
Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

Houses do not rule planets.

Planets rule signs
and a sign ruled by a particular planet appears on the cusp of some house.

The planet that rules the sign on the cusp of a house is lord of that house, its ruler.

The ruler of a house has dominion over the affairs of the house
and of any planets found within the boundaries of the sign it rules.

Whether the ruler operates for good or evil depends on its conditioning
for which there are many measurements.

A planet in a house operates most strongly there because directly,
although its behavior is determined by its ruler, even though indirect.
Rather than "ruler"
we might say that the planet ruling the sign on a cusp "disposes" that house
and whatever it contains.

Houses are fixed in relation to Earth.
They are earth-bound, or mundane, and symbolize "surrounding circumstances".

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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The Origins of the EXALTATIONS: A New Discovery
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHRBCSfV300


astrologers Chris Brennan and Benjamin Dykes unveil a new discovery

about the origins of the exaltations
derived from a lost Hermetic text preserved by Abu Ma'shar.
Paula Belluomini made a number of diagrams to illustrate the concepts
so I would recommend watching the video.
Ben plans to publish his translation of the Great Introduction by Abu Ma'shar
sometime in the next few months, his website to receive a notification when that is released: https://bendykes.com

Last summer Keiji Yamamoto and Charles Burnett released
their long-awaited translation of The Great Introduction to Astrology
by the 9th century astrologer Abu Ma'shar.
This was the first time this text has been translated into English in its entirety.
Abu Ma'shar frequently cites a lost Greek text
attributed to Hermes Trismegistus.
This appears to be the same text called the Panaretos
that the 4th century astrologer Paulus Alexandrinus drew on
for his treatment of seven planets Lots
although Abu Ma'shar shares much more from the text than Paulus did.


The Hermes material preserved by Abu Ma'shar contains a set of rationales
for the domicile and exaltation schemes
that are unique
and it seems to preserve what may be the original conceptual rationales
for both of those schemes.
The exaltations chapter in particular
provides a much more detailed explanation for the exaltations than any I've ever seen
and it is also unique because
it provides an astronomical rationale for the exaltations degrees
not just the signs of exaltation and fall.

Arguments for the domiciles and exaltations presented by this text
are based firmly rooted in the tropical zodiac
and this raises some major questions about previous assumptions
that the exaltations had their origins in the sideral zodiac
and the earlier Mesopotamian tradition.
The discovery also raises questions
about the extent to which Hellenistic astrology
and western astrology in general
partially represents a sudden invention or technical construct
that was put together sometime around the 1st century BCE.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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THEMA MUNDI in Hellenistic astrology
illustrates positions of the seven visible classical planets
at the beginning of the universe
tsmall commented that
if you look at the Thema Mundi 4th house
Libra
is ruled by Venus
one of the traditional significations of the mother
also Libra is the exaltation of SATURN.
SATURN (the father) has natural affinity with 4th
and
is exalted by Venus
in the house that signifies "home/roots"
also gives us Saturn's affiliation with death
as the 4th represents death among other significations

Thema Mundi literally a teaching tool for astrologers.
as an illustration of reasons for the domicile rulers
the exaltations, the planetary joys
the nature of the aspects, sect


Douglas Noblehorse article extract
“....The Thema Mundi is a Hellenistic Era Natural Wheel
that illustrates fundamental astrological principles.
In addition, it reveals the inner geometrical elegance
that gives these fundamentals their meaning and definition...."




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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

I wish JA was on my marketing team
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Re: SATURN is SOLE DOMICILE RULER of AQUARIUS

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SATURN depicts someone who is characterised by
austerity or seriousness.
If Saturn is dignified and well placed, they are inclined to think before they speak
and as a consequence their words carry weight.
Such a person is not to be lightly dismissed
Lilly describes Saturnine types as profound in imagination, severe in acts,
in labour patient, in arguing or disputing grave
in obtaining the goods of this life studious and solicitous.
Their sense of humour is dry and earthy
based on observing the reality of life
They seldom throw caution to the wind
and are always aware of a sense of responsibility to themselves and others.
They do not display their emotions easily
but their emotions, like their imaginations, can be profound.
Such individuals are observably deep, sincere
and generally gather respect.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/astrology_saturn.html
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
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