Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Traditional Astrology

Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 01-11-2012, 07:57 PM
Caprising Caprising is offline
Account Closed
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 66
John Wayne Gacy

Post deleted.


Last edited by Caprising; 04-20-2018 at 01:53 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Unread 01-12-2012, 05:31 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: los angeles california
Posts: 12,474
Re: John Wayne Gacy

Top notch Traditionalist delineation!!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Unread 01-12-2012, 07:27 AM
NorthNodePisces's Avatar
NorthNodePisces NorthNodePisces is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 97
Re: John Wayne Gacy

Shouldn't the local apparent time be taken into account? Or has it already been taken into account with that time? Assuming it hasn't, when I use the local apparent time, his ASC shows up at 29Ί 48' Scorpio.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Unread 01-12-2012, 07:49 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: los angeles california
Posts: 12,474
Re: John Wayne Gacy

This is a question currently under investigation (changing to LAT before entering into an astro program) 99.99% of the opinion is that this is not necessary (because the programs already take it into account) and therefore will give an inaccurate ascending degree; I however still lean toward it being accurate, but am in the process of trying to verify whether or not the programs already take the LAT into account.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Unread 01-12-2012, 04:38 PM
sandstone sandstone is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bestcoast of canada
Posts: 1,060
Re: John Wayne Gacy

from a post here back in november.

that comparison is skewed...
there are no examples of what a traditional astrologer says, but instead: traditional astrology says ".."
modern astrology says: "..." there is no example of what modern astrology says, just four modern astrologers said "..." that is one skewed comparison.. one would hope the author doesn't make similar skewed conclusions with their work in astrology..
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sandstone For This Useful Post:
katydid (05-26-2016), StillOne (04-07-2015)
  #6  
Unread 01-12-2012, 07:16 PM
sandstone sandstone is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bestcoast of canada
Posts: 1,060
Re: John Wayne Gacy

hi caprising,

thanks for the link to the astrology skeptics page.. i note it doesn't make distinctions between traditional or modern, but is mostly bent on trying to show how astrology is not scientific as well as that it is bogus...

we could turn this into a philosophical discussion, but that would require the thread was located in a different ''''box'''' then trad astrology... funny thing about these boxes( or categories), is they can box a person in!!

i have much to say on the in's and outs of stuff like this, but i am going to hold off in deference to the box system we have going here at aw... cheers james
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to sandstone For This Useful Post:
StillOne (04-07-2015)
  #7  
Unread 01-12-2012, 07:59 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 68,623
Re: John Wayne Gacy

As is true with many serial killers, other than his victims, few witnessed the evil within John Wayne Gacy, Jr. who appeared to be a sharp businessman who spent his time - when not building up his contracting company - hosting elaborate street parties for friends and neighbors, dressing as a clown entertaining children at local hospitals, immersing himself in organizations such as the Jaycees, working to make his community a better place to live and as a result was admired and liked by most who had known him.

Unsuspecting friends and neighbors were horrified when John Wayne Gacy was convicted of the torture, rape and murder of 33 males between 1972 until his arrest in 1978: he was dubbed the "Killer Clown" because he entertained kids at parties as "Pogo The Clown": he was eventually convicted, sentenced to death and executed by lethal injection on May 10, 199
4 .


http://www.freeinfosociety.com/article.php?id=80

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy View Post
1. Calculate Almuten of Ascendant

Ascendant (A) = Sagittarius 1 22"

-------------A
Sign-------Jupiter
Exaltation---N/A
Triplicity----Jupiter
Term-------Jupiter
Face-------Mercury

Jupiter: 3 | Mercury: 1

2. Judge the Condition of the Almuten.

hmm, the Almuten of the Ascendant is Jupiter. Jupiter's in Gemini, in Depression, in the Term of Venus, Out of Sect, Conjunct by body to Mars which is in the Term of Venus, both are Angular

The Moon is elevated above Mercury, the Moon is Combust, the Sun is blocking her Light, Mercury in Pisces, in Depression and Fall, in the Term of Saturn, both are Angular by Sign.

So both Mercury and Jupiter dispose each other on an Angle, and are both very weak and in turn Malefic.

You must also observe that Venus is in Aquarius a Human Sign, in its own Term. Jupiter Trines Venus with Dominion given to a Malefic Jupiter, so everything Venus has to offer the Native, is ruled by a disturbed Jupiter.

What we have here is a strange mind, someone that lacks common morale, someone that lives in delusion, that's going to take his energy and thrust down others

i don't like looking at the charts of murderers
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Unread 01-12-2012, 09:26 PM
sandstone sandstone is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bestcoast of canada
Posts: 1,060
Re: John Wayne Gacy

roy, could you explain why jupiter is given dominion over venus? i am curious about this.. does it have to do with the fact jupiter rules ascedant or is in an angle, or is it something else? by night the triplicity ruler is mercury, or jupiter so perhaps this is it...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Unread 01-12-2012, 10:26 PM
sandstone sandstone is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: bestcoast of canada
Posts: 1,060
Re: John Wayne Gacy

thanks caprising - i did a post in r and d called 'hindsight is 20/20' which touches on some of my thoughts.. if you have something specific you would like to ask - fire away on that thread! cheers james
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Unread 04-04-2015, 06:20 PM
WitchHazel WitchHazel is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6
Re: John Wayne Gacy

"Oculus Taurus (Aldebaran) - to be fierce, full of courage to delight in Military affairs, unquiet, seditious, but the Moon in conjunction with it, imports a good fellow, especially in the Ascendant; but if the Lord of the Ascendant to be with the Moon in conjunction with that fixed Star, he proves a Murderer; the more probable, if he be a masculine Planet, and the Sun unfortunate: usually Saturn with Oculus Taurus, produces great afflictions, and shows a strange mind and very wicked" - it's from William Lilly's "Christian Astrology, Part 3".

However, in John Wayne Gacy's chart, neither Jupiter (Lord of Ascendant), nor Moon nor Saturn are in conjunctions with Aldebaran. So I can't determine why BobZemco applied this interpretation to John Wayne Gacy.

Last edited by WitchHazel; 04-04-2015 at 06:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to WitchHazel For This Useful Post:
StillOne (01-08-2017), Zonark (04-30-2015)
  #11  
Unread 04-04-2015, 07:17 PM
Oddity's Avatar
Oddity Oddity is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,330
Re: John Wayne Gacy

The debunkers' page did have one useful bit of info. Has anyone definitively got a birth time? It's still excruciatingly difficult to find 'mass murderer' in a chart, regardless, but:

From debunking page:

John Gacy was born in Chicago on 17 March 1942 at 00:49 CST, or 05:49 GMT, CST being the time required by Illinois for birth registration even though War Time was then in effect. Some hospitals did not follow this rule, so the actual birth time might have been an hour later at 06:49 GMT. Both times give a Sagittarius ascendant.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Oddity For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (04-13-2015), katydid (05-26-2016)
  #12  
Unread 04-13-2015, 02:48 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 68,623
Re: John Wayne Gacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by WitchHazel View Post

"Oculus Taurus (Aldebaran) - to be fierce, full of courage to delight in Military affairs, unquiet, seditious, but the Moon in conjunction with it, imports a good fellow, especially in the Ascendant; but if the Lord of the Ascendant to be with the Moon in conjunction with that fixed Star, he proves a Murderer; the more probable, if he be a masculine Planet, and the Sun unfortunate: usually Saturn with Oculus Taurus, produces great afflictions, and shows a strange mind and very wicked" - it's from William Lilly's "Christian Astrology, Part 3".

However, in John Wayne Gacy's chart, neither Jupiter (Lord of Ascendant), nor Moon nor Saturn are in conjunctions with Aldebaran.

So I can't determine why BobZemco applied this interpretation to John Wayne Gacy.
BobZemco himself was quoting those quotes posted by the OP
and
those quotes formed part of BobZemco's previous signature statement
which has since changed


i.e.

the quotes relate to delineation by four astrologers
who were asked to read a chart of an anonymous person
The chart was the chart of John Wayne Gacy
- each of those four astrologers is named in the study:




QUOTE:


...John Sandbach, a nationally known astrologer who has authored six books delineation of John Wayne Gacy
stated that he should not:
"become weighed down with regrets about how you could have done more in some past situation,"
and describing a "plasticity or lack of aggression" in John Wayne Gacy's chart,
encouraging him to work with young people
because John Wayne Gacy could "bring out their best qualities."



Randy Goodman said John Wayne Gacy was:
"really born to serve people."
and
"In the past you have used your energies very well,
so therefore in this life you have a lot to contribute,
and ... your life will be very, very positive.'...”




...Norma Knight described John Wayne gacy as:
"a very, very sensitive person."
Asked whether youth ministry would provide suitable employment, she replied
"I think that you can be very good with kids
and that it might be a good medium for you to learn to be more trusting in the giving and receiving."



Beverly Farrel, internationally recognized author, lecturer
and teacher of religion, metaphysics, astrology, psychic awareness with 30 years experience in field of the paranormal
encouraged John Wayne Gacy to do youth work, because
"when you're working with young people you're not gonna have a lot of heavy-duty problems



THE CONCLUSION OF THE STUDY WAS:
“...The results seemed to indicate that astrologers cannot read a persons character from the positions of the planets at the moment of birth,
nor can they see into anyone's past or future,
nor do they seem to possess any insights other than the ability to impress their clientele...”

IN CONTRAST
BobZemco's signature quote stated that according to traditional astrology
John Wayne Gacy "has a strange mind and is very wicked"
but did not specify which traditional indicator that was.
BobZemco has not visited our forum for some time
and so exactly what he meant is a matter for conjecture



__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JUPITERASC For This Useful Post:
SunConjunctUranus (02-12-2019)
  #13  
Unread 04-13-2015, 02:51 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 68,623
Re: John Wayne Gacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caprising View Post

How would the "other side" of John Gacy's persona be shown using this trad technique? A closer look at his life shows that he was a successful businessman, his construction company making a very good profit, and he worked tirelessly for the Jaycees, making many friends and earning a good reputation by doing so, in fact he was voted "man of the year" for his contribution. His involvement with younger children is also well known, and he dressed as "pogo the clown" and often entertained them for free! A real Jeckle and Hyde if there ever was one!
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Unread 04-13-2015, 03:03 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 68,623
Re: John Wayne Gacy

"....If the Moon is under the Sun'rays
and its light is destroyed
and it is not seen,
then it's corrupted
but it is beneficial for one who desires theft or treachery
or something which is kept secret..."


DOROTHEUS CARMEN ASTROLOGICUM Pingree translation Book l
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dorotheus1.pdf

Book ll http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dorotheus2.pdf

Book lll http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dorotheus3.pdf
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Unread 04-14-2015, 09:44 AM
ignorant ignorant is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1
Re: John Wayne Gacy

Hi,
The quote is from Lilly's "Christian Astrology - Book 3" on page 51 of the pdf file from worldastrology.net. Just do a search for the words ' strange mind"
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Unread 04-29-2015, 12:58 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 68,623
Re: John Wayne Gacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by ignorant View Post

Hi,
The quote is from Lilly's "Christian Astrology - Book 3" on page 51 of the pdf file from worldastrology.net. Just do a search for the words ' strange mind"

FIXED STARS AND THE SIGNIFICATOR OF MANNERS
CHRISTIAN ASTROLOGY 1647 by William Lilly
Book Three
Pages 536 - 8

http://www.renaissanceastrology.com/...rsmanners.html

QUOTE

'.....usually Saturn with Oculus Taurus, produces great afflictions,
and shewes a strange mind and very wicked.....'
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Unread 05-18-2015, 06:10 PM
cspencer cspencer is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 145
Re: John Wayne Gacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caprising View Post
I'm sure that most of you folk will have seen this quote:

"Four Modern Astrologers said Serial Killer John Wayne Gacy: "…can be very good with kids..." "...just your presence would be beneficial to other people..." "...a fairly well-rounded personality...you can offer a good role model..." "You have an instinctive awareness and your uninhibited response to life can refresh and gladden whomever you encounter."

Traditional Astrology Says: "...shows a strange mind and very wicked."

Gacy received 12 Death and 21 Life sentences for the murder of 33 boys."

Which traditional indicators would point to "A STRANGE MIND AND VERY WICKED" ? 17 march 42 0.29 am Chicago IL
According to Firmicus Maternus, Mars in the 7th Place indicates great evil and perils.

Quote:
He will make the natives suffer as criminals and murderers, be defendants accused as discoverers of new crimes; or they will be torturers, executioners or informers.
Liber Tertius Tract IV Paragraph 17

When reading ancient texts, it's important to understand the thought processes.

There's no way to list every possible delineation, so typically, for benefics the best case scenario is given and for malefics the worst case scenario is provided.

Quote:
Mars in the seventh house, that is, on the descendant by night or day makes for a violent death according to the nature of the signs. He indicates this evil more strongly in alien signs for then he predicts pain, lacerations of the body from a fall or death; or he has the native thrown into prison, or condemns him to deadly misfortune.

Liber Tertius Tract IV Paragraph 18

Is Mars in domicile, detriment, exalted or in fall in Gemini? No, so Gemini is an "alien sign."

That means Mars is peregrine and to look at how to act, Mars relies in part on Pisces Mercury, who disposits Mars.

Which one of these three: torturers, executioners or informers, can be ruled out?

Informers.

Yeah, spies are included as informers. Mars cannot be peregrine and an informer.

To be fair, Maternus also says:

Quote:
Jupiter in the seventh house, (that, is, the descendant) in a diurnal house indicates wealth and a happy old age, By night he changes drastically the house of marriage and children. For the native will lose a beloved wife and see the deaths of children. Late in life, however, he will receive an increase in income, not very large, but enough to keep him from want.

Liber Tertius Tract III Paragraph 15

That's Brown's translation which is quite confusing.

Maternus is actually comparing a 7th Place Jupiter in a day chart with a 7th Place Jupiter in a night chart.

Even so, the delineation Maternus provides assumes Jupiter is the sole Star in the 7th and not assembled with any other Star, like Mars, which would radically change the delineation.

The Stars do not exist in a vacuum. They are in signs and places, and they may have despositors or be in aspect or assembled and then there's the matter of their celestial condition.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to cspencer For This Useful Post:
tsmall (05-19-2015)
  #18  
Unread 05-18-2015, 07:32 PM
WitchHazel WitchHazel is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6
Re: John Wayne Gacy

Quote:
Yeah, spies are included as informers. Mars cannot be peregrine and an informer.
Hi CSPENCER,
Why would you say that "Mars can not be peregrine and an informer"?

I used to think that Mercury signifies a principle of collecting information - not Mars. In this JWG chart Mars is disposed by Mercury, which is in Pisces in 3rd house. He could very well collect information in a hidden silent way about his neighbors. I think he could be an excellent informer...

Last edited by WitchHazel; 05-18-2015 at 07:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Unread 05-18-2015, 10:59 PM
cspencer cspencer is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 145
Re: John Wayne Gacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by WitchHazel View Post
Hi CSPENCER,
Why would you say that "Mars can not be peregrine and an informer"?

I used to think that Mercury signifies a principle of collecting information - not Mars. In this JWG chart Mars is disposed by Mercury, which is in Pisces in 3rd house. He could very well collect information in a hidden silent way about his neighbors. I think he could be an excellent informer...
Informers are motivated by money, revenge or ideology.

None of those things are indicated in the chart.

Spying/informing is a martial act, since it's dangerous (perilous). You'd want to see connections with the 11th Place, since the native would be functioning as an asset for the 10th Place government or government agency or employer in the case of business/industrial espionage.

Ideology brings the 9th Place into play; money the 2nd Place; and revenge would be the 7th Place.

Spies and informants rarely operate as "rogues" (it's way too dangerous) so they have handlers, for Mars that would be Venus or Moon (ruling Taurus/Libra and Cancer).

I don't know that Gacy was a voyeur, but I wouldn't be shocked if he was, yet that wouldn't be Mars or Mercury.

Here's where you might want to look at antiscia.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to cspencer For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (05-19-2015), tsmall (05-19-2015)
  #20  
Unread 05-26-2016, 05:44 AM
Astro Prophet Astro Prophet is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 22
Re: John Wayne Gacy

The most interesting aspect of JWG's chart that I picked up on is where ALGOL is situated. It is very revealing as to his guilt and his contention that someone other then he did the killing.

Another interesting chart to take note of is that of Scott Peterson. Here is a person who actually convinced himself that his lies were the truth as shown by his interviews and phone calls.

For his acts he now awakes every morning to look out to see where he threw laci peterson's and his unborns childs body into the ocean.

His Ne=Asc op. Mn\Desc. is so revealing. I had to add to this thread as I have studied these charts and this is what I remember most of my analysis of them.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Unread 01-07-2017, 08:43 PM
KDean KDean is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 1
Re: John Wayne Gacy

Gacy's Lord of the ascendant (Jupiter) is 4deg55 from Aldebaran in Gemini. Mars (a malefic) is 3deg07 from Aldebaran in Gemini. I would say this configuration puts it in the "ball park" of fulfilling Lilly's murder and wicked mind description.

Ken
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Unread 01-15-2017, 02:36 PM
thelivingsky thelivingsky is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 392
Re: John Wayne Gacy

Taking one chart to explain a phenomena (such as Gacy's propensity for murder) is just not scientific and really not useful There were many people born the same moment as Gacy who didn't murder anyone. Surely there were people born the same moment as Hitler who did not orchestrate genocide. And this is the eternal dilemma of astrologers because there are many things that influence human behavior besides astrology.

I took the charts of many serial killers and looked to see what was common to them all. I wrote about this on my blog at www.thelivingsky.wordpress.com

{deleted non-traditional comments, moderator}

Barb at thelivingsky

Last edited by tsmall; 01-18-2017 at 11:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Unread 01-15-2017, 08:11 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 68,623
Re: John Wayne Gacy

Quote:
Originally Posted by thelivingsky View Post

Taking one chart to explain a phenomena (such as Gacy's propensity for murder)
is just not scientific
and really not useful
There were many people born the same moment as Gacy
who didn't murder anyone.


Surely there were people born the same moment as Hitler
who did not orchestrate genocide.


And this is the eternal dilemma of astrologers
because there are many things that influence human behavior
besides astrology.
keep in mind that
not all the more than three hundred thousand people worldwideborn on that day
even if some were born at the same moment as Gacy
not all were given birth to at the identical location as Gacy

and so
the fact is
all have different ascendants
and therefore different house placements for planets


same goes for Hitler
hundreds of thousands of people were not all born in the same town
and at the same moment as Hitler and on the same day as Hitler
and not at the identical LOCATION of the town
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
gacy, john, wayne

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sadness in the John Travolta family AquariusT Celebrity Astrology 5 01-10-2009 08:41 PM
Russian Astrologers Predict the Victory of John McCain timashev Mundane Astrology 30 11-10-2008 08:27 AM
How Does John Feel About Me? ALST123 Horary Questions on Relational Issues 4 03-09-2008 08:12 PM
John Frawley's latest? Ruby 2 Recommendations 0 01-14-2007 03:42 PM
John Frawley - your opinion? ShadowRain Medical Astrology 1 07-22-2006 08:26 PM



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.