Will I lose money by being with him?

With help from a good friend I was able to narrow a nagging question down to something that hopefully is measurable in horary terms.

The question is, in being with my current partner, will I lose alot of money? That is, will I end up paying a lot to support him or help out or for whatever other reasons.

The chart is attached. House2, finance is Taurus ruled by Venus, which is (as we know currently retrograde) and sitting in HIS 5th house of romance/love (me). It is 14 degrees away from the Sun (under sunbeams) therefore burnt. I'm not sure if that means loss of funding. He is Virgo ruled by Mercury, oddly conjunct that Venus. I am Pisces, ruled by Jupiter.

KatyaVelikaya said:

With help from a good friend I was able to narrow a nagging question down to something that hopefully is measurable in horary terms.

The question is, in being with my current partner, will I lose alot of money? That is, will I end up paying a lot to support him or help out or for whatever other reasons.

The chart is attached. House2, finance is Taurus ruled by Venus, which is (as we know currently retrograde) and sitting in HIS 5th house of romance/love (me). It is 14 degrees away from the Sun (under sunbeams) therefore burnt. I'm not sure if that means loss of funding. He is Virgo ruled by Mercury, oddly conjunct that Venus. I am Pisces, ruled by Jupiter.

Click to expand...

I'd be interested in what someone more experienced has to say about this. I have noticed a few things - one, your significator is in his 1st house, so I believe this means you are more keen on him. Second, Venus rules his significator as well as your second house - which is his 8th house of other people's money. Third, Uranus is conjunct the AC. I know that Uranus isn't used in traditional horsey, but to me this would indicate some sort of instability or surprise.

What caused you to question your financial stability within this relationship?

Thank you for the feedback. To your question, I simply know there are expenses coming up that I will have to cover. It is a long story. I am interested in any other feedback as well.

(Following is not in accordance with standard horary practice and uses whole sign house format)

I'll use the Lot of Substance ("wealth"): ascendant + cusp of 2nd house - lord of the 2nd house, to estimate an answer to this question:

-querent = 1st house = Aries = Mars
-he = 7th house = Libra = Venus
-the Lot of Substance falls @ 14 Cancer, significator = the Moon
a) the Lot is angular (4th house) and in a fertile sign (Cancer) = a no answer to the question
b) Moon is posited in the 11th house of gains = a no answer
c) Mars flows away from the Lot, and Moon flows away from Mars = a yes answer
d) Venus retrogrades away from the Lot = a no answer
e) Moon flows away from Venus = a no answer
f) the Lot is in an elevated degree of Cancer = a no answer
-the Part of Fortune posits the querent's first house = a no answer
Results:
No = 6 testimonies
Yes = 1 testimony
Answer: no, querent will not lose a great deal of money to support or help out this person.

Hi Dr. Farr,

Wow, I have read a lot of your calculations in the past and although they're not standard horary practice, I know the 8th ball has been highly accurate overall. The lots have always interested me (but I always fail at calculating them myself). So I was very VERY surprised to see the positive outcome here -- not just the overall answer, but the fact that boiled down, only 1/7 yes and 6/7 no makes it a very strong "no" answer! I am pleased about this, as it gives me lots of hope (and a good mood!)

Thank you so much for your time, and input, as always. (And Happy 2014!!!)

What you really want to look at, regarding the more long-term situation here, is a composite for he and you (make it in whole sign house format): regarding $$ vis a vis the relationship, find the "Part of Abundance in the Home" (ascendant + sun - moon) in the composite chart . Then write down 3 columns, headed: "difficult", "average", "favorable" and mark the appropriate column according to the following criteria:

+if the Lot is in the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 7th, 10th or 11th house check the favorable column
+if the Lot is in the 3rd, 5th or 9th house check the average column
+if the Lot is in the 6th, 8th or 12th house check the difficult column
+if the Lot is in a domicile or exaltation sign of Jupiter (Sagittarius, Pisces, Cancer) check the favorable column
+if the Lot is in a detriment or fall sign of Jupiter (Gemini, Virgo, Capricorn) check the difficult column
+if the Lot is in any other sign check the average column
+if the Lot is in the same sign as the North Node check the favorable column
+if the Lot is in the same sign as the South Node check the difficult column
+if the Lot is not in the same sign as either the NN or SN, check the average column
Find the place of Jupiter in the composite chart:
+if Jupiter is in the same sign as the Lot check the favorable column
+if the sign Jupiter is in is trine or sextile or semi-sextile BY SIGN to the sign the Lot is in, check the favorable column
+if the sign Jupiter is in is opposite or square or quincunx BY SIGN to the sign the Lot is in, check the difficult column

Now, add up the checks: whichever column has the highest number of checks indicates the likely trend relating to $$ concerns, in the relationship: "difficult" means difficulties regarding $$ matters; "average" means typical + and - ups and downs, in regards to the $$ situation; "favorable" means above average, prosperous, beneficial influences concerning $$....

Ooh! I will do this! I always have trouble of the [planet] plus or minus [planet] calculation so I will write here what the composite shows and post it as well.

Asc: 11 degrees Virgo 34 mins
Sun: 14 degrees Pisces 27 mins
Moon: 26 degrees Leo 23 mins

ascendant + sun - moon
11. 34 + 14.27 - 26.23? That is where I get lost... Can you help me just with that? and then I will go thru the entire list that you provided myself.

Lot of Abundance in the Home falls @ 29 Pisces (exactly @ 29Pisces38) in the 7th whole sign house of the composite chart.

Thank you! I was just researching how to calculate it on my own. i will go back to that later because I want to learn how to do it. IN the meantime I will move forward with the list...

Ok, this Lot of Abundance: 29 Pisces, 7th house. To the list:


+if the Lot is in the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 7th, 10th or 11th house check the favorable column YES
+if the Lot is in the 3rd, 5th or 9th house check the average column NO
+if the Lot is in the 6th, 8th or 12th house check the difficult column NO
+if the Lot is in a domicile or exaltation sign of Jupiter (Sagittarius, Pisces, Cancer) check the favorable column YES
+if the Lot is in a detriment or fall sign of Jupiter (Gemini, Virgo, Capricorn) check the difficult column NO
+if the Lot is in any other sign check the average column NO
+if the Lot is in the same sign as the North Node check the favorable column NO
+if the Lot is in the same sign as the South Node check the difficult column NO
+if the Lot is not in the same sign as either the NN or SN, check the average column YES
Find the place of Jupiter in the composite chart:
+if Jupiter is in the same sign as the Lot check the favorable column - NO, Jupiter is in Aries here; the Lot is in Pisces.
+if the sign Jupiter is in is trine or sextile or semi-sextile BY SIGN to the sign the Lot is in, check the favorable column - Hm I think not, bc Jup is 11 Aries and this is 29 Pisces, so the total degree difference is 12 degrees, not a trine etc.
+if the sign Jupiter is in is opposite or square or quincunx BY SIGN to the sign the Lot is in, check the difficult column -I think also No bc of the 12 degrees.
__
Subtotals:

Favorable column: +2
Average column: +1
Difficult column: 0

So - that looks overall quite favorable. How can it be. His finances are not great now... I am really surprised!!

Composite shows the net influences for 2 taken together as a unit: who knows what changed energy field this combination will bring about: but, of course, this composite field must be actual (ie it must be by the 2 people actually being physically joined together in daily life-can't be at a distance, by phone or email, to become actuated)
Best wishes!

Right right, it goes without saying. And that was my question to, not for us when apart but when living together full time etc, once all these logistics clear. This is fantastic, really!!

Can i ask about the calculation, because I want to try out some other lots.

I read on the Robert Hand site that you're to add a number of degrees based on what the sign is. VIrgo adds 150, Pisces adds 330 and Leo 120.

So if I go Virgo 11+150 = 161.
Pisces 14 + 330 = 344
Leo 26 + 120 = 146.

[Asc: 11 degrees Virgo 34 mins
Sun: 14 degrees Pisces 27 mins
Moon: 26 degrees Leo 23 mins]

Which may be wrong. But if it's right, then we have Asc+moon-sun

Asc 161 + Sun 146 (= 307) - 344 is negative 37 (?)

KatyaVelikaya said:

The question is, in being with my current partner, will I lose alot of money? That is, will I end up paying a lot to support him or help out or for whatever other reasons.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but we have been for a run around this block before, and you knew that - right?

As for this chart, the 2nd house cusp is in Taurus and the 7th house cusp is in Virgo, both ruled by Venus. It would be handy to have separate significators for your money and your partner as they both figure in your question. In this connection, it is worth noting that the almuten for 5 degrees of Libra, the 7th house cusp, is actually Saturn.

Taking Saturn as your partner instead of Venus makes sense here. Saturn is on the cusp of your 8th house and his 2nd house and Saturn is peregrine in Scorpio, where is disposed by Mars - you. (The ascendant is in Aries, not Pisces, and Mars is in the 7th house showing concern about your partner, disposed by Venus showing concern about your cash.) So, as has been noted in previous horaries, your feckless (peregrine) partner is relying on you for cash.

This is backed up by Venus, ruler of the 2nd house and your cash, which is disposed by Saturn (at the disposal of Saturn) and retrograde, so going backwards! Venus is actually applying to a sextile with Saturn, further showing your cash about to head in your partner's direction.

But... Mercury and the Sun get to Venus first, so frustrating the perfection of the sextile of Venus to Saturn. What are Mercury and the Sun in this chart? Well, they are concerned with your 6th house, but they are also disposed by Saturn and so more pointedly, they are also concerned with your partner's 12th house.... However, as the Sun is just separating from a square with Mars, you probably have some idea what this is about and this may well be what prompted the question.

Anyway, the conclusion I draw from this chart is that yes, your partner will be a drain on your resources, but other priorities (Mercury, Sun) will come along to claim priority on those resources, which may or may not be connected with your partner.

KatyaVelikaya said:

Can i ask about the calculation, because I want to try out some other lots.

I read on the Robert Hand site that you're to add a number of degrees based on what the sign is. VIrgo adds 150, Pisces adds 330 and Leo 120.

So if I go Virgo 11+150 = 161.
Pisces 14 + 330 = 344
Leo 26 + 120 = 146.

[Asc: 11 degrees Virgo 34 mins
Sun: 14 degrees Pisces 27 mins
Moon: 26 degrees Leo 23 mins]

Which may be wrong. But if it's right, then we have Asc+moon-sun

Asc 161 + Sun 146 (= 307) - 344 is negative 37 (?)

Click to expand...

Just to simplify: simply convert the degrees of the sign or planet to the degrees of the circle of the zodiac (actually this is what Hand is doing but I think, expressed in a complicated way)

Ascendant is 161degrees34 minutes
Sun is 344degrees 27 minutes
...add these = 506degrees01minutes
...then subtract the Moon:
Moon is 146degrees23minutes
so: 506:01 minus 146:23 = 359:38
...convert back into the degrees of signs = 29degreesPisces38minutes, which is the place of the Lot.

Degrees of the Zodiac:
Aries: 0 to 29 degrees
Taurus: 30 to 59 degrees
Gemini: 60 to 89 degrees
Cancer: 90 to 119 degrees
Leo: 120 to 149 degrees
Virgo: 150 to 179 degrees
Libra: 180 to 209 degrees
Scorpio: 210 to 239 degrees
Sagittarius: 240 to 269 degrees
Capricorn: 270 to 299 degrees
Aquarius: 300 to 329 degrees
Pisces: 330 to 359 degrees

Thanks Dr. Farr for that explanation, and thanks Harold for joining the discussion.

I just reread Harold's post 4 times to understand it. I think I'm still a bit confused, because how can the Arabian Hellenic Part/Lot show something OTHER than the horary? I am reminded that horary is a temporary answer (good for 3 months, no?) even though my question was intended to mean "overall" in our relationship, not just in the next 3 months.

So I will fly to his country to be together again in 2 months. That is an expense right there. We are trying to have a child and that will/could be a 6th house expense if it is health care expenses. He needs some dental work that I want to help out with and that would be my 12th/his 6th. These are just things I know of right now.

Can we get more clarity on what/who Mercury and the Sun represent here? Harold, you wrote:

Mercury and the Sun get to Venus first, so frustrating the perfection of the sextile of Venus to Saturn. What are Mercury and the Sun in this chart? Well, they are concerned with your 6th house, but they are also disposed by Saturn and so more pointedly, they are also concerned with your partner's 12th house.

Click to expand...

They are "concerned with" but...what else? Can we know precisely what they represent here, or ??

My other thought, is Venus is Rx in the chart bc Venus is Rx in the sky now, and that's going to end in the end of January or early FEbruary. So, in theory, if I'd asked the question after February (or if I re-ask and/or circumstances change) Venus will be in a different condition simply because that's the way astrology rolls.

So I suppose my question now is: which of these "takes precedence", the lot or the horary? And if its the horary, does it apply our entire relationship until one of us dies or moves on? Or just the next 3-6 months or?

Edited to add: since the Lots depend on the couple's energy *together* (and now we're separated), is the Arabic Lot prediction more accurate in this case for once we are together, given that horary is 1) a temporary answer and 2) doesn't reflect the relationship energy as a unit??

In my opinion (which is very often at variance with the opinions of our friends who follow standard horary doctrines and methods) a composite chart cannot be compared to a horary: its apples vs oranges. Composite is a combined natal of the 2 people joined together as a "new unit": horary answers specific, and usually time sensitive, questions: composite illustrates the fundamental nature of the 2 persons when energetically combined as a unit, and the trends, potentials and susceptibilites of that new "unit".

Regarding the specific question, "will I lose a lot of money being with him?", of course the HORARY takes precendence (and I stand by my delineation of that horary, that no, the querent will not lose a LOT of money by being with him) However, in terms of the fundamental nature of both these people being together as a unit, then-regarding the long term prospects of this couple relative to "abundance"-the composite Lot of Abundance in the Home shows THE LONG TERM, LASTING PROSPECTS regarding the issue of abundance ($$) for this couple as a unit, and I think that consideration (ie the long term implications of having a long term relationship with this person) is the primary concern of the OP.

Hi Dr. Farr,
You are correct in that the overall long term effect (net finances) is what I'm concerned about, less so than short term expenses that I may or may not count on. I appreciate your time in all this! I was just reviewing the lots and I think I understand how to calculate them now -- that I / we need the second chart you listed (where for example Virgo is 150 to 179 degrees) to reverse the final number into where it lands on the chart - now it makes sense to me. Thanks so much ))