"Almost" aspects

lantlos

Member
Does anyone take into consideration aspects that are just out of accepted orb range? A "sextile" that is 6-7 degrees? A "square" or "trine" that is just over 9? Should we just ignore them? Would they have zero effect at all or just a weak smidgen of an effect? I've been thinking that they translate to overcompensation in relation to the qualities of the planets. For example, I almost had a Venus/Mars sextile, and I definitely notice that I care very much about being more of a social creature to the point where I can "act out" occasionally and it might not seem as genuine as the raw aspect. Anyway, what do you guys think?
 
I use aspects by sign and I think they work fine. There is no universal standard of how big the orb range should be and it's up to astrologers to decide what orbs they want to use if they do. Don't overthink it. :) I also use orbs of 3 degrees which are required in some circumstances but it's just a convention because 3 degrees is neither too small nor too big of an orb.
 

Therese

Well-known member
Personally, I am rather flexible with orbs. For example, I use orbs as wide as 15 degrees when the Sun or the Moon is involved. When it comes to the other planets, I take into consideration how prominent those planets are in the chart (is one of them angular? singleton in hemisphere? final dispositor? etc). I also look at the orbs of other aspects in the chart. If there are plenty of tight aspects, I will probably give less importance to one that is wider unless it is somehow highlighted.
 

lantlos

Member
Personally, I am rather flexible with orbs. For example, I use orbs as wide as 15 degrees when the Sun or the Moon is involved. When it comes to the other planets, I take into consideration how prominent those planets are in the chart (is one of them angular? singleton in hemisphere? final dispositor? etc). I also look at the orbs of other aspects in the chart. If there are plenty of tight aspects, I will probably give less importance to one that is wider unless it is somehow highlighted.

Interesting. You mention singletons. My Venus is a double singleton. It's the only planet in a fire and mutable sign (Sagittarius), and it's in the 10th house (but not on the MC). I don't think my Venus and Mars are very prominent in my chart. They don't have many aspects, which I think is more important than dispositors in my opinion. Correct me if I'm wrong. I understand how dispositors work, but I just don't really find them that significant. But I guess that's a whole different discussion. Also, I only have one aspect that is almost exact and it's Mercury sextile Venus. Others that are pretty close to exact are my Venus sextile Ascendant, Mercury trine Ascendant, Moon square Mars, and a few aspects between the slow moving planets. What this all means? I don't really know for sure haha. But it's fun to figure out at least.
 

Therese

Well-known member
There are no universal rules when it comes to interpreting a chart. Some astrologers give great importance to factors that others don't even take into consideration. Some gain major insight from house placements in this or that house system, for example, while others don't even use houses at all.

The ancients said that an event or a personality trait is very probable if it is indicated in the chart in at least three different ways. I think that anything that is important in the life of the native will be implied in a thousand ways in their chart but we are all limited in what we can grasp, so spotting any three things that point towards the same direction seems like a good rule of thumb...
 
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waybread

Well-known member
I use up to 10 degrees for the sun and moon; up to 7 for the planets, and maybe 1 degree for a minor aspect. No orbs for asteroids, but you can use the planet's orb, and then I only use the conjunction.

If I want to spend time with a chart, I'd look at parallels and counter-parallels.

I widen the orbs slightly in synastry, just because I've seen happy marriages where the aspects are a bit wide. Also, I'd use a wider orb where midpoints pull the planets together. For example, in a "yod" formation the apex planet is basically the midpoint between the other two planets.

Do you use harmonics or minor aspects? They're kind of interesting. For example, a wide conjunction of 10 degrees shows up as a square in the 9th harmonic chart. (360/9.) The novile is 40 degrees, but divided by 4 for the square, gives us that 10-degree orb.

So sometimes using too wide an orb can mask more subtle stuff going on in the chart.
 

capuranusnep

Well-known member
Does anyone take into consideration aspects that are just out of accepted orb range? A "sextile" that is 6-7 degrees? A "square" or "trine" that is just over 9? Should we just ignore them? Would they have zero effect at all or just a weak smidgen of an effect? I've been thinking that they translate to overcompensation in relation to the qualities of the planets. For example, I almost had a Venus/Mars sextile, and I definitely notice that I care very much about being more of a social creature to the point where I can "act out" occasionally and it might not seem as genuine as the raw aspect. Anyway, what do you guys think?

I have personally not seen any validity in the "overcompensating" or "calling planets" theory.

If someone is feeling strongly feeling an weak aspect, they may be getting that influence from somewhere else in the chart. I suggest you always look at declinations. I also suggest you take a look at dwarf planets but that is more controversial view.
 

lantlos

Member
Thanks for your responses, guys. I haven't looked much into declinations, but I guess that'll probably be my next go-to in my astrology research. This topic, though, is just something that has been bugging me lately. Another example of an aspect that I almost had is Mercury square Uranus. If I were born just a few days earlier, I'd have it. They still square by sign of course, but I'm not sure it makes a difference.

I'm leaning towards thinking that it's still possible to feel residual effects of aspects with very wide orbs. My mind works at a very frenetic pace and that speaks to Mercury square Uranus a bit. Grouping it with my stronger Mercury square Saturn aspect and my Mercury conjunct Mars, I feel like it makes sense why I'm so scatterbrained a lot of the time. My mind can be quick (Mars), but it goes off in so many tangents all the time (Uranus). And there's also a strong filter (Saturn). I'm struggling with typing this right now even. My brain is considering all of the ways I can word my sentences, and it's a frustrating feeling.

All of the "almost" aspects I have make sense to me. Sun square Moon, Moon opposite Saturn and Neptune, Mars square Jupiter and Saturn. Reading the descriptions of these aspects makes me see a bit of myself in all of them. In my early days of researching astrology, I was very dismissive of everything. I liked the mythology of it all, but every description I read felt like a generalization. Now that I'm older and a much more rational thinker, I'm maybe realizing why astrology isn't so black and white. Maybe the connection I'm feeling with these aspects is from the fact that all of these energies blend in so many ways to culminate in our being. Or... perhaps I'm just seeing what really isn't there. That's a possibility too. I don't know.

What about you guys? Have you ever looked at the charts of someone who was born a few days earlier or later than you were? Did you not think anything of it?
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Have you checked out your midpoints, or whether two non-aspecting planets both are in-orb with an aspect to a third planet?

It's also possible that you attribute to Planet A character traits that are actually more associated with Planet B.

Do you want to post your chart?
 

lantlos

Member
Have you checked out your midpoints, or whether two non-aspecting planets both are in-orb with an aspect to a third planet?

It's also possible that you attribute to Planet A character traits that are actually more associated with Planet B.

Do you want to post your chart?

Yes, I do actually have a Mercury/Uranus midpoint that's activated by the North Node. I've never really considered the North Node as significant as the planets, though. But please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here is my chart (with the normal orbs):
https://imgur.com/a/kFOU6
 

waybread

Well-known member
Also, have you looked at parallels and counter-parallels? At Astrodienst where you got your chart, click on the "additional tables" link, and then look at the column labeled declination. These will be in degrees of longitude, north or south. Two planets at the same degree both north or south are parallel. This works like a conjunction. Two planets at the same degree, one north and one south are counter-parallel. This works like an opposition.

So yes, your Mars-Venus sextile is a little wide. But notice how the sextile between Venus and Mercury is exact, and the moon aspects all three (counting its bi-quintile to Venus.)

When you spend time with a chart you'll probably find some connections.
 

lantlos

Member
So yes, your Mars-Venus sextile is a little wide. But notice how the sextile between Venus and Mercury is exact, and the moon aspects all three (counting its bi-quintile to Venus.)

When you spend time with a chart you'll probably find some connections.

I've always thought that the planets connect through each other in so many different ways, that way being one of them. I remember asking about it a while back on the Astrodienst forum, and I felt like I was being a little dense doing so lol. But yeah, thanks for the information and thanks for your help.
 

Whoam1

Well-known member
In my chart I use three orbs for everything, this actually breaks apart a grand earth trine, but it makes more sense to me. My Strongest aspect is a Moon Pluto Square/Contraparallel, pretty strong Venus-Mars,Mars-Mercury, and Sun-Ac, and Moon-Saturn. I do use a wide orb in a stellium for example I have a 3 planet 2 astroied 11th house stellium that connects Pluto-Venus. For other funsises look at your Sun/Moon midpoint and AC/MC midpoint, when I look at those points along with the ruler of the sign that my AC Ruler is in, and the Sign that MC ruler is in, it all points to one sign. I call it an undercurrent
 

Claire19

Well-known member
Does anyone take into consideration aspects that are just out of accepted orb range? A "sextile" that is 6-7 degrees? A "square" or "trine" that is just over 9? Should we just ignore them? Would they have zero effect at all or just a weak smidgen of an effect? I've been thinking that they translate to overcompensation in relation to the qualities of the planets. For example, I almost had a Venus/Mars sextile, and I definitely notice that I care very much about being more of a social creature to the point where I can "act out" occasionally and it might not seem as genuine as the raw aspect. Anyway, what do you guys think?

In my view I would not use 9 degrees even with the Sun and Moon.
Sextiles no more than 4-5 and trines no more than 4-5. The placement of the planets and the signs they are in may give more weight. This orb of aspect issue is one that is always debated. I would say watch for transits and the effects. You will find that other aspects will show what you say about your traits.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
Yes, I do actually have a Mercury/Uranus midpoint that's activated by the North Node. I've never really considered the North Node as significant as the planets, though. But please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here is my chart (with the normal orbs):
https://imgur.com/a/kFOU6

I agree that the nodes are not be seen as like planets. They are placements or points and would use a much tighter orb. I in fact only look at conjunctions but others may disagree. I certainly never use them in transits. As for midpoints I dont look at them usually except for composite charts. I may be missing something and will research them.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
There are no universal rules when it comes to interpreting a chart. Some astrologers give great importance to factors that others don't even take into consideration. Some gain major insight from house placements in this or that house system, for example, while others don't even use houses at all.

The ancients said that an event or a personality trait is very probable if it is indicated in the chart in at least three different ways. I think that anything that is important in the life of the native will be implied in a thousand ways in their chart but we are all limited in what we can grasp, so spotting any three things that point towards the same direction seems like a good rule of thumb...

I agree that aspects and events need at least two indicators to be felt. A natal aspect, transits and progression all pointing to an event or influence will always manifest... Not thousands!!!. We only have a certain number of major aspects. I dont use minor aspects at all and no fixed stars or asteroids. There are basic principles of the science of astrology that have to be adhered to and can be very exact..... Those who experiment and want to use their own ideas will not be good at analysis or forecasting.

As for not using houses that is totally ridiculous. The chart is comprised of 12 and set in motion by the time of birth i.e. the ascendant. As for the house systems, they are up for debate and only transits being tracked for the right influence......Placidus and Equal are what I use mostly but lean towards Equal more these days.
 

lantlos

Member
I agree that aspects and events need at least two indicators to be felt. A natal aspect, transits and progression all pointing to an event or influence will always manifest... Not thousands!!!. We only have a certain number of major aspects. I dont use minor aspects at all and no fixed stars or asteroids. There are basic principles of the science of astrology that have to be adhered to and can be very exact..... Those who experiment and want to use their own ideas will not be good at analysis or forecasting.

As for not using houses that is totally ridiculous. The chart is comprised of 12 and set in motion by the time of birth i.e. the ascendant. As for the house systems, they are up for debate and only transits being tracked for the right influence......Placidus and Equal are what I use mostly but lean towards Equal more these days.

Claire, I think that's a pretty stringent way to see it all. Maybe you're right, though. However, it just makes sense to me for there to be a myriad of connections between the planets that influence us. I believe the energies of the planets radiate and intertwine and mix and match in a grand and complex fashion that we could comprehend only in our simple human way. I'm not very interested in or convinced by prognostication, but I think these ideas could only help with analysis. I think it's good to be broad-minded about astrology in that regard.

Also, that any of us edged out on specific aspects that occurred right before and after we were born is something to note, in my opinion. They may not be exact, but it's like a flame; you don't have to get engulfed in it to feel the heat. It is still palpable from a distance. That's how I see aspects like these. They may not be blazing, but they're not totally cold.

If I were born a day or two later, I'd have Venus sextile Mars. If I were born about three days earlier, I'd have Mercury square Uranus. I choose to think (perhaps in my deluded way) that I feel the energies of these aspects even though they're far from exact. They still occurred and existed in time, and right around when I happened to show up.
 
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Does anyone take into consideration aspects that are just out of accepted orb range? A "sextile" that is 6-7 degrees? A "square" or "trine" that is just over 9? Should we just ignore them? Would they have zero effect at all or just a weak smidgen of an effect? I've been thinking that they translate to overcompensation in relation to the qualities of the planets. For example, I almost had a Venus/Mars sextile, and I definitely notice that I care very much about being more of a social creature to the point where I can "act out" occasionally and it might not seem as genuine as the raw aspect. Anyway, what do you guys think?

Think of Balance and Polarity:
If there is an exact Trine and a Planet that is ,as you say 6-7deg. in between them. I see that to be a Sextile. Even Dane Rudyar confirmed this in charts and gave examples like FDR's Septile aspect and Einsteins chart if I remember correctly.
 
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