Theological Discussion (amongst other things)
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Awakened_Pisces
Well-known member
Re: **An Astrological Warning & Glad Tidings**
There have been many theories as to why we were created by god. I'll choose to believe the muslims theory. Is that God wanted to create beings and watch over them. And see that they become just as good as He himself. What God wants to see, above all else is a world of harmony and peace. He most certainly doesn't want to recommitt the acts of Noah's arc.
There have been many theories as to why we were created by god. I'll choose to believe the muslims theory. Is that God wanted to create beings and watch over them. And see that they become just as good as He himself. What God wants to see, above all else is a world of harmony and peace. He most certainly doesn't want to recommitt the acts of Noah's arc.
nejispirit
Well-known member
*laughs a bit* I see someone is angry at religion, for a reason? Or at least angry at God, yes?Confusedpisces said:
I am no super religious fanatic, mind you, but He forgives everyone if they only forgive themselves and who choose to *do the right thing for themselves, at that time*- God will follow you, protect you where ever you go, even if that means you are engaging in illegal activities or somehow making your life worse, He will be there to hold, protect and love you, comfort you of course (if you so choose to believe, mind you); He loves you and all of us in this world, unconditionally and no matter what- I personally do not believe in hell, and yes I call myself a Christian- but here on this Earth, we make our own hells.
If your work becomes a madhouse and a place of misery, "you have been sent to hell", if a vicious person comes into your life they may try to "make your life a living hell", if you are clinically depressed/have problems with anxiety, your life might already be a hell.
There are those out there who scoff at me for being a believer in God and a believer in Astrology, but I think the two go hand and hand, and personally for me, one cannot exist without the other.
And to whom in this thread do not believe in Him, that is your choice, but keep this in mind; in November of last year, I tried commiting suicide, fell 61 ft (6 stories) off a parking garage because a medicine made me suicidal- now how am I still here, still walking around/not paralyzed, still with enough wits to write this out and capacity to learn, and there are those who question that God saved me, that it just "happened to work out in your favor"?
Was I not saved from death because I am supposed to be here? And no, it was not merely luck, it was *God* who did this and *God* who saved me- I am here for a reason.
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Awakened_Pisces
Well-known member
Yeah, you can say I'm angry. My Mom will be deemed evil because the only evidence He gave her and other people is a mere book. A BOOK! I mean seriously. A Book. My Mom is an athiest. But she is the kindest, warmhearted person I have ever met. If it weren't for her. I seriously wouldn't be here. Everything else in life tempted me to give it all up. After all, for whom or what was my suffering for? But Mom was there and because of her, I had the strength to move forward. I cannot stand her being called evil if it turns out the only evidence he gave people was a book.
nejispirit
Well-known member
Confusedpisces said:
Ah, if you want to know my opinion on "that book"- it's really not a good way to try and categorize Christians by, sure it's nice and all, but I personally don't agree with some of it and see it more as literature than literal. That's how it *should* be interpreted and how a good majority of Christians see it, not to be taken as word for word.
Who called her evil exactly, a person or is it the mere idea, to you, that Christians will think of her as "evil" because she does not believe?
starlink
Well-known member
Confused Pisces,
Your logic here is a bit confusing. You say that the only evidence you mother got was a book and therefore she will be deemed evil. Sorry, I dont follow this one. If your mother does not believe, OK, than she does not believe. She apparently needs proof and that one book was not enough. This goes for many people. I dont think you mother is deemed evil because she is an atheist. She has her reasons NOT to believe and she is free to do so.
Personally, I also dont believe in a God like many want to describe, one who punishes when you dont believe in him. Both my grandfathers were men of the church, pastors. None of their children, 9 on each side mind you, are churchgoers. They might believe in God, they might not. Some people think that if someone does not go to church this person is a non-believer. Nothing is further from the truth.
I believe in the God within. I follow the Budhistic philosophy because that makes sense to me. It shows how you should treat everything around you, people, plants and animals with respect, not killing them, not thinking that they are inferior. I believe in forgiving and letting go, a great Budhistic exercise.I believe that there is a great universal power which I cannot describe, but I dont see this in the form of a man who's son died (that also is debatable) on the cross. I dont pray to a "person", instead I meditate and get in touch with this power that surrounds us. I dont believe God saves us, we have to save ourselves. How on earth can we expect God to look over all of us at the same time and trying to save us? We have to take care of ourselves. I believe in the spiritual world. I dont know if I can be called a Christian because I just cannot believe the whole Christ on the cross story. I think Christ was a very wise man, who happened to be in touch with the spiritual world and who could carry over the thoughts from there to us. He must have been very psychic. Therefore he was unusual.
Maybe your mother believed in something else, which can be just as good. In my opinion, being a good person, having respect for others, helping others, showing tolerance instead of attacking others, is all you need to be a good person, even if it is not a good Christian.
Starlink
Your logic here is a bit confusing. You say that the only evidence you mother got was a book and therefore she will be deemed evil. Sorry, I dont follow this one. If your mother does not believe, OK, than she does not believe. She apparently needs proof and that one book was not enough. This goes for many people. I dont think you mother is deemed evil because she is an atheist. She has her reasons NOT to believe and she is free to do so.
Personally, I also dont believe in a God like many want to describe, one who punishes when you dont believe in him. Both my grandfathers were men of the church, pastors. None of their children, 9 on each side mind you, are churchgoers. They might believe in God, they might not. Some people think that if someone does not go to church this person is a non-believer. Nothing is further from the truth.
I believe in the God within. I follow the Budhistic philosophy because that makes sense to me. It shows how you should treat everything around you, people, plants and animals with respect, not killing them, not thinking that they are inferior. I believe in forgiving and letting go, a great Budhistic exercise.I believe that there is a great universal power which I cannot describe, but I dont see this in the form of a man who's son died (that also is debatable) on the cross. I dont pray to a "person", instead I meditate and get in touch with this power that surrounds us. I dont believe God saves us, we have to save ourselves. How on earth can we expect God to look over all of us at the same time and trying to save us? We have to take care of ourselves. I believe in the spiritual world. I dont know if I can be called a Christian because I just cannot believe the whole Christ on the cross story. I think Christ was a very wise man, who happened to be in touch with the spiritual world and who could carry over the thoughts from there to us. He must have been very psychic. Therefore he was unusual.
Maybe your mother believed in something else, which can be just as good. In my opinion, being a good person, having respect for others, helping others, showing tolerance instead of attacking others, is all you need to be a good person, even if it is not a good Christian.
Starlink
I think that all of nature tends towards increasing entropy, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics )
....thingssss slowwwlyyyyyy breakkk k k i n g g g g d o w w w w n n n n n n n
becoming more disordered..
Maybe thats the best way to get the higher levels of us(our souls or whatever it is that is puppetmaster to these outer shells) to 'evolve' and grow....?
The question i wonder is...is there a spiritual parallel to this occurence or not? (increasing disorder/entropy/breakdown in the physical world... whatever) Because if there is, it would describe the 'fall' a little bit better
so....we're all just a big recycle project
Him wanting to make something new out of us?
....thingssss slowwwlyyyyyy breakkk k k i n g g g g d o w w w w n n n n n n n
becoming more disordered..
Maybe thats the best way to get the higher levels of us(our souls or whatever it is that is puppetmaster to these outer shells) to 'evolve' and grow....?
The question i wonder is...is there a spiritual parallel to this occurence or not? (increasing disorder/entropy/breakdown in the physical world... whatever) Because if there is, it would describe the 'fall' a little bit better
so....we're all just a big recycle project
Him wanting to make something new out of us?
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AineB
Well-known member
Well, ya guys caught me after watching Zeitgeist Addendum! LOL! So here's my take on spirituality...
I grew up with a Catholic mother and a Baptist father... The Catholic church didn't like that my mom married a Baptist, so out she went. :/ Not very Christian like if ya ask me! They divorced when I was 3 or 4... oops there goes more stuff against Catholicism! I went to both churches with grandparents.. and went through my own bible beating phase when I was about 8. Anyone else go to Good News after school?! LOL!! That phased out pretty quick though and by 10 was questioning EVERYTHING.. especially since for years I was plagued with psychic visions and whatnot, and mostly being told that it was in my head. But not so much in your head when you start knowing when people are going to die... Believe me, my family is extremely "odd" with paranormal experiences! It's about that time I picked up a book called "To Know" by Jade.. after that.. well, let's see my family pretty much told me I was a Satanist and was going to Hell for years.. Especially once things like Tarot cards and books on Wicca started popping up in my room. I pretty much kept to myself what I believed and hid everything.. oh the broomcloset days.. So at 12 I considered myself Wiccan, and was for about 8 years.
Anyways, kinda where I'm from.. Over the years I've done various research into a TON of different religions. Right now I call myself anything between a Pagan, Witch, Spiritualist... you get the picture. I believe Christ was a GREAT man and healer, but his love for humanity has been twisted into the distorted mess it is now. The Bible is touted as "the greatest story ever told"... HELLLLOOOOO.. S-T-O-R-Y!! It has been re-written numerous times by those wishing to control others. It is meant nothing more than to tell a story of history and give some advice.. basically love one another.. do good. However, most Christians take it to the extreme of having the one and only "true" way and the rest of us are just bound for hell.. whatever. Though there are some that are perfectly fine with others believing whatever they wish.. but they still think they're "right". So I don't think that'll really help the world when thoughts are energy. And then let's not get started on the rapists that suddenly "find God" or the ones that are in the church themself and aren't decent people.
When I was around 21.. I think.. it's been a while! I had a vision while doing laundry.. LOL! Yeah it's pretty humorous.. Anyways, in the vision, all the major religious figures were sitting around a big table and they could see everyone on Earth. And pretty much they were laughing at us and saying, they just don't get it.. we're all one.
Which is basically what I believe.. We're all one.. we're all just energy. Our physical bodies are meaningless. Everything we are blessed or plagued with is basically our own doing through the Law of Attraction and/or Karma. I mean, cmon.. I have a daughter with a rare epileptic condition.. NOT something I really want happening, but I understand it too and the good we are both doing through what we're dealing with. Thankfully, it's something she can "recover" from and it will happen when the time is right.
So yeah.. no one has the right way.. no one has the answers.. It's up to each individual person what they believe. Even if you lined up 4 Christians, 4 Buddhist, 4 Pagans, whatever.. their beliefs, while similar, will not still be exactly the same since every person has been brought up differently and has experienced life differently.
But that's just my take on it!!
I grew up with a Catholic mother and a Baptist father... The Catholic church didn't like that my mom married a Baptist, so out she went. :/ Not very Christian like if ya ask me! They divorced when I was 3 or 4... oops there goes more stuff against Catholicism! I went to both churches with grandparents.. and went through my own bible beating phase when I was about 8. Anyone else go to Good News after school?! LOL!! That phased out pretty quick though and by 10 was questioning EVERYTHING.. especially since for years I was plagued with psychic visions and whatnot, and mostly being told that it was in my head. But not so much in your head when you start knowing when people are going to die... Believe me, my family is extremely "odd" with paranormal experiences! It's about that time I picked up a book called "To Know" by Jade.. after that.. well, let's see my family pretty much told me I was a Satanist and was going to Hell for years.. Especially once things like Tarot cards and books on Wicca started popping up in my room. I pretty much kept to myself what I believed and hid everything.. oh the broomcloset days.. So at 12 I considered myself Wiccan, and was for about 8 years.
Anyways, kinda where I'm from.. Over the years I've done various research into a TON of different religions. Right now I call myself anything between a Pagan, Witch, Spiritualist... you get the picture. I believe Christ was a GREAT man and healer, but his love for humanity has been twisted into the distorted mess it is now. The Bible is touted as "the greatest story ever told"... HELLLLOOOOO.. S-T-O-R-Y!! It has been re-written numerous times by those wishing to control others. It is meant nothing more than to tell a story of history and give some advice.. basically love one another.. do good. However, most Christians take it to the extreme of having the one and only "true" way and the rest of us are just bound for hell.. whatever. Though there are some that are perfectly fine with others believing whatever they wish.. but they still think they're "right". So I don't think that'll really help the world when thoughts are energy. And then let's not get started on the rapists that suddenly "find God" or the ones that are in the church themself and aren't decent people.
When I was around 21.. I think.. it's been a while! I had a vision while doing laundry.. LOL! Yeah it's pretty humorous.. Anyways, in the vision, all the major religious figures were sitting around a big table and they could see everyone on Earth. And pretty much they were laughing at us and saying, they just don't get it.. we're all one.
Which is basically what I believe.. We're all one.. we're all just energy. Our physical bodies are meaningless. Everything we are blessed or plagued with is basically our own doing through the Law of Attraction and/or Karma. I mean, cmon.. I have a daughter with a rare epileptic condition.. NOT something I really want happening, but I understand it too and the good we are both doing through what we're dealing with. Thankfully, it's something she can "recover" from and it will happen when the time is right.
So yeah.. no one has the right way.. no one has the answers.. It's up to each individual person what they believe. Even if you lined up 4 Christians, 4 Buddhist, 4 Pagans, whatever.. their beliefs, while similar, will not still be exactly the same since every person has been brought up differently and has experienced life differently.
But that's just my take on it!!
rubyelixir
Well-known member
Re: **An Astrological Warning & Glad Tidings**
Theo, I respect your opinion very much but even you must agree that only one god is your personal belief. And when you reply in this manner , it does sound a bit like preaching.
I know that there are many who also believe this too Theo, but it is only a belief that is dictated by certain religions (namely Judeo/Christian faiths) The Egyptians, Mayans, Aztecs, Vikings and many other ancient cultures believed in many gods. The Greeks and Romans had a pantheon of gods and even named the Planets after them! Pagans, Native Peoples, African Tribes, Hindus and others still do today. This is one of the reasons that the practice of Astrology is condemned in many religions for it is seen as Pagan.
I for one believe there are many, and ALSO only one God. This might seem contradictory but all religions were written by men. I don't even think man has the ability to truly understand what God is. But to comfort ourselves we've created the many interpretations of a combination of our spiritual experiences (that are very difficult to even put into words) and our mundane life experience to give us some sort of guide to ease our suffering , our ignorance, and to understand our happiness & generally to explain LIFE. so did Man create God (or Gods) or did HE (SHE, THEM or IT) create us?
I believe the answer lies somewhere between All of the Above & Somewhere Over The Rainbow......
Theo said:
Theo, I respect your opinion very much but even you must agree that only one god is your personal belief. And when you reply in this manner , it does sound a bit like preaching.
I know that there are many who also believe this too Theo, but it is only a belief that is dictated by certain religions (namely Judeo/Christian faiths) The Egyptians, Mayans, Aztecs, Vikings and many other ancient cultures believed in many gods. The Greeks and Romans had a pantheon of gods and even named the Planets after them! Pagans, Native Peoples, African Tribes, Hindus and others still do today. This is one of the reasons that the practice of Astrology is condemned in many religions for it is seen as Pagan.
I for one believe there are many, and ALSO only one God. This might seem contradictory but all religions were written by men. I don't even think man has the ability to truly understand what God is. But to comfort ourselves we've created the many interpretations of a combination of our spiritual experiences (that are very difficult to even put into words) and our mundane life experience to give us some sort of guide to ease our suffering , our ignorance, and to understand our happiness & generally to explain LIFE. so did Man create God (or Gods) or did HE (SHE, THEM or IT) create us?
I believe the answer lies somewhere between All of the Above & Somewhere Over The Rainbow......
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Theo
Banned
Re: **An Astrological Warning & Glad Tidings**
Thank you Rubyelixir, and I respect yours as well.
Yes, it is my belief ~ that there is only ONE God. I'm not the only astrologer who knows this. Many people have their own opinions, yes, but that in no way means that it is true. This is one of the problems with Astrology too ~ the making up of all things, and this belief that everyone is right. No, not every is right. People may not like it, but it isn't for people to like.
God has many names ~ 72 at last count, throughout the world. In the Book of Enoch He is called the Lord of Spirits, or who is called Allah, Jehovah, Tetragrammanton, (Four Sides) etc., but this is still the ONE and ONLY God.
Just because the scriptures were written by Man, does not invalidate them at all. There are people on this forum who forecast and read astrological configurations, and they are people. Does that mean all of them are wrong because they are Men (and Women) as well?
I do not subscribe to the "everyone's view" is valid schlep. There are lots of people who have huge gaps in their own theological knowledge, and they should do more study and contemplation before expressing such views which are based more as a resentment of conventional religion than on theological history ~ especially of the hidden books privy to theologians and serious astrologers. Opinions are ok, but people are not entitled to their own facts. We cannot allow people to supplant what is known, even by hidden knowledge with such silliness which are really subjective expressions of religious oppression, or forcing conventional religion down the throats of others.
It is the responsibility of each and every one of us ~ especially as Astrologers ~ to know our history, and a GREAT history it is. We must never allow humanists and atheists to reduce the Sacred Science to a godless, and reductionist heap of yick-yack, no matter the sentiments hurt among them, or the opinions expressed and disguised as "knowledge."
Many of these people still hold the false calendar (along with the general public) Do they really think that September is the ninth month? The last time I checked as an astrologer, "Sept" means the 7th number, and October is the eighth month, with "Oct" meaning the number 8. See what I mean? What "appears" as opinion, and "normal" within the world is not ~ and yet people will swear that September is the ninth month and that October is the "tenth" month, when we astrologers know that the Astrological year begins in March and ends in February, which is the 12th month, of the 12th sign, which is Pisces.
There is much to learn about the theological origins of Astrology, and of the world itself before some go on about "there is no God" and all such malarky. Of course there is a God, as we can see a world of creation, and someone did create it. Dinner doesn't just cook itself, someone (a good cook) has to cook it, yes?
Look at the solar system, at the order of the Sun, Moon and planets, and you see regulation, and creation, there is order here. That does NOT happen by accident.
Anyone can have their own "version" of God, and it differs between cultures, and even from person to person. However, as a judicial astrologer, I say to all that there is only ONE God, and this God does not change. If a person believes or does not believe is up to them ~ however, I also say that there are consequences for this use of free will ~ which is what the battle between Light and Darkness is all about. It will not go on forever, as a clock is ticking... look at your charts of time, and the motions of the Sun and the revolving planets and Moons, and you will see a giant clock, and yes, it is ticking...
Here is a link to the Book of Enoch, look for the links that follow in sequence. There are several chapters. I posted three of them, you can continue onwards from there.
If you read, meditate on it, and follow it to the end you will greatly enhance your knowledge of Astrology and some may make quantum leaps in their astrological knowledge since Enoch was one of the first astrological scribes and a judicial astrologer. Hope it helps you along in your path... It did for me during my early studies of Astrology as a child.
See ~
CHAPTER ONE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX5SD_nntRA&feature=related
CHAPTER TWO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wfz_NdMjRk&feature=related
CHAPTER THREE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTus7iHKvEA&feature=related
rubyelixir said:
Thank you Rubyelixir, and I respect yours as well.
Yes, it is my belief ~ that there is only ONE God. I'm not the only astrologer who knows this. Many people have their own opinions, yes, but that in no way means that it is true. This is one of the problems with Astrology too ~ the making up of all things, and this belief that everyone is right. No, not every is right. People may not like it, but it isn't for people to like.
God has many names ~ 72 at last count, throughout the world. In the Book of Enoch He is called the Lord of Spirits, or who is called Allah, Jehovah, Tetragrammanton, (Four Sides) etc., but this is still the ONE and ONLY God.
Just because the scriptures were written by Man, does not invalidate them at all. There are people on this forum who forecast and read astrological configurations, and they are people. Does that mean all of them are wrong because they are Men (and Women) as well?
I do not subscribe to the "everyone's view" is valid schlep. There are lots of people who have huge gaps in their own theological knowledge, and they should do more study and contemplation before expressing such views which are based more as a resentment of conventional religion than on theological history ~ especially of the hidden books privy to theologians and serious astrologers. Opinions are ok, but people are not entitled to their own facts. We cannot allow people to supplant what is known, even by hidden knowledge with such silliness which are really subjective expressions of religious oppression, or forcing conventional religion down the throats of others.
It is the responsibility of each and every one of us ~ especially as Astrologers ~ to know our history, and a GREAT history it is. We must never allow humanists and atheists to reduce the Sacred Science to a godless, and reductionist heap of yick-yack, no matter the sentiments hurt among them, or the opinions expressed and disguised as "knowledge."
Many of these people still hold the false calendar (along with the general public) Do they really think that September is the ninth month? The last time I checked as an astrologer, "Sept" means the 7th number, and October is the eighth month, with "Oct" meaning the number 8. See what I mean? What "appears" as opinion, and "normal" within the world is not ~ and yet people will swear that September is the ninth month and that October is the "tenth" month, when we astrologers know that the Astrological year begins in March and ends in February, which is the 12th month, of the 12th sign, which is Pisces.
There is much to learn about the theological origins of Astrology, and of the world itself before some go on about "there is no God" and all such malarky. Of course there is a God, as we can see a world of creation, and someone did create it. Dinner doesn't just cook itself, someone (a good cook) has to cook it, yes?
Look at the solar system, at the order of the Sun, Moon and planets, and you see regulation, and creation, there is order here. That does NOT happen by accident.
Anyone can have their own "version" of God, and it differs between cultures, and even from person to person. However, as a judicial astrologer, I say to all that there is only ONE God, and this God does not change. If a person believes or does not believe is up to them ~ however, I also say that there are consequences for this use of free will ~ which is what the battle between Light and Darkness is all about. It will not go on forever, as a clock is ticking... look at your charts of time, and the motions of the Sun and the revolving planets and Moons, and you will see a giant clock, and yes, it is ticking...
Here is a link to the Book of Enoch, look for the links that follow in sequence. There are several chapters. I posted three of them, you can continue onwards from there.
If you read, meditate on it, and follow it to the end you will greatly enhance your knowledge of Astrology and some may make quantum leaps in their astrological knowledge since Enoch was one of the first astrological scribes and a judicial astrologer. Hope it helps you along in your path... It did for me during my early studies of Astrology as a child.
See ~
CHAPTER ONE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX5SD_nntRA&feature=related
CHAPTER TWO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wfz_NdMjRk&feature=related
CHAPTER THREE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTus7iHKvEA&feature=related
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rubyelixir
Well-known member
Re: **An Astrological Warning & Glad Tidings**
Hi Theo,
I think you misunderstood me. I did not mean that because something was written (or said) by man its not valid. I am only saying that it is subjective. It is a TRUTH if that is what you believe. It was also well documented and long held belief that the world was flat. Then, they were "right". We now know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that it is not flat. This is the due to times change, ideas change, science changes. But in the matter of Theology, God, spirituality and other such subjects, just because it makes sense to you and not someone else that does not make your belief the ONLY way. Holes could be poked in your Theory too. Because you are a "Judicial Astrologer" doesn't mean that other types of Astrology are invalid. Yes I understand what you say about some "astrologers" but do you not see that because Astrology is an ART & a Science & it is a open to interpretation?
Back to the God thing, what "fact" do you have? I mean Enoch was a person who lived in ancient times but was he there with the Neanderthals, the Dinosaurs? We have proof of them, did they "know" there was ONE GOD? Were they Punished if they were bad? Or is it that you believe in the Creation Theory, Adam & Eve and what not. I do not suppose you have a photo of yourself playing frisbee with or sitting down to dinner with GOD (who just whipped up the Lasagna) & discussing these matters. I apologize for being sarcastic here but seriously,there is no tangible "proof" of what you're talking about. Sorry but your insistance is kind of preposterous to impose on everyone. It could be just like "Horton Hears a Who" and we live on the tip of a dandelion & Horton is like God. But in the story, Horton however is tangible to them, they can see him & converse with him literally, not just theoretically. But then again Horton could be living on his own Dandelion held by yet another "being". & On & On........
So, no I do not go by "Everyone's Opinion is valid" as my creedo (& BTW I am of Russian Jewish heritage & the yiddish word "schlep" means to lug something heavy around, literally, it is not the right word for what you are saying although i get what you mean) Personally I think everything is circular, cyclical. Good cannot exist without bad, cause & affect, yin yang, etc etc Astrology is too.
So lets say we DO, All Of US, see & talk to GOD, take a picture with him at Disneyland, etc. etc. etc. & KNOW beyond the shadow of a doubt that HE exists. But then suppose....just suppose.....that he is just ONE of another group, that is assigned to another universe etc etc ? What if our entire Universe is just a spec? Its quite mindboggling to me & I for one think that we are not advanced yet to really grasp that truth. We live in only 3 dimensions yet I sense there are others. Can I be sure? Do I know for a fact? No.
And what I find sort of ironic is that the link you posted on "The Esoteric Agenda 2008" supports this also. Did you realize that you are contradicting your own link when you are talking about time. In it, they talk about the fallacy of what we know as time, that the "Clock" as we know it today was created by a Pope, for political purposes & that there needs to be a return to "natural time". I don't completely accept everything on that film but it is definitely thought provoking.There was this segment on fractiles & their relationship to Atoms, DNA etc. Its all INFINITE. Math might as well be GOD because everything breaks down to that. The idea of Infinity is Mathematic (Astrology too) & I think that understanding the concept of Infinity is really the closest we can come to knowing what God is.
I am not saying you are WRONG because you have no proof & I am RIGHT, I just think that if it helps YOU to understand life, Astrology, yourself, your clients, whatever that there is ONE GOD & you know that for a fact, so be it for you (as a Judicial Astrologer I might add). Well then for me, as much as I respect your Astrological opinions, you might as well say "the earth is flat."
For me, it just goes beyond our present comprehension to be so definitive. I prefer to have an open mind when it comes to matters of this sort. I reserve judgement. I learned from many types of Astrology, Jungian & psychological Humanistic ressonates most for me, yet I can accept your opinions and see what is TRUTH for me.
I still completely admire you as an Astrologer, Theo and I hope that you can continue to leave your excellent, Astrological commentary.
Theo said:
Hi Theo,
I think you misunderstood me. I did not mean that because something was written (or said) by man its not valid. I am only saying that it is subjective. It is a TRUTH if that is what you believe. It was also well documented and long held belief that the world was flat. Then, they were "right". We now know, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that it is not flat. This is the due to times change, ideas change, science changes. But in the matter of Theology, God, spirituality and other such subjects, just because it makes sense to you and not someone else that does not make your belief the ONLY way. Holes could be poked in your Theory too. Because you are a "Judicial Astrologer" doesn't mean that other types of Astrology are invalid. Yes I understand what you say about some "astrologers" but do you not see that because Astrology is an ART & a Science & it is a open to interpretation?
Back to the God thing, what "fact" do you have? I mean Enoch was a person who lived in ancient times but was he there with the Neanderthals, the Dinosaurs? We have proof of them, did they "know" there was ONE GOD? Were they Punished if they were bad? Or is it that you believe in the Creation Theory, Adam & Eve and what not. I do not suppose you have a photo of yourself playing frisbee with or sitting down to dinner with GOD (who just whipped up the Lasagna) & discussing these matters. I apologize for being sarcastic here but seriously,there is no tangible "proof" of what you're talking about. Sorry but your insistance is kind of preposterous to impose on everyone. It could be just like "Horton Hears a Who" and we live on the tip of a dandelion & Horton is like God. But in the story, Horton however is tangible to them, they can see him & converse with him literally, not just theoretically. But then again Horton could be living on his own Dandelion held by yet another "being". & On & On........
So, no I do not go by "Everyone's Opinion is valid" as my creedo (& BTW I am of Russian Jewish heritage & the yiddish word "schlep" means to lug something heavy around, literally, it is not the right word for what you are saying although i get what you mean) Personally I think everything is circular, cyclical. Good cannot exist without bad, cause & affect, yin yang, etc etc Astrology is too.
So lets say we DO, All Of US, see & talk to GOD, take a picture with him at Disneyland, etc. etc. etc. & KNOW beyond the shadow of a doubt that HE exists. But then suppose....just suppose.....that he is just ONE of another group, that is assigned to another universe etc etc ? What if our entire Universe is just a spec? Its quite mindboggling to me & I for one think that we are not advanced yet to really grasp that truth. We live in only 3 dimensions yet I sense there are others. Can I be sure? Do I know for a fact? No.
And what I find sort of ironic is that the link you posted on "The Esoteric Agenda 2008" supports this also. Did you realize that you are contradicting your own link when you are talking about time. In it, they talk about the fallacy of what we know as time, that the "Clock" as we know it today was created by a Pope, for political purposes & that there needs to be a return to "natural time". I don't completely accept everything on that film but it is definitely thought provoking.There was this segment on fractiles & their relationship to Atoms, DNA etc. Its all INFINITE. Math might as well be GOD because everything breaks down to that. The idea of Infinity is Mathematic (Astrology too) & I think that understanding the concept of Infinity is really the closest we can come to knowing what God is.
I am not saying you are WRONG because you have no proof & I am RIGHT, I just think that if it helps YOU to understand life, Astrology, yourself, your clients, whatever that there is ONE GOD & you know that for a fact, so be it for you (as a Judicial Astrologer I might add). Well then for me, as much as I respect your Astrological opinions, you might as well say "the earth is flat."
For me, it just goes beyond our present comprehension to be so definitive. I prefer to have an open mind when it comes to matters of this sort. I reserve judgement. I learned from many types of Astrology, Jungian & psychological Humanistic ressonates most for me, yet I can accept your opinions and see what is TRUTH for me.
I still completely admire you as an Astrologer, Theo and I hope that you can continue to leave your excellent, Astrological commentary.
EJ53
Banned
Re: **An Astrological Warning & Glad Tidings**
Then let's not fight it. Now is a time to accept that what will be will be - to conserve our energy for the re-building.
Can the rational mind ever be an open mind? What if the Creator is Mind, with Souls as "experience-seeking" infinitesimal parts of that Mind given free will through rational minds that give the illusion of separation/individual consciousness. Then, a rational/conscious mind that is truly open would connect us (through the Soul) to the Creator/Mind - where we'd "know" the truth without thinking. But, at that point, is the rational/conscious mind redundant - or does it become the mechanism through which we/Mind co-create "heaven on earth"?
Maybe becoming willing co-creators was always God's purpose for us, as the possession of a physical body enables us to build things faster than Mind can.
I accept this as true, but see God as the Creator which (in the beginning) exploded from unconsciousness/darkness into self-awareness/light - and see no reason why co-creator gods could not have subsequently evolved, with one or more creating our Universe/Earth as an experimental freewill zone. For me, having "no other gods before me" actually implies more than one god but only one Creator - I AM (He who became conscious/self-aware.)
Some things will never change, however much we debate them.
EJ
Confusedpisces said:
Then let's not fight it. Now is a time to accept that what will be will be - to conserve our energy for the re-building.
Rubyelixir said:
Can the rational mind ever be an open mind? What if the Creator is Mind, with Souls as "experience-seeking" infinitesimal parts of that Mind given free will through rational minds that give the illusion of separation/individual consciousness. Then, a rational/conscious mind that is truly open would connect us (through the Soul) to the Creator/Mind - where we'd "know" the truth without thinking. But, at that point, is the rational/conscious mind redundant - or does it become the mechanism through which we/Mind co-create "heaven on earth"?
Maybe becoming willing co-creators was always God's purpose for us, as the possession of a physical body enables us to build things faster than Mind can.
Theo said:
I accept this as true, but see God as the Creator which (in the beginning) exploded from unconsciousness/darkness into self-awareness/light - and see no reason why co-creator gods could not have subsequently evolved, with one or more creating our Universe/Earth as an experimental freewill zone. For me, having "no other gods before me" actually implies more than one god but only one Creator - I AM (He who became conscious/self-aware.)
EJ53 said:
Some things will never change, however much we debate them.
EJ
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starlink
Well-known member
Re: **An Astrological Warning & Glad Tidings**
This is interesting. I believe in "the God within" as you might have read. In other words, we all are our own God in a way. That's why I always solve my own problems instead of praying to God and asking for help. I meditate and "pray" to myself to give me the courage to solve my problem.
All the "other Gods" are other different parts within us. We have anger in us, represented by Mars and Mars was made into "the God of war". We have the capacity for love within us, represented by Venus, so the ancients made Venus into the God of Love, we have our mind and the ideas we want to proclaim and bring over to others, so Hermes=Mercury was created as the God of communication, transmitting messages. Those, in my opinion, are the other Gods , but as we are "One", and as our chart also should be seen as one integration of all those small parts (Gods), you get one big God.
This is how I personally see it. By praying (meditating) to these different Gods,which is done in many different cultures/religions, we enhance our inner different parts.
There was a question why God, who is supposed to be so kind, takes away what he gives, like a child, a teenager, a beloved pet.
I believe in re-incarnation and that we come back to earth to deal with issues we did not resolve or lessons we did not master in a former life.
Sometimes lessons are given to us in the form of something dear, and taken away again, in order to teach us appreciation. As we all know, we often start appreciating something after we loose it.
Therefore, whatever happens to me (us), always happens for a reason, even though at that moment, we do not understand it or find it very cruel. It is just another lesson in order to evolve the soul.
She tells me that astrology is evil and I will be punished by God for believing in Astrology. I have a hard time explaining to her that there is believing and believing. I believe that Astrology works, I dont use it as a religion. She somehow cant see this. Buddhism, or any other form of religion/believe does not come into the equation for her.
I keep on telling her that Christianity is supposed to preach tolerance amongst other things.Forcing people to believe is not tolerant. The "holy" wars were a sign of great intolerance.
Starlink
This is interesting. I believe in "the God within" as you might have read. In other words, we all are our own God in a way. That's why I always solve my own problems instead of praying to God and asking for help. I meditate and "pray" to myself to give me the courage to solve my problem.
All the "other Gods" are other different parts within us. We have anger in us, represented by Mars and Mars was made into "the God of war". We have the capacity for love within us, represented by Venus, so the ancients made Venus into the God of Love, we have our mind and the ideas we want to proclaim and bring over to others, so Hermes=Mercury was created as the God of communication, transmitting messages. Those, in my opinion, are the other Gods , but as we are "One", and as our chart also should be seen as one integration of all those small parts (Gods), you get one big God.
This is how I personally see it. By praying (meditating) to these different Gods,which is done in many different cultures/religions, we enhance our inner different parts.
There was a question why God, who is supposed to be so kind, takes away what he gives, like a child, a teenager, a beloved pet.
I believe in re-incarnation and that we come back to earth to deal with issues we did not resolve or lessons we did not master in a former life.
Sometimes lessons are given to us in the form of something dear, and taken away again, in order to teach us appreciation. As we all know, we often start appreciating something after we loose it.
Therefore, whatever happens to me (us), always happens for a reason, even though at that moment, we do not understand it or find it very cruel. It is just another lesson in order to evolve the soul.
I keep on saying this to my own sister who is fanatically trying to convert anyone she meets to how she believes and how one should believe.
She tells me that astrology is evil and I will be punished by God for believing in Astrology. I have a hard time explaining to her that there is believing and believing. I believe that Astrology works, I dont use it as a religion. She somehow cant see this. Buddhism, or any other form of religion/believe does not come into the equation for her.
I keep on telling her that Christianity is supposed to preach tolerance amongst other things.Forcing people to believe is not tolerant. The "holy" wars were a sign of great intolerance.
Starlink
funkspunky
Banned
Re: **An Astrological Warning & Glad Tidings**
Starlink, would you say the current "holy" war is still a sign of great intolerance?
Theo
Banned
Re: **An Astrological Warning & Glad Tidings**
Thanks. However, I think I did understand you Rubyexlir. We live in a time where nearly everything is treated as "subjective." I don't buy into that. There are principles and many things that are not subjective, so everything is not subject to what anoyone's opinion may be. It is one of the reasons why the world is in the mess that it is in right now ~ and, if the prophecies are to be believed ~ it's going to get worse.
Principles cannot be broken, if they could, then they would not be principles. This is one of the problems with astrological practice today, as if almost "anything goes" ~ and anything does NOT go.
As for the "God thing" as you put it, I suggest that the proof of God is all around us, in the world, and in the heavens and the Sun, Moon and the planets. I am constantly surprised by people who "look" for God but cannot see what is all around them that is created. It is quite obvious. Asking for "proof" of God is like asking for "proof" of the existance of Love. Now, we all know that love exists, yes? Yet, how would you prove it?
You write of "facts" as if they are only material things. yet, love is not material, is it? Are feelings material? We know they exist, but how would you "prove" that this is so factually in the context that you use the same work "facts?" Under your use of the word "fact" there is no such thing as a personality, or a spirit. Yet, would you deny that you have one because it is not a material fact that can be proved? Do you understand? This is the basis of metaphysics. We know that the things we cannot touch DO indeed exist because we know that there is more to life than just what is material. You cannot touch mathematics, yet, we all know that mathematics does exist.
As for Enoch. I suggest that you perhaps take more time to read intently as this was the very first book of Scripture, which survived the Great Flood and predates the Bible. Enoch's book is a special one for astrologers, and contains much information. However, in these days, it is hard to assess what level others are on, since many have serious gaps in their astrological learning; especially when it comes to theology ~ which is central to Astrology, and always have been from the start. This is why Enoch's book is so important.
There is also a great misconception of conventional religion, which many reject because of the political implications, and the cultural differences that has seperated religion into divisions. I do not subscribe to this, as I find it very derisive of the true history of astrology and religion in general. There's been enough to seperate humanity from its origins.
Most people, as I've pointed out, don't even know how to arrange the months of the year in proper order, and so, in my view, have some basics to get to first before they can then elaborate on the meaning of life, and on God itself. The Julian calendar is false, however, I think you misunderstood the meaning of what constitutes "time" in the links. I suggest rather than assume what I meant, that you simply ask. One cannot do algebra before learning addition, subtraction, etc. Steps should be taken in order so as to not have large gaps left unfilled with knowledge. It is quite common in our post-modern times for many to fill their gaps with personal opinion based not on the depth of acquired knowledge, but resentment and anger from the effects of their experiences with conventional religion.
As for "dimensions" there are people who think and see in more than three ~ especially astrologers, clairvoyants, and psychics. It is important to remember, considering your comments, that you are a bit all over the place here, and should perhaps slow down, and take in what has been written, study on this, and then rather than add opinion, add to your knowledge base first to see how the threads connect throughout history.
This is something that many people who study astrology fail to do: especially when it comes to theology as it pertains to astrology, its history, and those who practiced it, Nearly every prophet known to humanity was an astrologer, and there is a reason for this, as astrology is one of only two ways known to us to hear the language of God ~ the astronomic clouds cleared for those who are able to read by the planets and stars.
The other method is direct, such as what happened to Enoch, Moses, and Joan of Arc, divine contact with the Deity. This was explained by Nostradamus, who noted that these were the only two ways of direct communication with God Himself, who is hidden behind a veil, according to many ancient scriptures.
rubyelixir said:
Thanks. However, I think I did understand you Rubyexlir. We live in a time where nearly everything is treated as "subjective." I don't buy into that. There are principles and many things that are not subjective, so everything is not subject to what anoyone's opinion may be. It is one of the reasons why the world is in the mess that it is in right now ~ and, if the prophecies are to be believed ~ it's going to get worse.
Principles cannot be broken, if they could, then they would not be principles. This is one of the problems with astrological practice today, as if almost "anything goes" ~ and anything does NOT go.
As for the "God thing" as you put it, I suggest that the proof of God is all around us, in the world, and in the heavens and the Sun, Moon and the planets. I am constantly surprised by people who "look" for God but cannot see what is all around them that is created. It is quite obvious. Asking for "proof" of God is like asking for "proof" of the existance of Love. Now, we all know that love exists, yes? Yet, how would you prove it?
You write of "facts" as if they are only material things. yet, love is not material, is it? Are feelings material? We know they exist, but how would you "prove" that this is so factually in the context that you use the same work "facts?" Under your use of the word "fact" there is no such thing as a personality, or a spirit. Yet, would you deny that you have one because it is not a material fact that can be proved? Do you understand? This is the basis of metaphysics. We know that the things we cannot touch DO indeed exist because we know that there is more to life than just what is material. You cannot touch mathematics, yet, we all know that mathematics does exist.
As for Enoch. I suggest that you perhaps take more time to read intently as this was the very first book of Scripture, which survived the Great Flood and predates the Bible. Enoch's book is a special one for astrologers, and contains much information. However, in these days, it is hard to assess what level others are on, since many have serious gaps in their astrological learning; especially when it comes to theology ~ which is central to Astrology, and always have been from the start. This is why Enoch's book is so important.
There is also a great misconception of conventional religion, which many reject because of the political implications, and the cultural differences that has seperated religion into divisions. I do not subscribe to this, as I find it very derisive of the true history of astrology and religion in general. There's been enough to seperate humanity from its origins.
Most people, as I've pointed out, don't even know how to arrange the months of the year in proper order, and so, in my view, have some basics to get to first before they can then elaborate on the meaning of life, and on God itself. The Julian calendar is false, however, I think you misunderstood the meaning of what constitutes "time" in the links. I suggest rather than assume what I meant, that you simply ask. One cannot do algebra before learning addition, subtraction, etc. Steps should be taken in order so as to not have large gaps left unfilled with knowledge. It is quite common in our post-modern times for many to fill their gaps with personal opinion based not on the depth of acquired knowledge, but resentment and anger from the effects of their experiences with conventional religion.
As for "dimensions" there are people who think and see in more than three ~ especially astrologers, clairvoyants, and psychics. It is important to remember, considering your comments, that you are a bit all over the place here, and should perhaps slow down, and take in what has been written, study on this, and then rather than add opinion, add to your knowledge base first to see how the threads connect throughout history.
This is something that many people who study astrology fail to do: especially when it comes to theology as it pertains to astrology, its history, and those who practiced it, Nearly every prophet known to humanity was an astrologer, and there is a reason for this, as astrology is one of only two ways known to us to hear the language of God ~ the astronomic clouds cleared for those who are able to read by the planets and stars.
The other method is direct, such as what happened to Enoch, Moses, and Joan of Arc, divine contact with the Deity. This was explained by Nostradamus, who noted that these were the only two ways of direct communication with God Himself, who is hidden behind a veil, according to many ancient scriptures.
Everybody has to believe in something.
I believe I'll have another drink...
But seriously, I'm on cola tonite. Full moon is entertaining enough for me.
I think the planetary phenomena we come across, and its correlation to human activity, invites us to question how that could be, begs us to ask questions about Source. My conclusions so far: We are One and It is All Good. Anything to the contrary is illusion, which having free will, we are able to create.
I believe I'll have another drink...
But seriously, I'm on cola tonite. Full moon is entertaining enough for me.
I think the planetary phenomena we come across, and its correlation to human activity, invites us to question how that could be, begs us to ask questions about Source. My conclusions so far: We are One and It is All Good. Anything to the contrary is illusion, which having free will, we are able to create.
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rubyelixir
Well-known member
Re: **An Astrological Warning & Glad Tidings**
Wow I disagree with most of what you said about me. The only thing i did say you said (or put in your mouth) was that you were Cap rising. Sorry if I was wrong on that. Well the words in "" marks were yours also which I used to answer you. I am NOT "eclipsing" nor am I "discounting" anything. If thats the way you interpretated my comments I am sorry but that was NOT at all my intention. And No, I do not think that REAL Love is conditional, when it is it is not Love but something else. Also, a majority of what you said doesn't even apply to me or anything I wrote so who is "projecting" now? Since you feel you cannot separate THE ONE GOD , THE CREATOR from Astrology and according to you in order to even be able to understand astrology I MUST (And everyone else MUST) acknowledge that "fact". Well then I realize that you do not have any respect for my astrological voice as it is not based on your concept of GOD. Yes, I acknowledge your opinion. I don't discount it as a possibility, but I protest your insistance that I accept that as my belief in order to know Astrology. I respect you even though I do not think the same way as you I and I recognize the merit in your astrological interpretations. Again my background in astrology is not Judicial, although I have studied it a bit. As I said my focus has been psychological & humanistic. I think the fundamental problem here is that I see the reading of a chart as an interpretive Art. My concept of "GOD" differs from yours and I believe that we are GOD as much as anything else is God. Furthermore, I disagree with you that Astrology is a belief. To me Astrology is a language used to traverse & communicate a part of existence that could never be understood easily without it. To me it is like a roadmap, a travel guide & ultimately for me, a language. This is the answer I generally give those who say they do not "believe" in Astrology. Then I ask, Do you believe in English or Spanish or Chinese? It is not to believe or disbelieve.To me Astrology communicates that which is usually just lived through and gives us a chance to stop by the roadside and take a look at the Map, the Big Picture. And I do not deny that spirituality is a part of it. My spirituality just differs from yours. My spirituality IS my beliefs. And Astrology is the language we can use to talk about it.
I think in this we can agree, there is miscommunication and misunderstanding between our opinions, you are turning my words around as you feel I am doing likewise. Mercury is retrograde & I think the Aries full moon is making it easy to flare up. I feel like I am going around in circles with this conversation with you and it is going nowhere fast.
BOTTOM LINE: This is a very sensitive subject that I no longer wish to debate.
Theo said:
Wow I disagree with most of what you said about me. The only thing i did say you said (or put in your mouth) was that you were Cap rising. Sorry if I was wrong on that. Well the words in "" marks were yours also which I used to answer you. I am NOT "eclipsing" nor am I "discounting" anything. If thats the way you interpretated my comments I am sorry but that was NOT at all my intention. And No, I do not think that REAL Love is conditional, when it is it is not Love but something else. Also, a majority of what you said doesn't even apply to me or anything I wrote so who is "projecting" now? Since you feel you cannot separate THE ONE GOD , THE CREATOR from Astrology and according to you in order to even be able to understand astrology I MUST (And everyone else MUST) acknowledge that "fact". Well then I realize that you do not have any respect for my astrological voice as it is not based on your concept of GOD. Yes, I acknowledge your opinion. I don't discount it as a possibility, but I protest your insistance that I accept that as my belief in order to know Astrology. I respect you even though I do not think the same way as you I and I recognize the merit in your astrological interpretations. Again my background in astrology is not Judicial, although I have studied it a bit. As I said my focus has been psychological & humanistic. I think the fundamental problem here is that I see the reading of a chart as an interpretive Art. My concept of "GOD" differs from yours and I believe that we are GOD as much as anything else is God. Furthermore, I disagree with you that Astrology is a belief. To me Astrology is a language used to traverse & communicate a part of existence that could never be understood easily without it. To me it is like a roadmap, a travel guide & ultimately for me, a language. This is the answer I generally give those who say they do not "believe" in Astrology. Then I ask, Do you believe in English or Spanish or Chinese? It is not to believe or disbelieve.To me Astrology communicates that which is usually just lived through and gives us a chance to stop by the roadside and take a look at the Map, the Big Picture. And I do not deny that spirituality is a part of it. My spirituality just differs from yours. My spirituality IS my beliefs. And Astrology is the language we can use to talk about it.
I think in this we can agree, there is miscommunication and misunderstanding between our opinions, you are turning my words around as you feel I am doing likewise. Mercury is retrograde & I think the Aries full moon is making it easy to flare up. I feel like I am going around in circles with this conversation with you and it is going nowhere fast.
BOTTOM LINE: This is a very sensitive subject that I no longer wish to debate.
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