Rectification - Should I use 'Solar Arcs' or 'Primary Directions'?

In rectifying one's birth I've read that Solar Arcs are used to time events that have occured.

But then - I read somewhere else that Primary Directions are used.

At first I thought these were the same thing.
Then I calculated both on astro.com and found that many of the dates given, in both reports, between the same planets are different.

Examples of different dates:
so...am I going to be 'erratic' and 'unpredictable' in 2015 ...or in 2018?
is my MC going to benefit from Venus in 2012 ...or in 2018?
...and will my ego get 'whacked' in 2028 ...or in 2036?
or can I expect something to occur around both dates?
And last - but MOST importantly -
I have Pluto/Node conjunct 4 degrees from my Dec in the 6th house and, according to Solar Arc, it would have opposed my Asc when I was 4. But our family moved with 5 kids from Ohio to Texas when I was 6, (major transformation) which leads me to think my Asc is wrong by 2 degrees. But then, ...I was burned severely, twice before the age of 5 - so pluto opposing my asc could have been the two times I was hospitalized.



....thought I had this 'rectification' stuff down........aghhhhh


thanks for helping, jill


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alright......those aren't quite the answers I was looking for. Would anyone else like to comment?
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1) I have many doubts about birth time rectification methods, and I do not follow them

2) Primary directions are too tough for my little brain, and, on top of that, I doubt their accuracy (from results I have seen by many of those who do use them) in comparison to solar arc, simple symbolic progression or Pauline profections-especially a combination of simple symbolic progression plus Pauline profection (no offense meant, just my experience)

3) between the two methods the OP mentioned I would choose solar arc for predicting events (can't recommend primary directions or solar arc for rectification because I never have felt the need to rectify, EXCEPT for correcting the time for LAT-ie, Sun/Cosmic time over man-made civil standard time)

Solar arcs are really simple, especially for beginners, just move the Angles, Asc, Desc, MC, IC 1' for each year of your life onto planets and vice versa. Not just used for rectification either. Under age 12 though these interpretations are directed towards family changes, maybe relocation, job changes, illnesses, additions to family etc.....

Further research on solar arcs try these threads.
Solar arcs are really simple, especially for beginners, just move the Angles, Asc, Desc, MC, IC 1' for each year of your life onto planets and vice versa. Not just used for rectification either. Under age 12 though these interpretations are directed towards family changes, maybe relocation, job changes, illnesses, additions to family etc.....

Further research on solar arcs try these threads.
http://www.kepler.edu/videos/0902SolarArc/Stathis_SolarArc_Feb09.pdf
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12024&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12958&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6691&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/rectification.html
http://www.frankstar.com/solararc.htm
http://thezodiac.com/arcs.htm
http://www.donmc.com/Comparing%20Transits%20and%20Solar%20Arcs%20II.htm
http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/solar_arc_directions.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression
http://www.bernadettebrady.com/Pdfs/...tification.pdf
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12024&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12958&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6691&highlight=solar+arcs
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/rectification.html
http://www.frankstar.com/solararc.htm
http://thezodiac.com/arcs.htm
http://www.donmc.com/Comparing%20Transits%20and%20Solar%20Arcs%20II.htm
http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/solar_arc_directions.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression
http://www.bernadettebrady.com/Pdfs/...tification.pdf

Rectification of birth time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KW0G2S2Ti4I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYMX9X2C1BQ&NR=1
· Transiting Pluto square, conj opp Asc, Desc, MC, IC
· If under 12’ when it conj an Angle then their age was under age 12 it’s parents adjustments. A death, change within father’s work, a separation, remarriage.
· Adults or teens, 1st job, identity transformation MC.
· Pluto conj Desc = death, health concerns, geographic, significant relationship or break up, but has to be ‘life transforming’
· Also try transiting Neptune, something dissolving, disappearing, confusing etc.
· Timings of transits… is it the 1st hit? More often it’s the middle retrograde hit… but could be the last direct hit also. 1’ =4minutes in time.

May I suggest you read the 'welcome to the world of astrology’ and other ---sticky' at the top of this forum? It has some great explanations, links etc. At the top of every forum there are lots of ‘stickys’ which explain matters in that forum, along with guidelines & tips

There is a 'plethora' of information on AW, espec in the 'stickys' at the top of every forum, our Education forum and Recommendations forum to. Plus we have a good search feature,[but not foolproof obviously, so try here first] bit like google using keywords – initially select advanced and try just selecting 'titles' rather than posts or you'll get too many threads. If this doesn’t get results then try google

I don't use primary directions either. Now there are plenty of threads on AW discussing chart rectifications and we have a specialist on here called Kannon with does this professionally.

Suggested reading,Primary Directions by Martin Gansten.ISBN9781902405391.
Free Software,Morinus by Robert Nagy,pymorinus.extra.hu.

These sources may help you with some of your questions.

J.R.R.

Re: Rectification - FREE Primary Direction pdf's online

jill said:

alright......those aren't quite the answers I was looking for. Would anyone else like to comment?.

Click to expand...

link to article "An Easy Introduction To Primary Directions" by Deborah Houlding at http://www.skyscript.co.uk/directions.html This easy introduction to primary directions uses visuals and step-by-step instructions, to show beginners how to recreate the primary direction aspect which John Gadbury claimed was responsible for the prediction of the king's death.

comment posted by cor scorpii, 25-Sep-2009 12:54
"I've finally found a comprehensible representation of primary directions...for someone like me, who abhors maths, and doesn't have the means to obtain Martin's book this article is of tremendous help in an attempt to grasp them. I've stumbled upon a few articles on primaries on the net; but neither has been presented in such a manner as to allow for a relatively quick learning(well, of course, nobody said it would be easy in the first place)........."

As well as that, the next link is to the online pdf of the now out of print book "Primary Directions - A Primer of Calculation" by Bob Makransky the site states: Primary Directions is presently out of print in book form. You can download a PDF version of it for free by clicking on the buttons below (since it is a large file, it has been divided into 3 parts for convenience in downloading): http://www.dearbrutus.com/buyprimarydirections.html

next link is to another article "What are Primary Directions?" written by Rumen Kolev an astrologer who practices ancient Babylonian Astrology... Rumen advises that In authentic primary directions, we note the natal position of a point as relative to the birth horizon and meridian. Then we observe how much time is required for this point, carried with the motion of the celestial sphere, to reach a new position. This second position of the point has to satisfy certain conditions depending on the kind of direction we calculate. http://www.babylonianastrology.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=1


A major division of the primaries is that of MUNDO and ZODIACAL directions. The mundo are calculated with the bodies of the planets or their mundo aspects. The mundo aspects are points on the diurnal path of the planet that are a certain number of house-distance away from the planet.

The zodiacal directions are calculated with the zodiacal aspects of the planets.

The mundo directions are much stronger. If we compute mundo directions of planets to the horizon and the meridian, then we have to see how many minutes and seconds after the birth the planets in question will rise, set, culminate or reach lower culmination

Morinus has been recommended here before on 5-10-2010 A50,see post by Eternalautumn,Recommendations Astrology Software,also check out skyscript,where both parties post and perhaps would be willing to answer any questions regarding this prog.Try sites.google.com /site/pymorinus.

J.

JerryRR said:

Morinus has been recommended here before on 5-10-2010 A50,see post by Eternalautumn,Recommendations Astrology Software,also check out skyscript,where both parties post and perhaps would be willing to answer any questions regarding this prog.Try sites.google.com /site/pymorinus.

J.

Click to expand...

http://sites.google.com/site/pymorinus/

Re: Rectification - FREE Primary Direction pdf's online

Jill, I would suggest you start by:

(a) nailing down some major events in your life. It looks like you've done some of this already! These wouldn't be ones that everyone of your age would experience more or less similtaneously (like a high school graduation) but something unique to you, like a sudden injury or onset of an illness, a move, something like parents' divorcing, meeting somebody who made a huge impact on you, etc.

(b) You could even construct this like a workbook. With these big events, then think through what might be the astrological symbolism associated with them. For example, Uranus changing houses could indicate sudden change; or Neptune might be associated with a poorly diagnosed illness. Something to do with your parents might show up with your moon, or 4th-10th house axis, &c.

(c) Then try all of the different techniques at your disposal, to see which ones match up the best: primary directions, transits, solar arcs, eclipses, secondary progressions, and tertiary progressions. You can get transits and progressions off the free charts pp. at Astrodienst.

Rectifying a birth chart is not easy. Sometimes solar arcs work, but sometimes they don't. Sometimes transits tell the story, but sometimes they don't. I think the best you can do is pile on the methods, and recognize that, say, a transit might describe a bad split-up whereas a tertiary progression might better indicate a major move.

One problem with a lot of computer software is that the timing might just be pegged to say, noon GMT. The ascendant changes every 3 minutes, so it could be off considerably if, for example, you were born on the West Coast late at night.

If you are working on your birth time, of course, there's no substitute for a hospital record, baby book, county registrar's record, &c. If the moon changed signs on your birth date (as it does every 3 days,) you may be able to narrow down your moon sign. Similarly, read up on aspects to the moon-- which ones could have been in orb on your birth date, and do you experience any of them strongly in your life?

You can try to go by physical appearance to get a rising sign, but I'm not a big fan of this because planets can confound the basic sign reading. For example, I have Virgo rising, but have never been the neat and tidy type; no doubt due to Uranus squaring my ascendant!

Once you've got something, think also about the house system you want to use. A whole sign system may be about the best you can do if you can't nail down a birth time precisely.

Thank you for posting the link JASC.

Jerry.

Re: Rectification - FREE Primary Direction pdf's online

waybread said:

Jill, I would suggest you start by:

(a) nailing down some major events in your life. It looks like you've done some of this already!......

(b) You could even construct this like a workbook......

Click to expand...

I made up a 'graph style' chart in Excel with 0-29 Degrees going down the left hand column, and the Events in the columns across the top.
I then printed out this graph and hand wrote the degrees of all transits, progressions, and solar arcs in the columns corresponding to each event...and I could see definite hits and clusters.

The problem I'm having is that I have many natal planets within 1 degree natally which confuses the calculations.
I even highlighted all of the Pisces, Virgo, Gemini and Sagittarius hits to see if one degree stood out, signifying a potential Asc/Mc -
and there were none.

My birth certificate says 11:45am with a 12.41 degree Pisces Asc w/moon 15.27 Aquarius
My Conception Chart calculates that I had a 11.00 degree Pisces moon w/15.26 Aquarius Asc

Natally, I have:

Pluto 8 virgo
Node 9 pisces/virgo
Neptune 10 scorpio
Jupiter 11 capricorn
Mars 12 cancer
Venus 13 aquarius
Moon 15 aquarius
Saturn 18 capricorn
Mercury 21 sagittarius
Sun/Moon midpoint 22 capricorn
Chiron 28 aquarius
Sun 29 sagittarius

If I was born between 11:35am and 11:55am (10 minutes earlier or later than recorded time),
I would have a possible Asc range of ------ 8 to 16 degrees Pisces
I would also have a possible MC range of -- 17 to 23 degrees Sagittarius

I have clusters at every one of these degrees - on nearly every recorded event.

Since most of my natal planets conjunct, square, trine, or oppose each other in my natal chart -
the transits, progressions, and solar arcs do the same.
It's like a triggering of massive energy going everywhere - at the same time.

So.... I have to figure out how to narrow down my calculations.


1) How do I know if the transit, progression etc... is hitting a possible Asc/MC or if it's just hitting a natal planet?

2) What do I consider first when rectifying and which process carries more weight?
Are the Transits to natal most important, the Solar Arcs to natal, etc...?

For example, I have in play, when I moved from Ohio to Texas, when I was 6.5 years old:

SA uranus 2 virgo
SA pluto 14 virgo
Transit pluto 18 virgo
Transit uranus 22 virgo

All of these would oppose a potential Pisces Asc and square a potential Sagittarius MC. -- But, they don't coincide with the 12.41 pisces Asc or the 20.50 sag MC of my recorded birth of 11:45am (off by 2 degrees).

To narrow my search in adjusting times - Which would take priority? The transits or solar arcs?


Another example - on my Wedding day I had:
Transit Jupiter 9 leo
SA Pluto 9 libra
Progressed Mercury 10 aquarius
Transit Sun 11 gemini
SA Neptune 11 sagittarius
SA Jupiter 12 aquarius
SA Mars 13 leo
Transit Uranus 13 capricorn
SA Venus 14 Pisces
SA Moon 16 Pisces
Transit Neptune 16 capricorn
Progressed Venus 17 Pisces
Progressed Jupiter 18 capricorn
Transit Pluto 18 Scorpio

All of these either conjunct, oppose, square or inconjunct something in my chart.

-- And this theme repeats itself in every event I've charted.


3) Also, what should I be looking for in regards to younger siblings (sisters) being born? Since I have 2 that were both born within 3 years after my birth and the transits, progressions, etc.. for these two dates are still very close in degree to my natal planets.

4) What is the orb allowed when calculating hits? Do all 'cluster' hits need to be exactly in the same degree to be considered?

5) Are Antiscia points used in rectifying? - and how about True Node or Mean Node?

Right now I have used:
Transits - (for exact date known) sun, mercury, venus, mars, jupiter, saturn, uranus, neptune, pluto, chiron
Transits - (only week or month known) did not use sun, moon, mercury, venus mars - unless planet was Stationary Direct or Retrograde
Progressions - used only sun, moon, mercury, venus, mars. (jupiter & saturn were considered if many years had passed and they had moved significantly from the natal degree)
Solar Arc - used all planets, plus chiron



A final note --
According to my recorded birth time, I should experience Solar Arc Saturn conjunct my Asc (12.41 pisces) - in May of 2014.
But if I was born 5 minutes earlier (10.24 pisces) I will be experiencing it in April of 2012 -- 6 months from now.

.... or - if I was born 10 minutes earlier it could have already occured, back in Jan 2008 when:
Transit Venus 28.30 sag
Transit Pluto 29.54 sag
SA Mars 29.54 sag
SA Jupiter 29.38 sag
SA Neptune 29.30 sag
ALL conjuncted my 10th house sun at 29.51 sagittarius
- and my Progressed Mars (at exactly 29.59 degrees gemini, stationary direct) was opposite this mess, fueling the fire.

I also had:
Transiting Uranus at 16 pisces, (possibly square to MC - if SA Saturn was conjuncting a 6 degree pisces Asc at this time)

But - whether it was or wasn't .....It...was.....devastating.
My whole world fell apart.

I resigned from my job,
6 months later, I gave away EVERYTHING I owned,
moved out of my house,
and went into the woods, alone for 30 days.

Basically, I have spent the majority of the past 2 years of my life in total solitude, on top of a mountain in the Cherokee National Forest.
I own very little material 'junk' and have basically cut off all ties and communication to the rest of the world - including my family and the friends that I have known for years. To me - these things are no longer that important. They think I've lost it. But I don't care.
I have to do what I have to do.

Most recently, (July 2011) while on another 30 day backpacking trip, I fasted for 3 weeks, consuming - maybe 2 cups of water daily, in 100 degree August weather. I was amazed at how easy it was, for me to do this.

I never got sick....I wasn't hungry or thirsty...I had an abundance of energy and felt great the entire time.
It's like I've been eliminating all of the 'junk' that no longer truly serves my purpose.
(Maybe Saturn is hitting my Asc now? opposite the House of others, fasting, elimination, isolation...?)

Also, transisting Neptune is in the early sign of Pisces and will be conjuncting my Asc soon. I feel that I am spiritually preparing for this to occur or that it is going to occur soon. Maybe this has something to do with the upcoming earth changes and the times we are heading into.
I don't know. Just a thought.

If anyone can help answer any of the above questions - you're thoughts will definitely be appreciated, because I really would like to know when SA Saturn will be hitting my asc - or - if it already has.


Maybe I should ask a horary to see......

jill

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Re: Rectification - FREE Primary Direction pdf's online

Well, I must say that you have already done a lot of rather advanced things in looking at your own chart! So I hardly consider you a novice in these matters!!
First thing to do would be to correct your official birth time to Sun/Cosmic time (LAT), so on December 21st the Sun/Cosmic time is 2 minutes faster than man made civil time (local mean time); therefore, your were born at 11:47 AM according to the Sun and Cosmos (not 11:45 AM)
Then if you wanted to do a 10 minute time range (for ascendant and MC) estimation, that time range would be from 11:37 AM to 11:57 AM.
...more later...

Re: Rectification - FREE Primary Direction pdf's online

dr. farr said:

......therefore, your were born at 11:47 AM according to the Sun and Cosmos (not 11:45 AM)

Click to expand...

hello Dr. Farr - it's always good to hear from you. Have a question though. You say here that my time would be 2 mins ahead of recorded time but a while back in another one of my threads, you told me the following:
---- so is it 2 min ahead or two minutes behind?

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Re: Rectification - FREE Primary Direction pdf's online

I subtracted when I should have added: whenever the Sun time is faster (than clock time) you ADD to the clock time; when the Sun time is slower than clock time you SUBTRACT from the clock time: sorry, I inverted it in that previous post!

Re: Rectification - FREE Primary Direction pdf's online

By Pauline profection, your ascendant had profected into the natal 11th house under Capricorn in the January to July period of 2008; taking the 11:47 AM Sun/Cosmic time ascending degree which is 13:32 of Pisces, this degree fell in orb of (applying) conjunction with the natal Saturn (18 Capricorn), which means your ascendant was in profected conjunction with natal Saturn: this profection of the ascendant to conjunction with the natal Saturn could have been a factor in the circumstances you experience during that time in 2008, especially so that the SN also had profected nearby (to 8 degrees Capricorn, near conjunction orb with your natal Jupiter, and thus adversely affecting matters connected with Jupiter such as career/employment-as Jupiter rules your natal 10th house-and deeply affecting you as a person overall, since Jupiter is the dispositor of your ascending sign) Duriing this same 2008 time period (prior to your December birthday that year) your Part of Fortune profected into your natal 12th house (restrictions, grief, losses) under Aquarius, and note that the POF dispositors would be Saturn and the upheaval planet, Uranus.
In the 2008 Pauline profection, Uranus had profected into your 4th natal house-the planet of sudden revolutionary changes profected into your "home" house (4th house) and you abandoned your home and gave away all your material possessions-certainly a revolutionary change affecting your home and way of life (4th house significations)
In 2008 Sun, MC and Mercury had profected into the natal 8th house, the house of "death" and finalizations, and certainly-according to your description of that time-the radical changes in your life seem to match!

The next year (December 2008 through December 2009) profected your ascendant into the natal 12th house-the house of limitations, "imprisonment"-whether voluntary or involuntary-and certainly the house of contemplation (in Vedic astrology it is a house of moksha, liberation) Your ascendant profected to the natal Moon, and exactly conjunct natal Venus, in the 12th house under natal Aquarius-seems to go along with new insights arising from your self-imposed isolation.

December 2009-December 2010 the chart came round (by Pauline profection) to the original positions of the natal chart (Pisces had profected back to its natal position)
This year, December 2010 to December 2011, the ascendant has profected into your second natal house under the natal Aries and approaching the natal POF, next year the ascendant profects to Taurus, etc.

Based on the Pauline profections apparently connected so well with the life-changing 2008 events, I would have to say that around 13 Pisces is your "correct" ascendant, and the natal horoscopic chart using the time 11:47 AM, is an accurate chart for horoscopic delineative purposes.

According to the timing of your last 2 post - I can see that you spent 1hr 37min calculating this for me.... bless your heart....wow - I didn't expect that. I will definitely imput the time into my system and compare the degree with the spreadsheet I've compiled to see if it works. I'm finding that when I have found a suitable rising sign, with strong connections that the MC degrees don't match - or vise versa.

I appreciate you taking the time and I will let you know how this time works out. jill

Jill, Possible Ascendants for you in PISCES are: 01PIS32, 17PIS31, 21PIS28, 22PIS46... (edited - errors on my part).

Some suggestions. Don't mix study of transits alongside progressions and/or solar arcs or anything else. Look at them one at a time. Transits operate within a wider orb than progressions, for example, so start with transits and see what they point to.

Look at the meaning of each chart factor: Asc = self/body/head especially. DC= relationships/others. Any marriage or divorce - by matter of pure rulerships - will involve transits/progressions to the natal DC, or the ruler of the DC, or to planets in the 7th house. If you don't have that, you don't have the correct chart - period.

You are clearly smart enough to deal with all these factors, but use one layer at a time, transits alone, then secondary progressions, etc (I never use solar arcs - don't need them). Then its all about rulerships. I suggest you use natal Asc 16PIS53 and look at transits (both in longitude and declination) to the DC [16VIR53] for the date/time of your wedding. Then look at the secondary progressions - ONLY at the aspects with single digit minutes of arc orbs <0*09'> or less. For a wedding event isolate the necessary factor of the DC/ruler/7th house planets. Look in both longitude and declination for confirmation.

jill said:

In rectifying one's birth I've read that Solar Arcs are used to time events that have occured.

But then - I read somewhere else that Primary Directions are used.

At first I thought these were the same thing.
Then I calculated both on astro.com and found that many of the dates given, in both reports, between the same planets are different.

Examples of different dates:

Sun opp Uranus
SA occurs 3-19-2015
PD occurs 9-10-2018

MC conj Venus
SA occurs 8-14-2012
PD occurs 3-23-2018

Sun opp Pluto
SA occurs 3-16-2028
PD occurs 7-26-2036
​

so...am I going to be 'erratic' and 'unpredictable' in 2015 ...or in 2018?
is my MC going to benefit from Venus in 2012 ...or in 2018?
...and will my ego get 'whacked' in 2028 ...or in 2036?
or can I expect something to occur around both dates?

1. Why is there a time difference between Solar Arc dates and Primary Direction dates -when the same planets are involved?
​

2. Is one used for internal changes and the other for external circumstances, etc...

3. And how do Converse 'hits' operate on our lives in relation to Direct 'hits'?
​

And last - but MOST importantly -

4. With the two dates, being sometimes years apart, which system should I use when rectifying a birth time or predicting a future event?
​

I have Pluto/Node conjunct 4 degrees from my Dec in the 6th house and, according to Solar Arc, it would have opposed my Asc when I was 4. But our family moved with 5 kids from Ohio to Texas when I was 6, (major transformation) which leads me to think my Asc is wrong by 2 degrees. But then, ...I was burned severely, twice before the age of 5 - so pluto opposing my asc could have been the two times I was hospitalized.



....thought I had this 'rectification' stuff down........aghhhhh


thanks for helping, jill


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Click to expand...

primary directions are traditional planets only
solar arcs are 1 deg per year all the planets
Solar arcs easier to do than primary

T

Kannon said:

Any marriage or divorce - by matter of pure rulerships - will involve transits/progressions to the natal DC, or the ruler of the DC, or to planets in the 7th house. If you don't have that, you don't have the correct chart - period.

For a wedding event isolate the necessary factor of the DC/ruler/7th house planets. Look in both longitude and declination for confirmation

Click to expand...

thanks kannon for replying. Two quick questions:

1) Do I use whole sign system or 'regular' default houses? Pluto/Node move into the 7th with whole sign method.

2) Do I use the declination from the natal, the event date, or both?

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