Jupiter in detriment, anaretic degree + high declination

The Ram

The Ram

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
On the contrary,
although Jupiter is STRONGLY PLACED
because of being ANGULAR in 4th as mentioned
HOWEVER
Jupiter is far from happy

because

this natal charts shows natal Jupiter is in Exile and Peregrine
as far away from home as Jupiter can possibly be
because
Jupiter is in the Sign OPPOSITE to Jupiter's home territory, Sagittarius
Mixed Mutual Reception does not save Jupiter from being peregrine
i.e.
Jupiter has no dignity at 29 Gemini
because at that degree
Jupiter has no essential dignity of either domicile, exaltation, triplicity, term or face

HOWEVER

Jupiter does have the ACCIDENTAL DIGNITY of being STRONGLY PLACE IN 4TH ANGULAR HOUSE

and so

your natal Jupiter is not particularly happy
BUT
IS strongly placed
and
therefore able to act
Click to expand...
Jupiter is Not peregrine.

According to Robert Hand ANY mutual reception, including a mixed mutual reception involving even minor dignities such as term and face will cancel out peregrine status. I agree with Hand, youre free to think however you like, just dont try to pawn your opinions off as universal truth.
Although a sextile is a promising aspect
Your natal Mercury only just escapes being peregrine
because Mercury's dignity in Aries is SOLELY by TERM in only 7 of those degrees according to LILLY
but 8 of those degrees according to THE EGYPTIAN TERMS
as clearly shown by these tables

dignities2.gif


egyptianterms.gif
Click to expand...

MERCURY IS not peregrine. Youre arguing that mercury is nearly out of his term, even though he still is in it natally? Ok.

According to Maternus: a planet in its own term it is just as if its located in its own sign. I woulldnt go this far, but I definitely think that term is a bit more substancial a dignity than the 2 point value that Lilly assigns it.
Any reception is better than none
however reception by Triplicity is not as strong as reception by domicile
And Mercury is being received by an unhappy,
but strongly placed to act,
Peregrine Jupiter who has no dignity and lacks resources
and
therefore Jupiter is not of much assistance to Mercury
who receives a debilated Jupiter who is lacking in resources



Jupiter's sole strength is angularity
and since Jupiter is generally in a debilitated state
then that's increasing Jupiter's misery
Click to expand...
Triplicity is not as strong a dignity as domicile? Really??? Tell me more....

Again Jupiter being peregrine is just an opinion, one that many would disagree with.

A mutual reception imo is an exchange of dignities with each recieving the dignity the planets would recieve in the others place. Some authours have said that the 2 planets exchange places, this statement can be found in Astrology for the authentic self by Demetra George. I dont go that far, but I have found it best to add up whatever dignity and debility there is for the planet in whatever sign it is in and then add whatever dignities it would get in the sign of the planet it has mutual reception with.

If you feel different thats fine, but dont try to impose your limited view on the world, for someone with jupiter in the ascendant youd think youd have more understanding of how different ways of doing things may work for different astrologers.
 
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The Ram

The Ram

Well-known member
Bina, you have to remember that some people feel really limited or insecure about parts of their own lives so they sometimes will try to depress you as well. Though sometimes they are trying to just help and others it may be a mixture of both.

Id reccomend looking back at your jupiter transits, how have they been for you? Look at the planets jupiter aspects in your chart, how well has he expanded and integrated them?

Ppl tried to telll me that I had a weak jupiter awhile back, but I knew I didnt and could explain it astrologically and I even asked my oracle the tarot about it and even it said it was very strong. Now Jupiter is transiting my ascendant and Im happier than Ive ever been, things are really coming together now in both a material and spiritual way in my life, even my love life is better than its ever been. Im so content that my own happiness is even making other people jealous.

I guess thats why im glad to be an aries, I listened to myself instead of others who really didnt know what they were talking about.

Jupiter is going to sextile your natal jupiter in a while, its approacing that right now (just under 10 degrees) why not try being more positive and hopeful in regards to your expectations of it and see what destiny has in store for you then? By being positive and hopeful (jupiter characteristics) youre going to magnetize the jupiter energy into your life a lot better.

Also your natal Jupiter sits in Transiting Jupiters 11th house in whole sign houses, thats Jupiters joy. So this may be a really auspicious time for you with the upcoming sextile as well.
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
The Ram said:
Jupiter is Not peregrine.

According to Robert Hand ANY mutual reception,
including a mixed mutual reception involving even minor dignities such as term and face
will cancel out peregrine status.
I agree with Hand, youre free to think however you like,
just dont try to pawn your opinions off as universal truth.
Click to expand...
Although it is possible, dependent on the nature of the reception
for a MUTUAL RECEPTION to MITIGATE the peregrine condition of a planet
it does not CANCEL IT OUT/ELIMINATE that peregrine state

and so
the fact is
that since
Jupiter in this natal chart has no dignity by either term OR face
because
Jupiter in this particular natal chart is located at 29º Gemini

furthermore because
Jupiter at 29º Gemini is neither in domicile nor in exaltation
nor in own Triplicity, nor in term, nor in face
and because

Jupiter at 29º Gemini is in the domicile of Mercury,
Jupiter at 29º Gemini is in the Terms of Mars
Jupiter at 29º Gemini is in the Face of the Sun

hence

Jupiter at 29º Gemini is located in an area where Jupiter has no dignity by either domicile, exaltation, triplicity term OR face


FURTHERMORE
Jupiter at 29º Gemini is in MERCURY'S TRIPLICITY
hence
that is why Jupiter at 29º Gemini HAS NO ESSENTIAL DIGNITY
and so
Jupiter at 29º Gemini IS peregrine



EVEN IF Jupiter's peregrine state is slightly mitigated
because this is a night chart
in which Jupiter and Mercury are therefore in mutual reception by Triplicity

i.e.
as I already said
JUPITERASC said:


although Jupiter is STRONGLY PLACED
because of being ANGULAR in 4th as mentioned
HOWEVER
Jupiter is far from happy

because

this natal charts shows natal Jupiter is in Exile and Peregrine
as far away from home as Jupiter can possibly be
because
Jupiter is in the Sign OPPOSITE to Jupiter's home territory, Sagittarius


Mixed Mutual Reception does not save Jupiter from being peregrine
i.e.
Jupiter has no dignity at 29 Gemini
because at that degree
Jupiter has no essential dignity of either domicile, exaltation, triplicity, term or face


and so

your natal Jupiter is not particularly happy


Although a sextile is a promising aspect
Your natal Mercury only just escapes being peregrine
Click to expand...
notice
I said ~ 'MERCURY ONLY JUST ESCAPES BEING PEREGRINE'
The Ram said:
MERCURY IS not peregrine.
Youre arguing that mercury is nearly out of his term,
even though he still is in it natally? Ok.
Click to expand...
I said, Mercury only just escapes being peregrine
i.e.
JUPITERASC said:
Although a sextile is a promising aspect
Your natal Mercury only just escapes being peregrine
Click to expand...
CLEARLY I said Mercury JUST ESCAPES peregrination
which is good in fact
The Ram said:
According to Maternus: a planet in its own term it is just as if its located in its own sign. I woulldnt go this far,

but I definitely think that term is a bit more substancial a dignity than the 2 point value that Lilly assigns it.

Triplicity is not as strong a dignity as domicile?

Really???

Tell me more....
Click to expand...
You asked me to tell you more

QUOTE

'....Finding a triplicity ruler situated in its triplicity
is said by Lilly to show a person who is: modestly endued with the Goods and Fortune of this world.

While good, its condition is not as strong as a planet in its own sign or exaltation.

Ibn Ezra compared the situation to a man in the house of his relatives
- his position is not as strong and comfortable as when he is in his own home,
and
he wouldn't expect to receive the same level of respect as an honoured guest,
but
he is in a familiar, relaxed environment
and so this is considered to be a comfortable position.....'

The Ram said:

Again Jupiter being peregrine is just an opinion, one that many would disagree with.

A mutual reception imo is an exchange of dignities
with each recieving the dignity the planets would recieve in the others place.
Some authours have said that the 2 planets exchange places, this statement can be found in Astrology for the authentic self by Demetra George.
I dont go that far, but I have found it best to add up whatever dignity and debility there is for the planet in whatever sign it is in
and then add whatever dignities it would get in the sign of the planet it has mutual reception with.

If you feel different thats fine, but dont try to impose your limited view on the world,
for someone with jupiter in the ascendant youd think youd have more understanding
of how different ways of doing things may work for different astrologers.
Click to expand...
The fact is that a peregrine planet has no dignity in any of its places
and
Jupiter in this natal chart CLEARLY HAS NO DIGNITY IN ANY OF ITS PLACES

QUOTE

"A Planet is then said to be Peregrine,
when he is in the degrees of any Sign wherein he hath no essential dignity,
As Saturn in the tenth degree of Aries,
that Sign being not his House, Exaltation, or of his Triplicity,
or
he having in that degree neither Term or Face,
he is then said to be Peregrine;
had he been in 27, 28, &c. of Aries, he could not be termed Peregrine, because then he is in his own Term" ~ source: WILLIAM LILLY

Peregrine is a Latin word meaning 'alien' or 'foreigner'
derived from 'pereger' = beyond the borders,
'ager' = land,
i.e., 'beyond one's own land'
...In old English, to 'peregrinate' means to wander far from home.

QUOTE

'...In symbolic terms,
a peregrine planet describes a drifter - someone with no title or stake in his or her environment.
It's helpful to think in terms of property
Property owners tend to view drifters with suspicion, and distrust their lack of stability.
Peregrine planets share this dubious reputation

Under normal circumstances
a peregrine planet lacks the necessary strength to convey lasting benefit.
Its position of weakness can be alleviated, however,
if it is strongly dignified accidentally
or if it forms a mutual reception with a stronger planet....'

SO

to be clear then
Jupiter's PEREGRINE STATUS can be ALLEVIATED but not ELIMINATED
by the Mutual Reception by Triplicity with natal Mercury in this case
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
REGARDING 'ANARETIC DEGREE'
it seems the idea of 'anaretic degree' is linked to HORARY astrology NOT natal :smile:


QUOTE

'........‘The so called Critical degrees are derived from the Moon’s average daily motion of 13 degrees
Through the signs,
starting at 0-Aries and ‘falling out’ as follows:


0, 13 ,26 of Cardinal Signs,
9,21 Fixed,
4, 17 Common (Mutable)


The significators
or
co-ruler Moon
in a critical degree will being matters to a critical point,
a crisis, or to a head, as in an illness or quarrel......'



QUOTE

'.......0, 15 and 29 degrees

If in 0-degrees the person has lately entered upon a new course:
in 29 degrees he is about to make a definitive change:
in either case , if the ruler leaves a Sign in which it had better standing it is a turn for the worse,
otherwise it is a turn for the better.

In or around the middle of the Sign, he is better balanced and more likely to steer a middle course insofar as the question is concerned.
Midway of a Fixed sign , he will probably stay put in the matter.

The 29th degree shows some misfortune connected with the matter:
the person or matter asked about is chaging,
at the end of his rope or patience, or desperate.''....' SIMPLIFIED HORARY ASTROLOGY by Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson
 
Bina

Bina

Well-known member
JUPITERASC said:
REGARDING 'ANARETIC DEGREE'
it seems the idea of 'anaretic degree' is linked to HORARY astrology NOT natal :smile:
Click to expand...


I've read about it concerning natal charts as well, some quotes :smile::

If a natal planet is found at 29 degrees of any sign, also known as the Anaretic degree, there can be some real issues....
Click to expand...
- from cafeastrology.com

If you have a planet positioned at the 29th degree in any of the houses of the zodiac in your chart, you could say that planet is stationed at the Anaretic Degree.
Click to expand...
- from astrology.com


and many more...:smile:
 
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JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Bina said:
You can find a lot of references to the anaretic degree in natal charts if you just google "anaretic degree", including the 2 which i quoted. :wink:
Click to expand...
If you already have the links you have the choice of posting them
however if you choose to deliberately wtihold them
then that is your choice
meanwhile there is no evidence posted on this thread
that anaretic degree is other than an Horary practice :smile:

I say this in order to reassure you
as you seem concerned
regarding the condition of your natal Jupiter 'being on an anaretic degree'

Meanwhile I am certain others are likely to comment on this matter
so good luck to you and best wishes on your astrological journey
 
Kaiousei no Senshi

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
REGARDING 'ANARETIC DEGREE'
it seems the idea of 'anaretic degree' is linked to HORARY astrology NOT natal :smile:


QUOTE

'........‘The so called Critical degrees are derived from the Moon’s average daily motion of 13 degrees
Through the signs,
starting at 0-Aries and ‘falling out’ as follows:


0, 13 ,26 of Cardinal Signs,
9,21 Fixed,
4, 17 Common (Mutable)
Click to expand...

Source for this please? Or are you saying that this and the section you post below it are both from Goldstein-Jacobson?

I see it thrown around a lot, but honestly the only thing I can find in classical texts regarding critical degrees are the lame or deficit degrees.
 
JUPITERASC

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Kaiousei no Senshi said:
Source for this please?

Or are you saying that this and the section you post below it are both from Goldstein-Jacobson?

I see it thrown around a lot,
but honestly the only thing I can find in classical texts regarding critical degrees
are the lame or deficit degrees.
Click to expand...
I'm in agreement :smile:

and in fact both those quotes you asked about
are from a section of
SIMPLIFIED HORARY ASTROLOGY by Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson

Hence my emphasis on Horary
 
Kaiousei no Senshi

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
Well, I'm certainly no fan of Goldstein-Jacobson so it seems unlikely that I'll get any real source for those degrees being considered critical in any way. I do think it's fun to see those degrees being referred to as "anaretic" when the anareta is a natal technique that identifies the killing planet. Azimene degrees, likewise have natal applications. Important planets on azimene degrees can indicate birth defects or physical abnormalities. They are, essentially, more concentrated defective signs.
 
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