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  #1  
Unread 06-02-2021, 01:43 PM
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US - a Uranian Country

All,

Recently I was thinking about the US birth chart and it occurred to me it makes NO sense to create a chart for the signing Declaration of Independence. The signing of the Declaration of Independence was at the time was STILL a colony of Great Britain. The US ONLY became it's own country after the Battle of Yorktown, When Cornwallis signed the surrender papers that officially released the US from Great Britain's colonial rule.

Interestingly enough, the time and place of this surrender signing is VERY well known, as George Washington made a note of it in his diary: 11 AM at Yorktown PA. Casting a chart for THIS time and place is VERY interesting. As you see, it shows a fan chart with Uranus () as the handle. Even thought there is no opposition to Uranus in the chart, Uranus is CLEARLY the outlying planet.

And that got me thinking about the nature of Uranus: it is both about independence and revolution, as well as it is about "social security". This dual nature of Uranus very well symbolizes the opposite political parties IN the US: some people are about personal independence (Republicans) while others are about developing social security with the help of a strong, protective government (Democrats).

Also I noted that at this time transiting Uranus is OPPOSING natal Mercury (thinking, also talking, writing). Uranus is also associated with technology and in the US this is a time when technology is opposing freedom of thinking, talking, and writing. This got me thinking that this chart, instead of the US signing chart, is the chart of the founding of the US.

Thinking out loud,

Tim
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Unread 06-02-2021, 02:50 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

It is indeed an interesting chart, with many different positions though still a prominent Sag. I like your line of thinking about the implications of the significators as well. However in astrology it seems like it's common to use INTENTION setting dates/times/charts -- elections -- just as much as it is to use EVENT charts.

The event chart you shared is born out of the intention or declaration -- couldn't have taken place without it. I suppose as time moves forward both intention and early events are recapitulated.

It's definitely not thrilling to see the NN in Aries 4h, with Mars-Pluto conjunct in 2h Aqua, squaring both Mercury professing its ideals in 11h and Sun-SN ego-identification of diplomacy in 10. It suggests the US is almost destined to make everyone else's business its own business. Not a good indicator for those who hoped Trump would be able to take our nose out of the affairs of others.
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Unread 06-02-2021, 04:42 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

What you say is true TimW. The U.S.A. was still a colony of the British Empire in 1776.....

YET, on July 4, 1776, the Founding Fathers made and signed a DECLARATION that they were independent on that date. That's the beginning of the 'birth' of the country.

By issuing the Declaration of Independence, adopted by the Continental Congress on July 4, 1776, the 13 American colonies severed their political connections to Great Britain. The Declaration summarized the colonists’ motivations for seeking independence. By declaring themselves an independent nation, the American colonists were able to confirm an official alliance with the Government of France and obtain French assistance in the war against Great Britain.

Remember that many of the Founding Fathers were also astrologers.

They wanted the people to love their new country & be loyal to it. Their principles are based on CANCER themes of home, family, children. Cancer is a Cardinal sign too, concerned with protecting itself. The Moon Aquarius in the 1776 was planned specifically to be so...in order to be open to other cultures, other ideas and look how many immigrants were settled into the country and become part of the whole.


There are astrologers who believe the country's chart should be when the first President swore the oath & took office on April 30, 1789.

On April 30, 1789, George Washington, standing on the balcony of Federal Hall on Wall Street in New York, took his oath of office as the first President of the United States.


Perhaps that is the chart that should be used....and yet, the Sibley chart of 1776 is the most popular because it signifies the WILL of the PEOPLE to break away from the greatest military power at that time. Other countries/colonies did not do that but only the U.S.A. put their lives on the line to create an independent nation. Uranus/DC reveals how the country will always remain unique in the 'American Experiment' as it was called back then.

The Presidents who resonate with the public the most all have a very uncanny chemistry with the 1776 chart. Perhaps because the WILL to break away from the U.K. enabled many to fight & die for their new country. (There were many who refused to fiht & who were quite content with remaining a colony).

Healthy discussion is always good. I'm sure your chart will have its share of people who agree.

I've seen numerous other charts for the U.K. too.

In the end, astrologers will use the chart that resonates with them most clearly.



https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Nation:_USA_No.1

https://history.state.gov/milestones...83/declaration
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Unread 06-02-2021, 05:43 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

Very interesting proposal, although I tend to go with passiflora and blackberry on this.
in addition to their comments, the scorpio moon conjunct ascendent ruler Jupiter in the 29th degree doesn't seem to reflect the US.
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Unread 06-02-2021, 09:30 PM
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Here's an article by Dane Rudhyar which explains the controversy over which chart to use for the U.S.A.--

https://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/astr...oroscope.shtml
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Unread 06-02-2021, 09:59 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

All,

Perhaps July 4, 1776 was when the US was CONCEIVED. But the US as a SEPARATE UNIT from Great Britain did NOT happen until Great Britain officially surrendered the US. Just as company charts are created for the day they sign the document saying the company exists as its own entity, so an independent country's chart should be from the moment it exists as its own entity, separate from any other country.

Suggesting,

Tim
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Unread 06-02-2021, 10:09 PM
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Smile Re: US - a Uranian Country

The Constitution wasn't ratified until May 29, 1790.

Doesn't that define the birth of the Nation?

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Unread 06-02-2021, 10:11 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

Quote:
Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
It's definitely not thrilling to see the NN in Aries 4h...It suggests the US is almost destined to make everyone else's business its own business.
passiflora,

Following up on that point, with a North node (future goals) focused in the 4th house (home) in Aries (being) there is an indicator that the US's goal is to develop its own self-awareness of who it is at its core. This also suggests a strong focus on the US's national identity. Also interesting in this chart is there is a STRONG focus on the left (self) side, further suggesting a strong focus on the US itself. While a focus on the Right side of the chart (e.g., the July 4, 1776 chart) suggests a country dependent on OTHERS, the strong focus on the LEFT side of the chart suggests a country that takes its OWN actions and is in charge of taking actions for itself. There is also a STRONG focus of planets in the 11th house, associated with Aquarius, ruled by Uranus, again emphasizing the strong interest in independence and social security.

I've never been able to find a justification in the real world of the US for the July 4, 1776 chart, but just a brief look over this chart of the date and time US separated completely from Great Britain seems to "feel" right.

Continuing the study,

Tim
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Unread 06-02-2021, 11:01 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

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passiflora,

Following up on that point, with a North node (future goals) focused in the 4th house (home) in Aries (being) there is an indicator that the US's goal is to develop its own self-awareness of who it is at its core. This also suggests a strong focus on the US's national identity. Also interesting in this chart is there is a STRONG focus on the left (self) side, further suggesting a strong focus on the US itself. While a focus on the Right side of the chart (e.g., the July 4, 1776 chart) suggests a country dependent on OTHERS, the strong focus on the LEFT side of the chart suggests a country that takes its OWN actions and is in charge of taking actions for itself. There is also a STRONG focus of planets in the 11th house, associated with Aquarius, ruled by Uranus, again emphasizing the strong interest in independence and social security.

I've never been able to find a justification in the real world of the US for the July 4, 1776 chart, but just a brief look over this chart of the date and time US separated completely from Great Britain seems to "feel" right.

Continuing the study,

Tim
I hear what you're saying, though think we should not stop after looking at which hemispheres are most populated. The chart you posted is a bucket with Uranus in the 7th house. It's ruled by Mercury in Scorpio, which is about others' business, especially in the 11th which -- while it's on the personal hemisphere -- is very much concerned with organizational and affiliative interactions.

The Mars-Pluto conjunction in the 2nd house is again in Aquarius, and it squares the nodes and the US ability to "find itself" -- which I think consistent with the rocket ascendancy of the US through its position in world wars. The military industrial complex may not have caused those two wars, but were the reason for success and eventual global dominance in the name of freedom.

With the NN ruler in Aqua 2h conjunct Pluto, squaring the node, it's just too appealing to make the money on offer (Identity as Military-Industrial Democracy Promoter) than to seek self-knowledge. I read once someone comment that 2h is not just values and $$ but the house of knowledge, which is an interesting theory and maybe the US could go that way ... one day... after capitalism.
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Unread 06-03-2021, 05:21 AM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

Good thread topic, Tim.

The thing about the US Sibly chart for the Declaration of Independence, is that it's been sufficiently radical to have merit in interpreting subsequent US historical events. I'm not sure charts for the subsequent 18th century milestones in American history have that quality.

And no-- the word "radical" in astrology does not mean extremely left-wing. It means valid, or having significant interpretive value. Geoffrey Cornelius in The Moment of Astrology talked about event charts that were actually cast for the wrong time, yet were radical, or high in interpretive value.

One would have to compare this or any other chart for the US with subsequent events using transits, progressions, or primary directions to see whether this chart helps to explain them. These could also help with the chart rectification.

Irish astrologer Bill Sheeran argued for using a suite of charts for national birthdays, as one could trace the unfolding of important events over time.

I also note that the concept of individual liberty was a very long time coming in the US. Even the ratified Constitution and Bill of Rights accepted chattel slavery, few rights for women, and extermination policies towards Native Americans.

The First Amendment to the Constitution is probably as close as our founding documents come to really enshrining basic human rights (at least for white men.)

I don't think that the binary dichotomy of Republicans as favoring individual liberty vs Democrats favoring a protective government (Nanny state???) is accurate. Obviously most senior Republicans want to keep their Social Security and Medicare, as well as VA benefits for veterans. We don't see a groundswell of elderly Arizona Republicans clamoring to give up their entitlements. Democrats also prize their individual liberty. They just express it differently.

Here's a chart for the Bill of Rights when proposed by James Madison, and another one for its ratification.
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File Type: jpg bill of rights proposed by Madison.jpg (42.0 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg bill of_rights_ratified. 2.jpg (42.1 KB, 1 views)
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Unread 06-03-2021, 05:30 AM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

In mundane astrology each house has a particular meaning. The 7th house refers to foreign affairs, whether diplomatic or hostile.

In this sense a 7th house Uranus would be meaningful for a break-away (sudden change) from a previous regime.

Uranus is also the tip of a yod, indicating an energy that must be developed.

BTW, the Constitution was ratified on June 21, 1788. The Bill of Rights was ratified on December 15, 1791.
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Unread 06-03-2021, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
In mundane astrology each house has a particular meaning. The 7th house refers to foreign affairs, whether diplomatic or hostile.

In this sense a 7th house Uranus would be meaningful for a break-away (sudden change) from a previous regime.

Uranus is also the tip of a yod, indicating an energy that must be developed.

BTW, the Constitution was ratified on June 21, 1788. The Bill of Rights was ratified on December 15, 1791.
Rhode Island didn't complete the ratification until May 29, 1790
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Unread 06-03-2021, 12:18 PM
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Individual vs. Government

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The thing about the US Sibly chart for the Declaration of Independence, is that it's been sufficiently radical to have merit in interpreting subsequent US historical events.

I also note that the concept of individual liberty was a very long time coming in the US...Republicans as favoring individual liberty vs Democrats favoring a protective government...Obviously most senior Republicans want to keep their Social Security and Medicare, as well as VA benefits for veterans. We don't see a groundswell of elderly Arizona Republicans clamoring to give up their entitlements. Democrats also prize their individual liberty. They just express it differently.
Waybread,

I'm interested in testing this chart against other events and finding out how well it holds up. As I suggested, on the face of it, it seems a LOT more believable to have a focus on Uranus than a focus on Government (Pluto) oppressing (opposite) Communication (Mercury) (as there is in the Sibley chart)...as you mention, the Constitution was about making sure that DIDN'T happen.

Going back to your point about Republican vs. Democrat and individual liberty vs. social security. What I was saying was that striking SOME kind of balance between liberty and social security has come to DEFINE the US and the US government. Wherever individuals come down on that dividing line, left, right or center it IS the Uranian dividing line that people focus on. It is also the issue that the swinging "pendulum" of US political policies addresses: from more government to more individual freedom, back and forth. That alone jumps out to me as something that makes this a believable chart.

But the proof is in the testing. Now it's time to take a look at major US events such as the Great Depression and see what the chart indicates and how well it reflects what actually occurred.

Learning all the time,

Tim
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Unread 06-03-2021, 12:27 PM
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US and Uranian Foreign Affairs

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In mundane astrology each house has a particular meaning. The 7th house refers to foreign affairs, whether diplomatic or hostile. In this sense a 7th house Uranus would be meaningful for a break-away (sudden change) from a previous regime. Uranus is also the tip of a yod, indicating an energy that must be developed.
Waybread,

To follow up on this point and further suggest why this chart appears, at first glance, to be relevant. If you think about recent US foreign policy, particularly in wars, they have been a constant push towards developing the individual rights of the people in the country and setting up a system that will help them with their social security. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, etc. there is this constant theme of helping the people of the country be independent and to break away from an oppressive regime. Indeed, these days, about the ONLY reason for the US to go to war is to either stop or prevent an oppressive regime from hurting their people. A debate in the US's involvement in the Israel-Palestine wars is who is the person who is actually oppressed? Those who say it's Israel are for the US supporting Israel, those who say it's Palestine are for the US supporting Israel. If there were no issue of a need to break away from an oppressive regime the US would probably be MUCH less involved in Israel and it wouldn't be a subject of continual discussion.

Further reflecting,

Tim
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Unread 06-03-2021, 06:19 PM
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Smile Re: US - a Uranian Country

Personally, I like thinking of the U.S. as a Uranian-influenced country.
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Unread 06-03-2021, 07:47 PM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

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Personally, I like thinking of the U.S. as a Uranian-influenced country.
Yes indeed, Uranus in Cancer on the OP's first post of this thread, but on July 4, 1776, the sun was in Cancer and the moon in Aquarius, Uranus' ruling sign and was past full moon phase, and the chart has Aries midpoint/Sagittarius rising.

USA's natal chart. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Nation:_USA_No.1
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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Unread 06-03-2021, 08:32 PM
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Yes indeed, Uranus in Cancer on the OP's first post of this thread, but on July 4, 1776, the sun was in Cancer and the moon in Aquarius, Uranus' ruling sign and was past full moon phase, and the chart has Aries midpoint/Sagittarius rising.

USA's natal chart. https://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Nation:_USA_No.1

Yes, both have Sagittarius Asc, which seems obviously correct to me.
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Unread 06-03-2021, 09:20 PM
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Re: Individual vs. Government

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Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
Waybread,

I'm interested in testing this chart against other events and finding out how well it holds up. As I suggested, on the face of it, it seems a LOT more believable to have a focus on Uranus than a focus on Government (Pluto) oppressing (opposite) Communication (Mercury) (as there is in the Sibley chart)...as you mention, the Constitution was about making sure that DIDN'T happen.

Going back to your point about Republican vs. Democrat and individual liberty vs. social security. What I was saying was that striking SOME kind of balance between liberty and social security has come to DEFINE the US and the US government. Wherever individuals come down on that dividing line, left, right or center it IS the Uranian dividing line that people focus on. It is also the issue that the swinging "pendulum" of US political policies addresses: from more government to more individual freedom, back and forth. That alone jumps out to me as something that makes this a believable chart.

But the proof is in the testing. Now it's time to take a look at major US events such as the Great Depression and see what the chart indicates and how well it reflects what actually occurred.

Learning all the time,

Tim
Tim, to find out how your chart holds up as the preferable US birth date, I think you would now have to run it through a lot of significant dates in US history and see how it stacks up with planetary "hits," whether via transits, progressions, or some other prognosticative method. This was done for the Sibly chart.

I also think this is the only way in which your Republican vs. Democrat binary opposition would have any meaning. The US has been a constitutional Republic for over two centuries, and political parties and their platforms have changed significantly during that time. For example, the Republican party wasn't even founded until 1854, and then it was pro-abolition, vs. the "Dixiecrats." The parties' stands on racialized inequalities began to reverse only during the Reagan presidency.

Frankly, with the plurality of registered American voters today as independents, it's unclear how many truly want the classic Fox News divisiveness pitting a "them" against an "us." I find that very unhelpful. More people are probably concerned about their job security and income than give a care about party politics.

And for any Republicans opposed to big government, I recommend that they return their covid economic stimulus checks to the Treasury Department. They're not as opposed to the social safety net as they claim.
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Unread 06-03-2021, 09:29 PM
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Tim, to find out how your chart holds up as the preferable US birth date, I think you would now have to run it through a lot of significant dates in US history and see how it stacks up with planetary "hits," whether via transits, progressions, or some other prognosticative method. This was done for the Sibly chart.

I also think this is the only way in which your Republican vs. Democrat binary opposition would have any meaning. The US has been a constitutional Republic for over two centuries, and political parties and their platforms have changed significantly during that time. For example, the Republican party wasn't even founded until 1854, and then it was pro-abolition, vs. the "Dixiecrats." The parties' stands on racialized inequalities began to reverse only during the Reagan presidency.

Frankly, with the plurality of registered American voters today as independents, it's unclear how many truly want the classic Fox News divisiveness pitting a "them" against an "us." I find that very unhelpful. More people are probably concerned about their job security and income than give a care about party politics.

And for any Republicans opposed to big government, I recommend that they return their covid economic stimulus checks to the Treasury Department. They're not as opposed to the social safety net as they claim.
Waybread, notice the growing number of independent voters, who don't fully subscribe to either of the two major Parties. So, it's not just Republicans versus Democrats anymore.

Is there a good article on how the Sibly chart has proven itself accurate?

Last edited by david starling; 06-03-2021 at 09:32 PM.
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Unread 06-04-2021, 12:59 PM
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Re: Individual vs. Government

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I also think this is the only way in which your Republican vs. Democrat binary opposition would have any meaning. The US has been a constitutional Republic for over two centuries, and political parties and their platforms have changed significantly during that time.
Waybread,

The FOUNDING of the US was based on the idea of independence from government (from the Declaration of Independence): "...all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness..." This shows how it has ALWAYS been important in the US, even from BEFORE the US was an independent country, to allow people to have their individual rights. The central issue in the US is how much should there be individual rights and how much should be government action? The CONCEPTION chart (Sibley) of the US shows this as does the BIRTH chart (Cornwallis surrender chart).

Following up,

Tim
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Unread 06-04-2021, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
Waybread,

The FOUNDING of the US was based on the idea of independence from government (from the Declaration of Independence): "...all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness..." This shows how it has ALWAYS been important in the US, even from BEFORE the US was an independent country, to allow people to have their individual rights. The central issue in the US is how much should there be individual rights and how much should be government action? The CONCEPTION chart (Sibley) of the US shows this as does the BIRTH chart (Cornwallis surrender chart).

Following up,

Tim

Tim, what about government action to ensure individual rights?
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Unread 06-04-2021, 08:30 PM
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Re: Individual vs. Government

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
Waybread,

The FOUNDING of the US was based on the idea of independence from government (from the Declaration of Independence): "...all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness..." This shows how it has ALWAYS been important in the US, even from BEFORE the US was an independent country, to allow people to have their individual rights. The central issue in the US is how much should there be individual rights and how much should be government action? The CONCEPTION chart (Sibley) of the US shows this as does the BIRTH chart (Cornwallis surrender chart).

Following up,

Tim
Looks like you have an argument for the Sibly chart!

Tim, the Declaration wasn't about independence from any form of federal government whatsoever. If you read further, you will see that most of it was a specific set of grievances against George III. The Declaration was not signed by a bunch of anarchists. They had continental congresses and meetings with delegates from the 13 colonies to administer the united colonies at war and prior to the ratification of the Constitution.

Prior to the Declaration each of the 13 colonies was administered separately. (Cf. Ben Franklin: "We must all hang together or most assuredly we shall all hang separately.")

The Declaration was not even specifically anti-taxation. The signers opposed "taxation without representation."

Just as an aside, they actually didn't believe that all men are created equal. The signers from Delaware, Maryland, and South were slave owners (or at least lived in states where slavery was legal.) You know their frontier settlers' attitudes about Native Americans.

Given the time at which it was written, the typical "man" was also intended to be a property owner. Exact voting qualifications were left up to the individual colonies/states.

For details: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeli..._United_States

Individual rights really weren't enshrined prior to the Bill of Rights. (See my post with the two charts on this.)

I honestly believe that you are rescripting or glossing over hard historical facts to suit a contemporary conservative ideology.

Having said that, I do see that USA as a very Uranian nation. Somethings that Uranus rules:

*things futuristic
*electricity, electronics (Thomas Edison to Bill Gates)
*aviation (and probably space flight) (Wright brothers, moon walk)
*political revolutions, liberation (1776, Civil War)
*change to the status quo ( the latest fad to meaningful innovations)

I see innovation being key to understanding Uranus in US history.
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Last edited by waybread; 06-04-2021 at 08:33 PM.
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Unread 06-04-2021, 08:35 PM
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Re: Individual vs. Government

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Tim, what about government action to ensure individual rights?
Like the SCOTUS and balance of powers between the 3 branches of government? That's the Constitution.

But we cannot just paper over the issue of slavery in claiming that "all men are created egual," unless we adhere to the Muslim tenet that all are equal in the sight of God.

Of course, the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" needs a bunch of unpacking, especially given the legality of death penalties in the 13 colonies/states.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
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Unread 06-05-2021, 01:55 AM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

No Earth signs. None. Interesting, both Nodes and MC/IC are Libra Aries. I like Pluto in the 2nd. The turbulence of the economy. With Mars conjunct in the 2nd. Rather accurately portrays the, Capitalistic political atmosphere.


Also, it maintains a cardinal sun. Much of the chart is still cardinal, not much mutable. Also, i like Uranus in the 7th. Strange bed partners.


October 19th, nice day for a party, not too hot not too cold!

Last edited by Opal; 06-05-2021 at 02:05 AM.
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Unread 06-05-2021, 04:07 AM
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Re: US - a Uranian Country

Tim, I think it's a bit off to define Democrats' or liberals' primary interest as social security (lower case) vs. Republicans' or conservatives' primary interest as individual liberty.

I get that you're making a connection between then (1781) and now, but I have tried to point out that a birth chart for a nation has to have explanatory value for a lot of big events in between. I've also pointed out that few Republican seniors want to give up their Social Security, Medicare, or (for some) VA benefits. Businesses and major investors also get all kinds of tax incentives unavailable to ordinary people, and the wealthy Republicans are perfectly happy to get these government benefits. Also the majority of conservatives favor a strong military at the federal level.

So if conservatives think their trump card (no pun intended) is individual liberty, a lot of it actually doesn't work out that way in practice.

More to the point, I think the foundational liberal cause today is ethical: social justice-- from which social security may or may not follow. It makes no sense to anybody to want Big Government for its own sake. Arguably when the richest country in the world lets innocent little children go hungry or lets untreated mentally ill people live on the streets, there's been an ethical failure of private enterprise, families, religious institutions, free market capitalism, charity, or any other non-government source of help.

Freedom of expression might be a rich person's mantra, because a homeless kid is more worried about where his next meal is coming from. Democrats may exercise their freedome of expression by championing social justice causes.

Yes, there is a social security link with poverty and homelessness. I find it appalling however, to hear well-to-do Republicans complain about "income redistribution" as though they received no entitlements themselves from others' tax dollars.

There is not so much of a social safety-net connection with African American mothers not wanting their innocent sons to be gunned down by police. This isn't about a social safety net but about equal protection under the law. (Cf. the 14th Amendment.) Women serving in military combat positions, free from sexual harassment, doesn't have a social security component to it. Neither does the Endangered Species Act. Yet these are more liberal causes than conservative ones.

I also think we should stick to Uranus as such. Some of us do not conflate planets, signs, and houses. I accept Uranus as the modern ruler of Uranus, but not any necessary connection between by-the-numbers signs and houses except in medical astrology. A Scorpio 11th house, as in the OP chart, is going to be very different from an Aquarian 11th house.

It is interesting that Saturn rules the 2nd house of money (if Capricorn; plus traditionally if the 2nd house cusp is in early Aquarius.) Saturn ruling the 2nd house can mean financial hardship.

When the Revolutionary War ended, the new government had insufficient cash on hand to pay its mustered-out soldiers. So it hit upon the idea of giving them land out of the public domain instead of cash payments. This also fit well with the Jeffersonian idea of a nation of yeoman farmers. (Cf. the ruler of the 4th house in the 2nd.) Saturn is the planetary ruler of agriculture. Mars rules this chart's 4th house of land in the sense of one's home, and it is located in the 2nd house of one's personal assets.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we値l change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 06-05-2021 at 04:19 AM.
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