Love - but is chart valid?

Thanks for clarifying, Starlink:

Saggittarius is ruled by Jupiter and Neptune, like Aquarius by Saturn and Uranus

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I must say though, I haven't heard this in a long time. Uranus for Aqua, yes, Neptune for Piscis, yes, but Neptune for Saggie -- I remember something like that very, very dimly that I read this a looooong time ago. Never heard referred to that again in natal astrology. Interesting. (Neptune seems to have nothing in common with Sag. IMO, don't you think?)

Also, this is interesting, and I ever heard of it before.

In Derek Appleby's horary book it says: The Sun: The life-force, It is the point of destiny in any chart and in horary it has special influence over the life of the querent and his ultimate purpose in this state of consciousness.
In one of my books I also read: the Sun represents the heart of the chart, so I feel it is important in the overall feeling of a chart. Maybe saying "general significator" is not the best way to put it, but for me the Sun shows a general atmosphere, if you like, of a chart. Hope this clarifies things a bit.

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Which astrology book is this btw. Do you know off the top of your head? -- Thanks, Starlink, for all your great insights. You really make a chart come to life!

Also, did you read my comment on Mars being in HIS seventh, and my Moon in his 10th? What do you think of that?

AG, just to clarify something, when you say "in plain sight" you mean in a year or so, as Star said, or do you mean he is in plain sight now???

It's true, Tik, Mercury in 5th in Libra doesn't look like anything heavy or committed. But Jupiter that Mercury will make a sextile to IS in the 7th, which is HIS first. (Another indication btw. that I will have to meet him on his own turf)

Whitey, thanks for your good wishes! Always appreciated...

ceres

Hi Ceres76,

AG, just to clarify something, when you say "in plain sight" you mean in a year or so, as Star said, or do you mean he is in plain sight now???

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I don't think it's so easy to apportion a time frame in a question like this. Your question was: 'Will I ever...', and that can mean timing anywhere from tomorrow up until the day of your last breath, although this is taking it to either extreme.

The Moon applies immediately to Mars from angular houses. Angular houses can act swiftly. However, both the planets involved are peregrine, and this takes away some power to act.

Mercury applies to Jupiter, and Jupiter is very strong by domicile, and angular; but it's in a mutable sign, which slows things down. Mercury is in a cardinal sign, which speeds things up, but it's in a succedent house, which again, slows things down.

However, being that Mars is in the sign ruling the 1st house, and is in the sign ruling your domicile, it is likely that what is hidden is already in plain sight, as Mercury will apply by trine eventually.

I think you may meet this person through a female friend or colleague, as Venus, your 6th ruler, collects the light of Mars and Jupiter, and you apply to gather all of this from her. There is a lot of activity in your 4th house, which means that this will happen close to home for you; in your home town or immediate vicinity.

However, I would refrain from putting a time frame on things. It is a very human characteristic to want to know *exactly* when something will happen, but in the case of love, as we all know, searching around for it frantically within a time frame simply sends it further afield. Star is likely to be correct with the timing, but it would be my counsel to put that out of mind somewhere. Mars also rules 'self-undoing' in this chart, and that is a warning from the stars that I would heed.

Best,
AG

hmm Starlink

Neptune is a higher "octane" of Jupiter okay that is known
Uranus is a higher "octane" of saturn *logically, i do not see it but i have heard of it plus in horary saturn is taken"

but Neptune ruling or co-ruling Sag.. grrrr never heard of it! can you state sources?

You said
"This chart is not at all about action. It is a question about a certain experience, about a feeling of satisfaction that Ceres hopes to experience some day again.
If she would have asked:Will I ever go on a Himalaya trip with the next man in my life, then that would be action IMO."

feeling = dignity! it is caused by an action. Ceres is asking about a feeling of this love, therefore it is a dignity issue

Ceres

i HAVE horary charts that have failed. that is why i am extremly picky about phrasing the question and what answers you are seeking

cheers
Tik

Yes, you are right Tik, I confused the two. What I mean is that Pisces is ruled by Neptune and Jupiter of course.

Now, with the action part, you are getting me confused. First you say that there is NO action

then the house cusps are mutable and fixed. wishy washy - no action )

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and then you say:

feeling = dignity! it is caused by an action

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. I said all along that the chart was not an action chart because she did not do anything physical (and that is what I understand by "action"). Star.

Starlink, dear --

remember me - ceres? I actually posted this chart, and I had a question a couple of days ago regarding one of your answers... So once you have a moment in between sparrings with Tikana, perhaps you could answer me??

I asked about where it says that the sun is the heart of the chart:

Which astrology book is this btw. Do you know off the top of your head? -- Thanks, Starlink, for all your great insights. You really make a chart come to life!

Also, did you read my comment on Mars being in HIS seventh, and my Moon in his 10th? What do you think of that?

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Sorry to be a bother.

ceres

Ceres

Lilly says that
on top Jones in his book horary astrology has a chapter that is dedicated to testing the grain of the chart

Starlink, AG, and I go into technicallities pretty much all the time .. that is how we learn. if we were in the same city we would be sitting drinking cofee/tea and highlight horary books, right, girls?

Tik

starlink said:

Yes, you are right Tik, I confused the two. What I mean is that Pisces is ruled by Neptune and Jupiter of course.

Now, with the action part, you are getting me confused. First you say that there is NO action and then you say:. I said all along that the chart was not an action chart because she did not do anything physical (and that is what I understand by "action"). Star.

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To me, action is an event. to others, it could be a feeling.

the very first thing, as a horarist, i test the grain of the chart. Is chart readable? consideration of judgement, where are the planets.

2nd thing i test is the question clear? if a significator is in cadent house, to me in a lot of cases it represents either hidden agenda or the question is not phrased properly unless the question is related to that cadent house issue. like with the long term relaitonship question, moon and sun aare in cadent house but they are almost in 7th.

3rd thing.. all aspects are considered, antiscias, parts, parrallels and etc

but here is a minor flick in this chart. Back in the day, 5th house was a house of courtship. She can have that deep relationship but not have it for lifetime. they might break up. Then you need to consider that usually angles will tell you what is the time span.

what i meant to say is, let's say, you need some kind of reception from jupiter *jupiter sees merc from detriment" not good

then

if you look at it from 5th house, it is merc as ruler of 1st house ase well.. look at the condition of merc, it is in libra. she could be feeling excessivly romantic. vs real capricornian styl.. let's go back for a moment to merc.

Merc is in 1st decanade of libra! is merc showing up as excessivly romantic?
now let's look at jupiter
Jupiter is in sag in aries decanade. Do Jupiter and merc balance each other? no
there is no MR between them on top

Then ... moon sextiles mars.. so we have 2 sextiles. sextile is opportunity, success with effort. Positive.

here is where i am confused... "will i ever know ... ?"
and sextiles. Is the chart showing time or just describing the situation.

horaries last about 3 months. 0 = not within 3 months YET there are sextiles = we are talking weeks. that is where i am raising a question is the chart actually valid. Then there is mars ruler of 12th and intercepted ruler of 6th in 1st - more stuff to ponder about.

shrug
confused as usual
Tik

Starlink, AG, and I go into technicallities pretty much all the time .. that is how we learn. if we were in the same city we would be sitting drinking cofee/tea and highlight horary books, right, girls?

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Yes indeed!

I take a slightly different philosophical slant; because the question is 'Will I ever...?', the question's basic premise is, 'Will there be an opportunity...?', rather than 'where' or 'when' or 'with whom'. So, for me, the applying aspects (trines and sextiles) show us quite clearly, yes, there will be opportunities.

However, I also take Tik's view that the dignities of the planets say much about whether the querent will have 'strength of will' or impetus to take advantage of the opportunities, and what makes me wonder in this chart is that 12th-house-ruler Mars placed in the 1st. Why is Mars there, and why does the Moon, as co-ruler of the querent, apply to him first? Mars is the ruler of secrets, unknowables, and self-undoing, and it is in the sign that rules the querent.

So rather than focusing on whether the chart can be read (I believe it can), or *when* this love-event might happen (this wasn't asked about), I would rather focus on the state of the querent and probe into why Mars is there. Horary never tells us anything we don't need to know; it won't, for example, remark on the fact that you shouldn't eat too many french fries while answering a question about your finances. So Mars is there for a reason, and it is up to the discerning astrologer, in collusion with the querent, to figure out why the stars put the planet where it's at.

Best,
AG

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT TIK! Capuchino here I come!!

shrug
confused as usual

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I think that we are, as we so often inclined to do, are looking way too much into all the details. That's what confuses us in the end. We go into the psychological issues behind the real question where we should actually just concentrate on the YES or NO of it.
We could have stopped right after we decided: "Yes, there is a possibility"! don't you think?

Hi Ceres! My apologies to indeed having deviated a bit from your post, but I did answer the question about the "heart" of the chart. It is like Tik wrote:

Lilly says that
on top Jones in his book horary astrology has a chapter that is dedicated to testing the grain of the chart

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About the Moon in his 10th and Mars in his 7th. I honestly did not look at that because it does not really relate to the question.(I suppose you mean the eventual new love in your life? There is no (new)"him" yet, as far as I know, so it could at best be seen in the light of your actual partner or husband as the case may be.

Why is Mars there, and why does the Moon, as co-ruler of the querent, apply to him first? Mars is the ruler of secrets, unknowables, and self-undoing, and it is in the sign that rules the querent.

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. This is what AG asked and maybe it has to do with the fact that you, secretly, still love your partner or do you feel sorry for him? or want to stay with him? Do you work for him? (Moon in his 10th) and dont want to give this up? Maybe we need some more background info in order to answer this question.

starlink said:

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT TIK! Capuchino here I come!!

I think that we are, as we so often inclined to do, are looking way too much into all the details. That's what confuses us in the end. We go into the psychological issues behind the real question where we should actually just concentrate on the YES or NO of it.
We could have stopped right after we decided: "Yes, there is a possibility"! don't you think?

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Every chart is then POSSOBILITY. I am still unhappy with mars being in 1st. OTherwise i agree with you there, Starlink

i never looked at derived house ....

cheers
Tik

Hi Tik, good morning to you! No, I mean that in this chart the sextile aspect could be taken as "a possibility". Not every chart has such an aspect between the significators. With a square it would have been a plain NO in my humble opinion. Yes, I do look at derived houses for more info, but there again, digging, digging.

Curiously, Star.

Starlink, good morning

hmm can i nibble on your brain for a second?

Square means some kind of action will be taken BUT the answer is negative *UNLESS you have other points that are showing a possitive answer *
no aspect means no action nothing will turn up

yeah let;s wait till something happens

cheers
Tik

Square means some kind of action will be taken BUT the answer is negative *UNLESS you have other points that are showing a possitive answer *

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Yes, I think so too. When I see a square I also immediately look for dignity, angularity etc. between the two planets involved. Then the NO answer could change radically.

Hi Ceres, I must have been totally distracted since the last time I wrote here, will you believe that I had completely forgotten about it?
Here is the long awaited answer to your question. It was in Derek Appleby's book "horary Astrology".

About that Mars in his 7th. Mars is ruler of your 12th. You could be his public enemy no.1 at the moment LOL!! or he thinks that you are keeping a secret from him. Mars also rules your intercepted 6th house sign Scorpio. Some argument about work your maybe? Your Moon in his 10th, this is a tough one. It does not have to be YOU, it can also show a certain trend as the Moon shows general trends in a chart (apart from being used as co-ruler of the 1st) so there could be a change (Moon is changeable after all) in his career or his social circumstances very soon and is connected with that Mars of yours, because of the ingoing sextile between them, so the change probably has to do with you, undertaking some sort of action related to your work.
I would not know how else to interprete this. cheers, Star.

Hi Starlink!

Thanks for the belated reply... Forgot about it myself, lol.

The way you present Mars it's got to be my husband then... He certainly thinks - or thought at the time - that I am his enemy #1...

The rest of it, can't make sense of it really, and also, this chart is too old already, isn't it? Even though I asked a question that was open ended (time-wise), the 3 month rule still applies, or doesn't it?

Anyway, thanks, as always. Have to see if I can get a hold of Appleby's book.

ceres