Age of Aquarius May Not Be So Great

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
Pluto generations Leo (the Baby-boomers) vs. Sagittarius (millennials) will have a rivalry, because both are fire signs. When the Boomers were younger in the 1960s, they clashed with their elders: Pluto in Aries and Taurus generations (19th century) and Gemini (early 20th century). Taurus, Leo, Scorpio and Aquarius are fixed signs, while Taurus-Scorpio and Leo-Aquarius are opposites. Generation gaps when they have their own ideas of making the world a better place: the old establishment wants to preserve the status quo vs. the new youth about to inherit the world. Debates and arguments on politics, religion, economics and sociocultural beliefs, values, mores and rules tend to intensify in our endless culture wars involved differing generations, esp. if their Plutos are in fire signs (Aries, Leo and Sagittarius) or opposite fixed signs. Currently, Pluto is in Capricorn in between Sag and Aquarius, the calm before the storm, and right when we're entering the Aquarian age.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
CapAquaPis, excellent insight concerning the Pluto generations; I'm adding it to my store of astrological information. I do have one question: What exact setting of the Sidereal zodiac are you using to get the start-date for the Aquarian Age? The Standard Version uses the 1st Point of Spring when it reaches a sign-boundary, and if you believe the Age will begin when Pluto enters Tropical Aquarius, that would mean your setting of the Sidereal signs is about 6 degrees closer to the First Point of Spring than the Vedics or Modern Siderealists. Doesn't mean they're "right "--I'm just interested in any Sidereal setting used by a practicing Sideralist regarding the Aquarian Age and what that Sideralist is using as an Age indicator. I firmly believe the Age will affect each individual differently, depending on the Age-Indicator's House location and how it's Aspected in an individual's chart.
 
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CapAquaPis

Well-known member
David, Pluto has an irregular orbit, so it may stay in a sign longer than another. When Pluto was first discovered in 1930, it was in astronomical Leo and astrological Cancer, while most of the 1930s and 40s children are under Pluto in Cancer. Pluto was in Libra when I was born (Feb. 15, 1980), so the generation "Y" of the late 1970s-early 1980s are under the influence of Pluto in Libra. Pluto was in Gemini (opposite sign of Sag) in the turn of the 20th century-1900s and around WW1 (1914-18). And in between Taurus and Capricorn so far are the generation of Pluto in Virgo, the so-called generation "X"ers born between the years 1964 and 1975. The gen X were highly skeptical of government, but without the rebellion and social turmoil associated with Pluto in Leo Baby-boomers born in the 1950s. Correcting this post from reading ephemeris info. I obtained online, I learned the generation born under Pluto in Aries was the mid 19th century, long before the baby-boomers, but the Pluto in Aries era established America as it is.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Thanks! Pluto doesn't have the regularity of that amazing Neptune/Uranus combination. I'm in the Libra/Gemini group; I noticed the difference in friends born in the Libra/Cancer period. With a very Piscean chart, tracking Neptune was easy: Civil War,Aries; Land Rush and cattle ranching, Taurus; advancements in communication and transportation, Gemini; child-labor and food quality regulations, Cancer; World War I followed by the Roaring Twenties, Leo; the Great Depression and the start of WWII, Nep's "afflicted" position, Virgo; "Peace and Love" generation, Libra; the tumultuous "Soaring Sixties", Scorpio; the flamboyant, high-energy, visionary Seventies, Sagittarius; the expansion of Establishment Corporate power, Capricorn; the Knowledge revolution, Aquarius. And now, time to watch what happens with Nep in its own sign. Too bad it's paired with Uranus in Aries and Pluto in Capricorn (both bad fits), Uranus in Taurus much better. Anyway, thanks for reminding me about Pluto (Leo for me--toughens me up lol). With Moon and Venus in Aquarius in my 12th house, I'm fascinated by the Aquarian Age as a concept. With no planet in an Earth-sign, the idea of Earth's Ages connects me to the crutch called "Reality" lol! I'm going to correlate with Pluto, thanks to your helpful insight.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Um, just realized we've departed from this forum's topic, so I'll add this: The Age is the most shared of all Astrological influences; it's measured in centuries, not in decades. I view these outer-planetary permutations within the context of being on the cusp of the Aquarian Age--twists and turns, and ups and downs along the Road of Ages.
 

CapAquaPis

Well-known member
I'm a firm believer in the epoch theory: every 26,000 years of the 12 ages in astrology, it's actually an epoch of the history of humanity. Since the birth of Christ 2,000 years ago: the age of Pisces (or Virgo), we're in the transitional period in this age in the third epoch of humanity under the signs Cancer (or Capricorn). There were 6 manned lunar landings in 1969-72 on the Moon ruled by Cancer, and Capricorn indicates a scientific technological savvy epoch has began. Both the Saturn-Uranus ruled signs Capricorn and Aquarius are about research and discovery.

Then there are those astrologers who felt millennia has their signs: the first millennia AD was under Aries, the second under Pisces and now in the third we're under Aquarius. This is a 12,000 year cycle restarted 2,000 years ago and already 54,000 total years of modern humanity's history went by. The Age of Aquarius (or Leo) represents innovative, progressive and radical changes, while Leo represents the symbol of humanity became as "powerful as God" (scientific breakthroughs) or the Sun which rules the sign Leo and is the detriment for Aquarius.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Yes! The retrograde movement isn't the problem for Sideralism as it would be for Tropicalism,
since the constellations aren't numbered in seasonal order (which is why it's fortunate the Tropical Ages exhibit direct movement).

However, locating the Sidereal-sign boundaries is a serious problem
and that's where it's a real and important Matter of Opinion affecting not only when the Ages begin and end,
but where all the sign-indicators are located in the chart.
It's most noticeable regarding the Sidereal Age-indicator because of it's extremely slow shift in position,
but it changes all Sidereal indicator locations.
As usual, you've gotten to the crux of the situation.
There follows potentially useful and interesting info for you David Starling :smile:

QUOTE

'.....Ptolemy and Hephaestion, when they talk of the Zoidia, they begin their texts with the phrase
"the Dodekatemorion of Aries is...", "the Dodekatemorion of Taurus is...." and so on......'



QUOTE

'.....The Dodekatemorion concept was developed
so that boundaries between the zodiacal asterisms could be drawn,
since the zodiacal asterisms cover each other
and no clear boundaries exist on the sky....'
http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=165&sid=d122da6ce1ec1275013a9c7b3a045a5e
 

Oddity

Well-known member
Precise timing of this isn't really an issue in astrology, unless you are of the belief that the physical is a perfect representation of the spiritual.

I think most of us don't look at it quite that way, and certainly the ancients and the medievalists - and the very ancients, the ones who first realised this whole 'zodiac' thing - they didn't, either. That's why we have representational zodiacs.

Tropical ties to the seasons, sidereal (depending on the ayanamsa) ties to a fixed star - at the start. But it goes with the same 30 degrees per sign, and we know that isn't tied to the stars and constellations. To tie it directly to the stars, we'd have all different lengths of signs, because the constellations aren't even. This is where the '13th sign' folks are coming from.

But even if you believe the physical is the perfect form of the spiritual, we don't have orbital theory quite good enough to say that an age begins on such-and-such a day. Because that kind of statement is representational.
 

david starling

Well-known member
"Nutation" is a relatively fast back and forth movement that accompanies the much slower movement known as "precession". So in the case of Sideralism's Precession of the Equinoxes, Modern Siderealists use the "mean ayanamsa" instead of the yearly one. The overall movement is one degree retrograde in 71.6 years. It's a judgement call to use this Median point to regularize ayanamsa. This method is also used in regard to Dark Lilith, which is the location of the Lunar line of Apsides, where it crosses the zodiacal circle (the Ecliptic) at it's Mean Apogee. I'm using it as well, centering Gaia's Trident (see a description in the R&D forum) on the Mean Point of Earth's Perihelion. So, the Trident's first point moves from Tropical Capricorn into Tropical Aquarius in the year 2028; then the Nutation caused by the Moon swings it back into Capricorn. The Mean start-year for the Tropical-Trident Age is 2149; the Mean 27 degree Capricornian cusp was reached in 1975 (which I consider a threshold Chart-changer). All of which is to say you're correct about not really Knowing the "Hour and the Day". However, since I accept the Mean Point method as astrologically valid, I have no problem locating the Trident's Tropical-Sign positions, and House positions as well. I have my own informationally-informed-intuitional-opinion concerning "What It All Means" when it comes to the Ages. Atleast I don't have to get involved in the argument over where the Sign boundaries are, since I'm doing this Tropically.
 
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david starling

Well-known member
Mark, thanks for starting this thread. Excellent title, controversial but open to opinion. Something you wrote caught my undivided attention: "My thinking, as stated in numerous places, is that the big transition will be on the Capricorn /Aquarius cusp." That's where I believe we are now, Tropically . Might help if I explain how this method evolved. First, a very Piscean (Tropical) chart, and a tremendous attraction to the Aquarian Age coupled with easily seeing and feeling it's predecessor as Capricornian. Then the hypothesis that there just might be Tropical Ages as well. Then placing the two types of Zodiacs together, hold one fixed, let the other rotate; designate a Tropical sign-boundary to mark Sidereal Ages, already in place as the first point of Tropical Aries, and a Sidereal one to mark the Tropical Ages. For the Aquarian Age to resonate so strongly for Tropicalists, that would be the boundary between Sidereal Sagittarius and Capricorn. So, Precession would cause an Aquarian Age to occur simultaneously for both coordinate systems, one preceded by Pisces, the other by Capricorn; easily conflated with one another because of the lower Piscean (Capricornian) fish. Next, explaining the obvious overlap of Ages by using both first and last boundaries of Tropical Aries and Sidereal Sagittarius to designate foreground and background Ages. And, finally, noticing on a star chart that the center-line of Earth's elliptical orbit could be used to center a new creation, an Age Interval, replacing Sidereal Sagittarius. And, Siderealists could replace Tropical Aries the same way, since many of them don't believe there even is a Tropical Aries (!)
 
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craft94

Well-known member
Many of the aspects of society the Hippies of the 60s were attacking were, in fact, the Aquarian aspects: technology, a coldly impersonal and hyper-institutional society, etc. It seems to me that the 60s Counterculture was actually Aquarius' opposite, Leo, mixed in with non-Western Pisces Age spirituality.
.

That's what I always say! New Age hippies are actually a lot more "Piscean" than "Aquarian". I'd actually argue that they have a glamorized, Neptunian view of Aquarius....

I don't think any age is good or bad. It simply is what it is. Aquarius is all about revolution and humanitarianism, so I can understand, to some extent, why people romanticize it so much. It seems like people are finally "waking up". Hidden knowledge is being brought to light and a lot of society's negative influences will be destroyed as we move further on into the age, but it's naive to sit around and wait for some kind of magic Aquarian savior, when the Aquarian Age will bring it's own problems as well. It just kills me when New Agers talk about "Aquarius" when in reality, the Aquarian Age is more scientific and rational than anything else..

Aquarius is about community and technology and it's opposite sign, Leo, is all about individuality. In a way, so far, I'd say the internet is the "God" of this age. We use it as a way to showcase our narcissism while at the same time, getting caught up in groupthink and losing touch with our true selves.

I, too, suspect transhumanism will become the norm as this age progresses.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member

Mark, thanks for starting this thread.
Excellent title, controversial but open to opinion.

Something you wrote caught my undivided attention:

"My thinking, as stated in numerous places, is that the big transition will be on the Capricorn /Aquarius cusp."


That's where I believe we are now, Tropically . Might help if I explain how this method evolved. First, a very Piscean (Tropical) chart, and a tremendous attraction to the Aquarian Age coupled with easily seeing and feeling it's predecessor as Capricornian. Then the hypothesis that there just might be Tropical Ages as well. Then placing the two types of Zodiacs together, hold one fixed, let the other rotate; designate a Tropical sign-boundary to mark Sidereal Ages, already in place as the first point of Tropical Aries, and a Sidereal one to mark the Tropical Ages. For the Aquarian Age to resonate so strongly for Tropicalists, that would be the boundary between Sidereal Sagittarius and Capricorn. So, Precession would cause an Aquarian Age to occur simultaneously for both coordinate systems, one preceded by Pisces, the other by Capricorn; easily conflated with one another because of the lower Piscean (Capricornian) fish. Next, explaining the obvious overlap of Ages by using both first and last boundaries of Tropical Aries and Sidereal Sagittarius to designate foreground and background Ages. And, finally, noticing on a star chart that the center-line of Earth's elliptical orbit could be used to center a new creation, an Age Interval, replacing Sidereal Sagittarius. And, Siderealists could replace Tropical Aries the same way, since many of them don't believe there even is a Tropical Aries (!)
david starling, all posts are timed and dated
so
notice that Mark
to whom you addressed your comment
started this thread more than four and a half years ago on 6 March 2011 :smile:

and furthermore
any dialogue with Mark ended 4 February 2012
because according to Mark's profile page
that was the time of 'Last activity'
i.e.
Mark ceased activity on our forum nearly four years ago
 

I cee

Well-known member
.....what a great thread, because I have been thinking the very same thought!
I am appliying for jobs at the moment, and I am REALLY feeling the aquarian detachment thing.
Years ago when I would apply for the type of job that I am now applying for, it would be that the person who is your manager or supervisor, would be inducting the interview.....so you would be showing them what you know, why you would be good for the job etc, but now its really quite weird and very very impersonal.
Basically you have someone interveiwing you and writing notes which are then sent to HP, (note the hyphenation), everything is reduced to small letter, how very detached and impersonal.
So I am giving this person my soul, hoping they will see me, and she/he is just looking for the 'code' words that he/she can mail to the HP department......they don't know you.....they will not be working with you.....?
The questions are the same and they could be directed to a robot, in fact, I might as well of not been there!
If I got the job, I would be working with and under this person, and yet, she has no say in the final yes/no, its past on to another department, who knows nothing of the nitty/gritty job or me the potential employee who will be making the BIG COGG work.
I keep having this image....I know nothing of that era....but I will look into it, but I keep thinking of those fantastic paintings of the 20's, the art nouveau movement, on industrial revolution...forgive me if I have the era wrong, but I keep seeing this in my minds eye........and I know somethings wrong.
If we are to move into a new era, then surely we must not forget the fundemental/positive qualities of the pisean age and the opposing sign of aquarius.....we are all unique and together we are a force to be reckoned with.....but this must be done with the goodness of all and compassion of all.
We are not a faceless commodity that can be cast aside.......this will not do......as shown by revolutions for the people, so in the past for the virgo face of the pisean age.
We will become faceless and I do not think this is the future envisioned for our true destiny......I just hope we are in 'the nappy years' at the moment and eventuall we will get it together.
An astrologer once told me I would love the coming aquarian age because of my sagg influence.......but I am struggling and I feel like a foreigner in a foreign land.
The zodiac is an unfolding story and aquarius is just part and not the whole, we must remember this....there is the+ and the - of everything.
And then theres the business's using the vibe of the aquarian thing, ya know....lets all be a 'team' but still treat you all with no respect (leo) and you are one of the team (no identity) making you feel you are part of something.....but really you are just a "means to an ends" and mark my words......there will be repercussions of this.....people know when they are being used and abused.
IT has solved nothing in my view, it has just given the masses an excuse not to deliver true meaning.......'oh it must of got lost' or lets blame it on technology ,cos I can't be bothered to think
.......if we are so 'connected'....why are we texting instead of talking??
Its a dead end.....no back turn and its not the 'aha' we think its going to be.
.....the aquarian age is at best an infant.....drooling at the moment
 

david starling

Well-known member
[IMO] People are creatures of habit, and what the onset of the Aquarian Age is asking of us is so different, we are as yet unable to comply. But, we're getting there, little by little, by little by little....
 
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craft94

Well-known member
Job applications are usually online now and many interviews take place over the phone.

You go to a store, self check outs. You go to a restaurant, you can order your meal on a tablet.

Sex is impersonal too. You meet up with people on Tinder, hook up, and never see each other again. People are just bodies, objects to use and then

Everything is done online now. If it was up to me, I would throw my computer away, but I have to use it. There's no escaping. It's not that I don't like to use the internet. I'm using it right now. But it's distracting. I'm supposed to be writing a short story, not a boring activity, yet I have 5 windows open and can't stay focused on any of them.

I'm an introvert and in some ways, looking at Facebook by yourself feels like a more extroverted activity than hanging out with a small group of friends. I don't need to know all of this stuff. It gives me a headache. I'm an air sign, so I value communication, but real communication takes place when you're alone, with just one other person, imo. People are more likely to be themselves when no one is watching, but these days, everyone's watching, the government's watching, companies are watching, ads everywhere, its like the Illuminati all seeing eye thing, Big Brother 1984. Sometimes, I think we're entering the age of Capricorn. Facebook is performance. You might as well be on TV.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Craft, I am on no social media. Hey, it works for me.

The astrological ages are roughly 2000 years long, and there is some disagreement about when they start and stop. They are based on the precession of the earth's equinoxes, which gives them a retrograde motion. The previous age of Pisces is now followed by the age of Aquarius.

Depending whom you ask, the complete revolution takes about 24000 to 26000 years, or roughly 2000 years-plus in a given sign. http://www.crystalinks.com/precession.html

The next age (of Capricorn) should begin some time after the year 4000.
 

david starling

Well-known member
Waybread, these Ages you're talking about are manifestly Sidereal, and I believe you yourself are using the Tropical Zodiac. The Age i:confused:ndicator you just alluded to is the one and only Vernal Equinoctial Point, which locates 0° Tropical Aries. 2148 years from now (from the generally accepted, current rate of Equinoctial precession) it will still be at 0° Tropical Aries. Since it has no Tropical transit, it's of no Tropical value. So, "sorry Tropical Astrology, but, no Aquarian Age for you!" Not if it's based on precession of the Equinoxes. A lot of Siderealists, who could claim the Age of Aquarius for their own Zodiac, don't even bother with it--go figure. Vedic Astrologers don't use the V.E.P. for Ages, even though they could as well. They do have "Yugas" which last many thousands of years, but are calculated in mysterious ways, very likely involving some kind of use of Equinoctial precession. The Kali Yuga, now in it's final stage, is the worst possible Yuga, where we are experiencing the greatest lack of spiritual connection. Some say it began around 3100 B.C.E., and is either nearing an end, or has just ended. Next up...any Vedic Astrologers care to join in?
 
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