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  #1  
Unread 11-20-2011, 08:50 AM
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yassine01 yassine01 is offline
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When Saturn attacks

Hello everybody,

I have: Rising Moon in 1 afflicted by a square from Saturn at the cusp of 4. Can somebody please explain to me what this concretely means?

By the way, since my Moon is stuck to my ASC, can I consider my ASC afflicted by Saturn too?
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Last edited by yassine01; 11-04-2015 at 01:03 PM.
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Unread 11-20-2011, 09:55 AM
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Aaronmcc11 Aaronmcc11 is offline
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Re: When Saturn attacks

Saturn is the principle of restriction, limitation, inhibition, contraction. Attacking is a Martian verb.. Saturn 'withholds'. Saturn is also structure, responsibility and fortitude. It's lessons are not always pleasant, but necessary for growth and grounding.

In your chart you have Saturn at your IC, square the Moon/Asc. Keep in mind that this is only a 'phrase' in your chart, one piece of a whole unit.. further, how you deal with the energies represented by these placements is a matter of how well you understand and engage them.

Saturn in the 4th house opposition to your MC could be manifesting in a variety of ways, but the inner reaction is pretty universal.. it could manifest as a feeling of being unloved or unwanted. This is usually most evident in the home growing up.. the child feels that a parent, usually the father, is emotionally distant or cold, unloving. The parent could even be absent.

I have Saturn conjunct the IC in the fourth, square the Moon/DC. In my case, my father was completely absent from my life, and until much later in my life I actually never had ANY strong male influence.

In your case maybe your father is there, but is rigid and reserved, over-practical, or controlling. (Could be your mother too). Or perhaps the parent is NOT those things, but you either perceived them to be while growing up, or there is at least some sense you had that you were never loved as much as you needed to be.

I feel that the Moon-Saturn square is maligned in many texts.. there are all types of gloomy interpretations about being lonely forever and never being able to express ones emotions or be self-reliant. While these traits are no doubt exhibited by many, or even most people with the square, what the traditional and cookbook interpretations fail to recognize is the growth and self-realization that can be achieved. Yes, you may have trouble being self-reliant, yes, you may feel like the lonliest person on Earth at other times. It's ok to feel that way.. it's ok to be really sad sometimes. What I've realized is that if you are always searching for that emotional security you need outside of yourself, you will most often be disappointed to find that there's only so much that another person can do for you. At some point you have to find that sense of belonging within yourself. You have to KNOW that you ultimately are not alone and THAT is what will teach you to be able to be close to other people without expecting them to carry your emotional burdens with you.

This feeling of isolation is probably especially strong for you right now because transiting Saturn is conjunct your natal Moon and Ascendant, and is square you Natal Saturn. All of these indicate times of withdrawal from close relationships, the world, and even your own emotions and self. It represents a crisis of foundation where you are seeing the things that are not working in your life in glaring contrast.

The choice is yours ultimately.. Saturn is only presenting you with an opportunity. Often times it feels like your just carrying a lot of weight around on your conscious. So the opportunity is to carry your own burden for the time it takes and learn why this important. Someone has to do it and it's going to be you. But don't worry so much!!! It's all going to be ok. We all need some attention and there are good indicators in your chart that life will not always be lonely and difficult. You have many amazing qualities and if you are honest with yourself about WHO you are and you don't let the past hold you back there is nothing to keep you from being happy and fulfilled.
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Unread 11-20-2011, 02:49 PM
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Re: When Saturn attacks

A11, nicely stated!
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Unread 11-20-2011, 07:03 PM
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Re: When Saturn attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by yassine01 View Post
Hello everybody,

I'm worried about this one hard aspect I have: Rising Moon in 1 afflicted by a square from Saturn at the cusp of 4. Can somebody please explain to me what this concretely means, is it a bad indication for longetivity? Somebody told me it's more like an indication of poverty and a lifetime solitude. Is he right? [ death or longevity cannot be seen or predicted in a natal chart]

By the way, since my Moon is stuck to my ASC, can I consider my ASC afflicted by Saturn too?
Only the fact that saturn squares your Asc, which will probably knock your confidence espec in childhood. It can suggest mother or father experiencing financial shortages, which rubbed off on you

May I suggest you read the 'welcome to the world of astrology’ and other ---sticky' at the top of this forum? It has some great explanations, links etc. At the top of every forum there are lots of ‘stickys’ which explain matters in that forum, along with guidelines & tips

There is a 'plethora' of information on AW, espec in the 'stickys' at the top of every forum, our Education forum and Recommendations forum to. Plus we have a good search feature,[but not foolproof obviously, so try here first] bit like google using keywords – initially select advanced and try just selecting 'titles' rather than posts
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Unread 11-20-2011, 09:04 PM
twelthnight twelthnight is offline
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Re: When Saturn attacks

Hi again,

Just some experience with hard moon/saturn aspects (i have the tight conjunction) I believe there is no getting around the fact that there will be hardships (i.e. at the end of your life you will look back at one or more particular times when you can see this lesson came up in sharp relief-most probably around major saturn transits)) with saturn/moon. But the number and frequency of them (hardships, not transits ) is up to you...also how you deal with misfortune. You won't come up again and again in life for this lesson if you manage to learn and grow. Saturn asks us to not only work hard, but work smart...with the moon, you need to be working hard, living a life that reflects who you really are and nourishes your spirit. If you choose to ingnore what your moon needs and tirelessly work in the wrong direction, problems will arise again and again. This is just my opinion, so of course anyone is welcome to disagree... I think though, if you've got real grit, there is nothing to fear in this aspect.

Key words that come to mind here (that have helped me with my moon/saturn) are Dignity and Gravitas ...but that's probably because my conjunction is in Leo

Last edited by twelthnight; 11-20-2011 at 10:41 PM.
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Unread 11-20-2011, 09:34 PM
MaeMae MaeMae is offline
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Re: When Saturn attacks

mars attacks. saturn slowly infiltrates. usually the realization of saturn's effect comes when the grim reaper says enough is enough. he draws a line in the sand and waits for one to cross it. he doesn't really attack, one just walks into it - it that has been there all the time - ignored until it can't be ignoredanymore.
somewhere in there, saturn aspects to moon are asking for readjustment to emotional realities. all that we know and feel and have integrated on our lives are called to the carpet at some point. the question always ends up. "how's that working for you?"
often the intrepidation that saturn infuses is attached to the same ladder that saturn offers to a better way of coping and living.
saturn never throws a punch that we didn't see coming months or years in advance.
if it feels like an attack, it's because we didn't see the thugs standing on the corner as a threat as we walked naively towards them. saturn moon requires emotional proactivity ~ not so much about fear and avoidance as it is about readiness and knowing what our protective measures need to be.
i think ultimately, saturn moon is about taking over the reigns of emotional bondage, fear and paralysis and guiding them away from "how it's always been" and directing them toward what authentically works for you.
that's where saturn trumps moon. he will openly allow you to cling to the old ways and instilled beliefs about your life, all the while feeling like a wool sweater on naked skin.
asking ~ is this worth the emotional cost to continue as is?
by hook or by crook, saturn trumps the personal planets' influence on our willingness and commitment to get out of dodge.
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Unread 11-20-2011, 09:44 PM
twelthnight twelthnight is offline
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Re: When Saturn attacks

[QUOTE=MaeMae;333247
if it feels like an attack, it's because we didn't see the thugs standing on the corner as a threat as we walked naively towards them. [/QUOTE]

Hahaaa! Love this, so true!
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Unread 11-20-2011, 10:26 PM
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Re: When Saturn attacks

Quote:
Originally Posted by yassine01 View Post
Thank you very much sir, you're right, it's a little bit disturbing how accurate and mediumnic astrology can be. I grew up with only 3 sisters, my mother and a nanny. We were a very introverted and overprotective family with few contacts outside. My father was a busy man, always at work, he's a little misognystic and thought rising children was his wife's business, he didn't want to deal with children at all.
As a result I can never be misogynistic myself, I'm much closer to women and understand them better. Almost all my friends are females, I think I only have two or three male friends who are quite original and defy the stereotype.
Lately, my older sister has attempted to build a bridge between me and my dad, because he secretely asked her to. I live far away and now he feels a little bit guilty about neglecting my education. Like all fathers he misses his children but he's emotionally stupid, he always has the wrong reaction in a given situation, where he is asked to sympathize he gets angry and conceals his feelings. He's a Capricorn Sun rising Scorpio.
It's good that your father appears to be trying to bridge that gap.. it's too bad that he can't talk to you himself but perhaps you two will be able to forgive and forget.. let bygones by bygones. On the other hand, you may never have the emotional connection that you desire with your father, but don't let it get in the way of your own growth.

I think what Maemae said.. and specifically:
Quote:
"i think ultimately, saturn moon is about taking over the reigns of emotional bondage, fear and paralysis and guiding them away from "how it's always been" and directing them toward what authentically works for you."
and what twelthnight said..
Quote:
If you choose to ingnore what your moon needs and tirelessly work in the wrong direction, problems will arise again and again.
.. are both things that you should keep in mind in when you're focusing on how you would like to make some positive changes.

Quote:
By the way, I saw your chart, it looks quite epic. Both your luminaries (Sun & Moon) are afflicted by Saturn, but you seem to be a strong Leo with the Sun rising in 1. The Aquarius Moon at the cusp of 7 can be interpreted as the typical aspect of humanism. Ever thought about becoming a politician someday? Anyway it's one of the most remarkable charts I've ever seen, pretty uncommon I reckon.
Thank you.. of course as a double Leo I am flattered. I think that I would make a good politician in the sense that I want to be seen by people and that I am a good speaker with innovative ideas about social reforms.. Unfortunately todays politician is focused a lot more on appearances and good speeches, and actual social reform falls to the wayside. I think that my views on 'politics' are too radical for the present state and would certainly stand in the way of actually becoming a politician if the system remains unchanged. However, in the future if (when) there is a change I think that it's pretty likely that I will be involved in some sort of social reform movement. Hopefully, though, everyone will be to some extent.
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