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  #1  
Unread 06-30-2006, 03:17 PM
Miss Saturn Miss Saturn is offline
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Venus Conjunct Pluto Saturn squaring both

My boyfriend has Venus Conjunct Pluto with Saturn squaring both how would I intepret this. Two heavy planets on his Venus what sort of influence would this have. With the two heavy planets squaring eachother.

Venus Conjunct Pluto
Venus Square Saturn
Saturn Square Pluto

Any interpretations on this?

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Unread 06-30-2006, 06:30 PM
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relationships

Miss,

With Venus (relationships) in stress to both Saturn (duty) and Pluto (transformation, also control), there could be challenges in relationships about being responsible and being in control. The solution is to be responsible (dependable) in relationships and to share control in relationships.

Relating,

Tim
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Unread 06-30-2006, 07:06 PM
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Re: Venus Conjunct Pluto Saturn squaring both

Hello, Miss Saturn Thanks for your reply, and I would like to wish you good luck in the future as well!


I'm not any expert or anything, but I think these aspects would be better off being analyzed separately..as three different ones. By combining the interpretation for each, maybe you can get a better understanding of its overall effect?

These interpretations are from Canopus.
I downloaded my copy of the program from [a href=http://www.clairvision.org/ckb/ckbe/ckbc/fol_0000_0700/cat_0000_2222/Canopus.exe]here[/a] in case you'd like to have it, too.


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What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

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Last edited by wilsontc; 04-23-2011 at 11:23 PM.
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Unread 06-30-2006, 07:14 PM
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Re: Venus Conjunct Pluto Saturn squaring both

Maybe the interpretations provided by a book I have "aspects in astrology" by sue tompkins could be helpful as well. Lol, I do this for everybody.

p.s. u should read this for urself too, since you have venus square pluto.

As the author describes in this book, the key themes in an aspect are the same regardless of its nature. The only thing the nature of the aspect, as in whether it is a square, opporisition, trine, sextile, conj etc, highlights in further detail is in what ways the energies are working together, but generally the overall things noted by the aspect are the same (the are esp. the same themes in tense aspects, and the same recurring themes in harmounious ones) Anyways, this is something the author has noticed, and not something that I personally, know about lol.

play close attention when she says that something happens only especially with certain "natures" of the aspect. She'll mostly say this for oppositions, squares, and conjunctions.
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When lighting strikes the sea, why donīt all the fish die? Hahaha

What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]
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Unread 06-30-2006, 07:15 PM
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Venus Conju-pluto from "Aspects in Astrology" by s

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that's enough wirting for today. lol i just copied that from a book. hopefully later ill have time to post the 2 other descriptions. let me know if it was hepful at all....


p.s. i have venus square pluto as i know you do, too and a lot of the above does apply to me! ...sadly enough. it actually made me kind of depressed. lol


till later,
Mabel
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When lighting strikes the sea, why donīt all the fish die? Hahaha

What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]

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Unread 06-30-2006, 10:36 PM
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Re: Venus Conjunct Pluto Saturn squaring both

Thank you Mabel,

Great information you have given me lots I can work with.

Quote:
*Love and destruction:
Pluto's symbolism of death and resurrection, when transposed into
the Venusian field of relationships, can make the person attracted
to destructive things or people; it can also give a tendency to
destroy the things one loves.
My partner was in a very bad relationship before me. His ex wife had violent outbursts was extremely manipulative and needed to be in control. I managed to get her birth data off soliciters papers because they were going through a divorce. She had a Mars Pluto aspect in her chart. I think maybe this is why they were attracted to eachother, both dealing with plutonian energy. Also why I was probably attracted to him as well. with my Venus Square Pluto. Like attracts like. There is no real baddie in all of this I don't think she should take all the blame for the relationship going wrong they both have pluto energy that needed to be worked out somehow.

Quote:
*If your partner has a major Venus-Pluto aspect:
Perhaps even more than with any other major aspect to Pluto, you
will need to descend into your deep Pluto side in order to match
your partner. But will you be able to cope?
What you said here about descending deep into your pluto side in order to match your partner, I haven't heard a Pluto description described this way you really made me think about that one. It was strange because as you know being a venus pluto, in the past especially between the ages of about 13yrs old to 26yrs old I had a very intense love nature I felt this nature even from that age possibly younger, I attracted really horrible experiences as a child, at that young age I couldn't understand it, let alone deal with it.

Lately I haven't felt my intense nature, I don't know whether I am suppressing my pluto or those feelings have been dealt with. Maybe nothing has really tested me to bring up any intense feelings. It is something that I have questioned lately. Could I cope with it again I don't really know. would I have to go through it again to know if I have transformed. I have been to hell and back in a relationship before could I or would I go there again.

Here is an explanation I read on Venus-Pluto

At a very deep level your whole idea of what love is and is not, is having to go through a major process of transformation. Your love nature as described here, has taken on the task of bringing into the light the most fearsome, ugly and taboo ridden aspects of human nature-in yourself and others. This is challenging indeed, and it is therfore not surprising that your life is cratered with crisis of no mean magnitude. Can you still love in the face of death, be it in the death of a cherished ideal, a social norm, or of love or a loved one.

Quote:
*The Venus-Saturn depth of feeling:
Venus is the planet of feeling but by herself can be light and easy
- a flibberty-gibbet. Saturn adds depth. In the emotional sphere,
this means feelings will be lasting, deep and sincere. This can be
related to the earth element of Saturn. But Saturn is not all earth;
it is also air-structure. This can lead to much more elaborate, or
even complicated, feelings and emotions - not as in a confused mess
but as in a refined, sophisticated inner environment, which can only
add to the charm of Venus.
I feel my partner expresses his Saturn venus more than his pluto one. He does have really deep sincere feelings for me. When he tells me he loves me I know he really means it. Maybe he is expecting me to express his/my pluto love nature. He has said to me he wouldn't care if I treated him badly he would still love me. Maybe he is wanting me to release the pluto energy into the relationship. Not consciously but unconsciously, if you get what I mean. I would never want to treat him badly in any way, I do worry about comments like this, love isn't about one person being loving while the other person walks all over them. As Tim said you have to share the control in the relationship.

Quote:
*Feelings inhibited:
Saturn, the planet of limits, may impede the Venusian flow of
feelings. This can be just a touch of reserve and caution
The reationship nearly ended because I couldn't really tell if he liked me or not, he was very reserved at the beginning of the relationship. I'm glad I stayed with him because hiding under Saturn was the most loving caring person I had ever met, thank god I gave it extra time.

Quote:
The danger of suppression:
Pluto needs to transform. If Saturn is allowed to impede these
transformations, the result may be a climax of frustration, with
suppressed anger and teeth grinding. The native goes through periods
of feeling trapped as if in a cage.
Wow this was exactly the right interpretation, I was looking for, you really explained the energies of the planets to me, I couldn't get the interpretation myself. Saturn being suppression this is the energy I see him using, this Saturn could possibly impede the transformation of pluto. I don't see him really expressing his Pluto side. Maybe he has learned to use his energies positively, but if he hasn't I think this supression would be the problem.

Thank you very much I shall use all this information you gave me, to look at it even further, all of it was very helpful and being a Venus Pluto myself it gives me more explanation on my love nature. I will have a read through your next post and shall give you another reply.

Last edited by Miss Saturn; 07-01-2006 at 09:16 PM.
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Unread 06-30-2006, 11:07 PM
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Re: Venus Conjunct Pluto Saturn squaring both

Mabel,

Have you ever read the book by Robin Norwood Women Who Love Too Much.

I think this book was written for Venus Pluto, Mars Pluto and even females with a Sun Pluto aspect.

Here is what is written on the back for a quick explanation for you to what it is about.

Is having somebody to love the most important thing in your life? Do you constantly believe that with the right man you would no longer feel depressed or lonely? Are you bored with nice guys who are open, honest and dependable?

If being in love means being in pain, this book was written for you. Therapist Robin Norwood describes the patterns of thoughts and behavior which certain women develop as a response to problems from childhood.

Many women find themselves repeatedly drawn to into unhappy and destructive relationships with men. They then struggle to make these doomed relationships work. This best selling book takes a look at how powerfully addictive these unhealthy relationships are-but also gives a very specific recovery from the disease of loving too much.


Don't know if I am allowed to recomend books. I also have the follow up.
If anything these books look at the psychology behind the behavior.You might not ever need them. I hope when you get into a relationship you are in a healthy one. Like attracts like, us venus pluto people have to really work on loving ourselves first.

I will post you tomorrow on the other interpretations of Venus Pluto that you posted.

Last edited by Miss Saturn; 06-30-2006 at 11:44 PM.
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Unread 07-01-2006, 01:17 AM
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Re: Venus Conjunct Pluto Saturn squaring both

Wow i think i'll check out that book. It sounds a lot like me...even if i've never been in a disastrous relation..or any relationship at all for that matter. And i'm really glad you really stripped apart all i posted and put it to good use! I feel...helpful now ^^lol

I can't wait till you get to the second part though...I think it explains venus-pluto really well...even if the truth does hurt =/

Hmm...and the venus-saturn part you pointed out, about how saturn adds depth to venus is totally new to me. That's a really good thing to hear b/c I've always been resentful of having that aspect lol. It definitely makes me appear cold and uncaring when I want to appear the opposite, and really this only heappens when i really DO want to appear the opposite! The way you described how you didn't know if ur bf liked u or not b/c he'd act so reserved *in the beginning* totally sounds like me...and i'd imagine a lot of the guys i've tried to lead on to end up totally confused. lol which they have.

Ok, yay, until later when u read the rest. Love!

Mabel
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When lighting strikes the sea, why donīt all the fish die? Hahaha

What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]
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Unread 07-01-2006, 03:35 PM
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Re: Venus Conju-pluto from "Aspects in Astrology" by s

Hi Mabel,

I am back to disect some more and dig deep into my psyche, find whats underneath there and shed light upon it.

Emotionally insatiable, yes strongly identify with this, especially when I was a bit younger, nobody could fill that deep dark hole inside of me. I was expecting relationships to fulfill me to fill in the emptiness, not sure if I felt empty but deeply depressed dark energy surrounding my Venus and how I should value myself. Was I lovable this was a big issue for me. Events from my childhood played a large part in the depressed energy I was feeling. I would question why did these experiances happen to me didn't I deserve to be loved and valued. I realize now I didn't need to question my loveability, I do deserve to be loved I am lovable, but you have to believe this deep down in your soul and not look for someone to fill this love for you.

I do have this sort of contradictary personality, with the poor self image of how loveable I feel, but if I am rejected I feel quite shocked I think "how could you resist me" ha ha I must think I'm irresistable with all my charm and sexuality. Hot Stuff

I haven't been afraid of such an intense relationship, I guess it is my intense emotions needing an outlet. A very negative outlet but the energy had to be released somewhere, this is why it is so important to find positive releases for these powerful energies.

Even though I don't relate in the unhealthy way I used too, Love still has to be very deep for me and if a man is prepared to die for me, I take that as the ultimate token of love.

Very true who can really handle all of this intensity on a day to day basis, you wouldn't be able to breathe.

I can be insanely jealous if I thought my boyfriend thought another woman was attractive I would go mad. Lucky for him he's not like that.
But I would never show my Jealousy because I would think if he knew I was jealous I would lose my power in the relationship.

This is me all over as you can see now I am analyzing every part of my relationships "the why and the wherefore" If there is a problem I like to strip it down and see what the issues are and try to deal with it. I guess this can be exhausting for whoever I am with, but how else can you deal with it.

Ultimately I want to transform my relationships I want to relate in a healthy way. I hope I am growing towards this way of relating every day.

Thought I would end on the major lesson for us venus pluto girls "letting go".
Letting go of the need to get love not using power, sexuality, whatever means you think you need to use in order to keep love. Let things be, if a person loves you they will love you for the person you are inside, not for what you can give them not for your looks sexuality and money. As this excellent description for Venus Pluto explains give the other person enough space to see if they do really care, discover if they will hang around even if they don't have to.

Great description thanks for that I will copy a couple of pages out of my books to help describe the addictive relationships, I know you haven't been in a relationship yet but you may find it useful in understanding the venus pluto. The psychology behind why we are intense, why our love nature is quite dark.
It is quite heavy reading because it will touch a lot of nerves. A lot of issues can resurface. A big step towards transforming our love is to become conscious and aware of ourselves. This may be very difficult to face but at some time in our life we will have to in order to heal and find the happiness we deserve.


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Last edited by wilsontc; 04-23-2011 at 11:26 PM.
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Unread 07-01-2006, 04:20 PM
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Exclamation Re: Venus Conjunct Pluto Saturn squaring both

Warning! Some heavy reading up ahead!

This taken from the book Women Who Love Too Much.

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I will post more through later if your interested, I think although it was not meant to an astrological description, for me because I have read the whole book, and the following one, It describes the psychology behind the Venus Pluto and probably some of the other pluto aspects.

The books go into childhood issues, it is heavy reading maybe this is all too much for you at the moment because you are younger. I hope some of it is helpful.

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Unread 07-01-2006, 07:14 PM
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Smile Re: Venus Conjunct Pluto Saturn squaring both

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Saturn
If you have ever found yourself obsessed with a man, you may have suspected the root of that obsession was not love but fear. We who love obsessively are full of fear-fear of being alone, fear of being unloveable and unworthy, fear of being ignored or abandoned or destroyed. We give our love in the desperate hope that the man with whom we are obsessed with will take care of our fears. Instead, the fears-and our obsessions-deepen until giving love in order to get it back becomes a driving force in our lives. And because our strategy doesn't work we try, we love even harder. We love too much.
I could relate to all of it, including what you said about the venus-pluto stuff i gave u from the book. I definitely have to get to every why and wherefore, even in the friendships i have right now. With best friends, especially I analyze everything leaving no leaf unturned. You know how it said a venus-pluto might just be too afraid and like venus-neptune or venus-uranus might avoid relationships altogether? I'm not exactly afraid of the deep intensity thing, b/c that's what i want, what we both want, i'm just scared of any rejection, so yea i'm not willing to se if the other person really likes me for me..will really hang around, so i weave a magical web of fantisies around them venus-neptune) avoiding and actual relationship..but still thinking in my head that one day we will get together and live out that little dream of mine. Like it says, too, i demand their presence, but would rather not have a relationhip at all ... I'd MUCH rather just fantasize about being with them even though that's not what would make me happy! That really is my problem. not wanting to give up control for fear that they would reject me, but most importantly..preferring to keep thm at arms length..or even to keep myself and them guessing of the possility of the relationship..with really ever wanting to confront having one because of again, a fear of rejection or as you said "being unloveable."

I have to go to tampa now, and i'm not sure if i want tohear the childhood things from the book. I think i'll just check it out! well...ha after i've read and returned the 10 books i have on hold for me at the library. oh yea and returned the one i currently have. you could add some childhood issues about the unloveableness tho and why one might have felt they were that way bcuz of those childhood things. Thank you!!

Goodbye now=)
Mabel
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When lighting strikes the sea, why donīt all the fish die? Hahaha

What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]
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Unread 07-01-2006, 07:38 PM
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Lightbulb after tampa..

oh yeah, when i come back...which'll be in about 2 days, I'll type up the venus-saturn thing from my book for you!


Peace!
n
<3!

Mabel
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When lighting strikes the sea, why donīt all the fish die? Hahaha

What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]
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Unread 07-02-2006, 10:20 AM
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Re: Venus Conjunct Pluto Saturn squaring both

Enjoy yourself in Tampa Mabel, and yes I will leave out the childhood issues I was at first going to put them in, but I did think twice because of your age.
I forget how old you are because your such an intelligent witty young girl for your age. Way ahead of most girls.

You can do so much with your life don't waste it worrying about relationships just yet focus on yourself and the life you want, and look after yourself sweetie.

Till Later, Miss S
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Unread 07-02-2006, 04:28 PM
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Re: Venus Conjunct Pluto Saturn squaring both

Hello

I've been keeping an eye on this thread, very interesting! I too have venus/pluto contact, and have recently been questioning how 'active' this aspect is in my life.

I have 3H libra pluto square 7H aqua venus. As you'll notice, they're both air pacements, and I believe this tends to make the sqaure a little less intense than it may be otherwise

However, Pluto is loosely conjunct 4H scorpio Jupiter, which also sqaures venus. The introduction of scorpio jupiter to the mix livens things up a little!

I don't relate to much of what has been said in this thread, but I'm not sure how much of that is because other natal chart factors mitigate it, I choose not to act in that way, or because I simply don't "see" myself do it.

The one thing I can see myself doing though, is this!

"The venus-pluo person usually has a talent for dealing with ppl in such a way as to make each person believe that they are the most important person in the world to them"

what's wrong with treating everyone so special, I ask?! I would never mislead on purpose, and any expression of affection or interest is truly felt and meant. Nevertheless I tend to run into some confusion with people who can't understand what it means that I am so, um, demonstrative? engaging? something?

There seems to be an incongreunce between me wanting and inviting such intensity with people and (some of) them being unable to understand why or what it is I want, why I would choose to relate so openly. I guess the incongruence is that I DO want that much intensity with people, I tend to go straight from "hello" to "show me what you care about" with people, but it's not necessarily in a single file, committed long term relating fashion

Actually, the more I think about it, I often invite those intense connections into my life, knowing full well that I can move away from them if I need to, becuase I have a whole smorgasboard of people to relate to. I only become afraid, or jealous, etc, when (on the VERY rare occassion) that a person I feel very attracted or close to, and who has opened up to me, then 'pulls out'. And yes, I can't believe that they would do so!!

There are very few people at any one time who I consider myself 'very' close to, and so it suprises me that they can't always see how important that relationship is to me.

However, I don't identify as being insatiable, unlovable, etc, generally I feel much more independent, balanced and confident within myself. So, it's all there, but the worse aspects tend to get "triggered" rather than existing constantly, and I'm always suprised when it happens.
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Unread 07-02-2006, 07:32 PM
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Re: Venus Conjunct Pluto Saturn squaring both

Hi Howl,



Quote:
I have 3H libra pluto square 7H aqua venus. As you'll notice, they're both air pacements, and I believe this tends to make the sqaure a little less intense than it may be otherwise
Seventh house Venus in aquarius, possibly modifys it slightly for you because you are endeavouring to introduce a measure of detatchment and freedom into your relationships, you can require a lover to be a friends, for when such is the case you are able to look at eachother as human beings with individual ways of living rather than being extensions of, and totally answerable to, eachother.

Maybe you like to relate more by having really intense conversations because venus pluto are both in air placements. Conversation wise you can be quite the charmer. Maybe because the signs are hamonious it may soften it, but you should still feel it to a certain extent it is still a square.

My Venus is in Capricorn 5th House/ Pluto Libra 2nd House.

Quote:
"The venus-pluo person usually has a talent for dealing with ppl in such a way as to make each person believe that they are the most important person in the world to them"

what's wrong with treating everyone so special, I ask?! I would never mislead on purpose, and any expression of affection or interest is truly felt and meant. Nevertheless I tend to run into some confusion with people who can't understand what it means that I am so, um, demonstrative? engaging? something?
There is nothing wrong in taking interest in people, maybe some people may percieve it as overbearing maybe because your venus and pluto are in air signs you can powerfully relate to people maybe you talk in a deep and profound way. You are intensely interested in them. This way of relating is natural to you, but some people may be very closed and might not want you delving into their lives and into the every why and wherefore of thier life.

Quote:
Actually, the more I think about it, I often invite those intense connections into my life, knowing full well that I can move away from them if I need to, becuase I have a whole smorgasboard of people to relate to. I only become afraid, or jealous, etc, when (on the VERY rare occassion) that a person I feel very attracted or close to, and who has opened up to me, then 'pulls out'. And yes, I can't believe that they would do so!!

There are very few people at any one time who I consider myself 'very' close to, and so it suprises me that they can't always see how important that relationship is to me.

However, I don't identify as being insatiable, unlovable, etc, generally I feel much more independent, balanced and confident within myself. So, it's all there, but the worse aspects tend to get "triggered" rather than existing constantly, and I'm always suprised when it happens.
You have lots of people to relate to because of your Aquarius seven/venus. At some level you do feel the fear of rejection. Feeling quite hurt you opened up to let someone in and then they have pulled out because it was too intense for them, you don't understand this because you naturally relate in this way, and so feel slightly rejected.

Also because of your 7th Venus/Aquarius You have a sense of committment to your own principles that overrides emotional game playing.( which Venus Plutos usually do)

This is maybe why you don't relate to it as strongly.
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Unread 07-03-2006, 01:08 AM
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Re: Venus Conjunct Pluto Saturn squaring both

Thanks Miss Saturn, that all sounds right about on target, actually

Transiting pluto is just moving out of conjunction with my sun/mercury, which I think may have something to do with why this kind of attraction/rejection thing has 'come up' in the last five years or so.

And yes I do relate intensely, and do find it disappointing when people choose to keep in on "surface level" (I feel like we're wasting time ) but I do hope that I can judge reactions well enough not to intrude.

The biggest problems that I've had with it are realising that I have secretly indescructible attachment to boyfriends after we have broken up (dammit!!) Trying to 'convert' them into close friends is a very very difficult thing to do

I can't imagine being so close to someone and then nothing, and yet moving from lovers to friends does not seem to come naturally, even though I seem to believe that it should or it needs to.

That is one way in which energy "squares" between 3H pluto and 7H venus!

The friendship/lover contention also turns up in my chart with 11H gemini moon opposite 5H sagittarius uranus.

Thanks again for looking at my sqaure
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Unread 01-27-2008, 03:07 PM
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Re: Venus Conjunct Pluto Saturn squaring both

i have venus conjunct pluto in scorpio. this article couldn't be more true even if they tried. amazing. was that all there was?
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