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Unread 04-02-2013, 05:24 PM
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Adult bullying

In my schooling years I never really had problems with bullying. It began the moment I entered young adulthood and the workforce and I have experienced it ever since. Even people from my past who were good to me have now become horrible to me since the age of 18. I understand that pluto in the 12th house conjunct sun and saturn is common for bullying. Also my mid heaven squares pluto and Saturn. Mars is square chiron, Uranus, Jupiter and moon.
I find im forever in a no win situation where im having to defending myself for no good reason, that im a target, ppl gang up on me and as a result I lose. Ive thought of working alone but this is very lonely for me.
I was told to look at good aspects to pluto to help. I have Neptune and venus sextile pluto - how would that help with bullying.
Am happy to put chart up if necessary. Am very depressed at the moment thinking there is no way out. Im sick of people targeting me when im a good person. Then when I defend myself it just fuels their anger even more to a point where they want to be violent with me and I have to run to safety before they do something crazy. It's true that pluto in 12th house attracts bullies by far. Can anyone tell me if I have the ability to overcome this. Im losing hope because im coming across more and more individuals attempting to take advantage of me. It's draining my energy. Being understanding of the bully doesn't work, standing up to bullies makes them close to killing me by group. Feel like a lost cause. Please help.

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Unread 04-02-2013, 06:25 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

In would be a good idea to post your chart with transits and progressions too.

if this is a repeating pattern might be a good time to get some one to one counselling.

Also sometimes if life is a complete roadblock it is becuase we have taken the wrong exit road. this is what I find. - in order for me to take notice I do often need some event to trigger me into action.
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Unread 04-02-2013, 06:27 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

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Originally Posted by Abby83 View Post
In my schooling years I never really had problems with bullying. It began the moment I entered young adulthood and the workforce and I have experienced it ever since. Even people from my past who were good to me have now become horrible to me since the age of 18. I understand that pluto in the 12th house conjunct sun and saturn is common for bullying. Also my mid heaven squares pluto and Saturn. Mars is square chiron, Uranus, Jupiter and moon.
I find im forever in a no win situation where im having to defending myself for no good reason, that im a target, ppl gang up on me and as a result I lose. Ive thought of working alone but this is very lonely for me.
I was told to look at good aspects to pluto to help. I have Neptune and venus sextile pluto - how would that help with bullying.
Am happy to put chart up if necessary. Am very depressed at the moment thinking there is no way out. Im sick of people targeting me when im a good person. Then when I defend myself it just fuels their anger even more to a point where they want to be violent with me and I have to run to safety before they do something crazy. It's true that pluto in 12th house attracts bullies by far. Can anyone tell me if I have the ability to overcome this. Im losing hope because im coming across more and more individuals attempting to take advantage of me. It's draining my energy. Being understanding of the bully doesn't work, standing up to bullies makes them close to killing me by group. Feel like a lost cause. Please help.
Hi, Abby.
this sounds like something that began with a transit planet activating your 12th house. 12th house Sun, is definitely a bully magnet, but usually that gets worked out in your formative years. Never feeling seen, or appreciated is also tied to 12th house sun dynamics.
and with pluto and saturn there. I can imagine pluto bringing some sketchy types your way. I really think the way to work through 12th house planets... that is, planets that are hidden away. Is to make use of them.
Youre attracting bullies because you aren't owning energies in your own personality. Once you embrace them, the universe no longer has to make you face them by bringing these people into your life, in order for you to confront those energies. I don't know too much about the positives of pluto and saturn in the 12th house.. maybe someone else can help you out with info on that and how to make use of them.

I was bullied throughout my childhood and well into my teens. As an adult, i encountered power plays/violent types, and stalkers. thankfully i am done with all that. Being confident in myself and happy, seems to keep them all at bay.

and i must say, Bullies are insecure frightened babies.. that overcompensate by bringing others down or hurting people. It makes them feel in control. Don't allow insecure/pathetic people to make you feel depressed. they are not worth the emotions and your time.

best of luck
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Unread 04-02-2013, 06:45 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

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Hi, Abby.
this sounds like something that began with a transit planet activating your 12th house. 12th house Sun, is definitely a bully magnet, but usually that gets worked out in your formative years. Never feeling seen, or appreciated is also tied to 12th house sun dynamics.
and with pluto and saturn there. I can imagine pluto bringing some sketchy types your way. I really think the way to work through 12th house planets... that is, planets that are hidden away. Is to make use of them.
Youre attracting bullies because you aren't owning energies in your own personality. Once you embrace them, the universe no longer has to make you face them by bringing these people into your life, in order for you to confront those energies. I don't know too much about the positives of pluto and saturn in the 12th house.. maybe someone else can help you out with info on that and how to make use of them.

I was bullied throughout my childhood and well into my teens. As an adult, i encountered power plays/violent types, and stalkers. thankfully i am done with all that. Being confident in myself and happy, seems to keep them all at bay.

and i must say, Bullies are insecure frightened babies.. that overcompensate by bringing others down or hurting people. It makes them feel in control. Don't allow insecure/pathetic people to make you feel depressed. they are not worth the emotions and your time.

best of luck
Honestly I wish I knew what these energies were that I need to own. I stand out, but not in a good way. I thought this attractive guy in the gym was paying attention to me and about to ask me out, instead he made fun of me in front of his mates. What the... completely unexpected. The way I see it, I come across as too sweet to fight back, im also less social - that would be south node sag. As a child I saw everyone in the purest light. now i cant see anyone in a good light. they all end up bad. But as a result im very guarded and try to put on a "u better not mess with me unless your genuine" look. At work they know im a good person so they take advantage, but when I do the opposite I also get attacked. Then the relationship ends. the pattern continues. What personal energies do you suggest I develop.
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Unread 04-02-2013, 06:53 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

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Originally Posted by Caro View Post
In would be a good idea to post your chart with transits and progressions too.

if this is a repeating pattern might be a good time to get some one to one counselling.

Also sometimes if life is a complete roadblock it is becuase we have taken the wrong exit road. this is what I find. - in order for me to take notice I do often need some event to trigger me into action.
I have gone to numerous counsellors who all told me to toughen up but they didn't tell me how. Or they'll tell you to hang around a different crowd. But in my situation at the school, these four scruffy rough girls very quickly ganged up on me, manipulated the teachers, and the director didn't do anything. I am very angry that my only option was to leave. It wasn't fair and I hate the fact that the main girl didn't have any bad astrological aspects and life was going quite well for her. she just felt like being horrible for the pure fun and excitement of it.

Ps - how do I post transits and progressions, where do I get it from.

Last edited by Abby83; 04-02-2013 at 06:56 PM.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 03:28 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

Abby, with your lightly aspected Libra sun, probably you are by nature a peace-maker who likes balance and serenity in life.

Just now transiting Neptune is activating your big square between Venus-Mars and Uranus-Moon-Jupiter. This can be a time of facing deception and disillusionment. Things that you thought were real turn out to be false. Something you thought was mere speculation may turn out to be true.

I wonder whether some of the bullying you face had any sexual overtones to it. Your personal life may be a model of exemplary conduct, but Mars-Venus-Jupiter is a pretty sexy combination that may somehow be drawing other people's unwanted opinions. If you are not dressing conservatively, doing so might help.

Alternatively, moon-Jupiter in the first house can be a recipe for weight gain. Large people often attract dumb comments from stupid clods. Just do what you can to look and feel your best, and ignore them.

Your Mars-moon square is wide, but this aspect can confer some doozies of bad moods. If you express really angry or hostile feelings, this will rub other people the wrong way.

You have Chiron in the 7th house. This is either the house of long-term partnerships (such as marriage, but not restricted to it) or it can become the house of open enemies (vs. thoe 12th-house back-stabbers.) If you don't have a steady love interest in your life just now, seeking out some other partner-type activities may shift the focus (for example, tennis or another raquet sport.)

I can't say exactly how to stand up to bullies, as part of your development is to learn to do this for yourself. But what has worked for me at various times:

1. Ignore them if you can. Sticks and stones may break your bones but words can never hurt you.

2. In the workplace or at school there are usually guidelines, rules, and with a large employer, even mediators. If you've tried an informal resolution, do you have a more official route? If people are lying about you at the workplace, can you make an appointment with your supervisor to set the record straight?

3. All of us have tense moments we don't think we handle very well. Then comes a sleepless night of, "I wish I'd said ..... " See if you can come back to a bully the next day, politely but firmly, with a constructive approach. Not fighting fire with fire, which most times can blow up in your face, but something like, "What you said to me yesterday seems very disrespectful. Was this your intention? If so, is there something about my work performance that you would like to tell me to my face?"

4. Develop a few allies. You don't have to face bullies alone.

5. Develop a sense of wit and humour. I'm not very good at this personally, but I've seen people who can turn a tense situation around by saying something clever and getting people to laugh. British prime ministers during the question period of parliament are sometimes masters of this skill.

You have a strong Jupiter in its own sign of Sagittarius-- his Roman name Jove is the root of our word "jovial." See if you can laugh more at your own human foibles. Become known for being optimistic and big-hearted. Practice random acts of kindness.

Yes, some people are mean-spirited simply because they can be. But these people do not define who you are.
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Last edited by waybread; 04-03-2013 at 03:30 AM.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 07:16 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

Waybread -

"I wonder whether some of the bullying you face had any sexual overtones to it. Your personal life may be a model of exemplary conduct, but Mars-Venus-Jupiter is a pretty sexy combination that may somehow be drawing other people's unwanted opinions. If you are not dressing conservatively, doing so might help."

Bahahaha this is hilarious. I have definitely resorted to dressing more conservatively cos of this. Although this does make me feel like im changing myself to make others happy. I feel the less I stand out the better. But it in no way attracts men to approach me. Instead they are also mean. Are u also saying I appear to be a role model in society.

Unfortunately I have tried all of the above to deal with bullies. They still get agitated. I laugh at myself all the time but others/bullies seem to think im laughing out of fear and that im fake. Playing a sport like tennis just might be good, thanks.

As for moon Jupiter - funny how I eat a lot of food, but my metabolism and stress keeps me slim and firm.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 07:56 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

Charts are available from astrodienst - extended chart selection - just pick options from the drop down menu's.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 10:23 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

Here's the transits and progressions to my natal
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Unread 04-03-2013, 04:01 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

Hi Abby-- Horoscope placements generally have multiple and sometimes even contradictory meanings. Since I'm not psychic, the best I can do is indicate some of them, then see if "the shoe fits."

By suggesting that Mars-Venus-Jupiter can be a sexy combination, I didn't necessarily mean you would find a lot of men hitting on you, although that would be one possible outcome. I was thinking more in terms that people sometimes give off vibes that unsettle others, even when they don't mean to.

There is a lot of astrology I don't know, but I don't see ultra-clear indications of being a bullying victim in your chart.

Could you describe what people say to you or about you? What would be some recent examples? Astrologically most phenomena can be pigeon-holed into a given sign, planet, or house, so getting some more details may help to figure out what is happening.

Your quandary reminds me a bit of my ex-husband. He actually has an OK-looking chart, yet sometimes he would get into deeply foul moods for no reason that I could fathom or that he would explain. Then he often took things as personal slights even where no offense was intended. Like you, he had the Saturn-Pluto conjunction, which affects a bunch of people born ca. 1947 and 1983. My daughter was born in 1983, so she's got it, as well. Usually she's fine but heaven help anyone around her when she gets in a bad mood.

Is this something that afflicts you, as well-- possibly deepened by that moon-Mars square?

I notice, too, that your sun is very lightly aspected. It makes a great sextile to your moon, which normally does confer self-confidence, but that's the only major aspect, and then your moon itself is a bit stressed. The 12th house of "self-undoing" demands that its solar natives relinquish their strong ego needs by identifying with a cause bigger than themselves, or serving less fortunate people. This could lead to some insecurity about your identity, such that when your sun perceives itself under threat, it doesn't have a lot of planetary allies to defend it.

Are you saying that your co-workers have actually threatened you with physical violence? Where do you work? Have you reported this to your supervisor?

Trouble is, attracting bullying can be a self-perpetuating vicious circle. Insensitive, unthinking people can be attracted to a known "victim" like sharks smelling blood in the water. Abby, just possibly have you got "victim" written on your forehead?

And listen to you! You want a therapist to give you the play book on how to stop bullying? You tried a strategy and it didn't work? It is prcisely a "poor me" attitude that will attract more of the same behaviour that you claim you don't want.

Maybe just let go of trying to lick this thing. You know the saying, "What you resist persists"? Maybe settle in with a copy of Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now, some good introductions to Buddhism, or even (gasp shock) think about joining a modern, forward-looking church. Something that will validate your self-worth spiritually and put the focus (12th house-wise) on how you can contribute to other people.

Maybe think of the bullies as God's children (or beings of light if you are an atheist) rather than your enemies, whether open (7th house) or secret (12th house). You used to do this, back when bullying wasn't such a problem for you.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 04-03-2013 at 04:07 PM.
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Unread 04-03-2013, 05:19 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

Hi again, Abby-- still there?

I hope I didn't sound snarky on my last post. My heart goes out to you. I've been the target of adult bullying as well. This happened in my workplace. I had pretty good job security, so nobody could fire me without serious cause, but their strategy was to make my life sufficiently miserable that I would voluntarily leave. For professional, financial, and personal reasons I didn't want to just quit. In part, I did not wish to reinforce, through my own conduct, the bullies' strategy. I had to learn to truly stick up for myself during this period, but since my chart is different from yours I don't know that what worked for me (itemized 2 posts ago) would work for you. During the worst of it the best I could do was end and start each day with a clear conscious that I had done nothing wrong and was doing the best job I could. But it was a horrible time in my life. Thank goodness I have my good share of Aquarian detachment!

One other thing I wanted to mention is that the ruler of the 4th house, the sun and Saturn are father indicators in the horoscope. (Saturn is the traditional ruler of your IC.) "Dad" in the 12th has a conventional interpretation in modern astrology of a father who is literally absent (through death or abandonment) or figuratively absent through emotional unavailability. When a young girl loses her tie with Dad, who should be her protector and emotional support, she may feel basically unloveable. Or she may take to heart the bad things that inevitably happen to good people, subliminally believing that Dad should have been there to protect her.

So this might be another avenue to explore. Did either of your parents champion your cause when those girls bullied you at school, for example?

Finally, and this is the hard part, I have strong feelings that sexual orientation cannot be read off a chart. Too many straight people have "gay signatures" and too many gay people do not have them. However, Uranus square Venus, notably with Mars in the mix, is one of those old-fashioned indicators of same-sex orientation in a woman's chart. Your sexual orientation is nobody else's business (unless you choose to make it so) but I wondered whether some of the bullying you experience might be homophobic. Again, sometimes people give off vibes without meaning to, or that actually belie their personal natures.
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I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.

Last edited by waybread; 04-03-2013 at 05:25 PM.
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Unread 04-04-2013, 01:29 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Hi Abby-- Horoscope placements generally have multiple and sometimes even contradictory meanings. Since I'm not psychic, the best I can do is indicate some of them, then see if "the shoe fits."

By suggesting that Mars-Venus-Jupiter can be a sexy combination, I didn't necessarily mean you would find a lot of men hitting on you, although that would be one possible outcome. I was thinking more in terms that people sometimes give off vibes that unsettle others, even when they don't mean to.

There is a lot of astrology I don't know, but I don't see ultra-clear indications of being a bullying victim in your chart.

Could you describe what people say to you or about you? What would be some recent examples? Astrologically most phenomena can be pigeon-holed into a given sign, planet, or house, so getting some more details may help to figure out what is happening.

Your quandary reminds me a bit of my ex-husband. He actually has an OK-looking chart, yet sometimes he would get into deeply foul moods for no reason that I could fathom or that he would explain. Then he often took things as personal slights even where no offense was intended. Like you, he had the Saturn-Pluto conjunction, which affects a bunch of people born ca. 1947 and 1983. My daughter was born in 1983, so she's got it, as well. Usually she's fine but heaven help anyone around her when she gets in a bad mood.

Is this something that afflicts you, as well-- possibly deepened by that moon-Mars square?

I notice, too, that your sun is very lightly aspected. It makes a great sextile to your moon, which normally does confer self-confidence, but that's the only major aspect, and then your moon itself is a bit stressed. The 12th house of "self-undoing" demands that its solar natives relinquish their strong ego needs by identifying with a cause bigger than themselves, or serving less fortunate people. This could lead to some insecurity about your identity, such that when your sun perceives itself under threat, it doesn't have a lot of planetary allies to defend it.

Are you saying that your co-workers have actually threatened you with physical violence? Where do you work? Have you reported this to your supervisor?

Trouble is, attracting bullying can be a self-perpetuating vicious circle. Insensitive, unthinking people can be attracted to a known "victim" like sharks smelling blood in the water. Abby, just possibly have you got "victim" written on your forehead?

And listen to you! You want a therapist to give you the play book on how to stop bullying? You tried a strategy and it didn't work? It is prcisely a "poor me" attitude that will attract more of the same behaviour that you claim you don't want.

Maybe just let go of trying to lick this thing. You know the saying, "What you resist persists"? Maybe settle in with a copy of Eckhart Tolle, The Power of Now, some good introductions to Buddhism, or even (gasp shock) think about joining a modern, forward-looking church. Something that will validate your self-worth spiritually and put the focus (12th house-wise) on how you can contribute to other people.

Maybe think of the bullies as God's children (or beings of light if you are an atheist) rather than your enemies, whether open (7th house) or secret (12th house). You used to do this, back when bullying wasn't such a problem for you.
Ok so examples -
The main thing that these scenarios have in common is that the person is competing to be on top. In my mind and attitude there is no need for competition rivalry because I think that there is enough room for everyone in this world. I believe that we are all here for a reason.
So at one job the boss didn't respect me at all. I never knew y. I confronted her and said I was going to leave. She begged me to stay and she was fine for one month. Then she went back to her old ways. was always kind and sympathetic to other employees but if I needed something like even a certificate to prove that I studied from her, she would ignore me etc. Eventually I got pregnant and instead of being happy like she is for other staff, she blew my head off. Full of rage and blame for how 'her' business wud end up without me. that I somehow purposely tried to mess her over. My husband was a witness of her rage even 3 months later. This was dangerous for my baby inside but she didn't care. Yet when other employees got suddenly injured and couldn't come to work for the same amount of time, she was sympathetic and kept going on about poor ----, hope she gets better soon, thinking of her always. She lied to me regularly. My initial instinct is that the problem that these people have with me is that they don't believe a person can be so nice and therefore they don't trust me. they somehow think im going to mess them over. that their failings are somehow my fault. Its easy to take your frustration out on the 'nice one.'

Second example - studying with a girl who went to my dance school (not in my class though) who tried to make my life hell. Were talking about being of adult age here. She even called up my business and pretended to be a complaining customer of my services. I know because we had a record of the phone number and when I called up she answered! She went up to guys she thought I might be interested in to try to make me jealous. She told the teachers that she was unhappy about favouritism towards me and that she would take it further, so the teachers went to the extreme of neglecting me in class. when I had a question or needed help they were too scared to answer, and when this happened her energy escalated even more due to great satisfaction. She started shoving in front of me in class and telling others in class that I had done something horrible to her in the past so they sided with her and ganged up on me. I only found out later when a girl in class told me this. I reported this to the director. he said it wasn't his responsibility andit escalated further. I took time off to breathe, came back when I was four month pregnant and she was aggressive again, slamming the bin hard saying "someone broke the bin, I wonder who that could have been, then turned to me, right after I had used it. then again started shouting to the teacher "does she get special treatment does she!" I felt sorry for my baby. definitely not safe. once again, like all the other cases, this girl was acting out because I was shining over her light. I was better than her at what we were doing and she could not handle it. problem is these bullies go to a third party to get their way and for some bizarre reason the third or fourth or fifth party believes them over me. so what becomes a group ends up ganging up on me and making threats until I change. the teachers were too scared of her.
When I have confronted certain bullies in the past, or they wanted to come clean about something on their own, they all seem to say that there was something about me that irritated them, but they don't know what. This is seriously what they all said. Even in my childhood I was a very happy girl, the golden child apparently, ppl were trying to sabotage me but I was oblivious until now because I was so happy. eg, one girl from grade one contacted me 2 yrs ago to confess that she tried to do something extremely horrible to me back them and that she felt bad about it. the thing was, I was so happy back then I don't even remember who the girl was, I didn't want to know what she had to say.
As for the gay thing, being androgynous, how would that irritate others. is it because im more balanced with my energies and they are not and they cant understand it?
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Unread 04-04-2013, 01:40 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

Ps, with the love I have within my family, I look for love like this in the outside world with work and friends. that's what I want and that's what I think I deserve. is that bad or unrealistic to look for? Why not want a peaceful and loving environment wherever u go.

Also, when ppl perceive you as perfect, or the golden child, when something does go wrong as in the father abandoning us like he did, ppl are quick to jump in and make your life hell. I think society gets a great pleasure seeing certain ppl (who appear to have it all) fall. It makes them feel better about their own problems.

Last edited by Abby83; 04-04-2013 at 01:44 AM.
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Unread 04-04-2013, 03:06 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

Wow, Abby! I hope you feel better!

Please realize that I am genuinely trying to be helpful. If this discussion is not helpful, I'll bow out. Australians sometimes tell me that as a society, they are non-deferential straight-talkers, so I am not trying to sugar-coat anything.

Of course there is nothing wrong in seeking friendship and decent work relationships! My point is only that sometimes an absent father does set up a dynamic in a girl, where she longs for (or resents) Daddy who was not there to support her when things got rough. As she gets older, unconsciously she magnifies personal slights as a means of being "right" about her feelings of being unsupported.

Also, my point was that your sexual orientation is nobody's business unless you choose to discuss it, but that the Venus-Mars square Uranus placement could reactivate homophobic people. Again, this is a bit of a fishing expedition. My suggestions will either resonate with you or they won't.

The "golden child" comments are curious. If this is how you truly see yourself, or yourself at one time, it does seem like the kind of attitude bound to cause resentment. It would seem that if you were "the golden child" in your eyes, you necessarily had to situate your classmates as something less wonderful. Throw a couple of Leos or sun-Scorpios into this dynamic, and trouble begins.

You weren't the "poor little rich girl," or something, were you? You didn't see yourself as superior to your classmates, did you?

Also, it appears that you have scripted your school and workplace relationships so that you get to be the totally nice one, and they get to be fairly horrible. What if you itemized the decent things they've been doing, the times when your behaviour might have been ever-so-slightly cr*ppy to them, and the people who essentially leave you alone?

Also, would you see your approach to resolving differences as win-win? You "confront" your first boss for being disrespectful. Confronting doesn't sound super nicey-nice to me. Yet she backs off for a while.

Did your discussion go something like, "I believe that mutually supportive work relationships are in our best interests and those of our company, but when you say things to me like, ".......," I feel that you do not respect me. Is there anything about my job performance you would like me to improve? If so, can we agree to a list of improvements, so we will both know at the end of three months whether you believe I have made them satisfactorily? Do you want me to resign voluntarily, and is your behaviour behind this wish?"

Your boss's tirade about your pregnancy is sick and shocking, and probably illegal under Australian human rights codes. Personally I would have felt horrible, but I think within a day or two I would have come back with a carefully crafted, emotionally calm letter, itemizing what she said, what you said, how the episode made you feel, and any applicable company policy or human rights code clauses.

If you worked for a large enough employer to have a human resources department, you might have recommended a mediator. [I did this once with a disrespectful co-worker. He refused, as was his right, but the thought that I would put him up to this got him off my back momentarily.]

In Canada where I live, human rights codes entitle members of protected groups (like women) to a supportive working environment. Nobody likes to rock the boat when this doesn't happen, but sometimes it is necessary. I played this card once, under extreme duress, and my employer settled so fast it was incredible. The last thing they wanted was for my case to go to a tribunal, where testimony is a matter of public record.

The bullying episode in your school could have happened in North America, but I just tonight saw a segment on the evening news about how the state of Colorado is undertaking serious changes to their curriculum to get students to rethink bullying, whether as perpetrator or victim. This was possibly in response to the school shootings in Colorado a few years ago, perpetrated by two boys who had been badly bullied.

Times are changing. With your 12th house focus, a placement for helping people less fortunate than yourself, you might look for comparable programs in Australia and volunteer for them, or else think how you could create something locally, notably when your child is ready for school.

Abby, as indicated above, I am sympathetic to your problem. In my own case, I withstood a fair bit of bullying because the notion of letting the bullies win truly stuck in my craw. Then I reached an age and a state of financial security where I could retire early. We moved to a very different (and beautiful) environment a thousand miles away, made new friends, and I'm lovin' it.

Somebody said, "Living well is the best revenge."
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Unread 04-04-2013, 06:32 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

Might I add that this girl from the college, her south node was conjunct my sun - interesting hey.
Well I just saw an astrologer, cos it was eating me up so much. She believes that it's my independent nature and doing/going for whatever I want in life with optimism and confidence is what irritates others. This is what attracts the "who does she think she is" attitude. The masculine men don't want me around because I can already do half of what they do, which makes them look lesser in front of the woman, so they try to ostresise me from the scene that is considered a mans' environment. The highly feminine women are uncomfortable around me because they can see my strengths and what I am capable with, and this backfires too. The large majority of society are like this and believe that man do this and women do that, so that wud explain y I feel so outnumbered in situations. I was told that to deal with this I did all the right things to maintain my power. that I need to stay true to being independent, but my main challenge in life is to incorporate that with relating to others. Walking away might be necessary in some cases for safety, but instead of isolating myself, I need to learn how to put myself in better situations for myself. that will take a long time because like I said, there are too many places/organisations in society that follow the whole man does this, women do that. tough challenge.
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Unread 04-04-2013, 07:18 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

Abby have sent you a PM - since it is not astrology related.
good luck with it all.
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Unread 04-04-2013, 04:43 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

Abby, I hate to say this, but your attitude of being better or more together than everybody else and that it's "you against them" seems like the core of your problem.

Do you really construe life in terms of gender wars?

I recommend you set a few goals, as in, how really do you want your workplace and relationship with others to progress? What about creating more joy in your life? Surely you don't want a bunker mentality for the rest of your life.

Please take a serious look at your Scorpio rising, with sun and Saturn-Pluto in the 12th house, and Mars square moon. The 12th house often indicates attributes of ourselves that are hidden from us, although they are readily apparent to others.

I put it to you that you can be extremely moody or brooding around other people, even though you may be unaware of it. Sure, we're all entitled to our feelings and bad days, but a lot of this will naturally grate on the other people around you.

Good luck to you, Abby.
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Unread 04-04-2013, 06:43 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

I agree with some things waybread has mentioned here. Particularly, the belief of being more put together than everyone else... would contribute the problems your facing. The reference to yourself as "the golden child".. is curious. If this is often how you speak of yourself when around others. That would certainly make others more confrontational around you. Up in the clouds looking down on them...is certainly going to unnerve alot of folks and make them hostile towards you. No one likes to feel as they are being looked down upon.
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Unread 04-04-2013, 07:43 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashriia View Post
I agree with some things waybread has mentioned here. Particularly, the belief of being more put together than everyone else... would contribute the problems your facing. The reference to yourself as "the golden child".. is curious. If this is often how you speak of yourself when around others. That would certainly make others more confrontational around you. Up in the clouds looking down on them...is certainly going to unnerve alot of folks and make them hostile towards you. No one likes to feel as they are being looked down upon.
Umm id have to disagree. After seeing the astrologer she definitely confirmed that I need to stay true and not change for others. That as a typical libra, I cant want to be liked all the time. As for the golden child part, as an adult I look back on videos of when I was a child and I was definitely the favourite. I don't know why I was, I just was. That's what that meant. I was for some reason a favourite. doesn't mean I think im better. I didn't even know it until now that im tracing back on my life.
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Unread 04-04-2013, 09:59 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

Hi again, Abby. Well, we'd all agree with the truism that you need to be true to yourself! Indeed, if astrology has any legitimacy, you could hardly do otherwise.

The issue in modern astrology, however, is whether a person has chosen an empowering or disempowering expression of the various elements of her horoscope.

So it is never a question of "changing" for others. Rather, human beings, unless we are cave-dwelling hermits, operate in a society with other people. We are social mammals. Each planet and sign, therefore, makes certain adjustments to get along with others in our families, in the workplace, and with our friends.

The trick is to identify the positive expressions of our chart placements that best enable us to do that.

A triple Aries just can't go around punching out people everytime she feels angy, for example.

I've studied astrology for something like 23 years, and while there's a bunch of it I don't know, I haven't known Libras particularly to "want to be liked." Libra is an air sign, not a water sign, so it doesn't demand emotional closeness; or Leo's need to be praised. What Libras value is a sense of balance and harmony in life. They feel best as members of a couple. They have an innate sense of fairness, and I think the utter injustice of your bullying incidents is what would most stick in the Libran craw. (BTW, I am married to a Libra, my brother is a Libra, and so on.)

The more I think about your posts and consider them in relation to your chart, I think you have a bullying "script" in your heart of hearts. I may be mistaken but I feel you have just situated you and the "good" professional astrologer you consulted against the members of this forum who have been trying to be helpful. This can be an expression of a "bunker" or "draw the wagons in a circle" approach to other people who seem critical of you in some way.

My summary of your horoscope in relation to your OP is that the above-mentioned Scorpio rising, Saturn-Pluto conjunction, and Mars square moon may give you a more outward moodiness than you recognize. It is hard for people to react constructively to this. Again, I've got an ex spouse and a daughter your age with the Saturn-Pluto conjunction and I've seen it many times in operation.

Then Jupiter in its own sign of Sagittarius is very strongly placed, making a nice sextile to Mercury. (Were you the bright girl in the class?) But the sign of Sagittarius can be a teeny-weeny bit of a know-it-all. Its faith and optimism that it knows best can grate on other signs who also think they know a thing or two... differently. A square from Mars will usually give a planet extra energy, but also extra volatility, even an aggressive edge. Even if this is not your intent, it is possible that you do come across to others as being somehow better or more knowledgeable than they are. Note that the moon in Sagittarius symbolizes your unconscious, among other things-- again, a part of ourselves that we can't access intellectually although it may be apparent to other people.

So none of this is meant to imply that I am critical of you as a human being. God doesn't make mistakes (or the universe, if you are an atheist.) Astrology indicates the assets and challenges with which we set out in life, and each of us has our own challenges to tackle.
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Last edited by waybread; 04-04-2013 at 10:04 PM.
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Unread 04-05-2013, 11:44 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

Waybread -

This is pretty much what ive been saying. Of course u need to balance your chart. But I think when bullying occurs, why on earth would you lower yourself to their level. If they're not on your level to begin with, why should you lower it just to make them happy. Of course they're going to think you're a snob. But if the bully is rough as guts and the exact opposite to you, trying to bring you down, how would that make you be a little too far up in your head about "being too good for others." Whenever I have had a bully around me it was always when I was good at something that the bully was not. does that mean I lower myself so I don't appear to be a "snob." Of course when im not good at something, and there are many occasions of this, I don't have any bully type attention.
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Unread 04-05-2013, 07:20 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

Hey Abby-- speaking as one person who was systematically and horribly bullied for several years in my career (and with a settled human rights complaint to prove it,) I have a somewhat different take on the matter.

A personal anecdote here, if I might.

My chart is mostly air and fire, so intuiting how people feel or truly empathizing with them, let alone having any psychic abilities, just isn't going to happen. I am a very Uranian person, so there is no way I could truly fit in just to please other people. However, I learned to compensate for my lack of natural empathy at one point in my career by minutely observing what people did, said, or wrote.

When I started advising people on astrological forums in 2007, this habit did come in handy. I would look for the connections between the OPers' horoscope placements and what they wrote in their posts. They are invariably present. This is how I have operated on this thread.

I worked in academia for over 30 years. Most university faculty are ambitious people, and they can be extremely competitive with one another. So I know all about people who are "good at something," such as teaching awards or millions of dollars in research grant income. Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the most published of us all?

I observed that the co-workers who bullied me were not entirely bad people. They had stable family lives. In many circumstances not involving me, they seemed like decent people. I decided that what I was up against was a workplace culture with deep roots in the region where I was living.

In a high-context sub-culture, people won't tell you to your face what bothers them about you. If you don't know the unwritten rules or can't figure them out quickly, the insiders will apply sanctions. In the workplace, generally this means being sufficiently obnoxious to you so that you will leave voluntarily.

In my case, I not only pushed the envelope, but essentially said, "What envelope?" Co-workers had real difficulties with this. They wouldn't have minded our supervisors walloping me personally, but they were afraid that our entire unit would be tainted by my presence. Some went to our supervisors behind my back. Others were either rude to my face, or scampered off like rabbits when they saw me informally, rather than being tainted by association.

Although I don't think I "lowered myself to their level," at times I did have to fight fire with fire. I was fortunate to have a large employer with a pretty thick set of policies, which I was able to apply to advantage; vs. personalizing matters.

This, I found, to be a better modus operandi than behaving snobbishly towards the most difficult co-workers. It would have accomplished nothing, and would have exacerbated the bad feelings. We don't throw gasoline on flames. I tried to be pleasant, or at least professional to people.

Again, I couldn't see them as one-dimensional, less talented, jealous people. Also, as a hyper-Uranian, I learned early on to separate out my private life from the more socialized demands of the workplace.

Enough about me. Next post: back to you and your horoscope!
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Unread 04-05-2013, 08:58 PM
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Re: Adult bullying

Hi again, Abby. Back to you!

Please realize that I am not trying to make you feel defensive. You gave a heart-felt request for help in your OP, and I am trying to provide it. If how you've behaved around bullies to date has truly supported you, I don't think you would have asked for astrological assistance. Your own evidence is that it has not worked for you very well, so the purpose of our exchange is to see what you can move to a different footing.

A truism of modern astrology is that any given horoscope placements have empowering, constructive or negative, destructive expressions. You gotta be you, but you can do so in empowering or disempowering ways. A worst case is that a person suppresses planetary energies that are not OK with her. But the horoscope will out, so these energies will then normally manifest externally as other people who seemingly embody the unwanted qualities. But really, they are only the "shadow" material of her disowned parts of herself (to paraphrase Jung.)

So I am wondering how you feel about Saturn-Pluto. Scorpio rising? Are these energies you try to exemplify in your own life in a constructive way? Or have you disowned them and projected them onto other people? This doesn't mean you have no objective evidence of bullying, or course you do. Rather, that your horoscope will express itself one way or another.

Of course, you're entitled to your experiences and views, but they are not ipso facto logical, and they do not seem to support you in life. (Coming from a different perspective astrologically, Aquarius is an egalitarian, and Uranus has little patience with old-fashioned heirarchical snobbery, just to cite alternatives.)

My evidence is what you have posted about being upset about bullies; and also that however you've been responding to them in life to date, your strategy doesn't seem to be working for you.

So let's look at what you wrote in your previous posts. You were the "golden child," the "favourite." You shouldn't have to change yourself to please others (so presumably if there's some conflict, the others have to change, thus putting them in a subservient position.) You are the "nice" and "sweet" one and the others behave badly. You excel at things and the bullies do not. Bullies "are not on your level to begin with." Any "masculine man" or "feminine woman" is bound to resent you because you effectively do things better than they do. And "the large majority of society are like this."

Holy Toledo, Abby! At this point, let's just throw away the astrology, because your comments speak for themselves. Of course co-workers or classmates are going to resent such attitudes. Some of your statements have nothing to do with your particular victim experiences, but suggest that you carry a chip on your shoulder a country-mile wide.

I've explained astrologically in previous posts what I think is going on: some of your placements suggest that you slip into bad moods without being aware of what impact they have on others. Another placement suggests a Sagittarian sense of "Dam*, I'm good." Which isn't bad, unless your social interactions get construed as a competitive zero-sum game. You have not got a hope in Hades of fixing your problem if you construe the majority of Australians as hard-wired to resent you.

So I have to ask, do you swing from one sort of feeling to the other? If you were not the best of the bunch, would you see yourself as failing miserably? Are you OK with coming in third best? How would you describe your teamwork skills?

Also, it is fine for you not to say thanks for the time and effort I've voluntarily put into your thread. Those of us who read charts frequently are used to it, but it does say something about the quality of social interaction of the poster. Again, I observe what people write-- or do not write-- by way of understanding why they might experience the problems for which they seek advice.
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Unread 04-06-2013, 01:12 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

But I like hearing your story . To me it seems like my case. Some people were trying to get rid of you and to me it looks like it's because they didn't like some kind of change to them you were implementing. Stiff. As an outside view it's a lot easier to see. Im happy to hear you took it further. It reminds me of the days of being a dental assistant and we got a new dentist who was good at his work. One assistant didn't like him so she bad mouthed him in everyway to the boss until they got rid of him. Poor guy. Then he was replaced by another dentist who was shocking at her job, but cos she got along well with others, she stayed for yrs. I don't think that way at all but its unfortunately society is like that.

Last edited by Abby83; 04-06-2013 at 01:19 AM.
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Unread 04-06-2013, 01:45 AM
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Re: Adult bullying

( QUOTE) So let's look at what you wrote in your previous posts. You were the "golden child," the "favourite." You shouldn't have to change yourself to please others (so presumably if there's some conflict, the others have to change, thus putting them in a subservient position.) You are the "nice" and "sweet" one and the others behave badly. You excel at things and the bullies do not. Bullies "are not on your level to begin with." Any "masculine man" or "feminine woman" is bound to resent you because you effectively do things better than they do. And "the large majority of society are like this."


I've explained astrologically in previous posts what I think is going on: some of your placements suggest that you slip into bad moods without being aware of what impact they have on others. Another placement suggests a Sagittarian sense of "Dam*, I'm good." Which isn't bad, unless your social interactions get construed as a competitive zero-sum game. You have not got a hope in Hades of fixing your problem if you construe the majority of Australians as hard-wired to resent you.

So I have to ask, do you swing from one sort of feeling to the other? If you were not the best of the bunch, would you see yourself as failing miserably? Are you OK with coming in third best? How would you describe your teamwork skills?

Also, it is fine for you not to say thanks for the time and effort I've voluntarily put into your thread. Those of us who read charts frequently are used to it, but it does say something about the quality of social interaction of the poster. Again, I observe what people write-- or do not write-- by way of understanding why they might experience the problems for which they seek advice.[/QUOTE]

The criticisms did make me feel attacked. But I am grateful for your posts. I get upset when I come across a way I don't want to. The golden child stuff is related to the past, not now. It relates to when I was a child, when things were going well. It was a fact not an illusion. I only realised it now as an adult though. This girl in my class was from my past and perceived me from the past. It was when I lost a lot in my life that the bullying kicked in. When I was not in the right place in tune with myself. The ppl I did like didn't want anything to do with me cos I wasn't good enough for them. They judged me on my parents and that we were poor. They'd say my mum doesn't know anything, that my brother's a weirdo, dad is with some (fill in blank). Of course bullies behave badly. The one thing I will say is I have to boost my confidence up prior to doing anything otherwise my self esteem is too low to begin with and then I feel ive failed and then I give up and want to destroy myself. So yes, this is how the mood swings kick in. I need to keep myself in a high level within myself just to feel ok to be in society because they scare me so much. I can see how this would cause ppl to think I think im better than them, but it's really just for me to cope. Even the thought of going to a party makes me feel claustrophobic. When im on my own I trust myself. I guess this all comes down to my south node conjunct moon in sag. first house. And criticisms affect me greatly also. I feel like its a war on me, and ive failed.
The bullying I have received has often been from ppl of higher status and wealth than me. Those with more friends, family, money and power. It started when I was 18 and forced myself into a particular job due to being injured and almost homeless. Another job was forced also because of this. Maybe this was why I was putting myself in the wrong place. If I followed my heart instead of a desperate need to do anything for survival, im sure things would have been better. Now when I see certain ppl in an authoritative position where someone else could do a much better job, I get highly agitated and upset and start thinking less of them. I start to lose respect. I start wanting an employer that I can learn from. One that I can look up to. I have had this kind of good relationship with one employer but it was too much of an unconventional job to stay in. I wish I had a boss like her again. One other job was also good like this but they were open only two yrs.

Last edited by Abby83; 04-06-2013 at 08:55 AM.
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