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  #26  
Unread 01-25-2019, 06:32 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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I don't believe lack of a trine imposes severe handicap and lack of resources. But, then, maybe I wasn't looking and didn't see.

I don't use the quintile much. Lilly did. I should. But I don't. I look elsewhere in the chart for a directive dynamic.

Let each chart talk to you. No reason to force things, try to impose rigid parameters on what is what it is.

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  #27  
Unread 01-25-2019, 06:44 AM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

And to Gemw....

I took Harrison Ford because:

The chart was posted right under my nose. I looked it over and saw some things worth talking about.

I hope you don't feel slighted. After we discuss Ford, you're welcome to post any bundle chart and we'll look it over.
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  #28  
Unread 01-25-2019, 07:34 AM
GemwDepth GemwDepth is offline
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
And to Gemw....

I took Harrison Ford because:

The chart was posted right under my nose. I looked it over and saw some things worth talking about.

I hope you don't feel slighted. After we discuss Ford, you're welcome to post any bundle chart and we'll look it over.
Thanks for this GB. I was gonna say it would be educational to do Katy Perry's chart. For the sole reasons her's is a very tight bundle located in a single quadrant. This is rarer to find. Quite synonymous with the theory behind bundle charts, so we can easily see and demonstrate how everything manifest in real life, without potentially being distracted by conflicting or lesser influences.

Also by memory most of her signs are dispersed in 3 placements - Scorpio, Capricorn and Sagittarius, which adds to the focused nature.
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  #29  
Unread 01-25-2019, 08:56 AM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

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Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
What are the characteristics or qualities typically embodied in the bundle personality?

Shared with the bowl are intensity of character and an incredible self-sufficiency. Accompanying these traits are independence and high self-esteem.

A bundle cannot contain an opposition aspect. Therefore life can be seen only from the point of view of self. Lack of perspective, enclosure in a private world. Highly focused on a limited slice of life.

But here is the key. I quote from Jones; he says it so well:
This type is the "creator or proponent of an exclusive and well-ordered world within which his own immediate competence or superiority may have constant manifestation...."
It depends on what we mean by perspective. All of us can access the world and others only through ourselves, so an opposition shows how someone needs to perceive another person or what they want/invite from them, etc rather than the actual ability to see people for who they are. Natives with oppositions may or may not get to a point in their life when they recognize their projections and relationship patterns, etc.

Jones also says "While the bundle temperament identifies the most concentrated rather than the broadest spread of self-realization, this does not imply that the native is at all provincial or incapable of a well-rounded development. What is revealed instead is a tendency to self-fulfillment in an unusually selective ordering of his own affairs."

I think the bundle chart explores by full immersion into an experience, which is different from the balancing, one-foot-here-and-one-foot-there approach of the see-saw, for example. But with time, we will go full circle, too, and will have the possibility to immerse into different kinds of experiences (we will have friendships, we will develop skills, we will get married, have kids, and so on). So, like any other native, we too may or may not develop a greater perspective.

I understand that for someone as scientifically minded as Jones this full immersion into experience would translate into competence, but I don't think that even for him this automatically becomes a sense of superiority (he uses "or").

Natives with any kind of chart can develop a superiority complex. Bobby Fischer comes to mind. Maybe the chart pattern rather
shows how it will manifest. I know someone with a see-saw chart and a grand trine in water who thinks she knows everything better than everybody else. She tried to crush several marriages in her family because she decided they were not ideal for each other, she despises anybody who doesn't accept her latest revelations as higher wisdom, etc. She recently made a youtube video in which she gives a solution to all current problems of the world in about 20 minutes and considers herself a spiritual leader (she's in her late thirties). At least your guy has his limits, lol.
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Last edited by Therese; 01-25-2019 at 09:10 AM.
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  #30  
Unread 01-25-2019, 09:16 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Bobby Fischer has a nearly perfect Mars/Asc opposition by Sign. It's in less than 1 degree of arc of Leo (Asc) and Aquarius (Mars).
Also, Mars in Aquarius is in perfect trine to in Gemini.

Last edited by david starling; 01-25-2019 at 09:24 AM.
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  #31  
Unread 01-25-2019, 09:23 AM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

I plan on using Bobby for the locomotive.
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  #32  
Unread 01-25-2019, 09:27 AM
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Smile Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

In-Sign Grand Trine with less than 1 degree orb, with in Gem most elevated of the 3, Neptune in Libra and Mars in Aquarius at the base. Looking forward to the pattern.

Last edited by david starling; 01-25-2019 at 09:35 AM.
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  #33  
Unread 01-25-2019, 09:38 AM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

I didn't mean to imply that bundle people all have superiority complexes.
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  #34  
Unread 01-25-2019, 09:46 AM
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Smile Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

What about Locomotive people?
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  #35  
Unread 01-25-2019, 09:49 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Muhammad Ali has what looks to be another pattern. It splits into 3 sections.
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  #36  
Unread 01-25-2019, 06:26 PM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Most everyone lives with "ego problems"; we go through life thinking "I" am Important, "I" am Special...and that creates all sorts of difficulties.

Ali was the greatest. Fischer (a locomotive) was the greatest. They both earned their bragging rights.
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  #37  
Unread 01-25-2019, 06:39 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Missed the "sole" part. I do look for the Chart dispositor. Mine bounces around and ends up in Neptune in Libra. Since it's not the sole dispositor, would I have Venus as a co-dispositor?
A "Sole Dispositor" MUST be "in domicile". If it doesn't rule itself how can it be "king of kings"?

Disposition (final or sole) means "The buck stops here." In your case, Venus rules Neptune in Libra. But if Venus is not in one of her own houses (signs) her power is diluted -- she is beholden to whoever rules the sign she occupies -- and she cannot be the Last Word (sole or final dispositor).

In Harrison Ford's chart Uranus is leading planet and holds great power over the whole life; Uranus "stands out". But a very powerful Moon is sole dispositor. We have a possible conflict here, a need to serve two gods. It is the astrologer's task to figure out how these two forces will blend (or not) in real life. Challenging; Moon and Uranus are natural enemies.

In my experience the final dispositor works quietly beneath the surface. A leading planet is more "in your face".

Bradley (Chelsea) Manning's chart provides a very interesting study in final disposition. Both Mars and Pluto are in 12th house Scorpio. Mars is sole dispositor of the chart...but is "out of touch" with the other planets (12th house and no aspects). But he directly rules (disposes) Jupiter in Aries, who disposes all else.

So the lord of the chart, the king, rules through a prime minister or grand vizier, Jupiter. Study Jupiter and you will know why Manning revealed all those secrets. Look to Mars, Pluto and Moon in Scorpio 12th to understand the deeper, hidden motivations, what ultimately drives Manning.

Last edited by greybeard; 01-25-2019 at 07:37 PM.
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  #38  
Unread 01-25-2019, 07:45 PM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

OK. Let's look at Harrison Ford.
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  #39  
Unread 01-25-2019, 07:54 PM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
OK. Let's look at Harrison Ford.
A VERY active aviator, Environmentalist, and Conservationist. Opposed the Iraq War, and called for the impeachment of Bush Jr. for starting it.
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  #40  
Unread 01-25-2019, 08:54 PM
GemwDepth GemwDepth is offline
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

First review. Some analysis points:

1) This bundle is located at the upper hemisphere, with tight points close to the MC. The native’s life is, for the most part, publicly oriented.

2) Pattern wise, the dermacating points of this bundle is the Neptune-Uranus Trine. Greybeard, you said “The trine. Momentum, building on itself continually, effortlessly. Accretion.” Which one is the leading planet here, and which one the ending?

3) If we give a lot of weight to the Neptune-Uranus trine, lets look at the houses. Uranus is in the 9th house of space, intergalactic travels, and Neptune in 12th house of hidden realms, which can signify a lot of things. (Does the 9th rule movies or the 5th?) The Uranus in 9th confers brilliant, novel undertakings in 9th realms (Starwars franchise anyone?) that’s combined with structure and long term development; seen with the conjunction to Saturn (business).

Last edited by GemwDepth; 01-25-2019 at 09:00 PM.
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  #41  
Unread 01-25-2019, 08:58 PM
GemwDepth GemwDepth is offline
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

(Continued from above)

4) It’s easy to see the fame here. Eight planets (80%) are dispersed in only 2 houses close to the MC. All the heavy weights (Sun, Moon, Jupiter, Pluto) are in the 10th, with Jupiter in exaltation on the MC. The native simply needs to be important (Sun, Moon), obsessively so (Pluto) and has the natural luck to make it happen (Jupiter, MC)

5) What’s probably not so obvious are the 4 planets in the 9th house, which includes his AC ruler Venus in the 9th. Ford is also popular internationally. As Wiki quotes, “As of 2016, the U.S. domestic box-office grosses of Ford's films total over US$4.7 billion, with worldwide grosses surpassing $6 billion, making Ford the second highest-grossing U.S. domestic box-office star.”

6) The Mars in Leo in 11th would point to Ford's tendency to spend majority of his energies forming alliances, working in trade organizations and maintaining key friendships. That would require a better knowledge of his biography to verify.

Perhaps the most mysterious point to me is the Neptune in Virgo in 12th. I still do not know what this one signifies - Imagination from unconscious realms? Sensitivity? Piscean creativty?
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  #42  
Unread 01-25-2019, 10:33 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

I know nothing of Ford. Saw him as Han Solo. Read his wiki bio.

The leading planet is the first to cross the Asc by diurnal motion...Uranus
.
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  #43  
Unread 01-25-2019, 11:22 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Your point 1 Gem...

I knew a very reclusive lady with a bundle and all planets above the horizon. She had a powerful 8th, Saturn in 12 and Mercury conj Pluto on the MC.

Movies are 5th...entertainment.

Last edited by greybeard; 01-25-2019 at 11:27 PM.
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  #44  
Unread 01-26-2019, 01:19 AM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Turns out Neptune rules film and 5th rules entertainment industry.

Saturn rules Fordís 5th, conjunct Uranus in 9th. This connects entertainment (5th), a revolutionary film produced / rolled out by the establishment (Uranus Saturn conjunction), taking place in a higher, dimensional space (9th). 9th also rules global, international business. This seem to be the involvement with the Star Wars Global Franchise.

Many actors have a Sun-Neptune contact. Ford has a Neptune sextile with the Moon, not the Sun. But Moon is ruler of the MC. And Moon is also combust and conjoined with his Sun. Those are other supporting factor for film career.

Someone else can probably give a better interpretation of the Uranus-Neptune trine.

Specifically, how this generational aspect affect a personal case.
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  #45  
Unread 01-26-2019, 10:42 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

The trine of Uranus and Neptune is 5 degrees separating. It occurs in Cadent houses, with Neptune conjunct Asc, 5 degrees. Both planets are in Mercurial signs, both Common but in different elements, with Mercury tightly conjunct MC in Cancer, Moon in sole disposition.

Uranus is in exact trine Asc; both planets are thus connected by major aspect to Asc. Uranus is conjunct (+5 degs.) Saturn and sextile (-1 deg.) Pluto. Neptune sextiles (-4 degs.) the Sun-Moon. (my usage, += separating, -= applying). I find no minor aspects to either body.

Last edited by greybeard; 01-26-2019 at 10:44 AM.
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  #46  
Unread 01-26-2019, 11:31 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

Trines normally feature both planets in the same element; that is not true here. Instead both planets are in Common signs, signs of the same quality or mode, a cross-sign trine.

The elements primarily operate subjectively and are concerned with how we perceive and process information. The qualities describe how we deal with the outer world.

The Mutable (Common) signs work by adapting the self to surrounding circumstances. In the jargon of the Freudian crowd, they are "autoplastic". Adaptability, flexibility, and accomodation are hallmarks of this quality. We might call them chameleon-like. They are not normally bound by rigid ideals, principles or values. These signs tend to take life as it comes and are not much concerned with introspection or self-evaluation. And they are dualistic. These signs are fundamentally concerned with the social milieu and establishing themselves in it, finding their proper niche; they are people people.

Last edited by greybeard; 01-26-2019 at 11:36 AM.
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  #47  
Unread 01-26-2019, 11:32 AM
david starling david starling is offline
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Smile Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

How about the extreme involvement with aviation, and keen interest and involvement in Environmental and Conservationist causes? Uranian influence, with the Ascendant trine?
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  #48  
Unread 01-26-2019, 11:52 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
How about the extreme involvement with aviation, and keen interest and involvement in Environmental and Conservationist causes? Uranian influence, with the Ascendant trine?
Ain't got there yet. I believe that man's psyche creates his destiny. So my interest is, in the first instance, with the mind of the native. The rest will emerge from that.

Not to go into detail, but protection, conservation, nurture and such are energies found in Moon, Jupiter and Venus. There is a very powerful stellium (both Lights, 10th house, final disposition) in Cancer, the sign native to the 4th house of the"land" and all that is found on and under it.

But, I ain't got there yet. Right now I am exploring what can be learned from the delimiting trine of a bundle pattern.

Your thinking in this case is going from "known characteristics" toward the chart. I am trying to go from the chart toward a portrait of the inner man.

Last edited by greybeard; 01-26-2019 at 12:20 PM.
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  #49  
Unread 01-26-2019, 03:30 PM
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Re: Using Planetary Patterns. The Bundle. Harrison Ford

If Ford's birth certificate can be trusted, that Uranus is intercepted (9th house cusp is in the last degree of Taurus). That's an intriguing situation for a leading planet, no?
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  #50  
Unread 01-26-2019, 05:16 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
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If Ford's birth certificate can be trusted, that Uranus is intercepted (9th house cusp is in the last degree of Taurus). That's an intriguing situation for a leading planet, no?
How do ee interpret that
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