Is the moon really void of course here?

I'm pregnant and am trying to schedule a c-section when the Leo moon happens to be void (please see the first attached chart). However, at the end of this same moon, at 29 degrees Leo, the moon may be in mutual reception with the Sun at 1 degree Taurus (please see the second attached chart). In this chart, the moon and sun are not at an exact trine, but well within orb.

Can this be considered a mutual reception if they are not in the same element, i.e. the Moon is in a fire sign and the Sun in an earth sign?

If this is truly is a mutual reception, would this nullify the void Leo Moon, so that the Leo moon is not void of course? Or would only a perfect aspect before the moon leaves Leo be able to nullify a void moon?

Besides a perfect aspect, what else would be able to nullify a void moon?

If the moon is void of course, how would this affect my baby's personality and the actual birth event itself?

Thank you very much!

VOC Moons are not really something that is used in natals by most Astrologers. It is used usually in event and horary charts to show the motion of follow through.

29 Degrees of Leo is a lovely degree, as it is conjunct the most fortunate of stars, Regulus and the degrees proceeding and afterwards are also smaller magnitude fortunate stars.

As for keeping it out of VOC, you could use out of VOC by Antiscia As the Moon's Antiscion is the degree and sign of Mars in the chart.

In Horary, it is debated if the Moon is VOC if within orb she perfects with another planet, and in this case, the Sun and Mars would keep that from happening. Other Astrologers will disagree.

Finally, there is a mixed mutual reception from the Sun (in the Moon's exhault) and the Moon (in the Sun's rulership). This would be an important factor in horary, if the two planets were significators. Again, other that it would be an awesome boost in a natal, I don't think you need to worry about a VOC being negated.

On your poll, I guess I need a both and a doesn't really matter option.

Moon is only 14 SECONDS from entering the next sign: that's good enough (close enough) to consider it as defacto IN the new sign (as far as VOC Moon criteria are concerned), and therefore not VOC; also, I agree with Wintersprite that VOC Moon is generally not considered in natal chart delineation (its principal application is to event/electional charts, somewhat also in horary)

Hello! I wouldn't fret too much about a chart set for a due date that may not happen! I was born two weeks late, long enough to go from the Cancer due date to the Leo birth date!

There are a few different definitions for the Void of Course Moon, and it's really going to depend on which one you follow.

The oldest definition is that the Moon isn't void if she's going to perfect an aspect with any planet in the next 30°, this is regardless of sign boundary. The Hellenistic tradition wherein this originated followed mostly whole sign aspects, so using the length of a sign to determine whether the Moon was void has a shared history with their aspect doctrine. The Moon in your chart would not be void based on this definition.

The next oldest definition is from the medieval period and it says that the Moon isn't void as long as she's applying to another planet within orb, this is also regardless of sign boundaries, and it's not uncommon to see the Moon void in the beginning or middle of signs. This definition evolved from the former definition as the emphasis on aspectual contact shifted from being sign based to degree based. The Moon in your chart would also not be void based on this definition.

Finally, there is the modern definition wherein the Moon is void if she doesn't perfect anymore aspects before she leaves her sign. I'm not really sure how this one originated, but it seems to be due to a misunderstanding of an older work and some unclear language. The Moon would be void based on this.

Can this be considered a mutual reception if they are not in the same element, i.e. the Moon is in a fire sign and the Sun in an earth sign?

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Mutual reception isn't something that's dependent on elements, it depends on if planets are in the dignities of another. The Moon in Leo and the Sun in Taurus would be in a mutual reception since the Moon would be in the Sun's domicile and the Sun would be in the Moon's exaltation, but they wouldn't have this relationship in this chart because the aspect isn't right. Leo and Taurus don't Trine one another. When the Moon moves into Virgo, there will no longer be a mutual reception, instead the Moon will only receive the Sun into her exaltation.

I do, though, disagree that the Void Moon doesn't have an effect in nativities. It's just everyone uses the modern definition so a lot of people appear to have them.

Hi all, thank you very much for your input.

I've edited the first post because it sounds like there was some confusion about the original chart I attached. It was a chart showing the possible mutual reception, not of the actual birth event. I now have 2 charts attached, the first showing a possible birth event, and the second showing a possible mutual reception. Please let me know if there is any confusion.

From the replies so far it sounds like everyone believes the VOC moon does not have much influence in the natal chart, except Kaiousei. Kaiousei, I was wondering what you believe is the effect of VOC moon in the natal chart?

If the moon is indeed VOC, I was wondering what effect that would have on the birth event itself? Maybe I should choose a different c-section date?

Does anyone else have any thoughts on if there is a mutual reception, or if there is anyway this VOC moon may be nullified?

Thank you!

In horary, (those who believe the VOC Moon has an effect) consider the VOC Moon shows a likelihood that "nothing comes of the matter"; in event astrology, (especially relative to beginnings, inceptions) VOC Moon indicates that unusual and or unexpected conditions/results will arise or develop, that things will likely take an unusual and/or unexpected turn or course. However, I must state again that I am unaware of any significant application of the doctrine(s) regarding a VOC Moon, to natal delineations.

In the choice of the timing of an event-where one has such a choice to make- however (electional astrology) one would always choose a time when the Moon is NOT VOC.

ayc216 said:

From the replies so far it sounds like everyone believes the VOC moon does not have much influence in the natal chart, except Kaiousei. Kaiousei, I was wondering what you believe is the effect of VOC moon in the natal chart?

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Sure. Firmicus Maternus tells us that someone born with the Moon Void in their birth chart "will make paupers destitute of all necessities, without means of daily life. They beg for a living and are always in need of a stranger's help to sustain life. They suffer from infected wounds or malignant humours under the skin which attack their joints."

So, obviously the Void Moon was still thought to have an effect on the native and it wasn't a very pretty one. Of course, Maternus was well known for being very extreme in his examples, so I wouldn't take it to heart. The above is only really applicable if the benefics aren't angular in the chart. However, someone born during a Void Moon is one of those people who never settle down in life or find out what they're supposed to do.

If I may speak off the cuff for a moment, I think choosing a date for a c-section is probably one of the worst ideas, especially for someone who follows astrology. I think it would be best to let the child pick their chart instead of picking one for them. This will save you a lot of grief in the end as you'll probably continue to kick yourself everytime they have a bad experience. "If I only I had waited an hour or two to get the Libra Ascendant!" :/

Maternus (in defining a VOC Moon) was using as criterion the Hellenistic VOC doctrine (as that doctrine was outlined in the earlier post by KnS) So, the Maternus delineation of the (alleged) dire effects of a VOC birth, would not apply to the reference chart posted by the OP(as KnS has pointed out)

Kaiousei no Senshi said:

If I may speak off the cuff for a moment, I think choosing a date for a c-section is probably one of the worst ideas, especially for someone who follows astrology. I think it would be best to let the child pick their chart instead of picking one for them. This will save you a lot of grief in the end as you'll probably continue to kick yourself everytime they have a bad experience. "If I only I had waited an hour or two to get the Libra Ascendant!" :/

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As someone who has given birth three times...even if you try to choose something could change. The doctor could be late arriving, which could throw the ASC off. Your water could break early...there are so many variables that I don't even think it's worth trying. Babies are born when they are born...and that is their choice. Even if it sometimes seems like it's not.

I really appreciate everyone's expert opinions and thank you all for your honesty. I sincerely apologize if I have offended anyone on my wish to schedule a c-section, that has never been my intention.


Please let me explain. I have harsh Saturn aspects in my chart and have had a pretty difficult life. When I found out that my baby's due date also has several harsh Saturn aspects, I became very worried. I think it is natural to want your baby to have a better life than you. I would do everything in my power to do this. I realize that things may not go as I planned, but at least I tried my best. This is how I feel, I understand if others disagree.

ayc216 said:

....I realize that things may not go as I planned, but at least I tried my best. .

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And THAT is what matters!

Best wishes to you and your baby!

Deb Houlding over at Skyscript has a nice rundown of what the ancients considered Void of course. It does differ. Lilly used out of sign applying aspects for the moon in some cases, and in others he did not. Head scratcher. He also talked about how if the moon is still within orb of its last aspect, even though its still not within orb of the next, its not void. I've been reading a lot about Void Moons lately and there is no consensus. The one thing I've picked up from the Skyscript forums is that often times a moon with its last aspect out of sign can still come to a fortunate conclusion, but usually the circumstances have to change first.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/voc.html

I totally get how you would want to give your child the best chart possible. The child has his/her own agenda, so whatever blueprint and life purpose he/she is coming in with, then he/she will arrange for it to happen when they need it to happen, no matter what you've arranged.

Hilary Clinton was born with a natal moon void of course. I haven't looked into it yet, but its something to work on. This is what Dorotheus said aboud natal voids

Dorotheus (approx. 1st cent. AD)
"If you find the Moon void of all the planets, none of them aspects it, and none is in the ascendant or aspecting the ascendant, then this native is void of good in livelihood, possesses pain and hardship in the pursuit of what he needs."

Personally, I think opting FOR a VOC caesarean is asking for trouble. Any manner of things could go wrong. I day pick a good strong date with good aspects and see what happens.

Good luck!!

barbh