Pluto through the houses (some things to think about)

FIRST HOUSE: Who are you? Do you change your style, the way you speak or change jobs frequently to define this aspect of yourself? When someone asks you who you are, do you know?

SECOND HOUSE: What are your values? Do you work for money purely or do you work for something more? Do you marry for love or does it feel arranged due to 'circumstance', perhaps it is just time to marry? Do you have any true convictions that not even god could shake away?

THIRD HOUSE: Can you 'be'? Or do you need to define what that means? Do you need to constantly have someone around and constantly do something because not doing anything means you don't exist at all? Do you learn but never truly know?

FOURTH HOUSE: Do structures provide you a false sense of comfort? Do you deceive yourself about family, the past or you home life now that you are utterly dependent? Do you yearn for the comforts that others provide for you that you can't even figure out how to provide them yourself to you or others?

FIFTH HOUSE: Do you ever truly enjoy a game or a romantic encounter for what it is and not for how you will perform? Do you constantly worry about how you 'are' to others, if you are sexy or worthy and so aren't really doing anything when you are called to show up and shine?

SIXTH HOUSE: Do you yearn for power because you are the only one who can do it well? Do you get wrapped up in obsessions or compulsions that the rest of the world melts away? Are you ready to put your own wants aside and accept that by fulfilling something greater you will find true fulfillment?

SEVENTH HOUSE: Who controls your relationships? Who takes and gives? Do you worry that by letting yourself mold with others you will disappear? Is the balance between you and others often off track so much so that conflict or premature endings occur?

EIGHTH HOUSE: Sometimes in the darkest moments life gives us our answers. When life gives you lemons, do you truly change it to something useful? Do you look at yourself in the mirror and see your faults and ask how to best change these things about yourself? When you look at others, do you notice what they are or what they could be?

NINTH HOUSE: When you expand and fly, you may notice that where you once were was okay. Do you have grandeur dreams or yearn to travel, change or try to lose yourself in another culture or time? Are you so dissatisfied with the now that you will act out a whole different dimension to forget? Do you expand on everything in your mind because the truth is not exciting enough?

TENTH HOUSE: Which is more important, status or self? Which is more important, the structure or the many? Sometimes rules are necessary, but don't get lost in what you 'should do' and forget what you 'could do'.

ELEVENTH HOUSE: Who is it that you want to be? What is it that you want to do? Do you define yourself based purely on these things and those you are around? Who would you be if you had nothing to define yourself by?

TWELFTH HOUSE: Where is my place? Sometimes being still or being alone is the best way to answer this question. Do you ever feel stuck in an oblivion? Do you feel separate? Examine WHY, for this is what holds your back from being truly connected and happy.

retinoid said:

Who would you be if you had nothing to define yourself by?

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Very nice set of questions for the pluto placements. This question in particular caught me..........hard. lol

Here's a similar thread if you wish to follow.
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49157


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I have my Pluto shift between 7-8 depending on H-System but I can strongly relate to the 8th P & the question seems valid to my life.

retinoid said:

EIGHTH HOUSE:[/B] Sometimes in the darkest moments life gives us our answers. When life gives you lemons, do you truly change it to something useful? Do you look at yourself in the mirror and see your faults and ask how to best change these things about yourself? When you look at others, do you notice what they are or what they could be?
.

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I am at peace with the dark side of life & through learning myself to the deepest level am able to understand & transform the people who come into contact with me. Surprisingly the part about 'What they can be' gave me a new insight. I always see people as a HIGHER FORM of their actual selves. I was in teenage ever since I could figure out someone's talent & help to SHOW it to them. Past 5 years people started complimenting me for raising their self-esteem & 'Helping them to discover' their latent talents. I didn't know this until I came to astrology & now consciously offer to help bring people's talents to their notice.
Relationships are trans-formative for me. If I love someone I change while changing the other person. My healing method works 2 way. I love complete surrender but learnt the hard way that most people are resistant to change so haven't seen any person achieve their highest form.

retinoid said:

SEVENTH HOUSE: Who controls your relationships? Who takes and gives? Do you worry that by letting yourself mold with others you will disappear? Is the balance between you and others often off track so much so that conflict or premature endings occur?

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I have Pluto in my 7th house. It is exact degree conjunct my 7th cusp.
I dont control my relationships until I get fed up and break into anger and so obviously things deteriorate quickly. To get out of this, I have to bow usually. Accept conditions of others, compromising my ego and saying sorry over the expression of my feelings which I really experience.
Usually i compromise a lot because i encounter highly egoistic people mostly.

Now, this is EXACTLY the issue with me. I always feel that a person in relationship expects me to change so much that either my personality will be crashed down or i will simply go invisible.

Conflict and premature endings, Sigh. Happens so frequently that i have literally started being afraid of relationships themselves and it is influencing me psychologically. I see people having good relationships and i wonder how it happens.

This is interesting to know really.

I have Pluto in first. When people ask me questions about my identity, I get suspicious of them and don't want to answer anything directly. Only when I feel like there's no threat will I give out answers. I'd rather hold back than lie.

MY opinion on 10th:

what is my profession? Where do I like to work? Am I bohemian/conservative/communist or what? Buddhist or christian? Career or underachiever? Do I prefer teamwork or working alone?

OMG! This one is definately wierd :S How accurate is 5th house's questions?

Exactly 2° in Scorpio in my 5th house. Not the best place for Pluto to be in. A certain distraught feeling makes me constantly worry about my performance socially/romantically in the early stages of a relationship, as well as how others perceive me. Having said this, given the opportunity I would definately not back down to 'try' and prove my worth to others even if I fail.

Gwenyhfair said:

MY opinion on 10th:

what is my profession? Where do I like to work? Am I bohemian/conservative/communist or what? Buddhist or christian? Career or underachiever? Do I prefer teamwork or working alone?

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I personally don't like seeing things that are typical to the stereotypical house...like the the 9th house (religion, philosophy, traveling, etc.)...I have a friend with pluto in the 9th who doesn't care about religion, philosophy or traveling much. Most people with pluto in the 10th probably can't really 'relate' to questions about career or religion or what not. And so on for 6th (health, service)...it is just too 'bland' FOR ME. That is why I made the questions to be more psychological, not talking about stereotypical house questions which I hate seeing.

SIXTH HOUSE: Do you yearn for power because you are the only one who can do it well? Do you get wrapped up in obsessions or compulsions that the rest of the world melts away? Are you ready to put your own wants aside and accept that by fulfilling something greater you will find true fulfillment?

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OMG! True, especially the first question!

Sanaqua said:

I have Pluto in my 7th house. It is exact degree conjunct my 7th cusp.
I dont control my relationships until I get fed up and break into anger and so obviously things deteriorate quickly. To get out of this, I have to bow usually. Accept conditions of others, compromising my ego and saying sorry over the expression of my feelings which I really experience.
Usually i compromise a lot because i encounter highly egoistic people mostly.

Now, this is EXACTLY the issue with me. I always feel that a person in relationship expects me to change so much that either my personality will be crashed down or i will simply go invisible.

Conflict and premature endings, Sigh. Happens so frequently that i have literally started being afraid of relationships themselves and it is influencing me psychologically. I see people having good relationships and i wonder how it happens.

This is interesting to know really.

Click to expand...

SEVENTH HOUSE: Who controls your relationships? Who takes and gives? Do you worry that by letting yourself mold with others you will disappear? Is the balance between you and others often off track so much so that conflict or premature endings occur?


I also have Pluto in the 7th along with Mars....

I'm the giver and I have the control at the beginning of the relationship. After some years I lose it badly. I get obsessed, addicted to the other one.

The last relationship left me powerless. I got to the point where I surrendered to someone who was hurting me because every attempt of getting away made me feel even worse. And from the moment I gave away control I felt much better though things in my life weren't.

I don't feel the other one tries to change me. On the contrary I was told "Don't ever change!". I transform the other one.

At the beginning of the relationship I'm this shiny "perfect" person who gives the other one so much freedom and happiness. I act unafraid. But as years go by the fear of losing the other one emerges and I start acting jealous, possessive and the other one starts to run away from me which makes me even more desperate.

So I "change" (actually I just show my true colours) and the other one starts to impose his rules on me because he knows I can no longer give up on the relationship and ....I start losing power more and more until I'm a shadow of myself.

I purposely avoid any close relationships now, even for friendship.
It was a hell. I don't know how not to surrender to the other one in a relationship.

I don't fear I'll lose myself in the other one because that's my goal. I love to get lost in the other one. It's just that when it happens I abandon my power and I have to count on the other one to take care of me and that doesn't happen. I need to find a way to keep my power and some boundaries while "merging" with another one but I don't know how to do it because that seems to take away the pleasure

No wonder I have Chiron in Taurus in the 1st/2nd. One needs to develop a solid structure of self before merging safely with another one.

bubuza_dulce said:

I also have Pluto in the 7th along with Mars....

I'm the giver and I have the control at the beginning of the relationship. After some years I lose it badly. I get obsessed, addicted to the other one.

The last relationship left me powerless. I got to the point where I surrendered to someone who was hurting me because every attempt of getting away made me feel even worse. And from the moment I gave away control I felt much better though things in my life weren't.

I don't feel the other one tries to change me. On the contrary I was told "Don't ever change!". I transform the other one.

At the beginning of the relationship I'm this shiny "perfect" person who gives the other one so much freedom and happiness. I act unafraid. But as years go by the fear of losing the other one emerges and I start acting jealous, possessive and the other one starts to run away from me which makes me even more desperate.

So I "change" (actually I just show my true colours) and the other one starts to impose his rules on me because he knows I can no longer give up on the relationship and ....I start losing power more and more until I'm a shadow of myself.

I purposely avoid any close relationships now, even for friendship.
It was a hell. I don't know how not to surrender to the other one in a relationship.

I don't fear I'll lose myself in the other one because that's my goal. I love to get lost in the other one. It's just that when it happens I abandon my power and I have to count on the other one to take care of me and that doesn't happen. I need to find a way to keep my power and some boundaries while "merging" with another one but I don't know how to do it because that seems to take away the pleasure

No wonder I have Chiron in Taurus in the 1st/2nd. One needs to develop a solid structure of self before merging safely with another one.

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Babuza you're SO like me.. I have Mars in 7th house too alongwith Pluto.
I'm the giver too but even in start of relationships, i cant say that i control it fully.. It is only the beginning courtesy and gestures that i control and rest starts going to others gradually..

It is not that i am clearly asked to change. It is the monopoly of others and their attitude which is indirectly asks me to surrender to THEIR conditions. And if i follow those conditions, i feel i lose myself. Yeah, others get attracted to my initial open and charming behaviour. Then exactly what you said, i get addicted and then apprehension of loss compels me to go possessive and demanding and others start feeling uneasy.

THAT'S the point! I would love to lose myself in others too but shouldnt other be worth it? I find myself getting attracted to people who seem to hurt me usually or whose egos would be too high to care for me

You have surprised me, i didnt know that someone could feel exactly the same way, i do.

I've Taurus AC too. But my Chiron is in Gemini in 2nd house. I dont know how it is related to this situation.

I am so hurt of relationships with 'others' that i fear getting close to anyone, i fear of friendships and i have started thinking seriously and making up my mind that relationships are not for me. I am just so much hurt.

Sanaqua, your post is so interesting! I'll answer to it later.
BTW, I have an Aries Asc.

may28gemini said:

I have Pluto in first. When people ask me questions about my identity, I get suspicious of them and don't want to answer anything directly. Only when I feel like there's no threat will I give out answers. I'd rather hold back than lie.

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It's me! ...Pluto in Ist.

The people use to say sometimes than I can be too suspicious (=almost paranoid).

Blackempress said:

I am at peace with the dark side of life & through learning myself to the deepest level am able to understand & transform the people who come into contact with me. Surprisingly the part about 'What they can be' gave me a new insight. I always see people as a HIGHER FORM of their actual selves. I was in teenage ever since I could figure out someone's talent & help to SHOW it to them. Past 5 years people started complimenting me for raising their self-esteem & 'Helping them to discover' their latent talents. I didn't know this until I came to astrology & now consciously offer to help bring people's talents to their notice.
Relationships are trans-formative for me. If I love someone I change while changing the other person. My healing method works 2 way. I love complete surrender but learnt the hard way that most people are resistant to change so haven't seen any person achieve their highest form.

Click to expand...

Originally Posted by retinoid
EIGHTH HOUSE:[/B] Sometimes in the darkest moments life gives us our answers. When life gives you lemons, do you truly change it to something useful? Do you look at yourself in the mirror and see your faults and ask how to best change these things about yourself? When you look at others, do you notice what they are or what they could be?

Click to expand...

This is a very interesting thread, and I kind of like that some astrologers regard Pluto as the soul's purpose in the natal chart. Perhaps that's oversimplifying, I don't know, I'm still learning. But I relate to what Blackempress wrote and very much to the Pluto in the 8th description.

By the way, Retinoid, did you write these yourself?

I have had many hard knocks in my life of different varieties and I've grown into the realisation that this is probably what the cycles of my life will continue to reveal for me. I think with Pluto in the 8th (among other things) we are constantly seeking to understand ourselves, our motivations and those of others, but also the possibilities. It's a never ending process, very relevant to the eighth house.

Sanaqua said:

Babuza you're SO like me.. I have Mars in 7th house too alongwith Pluto.
I'm the giver too but even in start of relationships, i cant say that i control it fully.. It is only the beginning courtesy and gestures that i control and rest starts going to others gradually..

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I'm talking about one destructive relationship that lasted for almost ten years.

I felt I was in full control for the first three years. Then I made something stupid, we had the first real fight and I felt I lost it. It's like the people who use drugs say it feels when you're left without your drug. I felt so bad that it scared me. Not wanting to ever feel like this I started doing whatever the other one wanted. We both knew I was no longer in control.

Sanaqua said:

It is not that i am clearly asked to change. It is the monopoly of others and their attitude which is indirectly asks me to surrender to THEIR conditions. And if i follow those conditions, i feel i lose myself. Yeah, others get attracted to my initial open and charming behaviour. Then exactly what you said, i get addicted and then apprehension of loss compels me to go possessive and demanding and others start feeling uneasy.

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Aha, I also change my lifestyle but I remain myself underneath. It didn't bother me for years but things had gone so far like not letting me go at my work or driving me away from my friends and family, selling my books (!) that I felt imprisoned. In a way I was. But not only by the the other one, but by myself! I was the one that couldn't give up. I ran away and then came back many times.

Sanaqua said:

THAT'S the point! I would love to lose myself in others too but shouldnt other be worth it? I find myself getting attracted to people who seem to hurt me usually or whose egos would be too high to care for me

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I think, at least in my case, this comes from childhood conditioning. I grew up with strong-willed people who forced me to do things their way or even beat me. As I loved them, I learned that someone who loves you can beat you or treat you badly and it's ok. I also became so used to being punished that now I punish myself by choosing these relationships. I thought my childhood is over when I left the house but it seems it isn't.

I know how it feels to love someone who behaves like a monster and to try to convince them of your love. It happened to me more than once.

I don't know if I learned the lesson. What is it? Give up the things that "are bad for you". Isn't that the Scorpio lesson? (You say you have a Scorpio Desc). I mean Pluto/Mars rule surgery and in this area you can see clearly that what is bad for the body is cut and thrown away. With pain sometimes but because it's the last minute solution.

So perhaps the relationship should not be permitted to deteriorate gradually. To observe even the smallest abuses and to be able to handle them correctly (I tried, I failed).

I think I attracted this kind of people. It's not a mistake, it's someone fit for me. The moment I'd be "ok", whatever that may mean, I know I'd attract someone ok. If not, I wouldn't accept it. (But not being ok, I did)

And I should not need "to lose myself" in someone else to run away from my problems (I did) or to have someone to blame. I should be self-sufficient.

I realised I consider giving alright but not receiving. I couldn't give if there was nobody to receive. I should be able to receive as well

Sanaqua said:

You have surprised me, i didnt know that someone could feel exactly the same way, i do.

I've Taurus AC too. But my Chiron is in Gemini in 2nd house. I dont know how it is related to this situation.

I am so hurt of relationships with 'others' that i fear getting close to anyone, i fear of friendships and i have started thinking seriously and making up my mind that relationships are not for me. I am just so much hurt.

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Chiron in the second is about self-worth.

I prayed that I would never fall in love again. For years. I question my best friends' motives. I don't want to lose my trust in people but ... My heart trusts but my mind analyses possible betrayals. Constantly. And the fact that Pluto/Mars square Mercury doesn't help.

Running away from relationships is not a solution and we both know it. I hope when the time will come we'll be able to handle them correctly. Until then - I don't know... I try to practice sports (to "own" Mars), to exercise renouncing - for example bad habits or foods. I try to analyse to what I'm addicted and how I'd feel without. I think of myself in terms of " What if I hadn't this or that", how I'd make it? And by "this or that" I mean health, friends, family, house, pets, foods and so on. Do I have power even after I lost my power? I need to find a power that can not be taken away.

I'm sorry if I've been off-topic. Tired, struggling, exhausted, laughing at myself. I have tr Pluto on the MC

MJ82 said:

This is a very interesting thread, and I kind of like that some astrologers regard Pluto as the soul's purpose in the natal chart. Perhaps that's oversimplifying, I don't know, I'm still learning. But I relate to what Blackempress wrote and very much to the Pluto in the 8th description.
.

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I agree with you that pluto is about life-time lessons. Despite being obsessional about it, I feel there's so much more to explore.
Just wondering do u have a Fear-&-Craving for intense relationships? I've come to learn that if I love someone I'm capable of destroying them & myself with them. I want the 'deathly' experience of losing myself & having the other lose themselves in me in more than the physical way. Scary!

Bubuza & Sanaqua- Despite not being a huge fan of Placidus I have my pluto & Mars in 7th in Libra in that. I can relate to you both!

I find it hard to maintain control in relationships when I really LONG to lose myself in the other. I literally feel like WORSHIPING a loved one-body & soul. In the start when things are light people love me & try holding on but later on when my attachment runs deep the other notices that I'm committed & can well use me any way they like. Close relationships had often become claustrophobic & controlling with the OTHER having my reins. Even If I wanted to let go of the toxic relations, they still kept me coming back.......'Just one last time'.

I've figured this pattern of self-destruction but don't know why I find it hard to get out of it. I easily make another my addiction & like a drug can't get off till the whole scene falls apart to ugly shambles.
I've learnt to fear close/emotional relationships too. Even if I'm tempted I rarely give in to someone TOO MUCH.
Gotta agree to BD's explanation of 'Ok to be controlled by a loved one'. I still suffer from those spells when it comes to Parents.

I often feel a mix of the 7-8th PL but 8th fits me totally whilst there are things in 7th that apply to me.

Blackempress said:

Just wondering do u have a Fear-&-Craving for intense relationships?

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Completely, but I also have Pluto conjunct Saturn and then widely Mars (so Mars-Saturn-Pluto). Every time I feel strongly about someone (at the beginning), and the more intensely I feel, the more strongly my Saturn is activated, so what they say about saturn in the 8th and sexual tension is very true for me! It's actually a really tough combination in that respect, the more intensity of feeling or desire (again this subsides after an initial experience of intimacy with someone) the higher the tension.... so yes it creates an immense fear and craving, but I'm learning to deal with this and to relax and let go

This is also an interesting look at Pluto through the houses:

http://northnodeastrology.blogspot.com/2008/05/gift-of-pluto-finding-power-in-your.html

MJ82 said:

Completely, but I also have Pluto conjunct Saturn and then widely Mars (so Mars-Saturn-Pluto). Every time I feel strongly about someone (at the beginning), and the more intensely I feel, the more strongly my Saturn is activated, so what they say about saturn in the 8th and sexual tension is very true for me! It's actually a really tough combination in that respect, the more intensity of feeling or desire (again this subsides after an initial experience of intimacy with someone) the higher the tension.... so yes it creates an immense fear and craving, but I'm learning to deal with this and to relax and let go

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Can relate to this as well. Same having Pluto-Conj-Saturn With a tight Mars-Conj-Saturn in the Libra stellium. I see your point on 8th House saturn being valid as well. Sexual tension... always suffering with it.
For me Uranus bails me out I guess- Venus-opp + Moon-Sex. I take the intellectual highway out of the relationship once I start feeling it rotting at the corners. Techinically I don't ever get a chance to really explore my plutonian side in relationships since Uranus dominates all of them & keeps me plus the Controlling-Saturn satisfied (but empty).

Thank you for the link!

Blackempress said:

I've come to learn that if I love someone I'm capable of destroying them & myself with them. I want the 'deathly' experience of losing myself & having the other lose themselves in me in more than the physical way.

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You make me think about this film: "Love me if you dare"

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0364517/

Blackempress said:

I find it hard to maintain control in relationships when I really LONG to lose myself in the other. I literally feel like WORSHIPING a loved one-body & soul. In the start when things are light people love me & try holding on but later on when my attachment runs deep the other notices that I'm committed & can well use me any way they like. Close relationships had often become claustrophobic & controlling with the OTHER having my reins. Even If I wanted to let go of the toxic relations, they still kept me coming back.......'Just one last time'.

I've figured this pattern of self-destruction but don't know why I find it hard to get out of it. I easily make another my addiction & like a drug can't get off till the whole scene falls apart to ugly shambles.
I've learnt to fear close/emotional relationships too.

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It applies to me too. All of it.

'Just one last time'. That's how addiction works - "Just one more drink and then I go home".

In my case I strongly believed "This time will be different". Yeah it was. Worse!
I guess this was a Neptunian trait. Believing against all odds.

Blackempress said:

Even if I'm tempted I rarely give in to someone TOO MUCH.

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Hmm. I think like this but I don't feel like this! And I even wonder what's the point of teaching someone the same lesson over and over again if the student won't learn?
My heart is as loving and trusting as if I were born yesterday. And of course I worry. What am I to do? This is how I feel good even if some people betray me - if my heart feels love and trust. I'd rather have people betray me than lose this feeling of trust (in Universe, in God, in how things work in general)

And from the link:

7th House: Too much self-protection prevents trust from developing in relationships. Avoid power struggles and create relationships based on equality. Sometime earlier in your life you may have had to deal with hidden agendas, manipulation and hurt with too much “truth.” Now it’s time for true intimacy, and less interpersonal drama.

Isn't that the opposite? Too little self-protection and too much trust!

Power struggles, inequality - checked

Hidden agenda yes - in my family lots of subjects were taboo but "too much truth"? That was the opposite! Because of so many hidden things I came to yell whatever truths I felt like!

Why some of them sound like the opposite of my issues?

I guess maybe I have a strong Piscean influence (through the Moon)/Neptune and that affects how this part of the chart works.