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  #1  
Unread 05-12-2019, 07:21 PM
The19thLaw The19thLaw is offline
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Elements: Does water always defeat fire when going against it?

Say someone had a fire heavy chart and another person had a chart with a lot of water signs. It seems like by elements, water always puts out fire. I also notice that fire signs get stereotyped as starting fast but burning themselves out as well while water signs are seen as not initially being threatening but staying the course.

It also seems to be true for placements in a chart too.

Aries and Scorpio both rule Mars but Aries is the quick burn Mars that easily moves on, forgives, forgets, and does not do well with long-term goals. A Scorpio Mars is committed and stays the course for a long-term win.

Now it would seem like if the fire signs and water signs went to war, it would be an easy victory for the water signs based on the element of water putting out the fire.

Thoughts?

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  #2  
Unread 05-12-2019, 10:31 PM
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Re: Elements: Does water always defeat fire when going against it?

Bruce Lee who had the indomitable Mars square Pluto even said ‘be like water.’

But everything would die without fire. Discovering how to make fire was the beginning of civilisation! We need all the elements but in equal quantities, fire would still win. Over time, water wins. Depends on the circumstances I guess but Bruce Lee was probably right.
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Unread 05-12-2019, 10:43 PM
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Re: Elements: Does water always defeat fire when going against it?

Are you talking about signs, or are you talking about people? Those are different things.

If you're talking about a person with a water dominant natal chart vs a person with a fire dominant one, all that describes is their general approach to things. The water person will be, in general, highly sensitive to emotional energies and easily affected by other people's emotions. The fire person will be less so, unless they also have a lot of water in their chart--but if their chart is extremely dominated by fire, they might have a strong tendency to jump into things, maybe get in over their head.

That says nothing about how they would approach a fight with each other, let alone who would win, but it might show why they get into a fight in the first place. The water person reacts from their emotions. The fire person just plain reacts. Something's happened to trigger both of them.

If you're just talking about the signs--for example, a natal chart with both fire and water sign placements--then the native has some of both approaches in them. It's not about one defeating the other. It's about what the driving force is behind which areas of their life.

Really, even if you're talking about two different people, which elements dominate their charts does not determine who will win if they compete or fight. It just describes how they would approach it.

It's also possible these people really need each other. If one of them has a lot of fire but little or no water, and the other has a lot of water but little or no fire, they both need people in their lives who can give them their missing element. This could be a good recipe for cooperation instead of competition, if they approach it that way.
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Unread 05-12-2019, 10:52 PM
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Re: Elements: Does water always defeat fire when going against it?

IMHO, People with fire sign really good at cooking, might be even become Master Chief. This is because Master Chief must capable to control the fire thus producing a really good cuisine. Example: People with dominant Aries would be really good at cooking the cattle's head or brain, Leo would be really good at cooking the cattle's epigastrium or bile, and Sagittarius would be really good at cooking the cattle's hips or any mascular and motoric system.

For Water sign, I think probably good at farming. Yes, a really good at farming because they would be really good at managing waters. Btw waters are really expansive in arid area.
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Unread 05-12-2019, 11:08 PM
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Re: Elements: Does water always defeat fire when going against it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
IMHO, People with fire sign really good at cooking, might be even become Master Chief. This is because Master Chief must capable to control the fire thus producing a really good cuisine. Example: People with dominant Aries would be really good at cooking the cattle's head or brain, Leo would be really good at cooking the cattle's epigastrium or bile, and Sagittarius would be really good at cooking the cattle's hips or any mascular and motoric system.

For Water sign, I think probably good at farming. Yes, a really good at farming because they would be really good at managing waters. Btw waters are really expansive in arid area.
Dominant elements doesn't mean dominant signs. A person with a fire dominant chart might have a fire grand trine, covering all three fire signs. Or they might have placements in just one or two of the fire signs. Same with a water dominant chart.

Neither do dominant chart elements have anything to do with the real world element. Having a fire dominant chart doesn't mean you're necessarily good at cooking or handling fire. Having a water dominant chart doesn't necessarily mean you work with water. What those elements mean, in an astrological context, is what kind of energy you manifest, both physically and emotionally.
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Unread 05-12-2019, 11:48 PM
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Re: Elements: Does water always defeat fire when going against it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osamenor View Post
Dominant elements doesn't mean dominant signs. A person with a fire dominant chart might have a fire grand trine, covering all three fire signs. Or they might have placements in just one or two of the fire signs. Same with a water dominant chart.

Neither do dominant chart elements have anything to do with the real world element. Having a fire dominant chart doesn't mean you're necessarily good at cooking or handling fire. Having a water dominant chart doesn't necessarily mean you work with water. What those elements mean, in an astrological context, is what kind of energy you manifest, both physically and emotionally.
Ms Osa,

Without mistake, one can't geniunely learning, so thank you.

I intially confused with OP's assertations, ie : wars, etc therefore I percieved their assertation in confusion and intended to bring more "practical" topics in general, which related to the elemental of the signs. Also, the confusion probably because the excessive usage of the "image" of the sign instead of the "element".
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Unread 05-13-2019, 12:46 PM
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steam, to Law

Law,

While Water energy can put out Fire energy if there is enough Fire (so Water doesn't smother it), another possibility is "steam". The Fire energy can "heat up" the Water energy and make it VERY intense. "Steamy relationships" tend to have this Water/Fire combination. One thing which CAN put out Fire energy is Earth: even a little Earth energy can greatly decrease Fire energy.

Steamily,

Tim
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Unread 05-13-2019, 05:50 PM
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Re: steam, to Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
One thing which CAN put out Fire energy is Earth: even a little Earth energy can greatly decrease Fire energy.

Steamily,

Tim
Laughing at this: lucky me, I have a fire/earth chart! Very frustrating, actually. I'm carrying around equally strong needs for freedom/spontaneity and stability/predictability.

One of my best astro friends has a stronger water/air chart--opposite combination of mine--although we share a Sagittarius moon and Capricorn ascendant. Funny thing, in light of this discussion: we started out by fighting. Then realized, because the whole argument started around plans for getting together to discuss astrology, so we were already thinking about that, that we're good at triggering each other's shadow sides, so we'd better be conscious of that and work together. The friendship has evolved into a very cooperative one. (Incidentally, if you were talking about sun sign, 19thLaw, I'm a Leo and my friend's a Scorpio--so we've got a water/fire square in that.)

Illustrating the point that a contentious relationship also has the potential to be a cooperative one. The same astrology can point to both.
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  #9  
Unread 05-16-2019, 02:08 AM
The19thLaw The19thLaw is offline
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Re: steam, to Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
Law,

While Water energy can put out Fire energy if there is enough Fire (so Water doesn't smother it), another possibility is "steam".
More on this?

Also, if there is too much heat doesn't water just evaporate?
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Unread 05-16-2019, 02:56 AM
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boiling water, to Law

Law,

If you have a LOT of heat and some water, the water starts boiling. Boiling water creates steam. It's a metaphor, but a useful one to describe how fire and water people can affect each other.

Metaphorically,

Tim
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Unread 05-17-2019, 02:25 AM
The19thLaw The19thLaw is offline
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Re: boiling water, to Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
Law,

If you have a LOT of heat and some water, the water starts boiling. Boiling water creates steam. It's a metaphor, but a useful one to describe how fire and water people can affect each other.

Metaphorically,

Tim
Does that mean that a fixed sign of either elements means a fixed fire sign overcomes a fixed water sign by boiling it?

That would explain why my Leo friends lose the battle but win the war against my friends who are Scorpios.
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Unread 05-17-2019, 10:59 PM
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boiling away, to Law

Law,

Quote:
Originally Posted by The19thLaw View Post
Does that mean that a fixed sign of either elements means a fixed fire sign overcomes a fixed water sign by boiling it?

That would explain why my Leo friends lose the battle but win the war against my friends who are Scorpios.
This sounds reasonable to me: a dramatic, fiery Leo could boil away a watery Scorpio. However, Scorpios have the ability of dying and becoming "reborn", having learned from their previous death. Sooooo Scorpios who have been "boiled alive" by a fire person can be VERY angry and vicious the next time around. Scorpio rules "secrecy" so Scorpio people can come back and strike in secret so the fire sign person never sees it coming.

About the battle,

Tim
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Unread 05-19-2019, 09:32 PM
The19thLaw The19thLaw is offline
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Re: boiling away, to Law

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilsontc View Post
Law,
This sounds reasonable to me: a dramatic, fiery Leo could boil away a watery Scorpio. However, Scorpios have the ability of dying and becoming "reborn", having learned from their previous death. Sooooo Scorpios who have been "boiled alive" by a fire person can be VERY angry and vicious the next time around. Scorpio rules "secrecy" so Scorpio people can come back and strike in secret so the fire sign person never sees it coming.

About the battle,

Tim
Given that Scorpio was originally ruled by primitive Mars, I actually have seen the situation play out to where they start the fight but usually the Leo ends it convincingly. I don't buy them being reborn for the purpose of a war as unlike Pisces or Cancer, Scorpios actually go around starting fights.
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Unread 05-28-2019, 11:53 PM
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Re: Elements: Does water always defeat fire when going against it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SunConjunctUranus View Post
IMHO, People with fire sign really good at cooking, might be even become Master Chief. This is because Master Chief must capable to control the fire thus producing a really good cuisine. Example: People with dominant Aries would be really good at cooking the cattle's head or brain, Leo would be really good at cooking the cattle's epigastrium or bile, and Sagittarius would be really good at cooking the cattle's hips or any mascular and motoric system.

For Water sign, I think probably good at farming. Yes, a really good at farming because they would be really good at managing waters. Btw waters are really expansive in arid area.

I don't think that's how that works. Hahahaha..
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