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  #1  
Unread 12-31-2014, 03:00 AM
LyP LyP is offline
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rebel and intransigent people

What kind of aspect would indicate people always unhappy, irritable, selfish, inflexible
who do not care about the rules,feelings or tradition.

a kind of person; "the world is wrong, not i."

which can create a bandit?

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  #2  
Unread 02-13-2015, 03:33 PM
Faith Thomas Faith Thomas is offline
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Re: rebel and intransigent people

I would think certainly people with difficult aspects to Uranus, particularly from the Sun or Ascendant.
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  #3  
Unread 02-14-2015, 06:58 AM
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Therese Therese is offline
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Re: rebel and intransigent people

I think you are blurring together two different types of people. Rebels often do what they do because they do care. They see suffering in the world, and they think it is the rulers, the system or tradition, etc, that is responsible for this, and sometimes they are even idealistic enough to set out and change it for the better. (they think it is something "outer" forced upon people that makes them cruel or at least blind to the suffering of others, for example, and these "others" are usually the minority the rebel identifies with in some way).

rebel (noun)
1. a person who refuses allegiance to, resists, or rises in arms against the government or ruler of his or her country.
2. a person who resists any authority, control, or tradition.

A rebel would say that the always unhappy, irritable, selfish, inflexible person who does not care about the feelings of others is the product of modernity/capitalism/consumer society/colonialism/globalisation/etc (pick your choice). If we change the system, people will be happy, humane, tolerant, caring, etc.
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  #4  
Unread 02-14-2015, 11:42 AM
LyP LyP is offline
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Re: rebel and intransigent people

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therese View Post
I think you are blurring together two different types of people. Rebels often do what they do because they do care. They see suffering in the world, and they think it is the rulers, the system or tradition, etc, that is responsible for this, and sometimes they are even idealistic enough to set out and change it for the better. (they think it is something "outer" forced upon people that makes them cruel or at least blind to the suffering of others, for example, and these "others" are usually the minority the rebel identifies with in some way).

rebel (noun)
1. a person who refuses allegiance to, resists, or rises in arms against the government or ruler of his or her country.
2. a person who resists any authority, control, or tradition.

A rebel would say that the always unhappy, irritable, selfish, inflexible person who does not care about the feelings of others is the product of modernity/capitalism/consumer society/colonialism/globalisation/etc (pick your choice). If we change the system, people will be happy, humane, tolerant, caring, etc.
I'm talking about that selfish type who does not really care what others think, even with the laws

about what you said, well, I'm idealistic enough to try to change my country, but I will do it my way, I'll be a cop,i think about do medicine and work for free, and think of entering the political
I also wanted to change the world, it is unfair and sad
only idealism, I will give time to it


Quote:
Originally Posted by Faith Thomas View Post
I would think certainly people with difficult aspects to Uranus, particularly from the Sun or Ascendant.

I have Uranus square sun, I'm not naughty ... unless I do not agree with the order, if I do not agree, I will not obey, is a matter of pride
I always know what is right for me

many challenging positions of Uranus seems to be a problem
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  #5  
Unread 02-14-2015, 04:00 PM
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Therese Therese is offline
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Re: rebel and intransigent people

Well, I would define "selfish" as not caring about other people's needs and deepest feelings, I don't think that the failure or lack of willingness to conform certain stereotypes, standards and expectations belong here. do you know the story of the miller, his son and the donkey? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_mil...nkey#The_fable

Stereotypes, presuppositions, theories, standards and especially any kind of established order or tradition need reflection on themselves, they need people who question them and reform them, if necessary, otherwise tyranny is just an inch away. That's why principles like freedom of speech are (still) around.

Anyway, whatever you are looking for, you cannot blame it all on a single planet or a bunch of selected aspects - in a natal chart nothing stands alone. Whatever you pick, you will find millions of people who have it and don't fit the bill. I mean, look, half my planets are conjunct Uranus, and I am so not a "bandit".
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  #6  
Unread 02-14-2015, 04:35 PM
LyP LyP is offline
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Re: rebel and intransigent people

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therese View Post
Well, I would define "selfish" as not caring about other people's needs and deepest feelings,
is exactly what I define the "selfish", what you are wanting to teach?

and good laws serve to be followed.
who does not follow, is rebelling.

murder is a crime, who commits murder is disobeying a law.
beating his mother or wife is a crime, prostitution is a crime, it is judged by people in society,
but have people who do that, they do not care to be judged.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therese View Post
Anyway, whatever you are looking for
you does not care what I'm looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therese View Post
you cannot blame it all on a single planet or a bunch of selected aspects
i not go into stereotypes,
Uranus is connected to breakage of standards
is a fact.

so I made this thread. If you do not want to help, not hinder.
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  #7  
Unread 02-14-2015, 06:00 PM
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Therese Therese is offline
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Re: rebel and intransigent people

Not sure what irritates you so much, but it's fine, I'll leave. All I said was that breaking rules or not following tradition is not the same as not caring about other people. Even if you really think that one planet or a certain aspect can show a person who breaks rules, you still need the whole chart to figure out why they are doing it. You yourself said that you decide which laws are "good", that's a form of rebellion. There are other ways of disregarding standards than hitting your wife. for example, during World War II, people who were hiding Jews to save their lives were breaking the law and risked their lives. They were "criminals". And it was "people in society" at the time who agreed to the execution of 11 million innocent people, more than a million of them children. Or, in 19th century US, it was forbidden to teach African Americans, and a woman called Margaret Douglass was arrested and imprisoned for teaching children to read and write. and so on.

and goodbye
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Last edited by Therese; 02-14-2015 at 06:02 PM.
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  #8  
Unread 02-14-2015, 09:18 PM
demetraceres demetraceres is offline
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Re: rebel and intransigent people

Therese said everything that should be said on this subject, so my difficult Uranus is gonna stay happy, calm and flexible
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  #9  
Unread 02-16-2015, 03:32 AM
Lin Lin is offline
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Re: rebel and intransigent people

I absolutely agree with Therese.

LyP- you are mixing together several different types of personalities into one lump.
This is not the way astrology works. Each planet has its own function and dynamic.

EACH planet can 'support' or 'undermine' a planet it aspects.

One can be a rebel without being a bandit. I know. I AM one.

I am an astrologer. It's not the only profession I've ever had but it's the last one I'll ever have. It's the most "authentic" for me.
It took a lot of rebelling and work and time and fighting with family and others who thought I was crazy to want to learn this science and spend so much of my time doing this.

I follow my own rules, but I also follow the rules of my community....pay taxes, try to be a good neighbor. I've been married twice, have grown children, and was a good mother who taught my children to be authentic.

Being AUTHENTIC and following your own WAY ..................and also NOT playing by the rules of others or using someone elses "VALUE SYSTEM" is just being unique.

YOu can have periods of leaving your friends and family behind and setting off on your own....and being solitary and finding yourself...
AND ALSO then wanting a family life of your own, a home of your own where you feel comfort and joy.

That is the 'journey of life.' Some people do this by following the tried and true rules of the ordinary.....and some people have to make up their own rules as they go along.

Strong Sun, Powerful Uranus, strong Saturn, conflict, contradiction, powerful 9th house or Jupiter...searching for your own philosophy and beliefs....these are your God given rights as a human being. DON"T LABEL yourself.

I call myself a maverick. but I also have one home...one physical home. But my mental and spiritual home is everywhere.
I defy definition. But my mind is OPEN and FREE. That way information can get in and I can decide what I like and what I want to let go of.
LIN
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Last edited by Lin; 02-16-2015 at 03:34 AM.
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  #10  
Unread 02-19-2015, 07:37 AM
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CapAquaPis CapAquaPis is offline
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Cool Re: rebel and intransigent people

The social and cultural turmoil and upheaval in the world (esp. western countries' trends of liberalism and counter-culture) of the 1960s-70s occurred when Uranus, the planet of reform and rebellion was in Leo, Virgo and Libra. These signs are opposite Aquarius (directly ruled by Uranus), as well Pisces (12th or last sign of the zodiac) and Aries (first sign). By the time Uranus was in Scorpio (1974), political crises and economic recession occurred and has slowed down this movement by 1980 just when Uranus entered Sagittarius brought in a more conservative decade (esp. the USA). In the 1960s and 70s, the young adults then protested against the establishment and oppose materialism, then in the 1980s the new crop of young adults (the "Yuppies") were more egoistic and loved the stock market.

There are other planetary alignments and positions of Saturn, Neptune and Pluto involved at the time, but nonetheless Uranus played a key role in causing major changes in society to eventually gave us new ideas, different sets of morality and ethics, and more emphasis of personal freedom not present before the 1960s. When you have the right mix, it can ferment to a stable brew or combust into chaos. Uranus in Capricorn (its co-ruler) in the late 1980s-early 90s was declined economic growth and rediscovery of 1960s-70s liberalism, although it hadn't replaced the neoconservative fiscal policies and rampant materialism that developed in the "uber-me" decade (1980s) vs the "free-to-be/me" decade (1970s).

For a generation born under a Capricornian or Aquarian Uranus now in their 20s, I feel they have a more liberal (unrefined or unrestricted) if not highly "rebellious" spirit as they grew up in a different world of the 1990s and 2000s: the 21st century, new millennia and the Aquarian age, than their parents and esp. grandparents before the dawning of this era. They may lived in the best economy in US history either under Reagan in the 1980s or Clinton in the 1990s...to also had lived in the worst economy in 8 decades under Bush Jr. in the 2000s and a difficult recovery under Obama in the 2010s. The Uranus in Cap/Aqua generation (or Millennials) don't seek the materialistic wealth they observed to dried up, they want change and willing to stand up for themselves and improve their livelihoods.
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or , I have the same ruling planets: Uranus and Saturn. I see the Cancer rising. Aries in the MC and Venus was her name!
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