Finally figured out the Scorpio worship in modern astrology.

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AstroAssist

Banned
I used to wonder why it was the case on so many astrology websites, especially modern ones, to try and make Scorpios seem like the Marvel character called The Punisher. "Strongest sign" gets thrown around a lot as well as, and this makes me laugh, Scorpio somehow being a stronger Mars sign than the god of war himself Aries. Forget the old domicile nonsense, it is just that, nonsense.

Figured this out by, well, just knowing the sign of Scorpio itself.

Scorpios are the kind of people who are power hungry but not as transparent and honest in obtaining power. To them, it is all about being "hidden" and an example of this is putting on one face in public and another in their real life. In other words, they are very calculating people who are power hungry but might try to sound morally self-righteous in front of others. An example of this was politician Hillary Clinton who was soundly defeated by Donald Trump due to the very fact that she came off as power hungry.

This is also a sign of envy and jealously.

A Scorpio guy will look at a Taurus guy that is handsome and then try to say that he is better than him because he is a "better person" or "not as shallow". Yet at the same time, the Scorpio man envies the Taurus man for his handsome looks and wishes that he had what that man has, yet he cannot obtain that very thing.

So how does this play into the aggressive over-promotion of Scorpio among modern astrologers?

So a sign like say a Leo will go right to Times Square, pull out a megaphone and say that Leos are awesome. Scorpios are a bit more secretive so they rely on internet blogs and other mediums to make themselves appear stronger than they actually are, often saying nonsense such as how they are a better sun and mars placement than Aries and a load of other garbage. All the while, attempting to come off as impartial or pretending to be another zodiac sign, all to spread a false message but also over-promote themselves.

It all comes down to a desperate need for power but through indirect means since natives of this sign tend to lack the charisma and social prowess (no one actually likes them) in order to get it directly.
 
obsidianmineral

obsidianmineral

Well-known member
AstroAssist said:
I used to wonder why it was the case on so many astrology websites, especially modern ones, to try and make Scorpios seem like the Marvel character called The Punisher. "Strongest sign" gets thrown around a lot as well as, and this makes me laugh, Scorpio somehow being a stronger Mars sign than the god of war himself Aries. Forget the old domicile nonsense, it is just that, nonsense.

Figured this out by, well, just knowing the sign of Scorpio itself.

Scorpios are the kind of people who are power hungry but not as transparent and honest in obtaining power. To them, it is all about being "hidden" and an example of this is putting on one face in public and another in their real life. In other words, they are very calculating people who are power hungry but might try to sound morally self-righteous in front of others. An example of this was politician Hillary Clinton who was soundly defeated by Donald Trump due to the very fact that she came off as power hungry.

This is also a sign of envy and jealously.

A Scorpio guy will look at a Taurus guy that is handsome and then try to say that he is better than him because he is a "better person" or "not as shallow". Yet at the same time, the Scorpio man envies the Taurus man for his handsome looks and wishes that he had what that man has, yet he cannot obtain that very thing.

So how does this play into the aggressive over-promotion of Scorpio among modern astrologers?

So a sign like say a Leo will go right to Times Square, pull out a megaphone and say that Leos are awesome. Scorpios are a bit more secretive so they rely on internet blogs and other mediums to make themselves appear stronger than they actually are, often saying nonsense such as how they are a better sun and mars placement than Aries and a load of other garbage. All the while, attempting to come off as impartial or pretending to be another zodiac sign, all to spread a false message but also over-promote themselves.

It all comes down to a desperate need for power but through indirect means since natives of this sign tend to lack the charisma and social prowess (no one actually likes them) in order to get it directly.
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I have a Scorpio Mars. People would expect me to boast and brag and say how Scorpios are so cool, but I totally agree with this post! The Scorpio archetype is so overrated indeed. I prefer other signs much more. I have to admit, looking at what you have said about Scorpios, I do see my past self in some descriptions. I have always tried to find true meaning and go beyond just looks and outward appearances, like you said.

However, I have rightfully learned that secretly resenting what you criticize is bad. Over the years, I have almost completely stopped caring about whether I am seen as better looking, more confident, a good leader, diplomatic, caring, loving, etc. I do not have a care for these things. I don't care if I'm seen as an angel or as the devil. All I know is that I have the ability to decide what's the best thing and have standards from thinking and using reason, not because society imposes morality or any of that garbage. I choose to love others and to be generous because I know it's right and am like that deep inside, not because society wants me to be.

People that fantasize and idolize Scorpios these days, especially in this forum, are sickening to me. Who cares about all those deep intense emotions? What matters is what you do and your actions in the end. It's not about being so cool for finding out the absolute truth! It's about finding the absolute truth from a pure intention. I always try to be as pure as possible. That's why I think the Sun is more likeable as a concept than anything related to Scorpio.
 
Scorpio90

Scorpio90

Well-known member
Thanks for talking about us and making us even bigger! Good or bad, but talking about us as always :), kisses and good life :lol::lol::lol:
 
Whoam1

Whoam1

Well-known member
Scorpios are aggressive, sexual, self veiling and have freedom motif. Being of Mars and Uranus.

The difference between Scorpio and Aries is Aries is emotionally challenged therefore unstable and more outward than Scorpio.

I think [in a biased way] Capricorn is the og badass.

Commonality between them is Mars. Capricorn seeks the dark and isn't as prideful as Scorpio btw.
 
L

love-thinking

Well-known member
AstroAssist said:
I used to wonder why it was the case on so many astrology websites, especially modern ones, to try and make Scorpios seem like the Marvel character called The Punisher. "Strongest sign" gets thrown around a lot as well as, and this makes me laugh, Scorpio somehow being a stronger Mars sign than the god of war himself Aries. Forget the old domicile nonsense, it is just that, nonsense.

Figured this out by, well, just knowing the sign of Scorpio itself.

Scorpios are the kind of people who are power hungry but not as transparent and honest in obtaining power. To them, it is all about being "hidden" and an example of this is putting on one face in public and another in their real life. In other words, they are very calculating people who are power hungry but might try to sound morally self-righteous in front of others. An example of this was politician Hillary Clinton who was soundly defeated by Donald Trump due to the very fact that she came off as power hungry.

This is also a sign of envy and jealously.

A Scorpio guy will look at a Taurus guy that is handsome and then try to say that he is better than him because he is a "better person" or "not as shallow". Yet at the same time, the Scorpio man envies the Taurus man for his handsome looks and wishes that he had what that man has, yet he cannot obtain that very thing.

So how does this play into the aggressive over-promotion of Scorpio among modern astrologers?

So a sign like say a Leo will go right to Times Square, pull out a megaphone and say that Leos are awesome. Scorpios are a bit more secretive so they rely on internet blogs and other mediums to make themselves appear stronger than they actually are, often saying nonsense such as how they are a better sun and mars placement than Aries and a load of other garbage. All the while, attempting to come off as impartial or pretending to be another zodiac sign, all to spread a false message but also over-promote themselves.

It all comes down to a desperate need for power but through indirect means since natives of this sign tend to lack the charisma and social prowess (no one actually likes them) in order to get it directly.
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You're not entirely wrong. But I'll tell you the reason why I feel like most people like the scorpio archetype. Many people have strong pluto in their chart, sometimes along with other planets, sometimes it is the single most important planet. However, if you look at real life, scorpio traits aren't really valued. You're a witch, delve into the occult, tarot, astrology, paranormal or conspiracy theories, you're ostracized for being weird. You're obsessed in a relationship? Go get counseling. You're into BDSM or kinky things in bed? Many people will look at you like you need help. You're jealous? Again, you're invalidated. In the astrological world, you can validate and blame all of these ostracized traits on scorpio or your pluto placement and glamourize it under the notion that you're mysterious and sexy. You have a hotter friend that is also intelligent(venus, or even mercury), well you're the deep, sexy, mysterious one with a whole load of sex appeal.

I think in general, pluto is our dark side and it is ostracized in the real world so we look for other means to validate our dark side but we do it because accepting our dark side while adopting this glamorous guise of mysterious, deep and sexy is so alluring to us. Most people have some aspect of pluto in aspect to something in their chart. They come to astrological forums to validate that part. Hope that makes sense.
 
A

aldebaran

Well-known member
"Scorpio somehow being a stronger Mars sign than the god of war himself Aries. "

Aries deals with energy, wealth, power as force;

Scorpio deals with the seen or unseen, power as politics.

Follow the path of Diomedes as described by Homer on the Iliad, there's much about this subject.
 
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Osamenor

Osamenor

Staff member
AstroAssist said:
I thought I was special for having a Plutonian chart but apparently everyone has a plutonian chart?
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Yes and no. Everyone has Pluto in their chart, somewhere. Everyone has some Plutonian influence. But Pluto is stronger in some charts than others.

The more strengthening factors Pluto has, the more Plutonian the chart is. Factors that strengthen a planet are these:

- Being domiciled--that is, in a sign it rules. Your Pluto is.

- Being angular--that is, in the first, fourth, seventh, or tenth house, and/or conjunct the AC, DC, MC, or IC. Your Pluto isn't, but the other strengthening factors it has more than make up for that.

- Aspecting the sun or the moon. Your Pluto aspects both.

- Aspecting planets. The more of your planets are aspected by Pluto, the more Plutonian your chart is. This one definitely applies to you.

- Being the chart ruler. For Pluto to be your chart ruler (if you use the modern rulers), you would have to have Scorpio rising. Since you don't, that one doesn't apply.

- Dispositing the sun or moon. That is, rules the sign the sun or moon is in. Since you don't have a Scorpio sun or Scorpio moon, that doesn't apply to you.

- Being a singleton. If a hemisphere--that is, either the upper or lower half of the chart, or either the right side or the left side of the chart, has only one planet in it, that planet is a singleton. A planet might also be considered a singleton if it's the only one in its quadrant (houses 1-3, houses 4-6, houses 7-9, or houses 10-12), but not the only in its hemisphere. Doesn't apply to your Pluto.

But, a domiciled Pluto aspecting nearly everything in your chart is enough to give you a strongly Plutonian chart. Since Pluto is the only planet in your third house, and third house indicates our perceptions, it gets to color your perception of everything. You see the world through a very Plutonian lens.
 
E

ErosFolly

New member
obsidianmineral said:
I have a Scorpio Mars. People would expect me to boast and brag and say how Scorpios are so cool, but I totally agree with this post! The Scorpio archetype is so overrated indeed. I prefer other signs much more. I have to admit, looking at what you have said about Scorpios, I do see my past self in some descriptions. I have always tried to find true meaning and go beyond just looks and outward appearances, like you said.

However, I have rightfully learned that secretly resenting what you criticize is bad. Over the years, I have almost completely stopped caring about whether I am seen as better looking, more confident, a good leader, diplomatic, caring, loving, etc. I do not have a care for these things. I don't care if I'm seen as an angel or as the devil. All I know is that I have the ability to decide what's the best thing and have standards from thinking and using reason, not because society imposes morality or any of that garbage. I choose to love others and to be generous because I know it's right and am like that deep inside, not because society wants me to be.

People that fantasize and idolize Scorpios these days, especially in this forum, are sickening to me. Who cares about all those deep intense emotions? What matters is what you do and your actions in the end. It's not about being so cool for finding out the absolute truth! It's about finding the absolute truth from a pure intention. I always try to be as pure as possible. That's why I think the Sun is more likeable as a concept than anything related to Scorpio.
Click to expand...
So beautifully put.
Overcoming our “negative” traits or balancing them is the goal, isn’t it?
 
A

AstroAssist

Banned
I feel like in today's world, Scorpio is actually one of the weaker signs when it comes to political power and will tend to lose to a sign like a Gemini. The reason is because we live in a social media age and an age of transparency where people want leaders who they see as being out there.

Scorpios thrive on hiding things which is why they do well in a dictatorship but in a Democratic society, they tend to fail a lot when pursuing power. I think this is why Aquarius has been one of the most common signs for US presidents and it is rare for American presidents to be Scorpios.

I look at how both Obama and Trump were able to effectively defeat a Scorpio candidate and in the end, they did it through being more accessible and out there.

We live in an age where the more you hide from the public the less trustful they get and the more power you lose.

I notice with a lot of Scorpios, it is about staying in hiding and trying to work from the shadows but it doesn't work well with a messenger sign like Gemini who thrives on relaying information.

As for Leos, I won't say much, can't be biased towards my own sign but I think any sign that can relay information and really shine the light on darkness will effectively defeat a Scorpio majority of the time.
 
Osamenor

Osamenor

Staff member
AstroAssist said:
Scorpios thrive on hiding things which is why they do well in a dictatorship but in a Democratic society, they tend to fail a lot when pursuing power. I think this is why Aquarius has been one of the most common signs for US presidents and it is rare for American presidents to be Scorpios.....

As for Leos, I won't say much, can't be biased towards my own sign but I think any sign that can relay information and really shine the light on darkness will effectively defeat a Scorpio majority of the time.
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It's also rare for American presidents to be Leos. There have only been two Leo presidents, and they both have charts with strongly Aquarian messages.

Obama has Aquarius rising and an angular Uranus (on his Leo descendant), while his Leo sun is tucked away in the sixth house of service. His campaign slogan--"Change We Can Believe In"--was as Aquarian/Uranian as a slogan can possibly be. All that makes for a strongly Aquarian kind of presentation, and a politician remarkably unegotistic for a politician, especially a president. No drama Obama.

Bill Clinton has the Leo part of his chart much more prominent--in the quite visible eleventh house, which is packed--but the eleventh house is, in modern astrology, correlated with Aquarius. He also has Libra rising and a cluster of Libra planets in the first house, giving him a strong air sign quality, and his Jupiter in Libra trines his ninth house Gemini Uranus. A lot of air, connected in that way, makes for plenty of traits similar to Aquarius.

The Sibley chart of the U.S. (most commonly used natal chart for the country--nations have birth charts of their own) is also strongly Aquarian, with a late degree Aquarius moon forming a trine to Mars in Gemini and applying trine (out of sign) to Venus and Jupiter in early Cancer (Jupiter rules the chart, since its ascendant is Sagittarius).

The leader of any country has to have a natal chart that vibes well with the country's chart in some way. Lots of charts can, but one key point is that in the case of the U.S., the leader needs some significant Aquarian and Uranian traits (Uranus is on the Sibley chart's DC, but in the sixth). They don't necessarily have to be a solar Aquarius (though more presidents have been Aquariuses than any other sun sign), but if they're not, then they need other Aquarius-like chart messages.
 
A

AstroAssist

Banned
While there have not been as many Leo presidents, the ones we have had have been very recent.

Bill Clinton in the 90s then Obama.

If you take it into account, Trump has a lot of Leo influence in his chart and even Leo as his rising sign.
 
Osamenor

Osamenor

Staff member
AstroAssist said:
If you take it into account, Trump has a lot of Leo influence in his chart and even Leo as his rising sign.
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The Leo rising is in dispute. It could be very late Leo or very early Virgo, depending on the accuracy of his recorded birth time.

Either way, he has an out of bounds Mars conjunct his AC. That makes for very powerful Mars energy--and, in Trump's case, he's manifesting it as a runaway, very immature Mars.

Every candidate who got even close to winning the primaries in 2016 has a very powerful Mars. No matter who won that election, it was going to be a very Marsy presidency, and it was a very Marsy election. The astrological conditions were right for that.

Hillary Clinton is a mature Mars person. She's not irrational, not flying off the wall like Trump. Thanks to all that Scorpio, people see her as the archetypal witch--for better or worse. Bernie Sanders seems to be more of a firecracker Mars type, but still a principled one, not an immature, out of control Mars person like Trump. With all three, though, the underlying theme is Mars.
 
A

AstroAssist

Banned
What makes for a powerful mars anyways and how do I find out how strong or weak it is in a natal chart? I have been confused on mines since it is in an air sign.

I'll say your post does come with a lot of bias towards Hillary, nothing wrong with that since we all have our political views but I wouldn't say any candidate was mature or immature. Trump was just playing the archetype of what a lot of flyover states in America tend to like and look up to, the uber-macho tough guy. I'd say he was smart for doing it giving that it won him the presidency.

My point being with my post, we might have had few Leo presidents but two of the last four presidents have been Leos and Trump has various planets in Leo even though he is a Gemini.
 
Witchyone

Witchyone

Well-known member
I agree with you that there is an affinity for Scorpio and Scorpionic qualities among contemporary astrologers that you would not have found a generation ago. I think it's because the Pluto in Scorpio generation is currently at peak adulthood. Their way of seeing the world is dominant in popular culture and on the internet. Anything traditional, especially as it relates to love and sex, is seen as suspect and worthy of getting tossed out with the bath water, while traits that were once considered detestable (being concerned with issues of power, selfish and vengeful, closed-off and distrustful, and emotionally cold) are seen as prudent and acceptable. These are negative Scorpio traits. They do have positive ones, as well, of course.

I miss the egalitarian, open-minded, fair, and androgynous feel of the Pluto in Libra generation badly. I guess that means I'm officially old.

That said, I think your obsession with this topic, OP, makes you yourself seem to be stuck in negative Scorpio traits.
 
A

AstroAssist

Banned
Witchyone said:
That said, I think your obsession with this topic, OP, makes you yourself seem to be stuck in negative Scorpio traits.
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In some weird odd way, I love that about myself. I am happy that I have a revenge centered mentality and hold on to things as well as the fact that I can be a hateful POS rather than letting things go.

All that said, I do think Leo gets mis-represented a great deal being a happy go lucky jolly sign.
 
Witchyone

Witchyone

Well-known member
AstroAssist said:
In some weird odd way, I love that about myself. I am happy that I have a revenge centered mentality and hold on to things as well as the fact that I can be a hateful POS rather than letting things go.

All that said, I do think Leo gets mis-represented a great deal being a happy go lucky jolly sign.
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If you like those qualities in yourself, why do you hate them so much in others? That doesn't make much sense to me.

If you were just a sun placement, having it in Leo likely would make you a warm, friendly, capable, strong, and loyal person who has the weakness of sometimes being a bit self-centered: the hero archetype. But, as I'm sure you know, no one is just the sun placement, and that placement itself shows up differently in different Leos according to how it's aspected.
 
M

magnolia8

Well-known member
I know someone whose style is to go to war with those that cross him. In the workplace, this has translated into him getting enemies fired, destroying their reputation, etc. He’s very tactical.

He has Leo sun, Leo Asc, Leo Mars and a strong Saturn.
 
Osamenor

Osamenor

Staff member
AstroAssist said:
All that said, I do think Leo gets mis-represented a great deal being a happy go lucky jolly sign.
Click to expand...

Witchyone said:
If you were just a sun placement, having it in Leo likely would make you a warm, friendly, capable, strong, and loyal person who has the weakness of sometimes being a bit self-centered: the hero archetype. But, as I'm sure you know, no one is just the sun placement, and that placement itself shows up differently in different Leos according to how it's aspected.
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And also according to how the native is responding to it. Leo--that is, pure Leo; I'm using the sign as an archetype here, not as shorthand for "everyone born in the last week and a half of July or first three weeks of August"--is warm, friendly, capable, strong, and loyal if it's a healthy and well adjusted Leo. To that, I would add generous, and the caveat that the warm and friendly qualities don't always mean extroverted and outgoing. Some Leo-driven people are introverted, some are downright shy or reserved, but even in those cases, the warmth and friendliness and generosity would be evident to people who are close to them.

A Leo-driven person who is not healthy and well adjusted would be prone to either arrogance or low self esteem. Either way, it would be coming from a lack of an appropriate sense of self worth. For Leo people, especially Leo sun people (the sun being core personal growth), sense of self is paramount. If you have a strong and appropriate sense of self, you're in your power, in your joy, and it radiates. If you don't, you become centered on yourself in a very negative way. Either you overestimate yourself, or you underestimate yourself.
 
A

AstroAssist

Banned
I actually believe, given that it is my sign and I have a lot of it in my chart, that most Leos are real good at cruelty if need be. All of this warm, affectionate and buddy-buddy stuff is good for close friends and people who are on our good side. I would go to bat for my friends and make sacrifices to people who have been on my good side or helped me. A lot of the good traits of Leos revolve around people who have been good to them.

The issue is, so much of this stuff about how an angered Leo is either going to have the woe is me mentality or turn into some snob is off base. I actually think that unlike fellow fire-sign Aries who will straight up punch you in the face, Leos are more tactical in the way that a king is tactical when disciplining anyone that has wronged them.

Won't get their own hands dirty but there is almost always a promise that the subject will get what is coming to them. I don't think the darker traits and traits of an angry Leo are properly discussed.

Even using common sense, you have a fixed sign that is big on pride, why are astrologers saying it is a good idea to step on those toes?
 
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