tanamarios
Well-known member
Hi everyone , i just want to know which equation for Part of Fortune is the correct one , the fixed formula used by Ptolemy (ASC+Moon-Sun) or theDay/Night change(Asc+Moon-Sun (day) Asc+Sun-Moon(night)) 
Confusion about Part of Fortune
- Thread starter tanamarios
- Start date
Kaiousei no Senshi
Premium Member
Day/Night change is the proper one.
tanamarios
Well-known member
oh thank you so much
tanamarios
Well-known member
then my part of fortune is 9 degrees 39' Cancer in my 10th house . My part of spirit is 13 degree aprox. in Sagittarius.
Although a minority (of Ptolemaic die-hards) follow Ptolemy and always use the day formula, the majority of us switch, as KNSenshi indicated. So your POF is disposited by the Moon, but the equally important (if not more important because it reflects your mind and spirit) POS is connected with Jupiter. Check the natal and then the progressed relationship of Moon and Jupiter and you'll get some idea of the underlying relationship between the "outer" you (POF) and the inner you (POS) Actually we may learn a lot by considerations of the POF and POS, and their planetary significators.
BOOGY99
Well-known member
Hi everyone , i just want to know which equation for Part of Fortune is the correct one , the fixed formula used by Ptolemy (ASC+Moon-Sun) or theDay/Night change(Asc+Moon-Sun (day) Asc+Sun-Moon(night))
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this link might help on arabic parts
it works it out for you xxxx
http://www.noendpress.com/pvachier/arabicparts/index.php
Kaiousei no Senshi
Premium Member
You're either day or night, there isn't an inbetween. So, it's not that difficult to calculate either way.
Kaiousei no Senshi
Premium Member
If the Sun is exactly conjunct the Descendant than you're a night birth because the Sun's center is below the horizon. That's why there are night formulas, because different planets are dominate at different times.
E
eternalautumn
And if it's exactly conjunct the Ascendant, you're a day birth, right?
The changing formulas make much more sense to me, but that may be because I study Hellenstic and medieval methods, which emphasize the importance of the day/night difference in nativities. Modern delineation techniques don't rely as much on sect, so it makes sense that a person practicing modern astrology would use one unchanging formula. As always, it comes down to what makes sense to the astrologer. Things are a lot easier to understand with an entire philosophy supporting them, though. Just throwing that out there.
The changing formulas make much more sense to me, but that may be because I study Hellenstic and medieval methods, which emphasize the importance of the day/night difference in nativities. Modern delineation techniques don't rely as much on sect, so it makes sense that a person practicing modern astrology would use one unchanging formula. As always, it comes down to what makes sense to the astrologer. Things are a lot easier to understand with an entire philosophy supporting them, though. Just throwing that out there.
(Disclaimer: following is my merely my own opinion and experience)
Day birth or night birth? Under certain circumstances this can be a difficult question for many practitioners. A lot of often complicated measures have been devised to deal with the diffiulties of twilight births (and events too) I'm afraid I have a simple mind, so what I've always done in these questions is as follows:
-what was the exact time of the birth (or event-or horary question)
-then I look up that time on a sunrise/sunset calendar (for the date and place)
-if the time is after the given sunrise time, to me its "day"; if it is before the given sunset time, its "day"
-if the time is before the given sunrise time, its "night"; if after the given sunset time, its "night
HOWEVER
There is one additional factor. I believe (for astrological calculations) in the "real" time (sun time-aka sundial time, which was universally used in astrology prior to the invention of civil-local mean time-in the 1800's)
The official clock time given everywhere is local mean time-but we want to know if in fact the body of the sun has cracked the horizon, or is beneath it. There is a varying difference between civil clock time and the sun's time-from as little as 1 minute difference (fast or slow relative to the clock), to as much as 15 minutes on some days of the year. Since what I want to know, in the question here, is whether the sun is ACTUALLY above (or below) the horizon, I google "Daily Sun Data", then check the date, and find if the sun is faster or slower than clock time. I then check the birth (or event) time against the civil sunset/sunrise time, then modify that using the "Local Apparent Time" given in the Daily Sun Data table. This tells me if the sun were actually up (day) or down (night) at the birth or event time.
Example:
Event occured (we'll say) at 6:45 pm (clock time) in Hollywood California on such and such date: was it a day event (sun not having yet set) or was it a night event (sun under horizon). I look up sunrise/sunset for the date and location: I find the sun set (civil clock time) at 6:40 pm; but I now look at the Daily Sun Data table and find that the sun's time on that day is 12 minutes slower than clock time: this means that the sun actually went below the horizon that day 12 minutes later than the given clock time: ie, in this example actual sunset occured at 6:52 pm (not 6:40 pm) Since our event occured at 6:45 pm (clock time), and since the sun actually did not go below the horizon until 6:52 pm, our event turns out to actually be a day (sun still above the horizon) event.
Anyway, that's how my simple mind handles the question of day or night, and also the determination of planetary hours. Has worked well for me over the years, thought I'd pass it along (for what its worth)
Day birth or night birth? Under certain circumstances this can be a difficult question for many practitioners. A lot of often complicated measures have been devised to deal with the diffiulties of twilight births (and events too) I'm afraid I have a simple mind, so what I've always done in these questions is as follows:
-what was the exact time of the birth (or event-or horary question)
-then I look up that time on a sunrise/sunset calendar (for the date and place)
-if the time is after the given sunrise time, to me its "day"; if it is before the given sunset time, its "day"
-if the time is before the given sunrise time, its "night"; if after the given sunset time, its "night
HOWEVER
There is one additional factor. I believe (for astrological calculations) in the "real" time (sun time-aka sundial time, which was universally used in astrology prior to the invention of civil-local mean time-in the 1800's)
The official clock time given everywhere is local mean time-but we want to know if in fact the body of the sun has cracked the horizon, or is beneath it. There is a varying difference between civil clock time and the sun's time-from as little as 1 minute difference (fast or slow relative to the clock), to as much as 15 minutes on some days of the year. Since what I want to know, in the question here, is whether the sun is ACTUALLY above (or below) the horizon, I google "Daily Sun Data", then check the date, and find if the sun is faster or slower than clock time. I then check the birth (or event) time against the civil sunset/sunrise time, then modify that using the "Local Apparent Time" given in the Daily Sun Data table. This tells me if the sun were actually up (day) or down (night) at the birth or event time.
Example:
Event occured (we'll say) at 6:45 pm (clock time) in Hollywood California on such and such date: was it a day event (sun not having yet set) or was it a night event (sun under horizon). I look up sunrise/sunset for the date and location: I find the sun set (civil clock time) at 6:40 pm; but I now look at the Daily Sun Data table and find that the sun's time on that day is 12 minutes slower than clock time: this means that the sun actually went below the horizon that day 12 minutes later than the given clock time: ie, in this example actual sunset occured at 6:52 pm (not 6:40 pm) Since our event occured at 6:45 pm (clock time), and since the sun actually did not go below the horizon until 6:52 pm, our event turns out to actually be a day (sun still above the horizon) event.
Anyway, that's how my simple mind handles the question of day or night, and also the determination of planetary hours. Has worked well for me over the years, thought I'd pass it along (for what its worth)
Kaiousei no Senshi
Premium Member
You too. That's what makes it fun, right?
Edited to say that (I'm surprised I didn't think of it before) for those of you with the planetary hours calculator Chronos XP, it does a very good job with calculating nightfall and daybreak.
That's what makes it fun, right?Edited to say that (I'm surprised I didn't think of it before) for those of you with the planetary hours calculator Chronos XP, it does a very good job with calculating nightfall and daybreak.
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Kaiousei no Senshi
Premium Member
Does it really not?! What are you running??
Olivia:
Glad you found my info of practical value. No genius on my part, though: years ago I was planning to do a special operation which was to be initiated at the moment of sunrise. I looked up the official time of sunrise, then headed out to be at the top of a hill just before that time, when I saw that the sun was already rising in the sky! Thought my clock was wrong. Tried again the next morning-same thing happened: sun was already up before the official time of sunrise! I couldn't understand what the heck was going on! A while latter, I happened to come across the term "Local Apparent Time", and found out what was going on (as I explained in my posting).
Glad you found my info of practical value. No genius on my part, though: years ago I was planning to do a special operation which was to be initiated at the moment of sunrise. I looked up the official time of sunrise, then headed out to be at the top of a hill just before that time, when I saw that the sun was already rising in the sky! Thought my clock was wrong. Tried again the next morning-same thing happened: sun was already up before the official time of sunrise! I couldn't understand what the heck was going on! A while latter, I happened to come across the term "Local Apparent Time", and found out what was going on (as I explained in my posting).
tanamarios
Well-known member
i did it , and they use the day/night change formula.
Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris
Well-known member
I was born at 7:45 pm San Antonio, Texas time....and at Astro.com I use the day calculation for Part of Fortune. Mine is at Scorpio 10 degrees with it's depositor being my Mars in Pisces 22 degrees retrograde. I've always been happy with low overhead and my bills paid rather than overspending and stressing later.
Now than I think about it with transiting Jupiter headed toward my Mars....I should buy a lottery ticket! lol. (I hardly ever do buy them however)
Now than I think about it with transiting Jupiter headed toward my Mars....I should buy a lottery ticket! lol. (I hardly ever do buy them however)
Dear Amy,
Many of us would consider your 10Scorpio to be an even more "important" point than the Part of Fortune: you see (for those of us who follow the day/night switch dictum) when you use the day POF formula at night, you get the "Pars futorum", the "Part of Mystery", now known as the Part of Spirit! And this has to do with things like outlook, the mind, the temperament, what's "on the inside" of a person (Part of Fortune what's on the outside), and, for those more esoterically-minded like myself-even the nature of karma. See, there's really no "right" and "wrong" about calculating the POF-only the question of whether one is obtaining the POF or the Part of Spirit, and BOTH of these are of great importance.
Many of us would consider your 10Scorpio to be an even more "important" point than the Part of Fortune: you see (for those of us who follow the day/night switch dictum) when you use the day POF formula at night, you get the "Pars futorum", the "Part of Mystery", now known as the Part of Spirit! And this has to do with things like outlook, the mind, the temperament, what's "on the inside" of a person (Part of Fortune what's on the outside), and, for those more esoterically-minded like myself-even the nature of karma. See, there's really no "right" and "wrong" about calculating the POF-only the question of whether one is obtaining the POF or the Part of Spirit, and BOTH of these are of great importance.
Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris
Well-known member
I also know my part of Spirit Dr. Farr. It's the first chart posted on my signature....it's in Cancer 26 degrees in my natal 5th house. I also have my part of excellence in Pisces 26 degrees....wonder how transiting Jupiter will affect that as I wasn't into astrology the last go round.
And my part of Basic is in Cancer 2 degrees. A hellenistic astrologer provided me with those details. I don't even see those on the arabic parts calculator.
So my part of mystery is in Cancer (now called Spirit). I know Pisces and Scorpio can be myterious but I see myself as somebody who tends to tell on myself before others get to it. lol. Guess that's the Aries Moon in me. lol.
And my part of Basic is in Cancer 2 degrees. A hellenistic astrologer provided me with those details. I don't even see those on the arabic parts calculator.
So my part of mystery is in Cancer (now called Spirit). I know Pisces and Scorpio can be myterious but I see myself as somebody who tends to tell on myself before others get to it. lol. Guess that's the Aries Moon in me. lol.