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  #26  
Unread 02-16-2012, 02:41 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
tsmall, I've calculated your chart in an Alcabitius house system in my Morinus traditional software. It is a house system which was used in great deal in medieval times, and many of leading trad. astrologers today are using it.
Lets try to see what we'll find here.
Attachment 26929

Sun is indeed cadent, but Mercury and Jupiter are on the Ascendant. Mercury is within of 5 orbs and has strong influence over the ascendant.
Nor Sun nor Moon can be Hyleg. The first is in 12th the second in 6th.
Your syzygy prior the birth was New Moon, so the chart is Conjunctional.
We look at the Ascendant for potential Hyleg.
Ascendant is at 14 degrees Libra.
Domicil ruler = Venus 5 points
Exaltation = Saturn 4
Triplicity ruler = Saturn 3
Term ruler = Jupiter 2 points
Face ruler = Saturn = 1 point
Saturn takes the greatest dignity in this degree (it is the Almuten of the Ascendant).
In order to be Hyleg it must have an aspect, so lets look at this.
Saturn does not make an aspect. The 150 aspect was not familiar to the medievals.
Next we look at Venus as second with points.
She does not make an aspect either.
Next we look at Jupiter.
Jupiter on the Ascendant!
So Jupiter is the Almuten of the Hyleg Ascendant!
First, thank you for taking the time to explain this in a way that is so easy to understand! (And Saturn as Almuten of the ASC was a light bulb moment for this student! )

So ASC is Hyleg, and Jupiter is Alcocoden. What are the criteria for determining which years to take? In Whitney's chart, Mars is in detriment and peregrine, yet angular. We got to take the middle years to start. In this chart, Jupiter is angular and in his own term. Do we get to take the major years?

For the adding and subtracting of years based on aspects, Mars' square to Libra is out of orb for Jupiter, so would not be considered? Saturn makes no aspect as previously shown, and neither does Venus. Mercury is conjunct, but I don't know if it's considered benenfic or malefic in this chart. He's above the ASC but below the Sun in a day chart. Would he be considered? I am also guessing that we don't look at the luminaries for adding and subtracting?

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Unread 02-16-2012, 03:35 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Quote:
So ASC is Hyleg, and Jupiter is Alcocoden. What are the criteria for determining which years to take? In Whitney's chart, Mars is in detriment and peregrine, yet angular. We got to take the middle years to start. In this chart, Jupiter is angular and in his own term. Do we get to take the major years?
Yes I would take Jupiter's major years because it is angular (on AC almost in exact degree) and in its own terms.
I don't know about Jupiter being Under the Sun's Beams.

Quote:
For the adding and subtracting of years based on aspects, Mars' square to Libra is out of orb for Jupiter, so would not be considered? Saturn makes no aspect as previously shown, and neither does Venus. Mercury is conjunct, but I don't know if it's considered benenfic or malefic in this chart. He's above the ASC but below the Sun in a day chart. Would he be considered? I am also guessing that we don't look at the luminaries for adding and subtracting?
Even if they add or subtract, they are here out of orb.
So, in my opinion there is no adding nor subtraction.
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Unread 02-16-2012, 04:26 PM
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Hyleg and Alcocoden according to Bonnati (Cary Grant's chart)

Ok, so lets now analyze certain charts using only Bonnati's method for calculating the H & A.
I would take the chart of Cary Grant, the famous actor.
I don't know the year he died, I can see that he is born 1904 and assume that he is death by now.
I will try to give my opinion on his H & A., will leave you to give your judgments and in the end we will see the year of his death on Wikipedia.

Here's Bonatti's method for calculating the Hyleg:

Quote:
Bonatti uses Sun, Moon, PoF, Asc and SAN as potential hylegs.

General Rule: the hyleg must be aspected by at least one of its rulers

In a day chart, the potential hyleg is
1. Sun if in 1st, 11th or 10th
2. Sun in 7th, 8th, or 9th if it is in a masculine sign
3. Moon if in an angle or succedent house and in a feminine sign
4. Part of Fortune if chart is preventional and it is in a hylegical place or conjunct the
Asc.
5. Asc if chart is conjunctional and if it is aspected by any of it’s rulers or the Moon
6. SAN

By night, you start with the Moon instead of the Sun; same rules apply.

Bonatti’s comments on looking for the hyleg:
1. Ptolemy rejected an 8th house hyleg
2. Dorotheus rejected an 8th or 7th house Sun as hyleg unless it was in a
masculine sign in a day chart; he allowed it as hyleg in a nocturnal chart if it was in the 1st or 2nd house in a feminine sign
3. Moon angular or succedent is a fit hyleg regardless of sign although it is better if it is in a feminine sign in a woman’s chart or a masculine sign in a man’s chart
4. Dorotheus rejected a 9th House Moon as hyleg; Ptolemy accepted her if she was in the 9th in a feminine sign
5. SAN acceptable if the Sun, Moon, Asc ruler or any of the benefics are angular or
succedent and aspect the SAN.
(Taken from the yahoo group Angelicus Merlin).

Bonatti on finding the Alcocoden:

Quote:

Bonatti

Examine the dispositors of the Hyleg to see which one is in aspect to the Hyleg. If more than one is in aspect, take the one which “is closer to degree by aspect or by conjunction.
If they all “aspect equally” then
a) take the one which has the most dignities in the place of the Hyleg, or, if they
have equal dignities,
b) take the one which is angular or succedent, or, if they are all angular or
succedent,
c) take the one closest to its cusp, or, if they are still equal,
d) take the one who is strongest in its own place i.e. having the most essential
dignity in its own place, or, if they are still equal
e) take the one closest to the Sun without being combust
If any planet is 3º before or 5º after either the Asc or MC, “make him a participator with
the Hyleg” whether or not he has dignity there (in the place of the Hyleg?) and if he does
have dignity there he will be stronger than another planet not with the Asc or MC. If the
planet does not have dignity, his participation will be weaker.
If the Alcochoden is in the Asc or 10th, in Haym, in his own dignities gives his major
years.
If succedent, oriental (esp. in the 11th), in any of his own dignities and free from
impediments, gives his middle years.
If cadent under the same conditions, he gives his minor years but if impeded by being
retro or in his detriment or fall, or peregrine, or besieged by malefics, he will give his
minor years as months and minor months as weeks but if he also combust, he will give
his minor years and months as hours or, at the most, days.
If a benefic, strong, fortunate and received, aspects by conjunction, sextile or trine it
will add its own minor years plus its middle years as months. If he does not receive the
Alcochoden, or the aspect is a square or opposition20, he will give his minor years plus
the major years as days. But if the fortune is impeded it will only add its minor years as
months.

If the aspecting planet is a malefic conjunct, square or opposed to the Alcochoden,
subtract the malefics minor years. But, if the malefic is in his own dignities, he will only
subtract 1/3 of his minor years.
Mercury adds his minor years if he is with fortunes; subtracts them if he is with malefics.
Bonatti subtracts ¼ of the Alcochoden’s years if it is within 12º of the SN and says his
experience does not support the addition of ¼ years if it is within 12º of the NN.

Lets now examine the Cary Grant's chart with all these rules in mind:
cary grant.jpg

It is a night chart (Sun bellow the horizon). Moon in 3rd in masculine sign (Aquarius).
Sun is also in cadent 3rd house, so also not acceptable.
The Chart is Conjunctional (New Moon prior the birth) so we look at the Ascendant for potential Hyleg.
Ascendant is at 28 Libra. (Bonatti uses Ptolomeic terms and triplicities so we will follow him here).
Domicile ruler Venus = 5 points (no aspect)
Exaltation ruler Saturn = 4 points (no aspect)
Triplicity ruler Mercury = 3 points (aspect with square)
Term ruler Mars = 2 points (aspect with partile trine)
Face ruler Jupiter = 1 point (no aspect)
Now we need to choose between Mercury and Mars.

Bonatti says:
Quote:
Examine the dispositors of the Hyleg to see which one is in aspect to the Hyleg. If more
than one is in aspect, take the one which “is closer to degree by aspect or by conjunction
So we will take Mars because it is partile trine.

So we have Ascendant as Hyleg and Mars as Alcocoden.

Mars as Alcocoden has the following years:
Minor years: 15
Middle years: 40.5
Major years: 66

Mars in its own terms in angular house it will give its major years: 66.

Mars is alone there, does not have an aspect nor from benefic nor from malefic. So it will give its years (66) without adding or subtraction.
--------
Ok, I've seen his year of death after I've calculated this and I can see that I'm wrong. But will not tell the year of death yet, in order to leave you to try to give your own judgment.
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  #29  
Unread 02-16-2012, 05:02 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

I have a question about the Moon in this chart. Yes, it is in cadent house, but it is in angular sign (4th from the ASC)

Quote:
3. Moon angular or succedent is a fit hyleg regardless of sign although it is better if it is in a feminine sign in a woman’s chart or a masculine sign in a man’s chart
Would it be possible to try with Moon as Hyleg?
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  #30  
Unread 02-16-2012, 05:26 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

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Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
I have a question about the Moon in this chart. Yes, it is in cadent house, but it is in angular sign (4th from the ASC)



Would it be possible to try with Moon as Hyleg?
Yes, I thought of that. Though its not in angular sign but in succedent (Libra angular, scorpio succedent, sag cadent, capricorn angular, aquarius succedent).
I've discarded the Moon because some authors says that if the Moon is under the Sun Beams (17 degrees orb) then it can not be Hyleg. But it seems out that Bonatti does not use that rule so we can follow him here and try with the Moon being Hyleg.
Lets try.

Moon at 0 degrees Aquarius in 4th (near the 4th house cusp) and succedent by sign.
Saturn = 5 points
no exaltation here
Mercury = 3 points
Saturn = 2
Venus = 1

Saturn is the Almuten of the Moon. Lets see if he had an aspect to the Moon.
He is making 9 degrees conjunction with the Moon.
Lets see the Moiety of these two.
Moons orb is 12 degrees, Saturn's 10 = 22 degrees
Half of 22 is 11, so the moiety of this aspect between these two is 11 degrees.
Saturn is making a conjunction to the Moon. So, he is Moon's Almuten and Alcocoden as well.
Moon Hyleg, Saturn Alcocoden.

Saturn in domicile and angular it would give its major years (57).
It receives Sextile from Venus (benefic) in succedent house with no dignity in that place.
So we will add her minor years (8) and middle as months (45)
57 years + 8 years + 45 months (3 years and 9 months) = 68 years and 9 months.

We are still far away from the actual death of Cary Grant.

Robert Zoller says: "if you are one year around the Alcocoden's given years, you have found the Alcocoden" (Paraphrase).
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Unread 02-16-2012, 05:35 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Well, I am glad to see that at least my thought process was right, as my notes matched your post exactly. I even have my book open to see if the Saturn Moon conjunction is within a valid orb. I have to admit that after I made my calculations I peeked. 68 years 9 months is not even close.

Quote:
Robert Zoller says: "if you are one year around the Alcocoden's given years, you have found the Alcocoden" (Paraphrase).
Is it possible to work backwards?
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Unread 02-16-2012, 05:38 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

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Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
Well, I am glad to see that at least my thought process was right, as my notes matched your post exactly. I even have my book open to see if the Saturn Moon conjunction is within a valid orb. I have to admit that after I made my calculations I peeked. 68 years 9 months is not even close.



Is it possible to work backwards?
I don't understand the question
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  #33  
Unread 02-16-2012, 05:39 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

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Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
We are still far away from the actual death of Cary Grant.

Robert Zoller says: "if you are one year around the Alcocoden's given years, you have found the Alcocoden" (Paraphrase)
.
1904? How accurate is the data for Cary Grant's natal chart? If the Ascendant is inaccurate then how can the "Vital Life Force" of the native be accurately assessed? Time of occurrence of actual death is useful in rectifying the natal ascendant
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Unread 02-16-2012, 05:43 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
1904? How accurate is the data for Cary Grant's natal chart? If the Ascendant is inaccurate then how can the "Vital Life Force" of the native be accurately assessed? Time of occurrence of actual death is useful in rectifying the natal ascendant
Yes, I agree. If we do not find the Alcocoden we can try to rectify the chart, but first will try the same method with other person's charts, maybe Bonatti's method does not give results after all and we can try the method of Abu'Ali next.
Yes, the actual time of birth in those times was not so precise as today, I think..
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Unread 02-16-2012, 05:51 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
Yes, I agree. If we do not find the Alcocoden we can try to rectify the chart, but first will try the same method with other person's charts, maybe Bonatti's method does not give results after all and we can try the method of Abu'Ali next.
Yes, the actual time of birth in those times was not so precise as today, I think
..
OK Omnisphericus - Abu'Ali is next candidate !
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Unread 02-16-2012, 08:23 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

I think if we allow the whole sign aspect by Venus to the first option Alcocoden Mars, then we would have 11 years and 9 months plus to the Mars's 66. But this is still off with around 5 years, Cary Grant lived around 82 years and 10 months, and we have the number of 77 and 9 months.
He died out from a heart-attack.
But 5 years is not big difference. As we said in our earlier conversation, the modern day medicine and the way we live in the modern world is distinguished from the medieval. So it seems out that C.G lived a few years more than his Alcocoden shows.

I will look now for some other celebrity to continue our exercising but in meanwhile if someone have something to add to the chart examination of C.G. its free to add.
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Unread 02-16-2012, 08:24 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
I don't understand the question
I apologize. What I meant was based on the Robert Zoller quote, Venus must be Alcocoden. She gives 82 years. So I though perhaps by assuming Venus, we could then look for candidates for the Hyleg.

The Cary Grant chart has a B rating. I think JUPITERASC is correct about the birth time being off. Looking at the aspects, Venus has to be Alcocoden. She gives 82 years, and the aspects mean no adding or subtracting. Taking any other planet, based on the aspects, doesn't get us close to the proper number of years. Moving the birth time back by one hour changes the ASC to 17* Libra, sextile Venus. So ASC as Hyleg, and Venus as Alcocoden?

Omnisphericus, what if we look at AA rated charts, just so we can be sure we are working with correct birth times?
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  #38  
Unread 02-16-2012, 09:39 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

This is Princess Diana's chart. In whole house her Asc is the Hyleg (i think). Alcocoden is Jupiter ( i think again). Any thoughts?
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Unread 02-16-2012, 09:45 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
I apologize. What I meant was based on the Robert Zoller quote, Venus must be Alcocoden. She gives 82 years. So I though perhaps by assuming Venus, we could then look for candidates for the Hyleg.

The Cary Grant chart has a B rating. I think JUPITERASC is correct about the birth time being off. Looking at the aspects, Venus has to be Alcocoden. She gives 82 years, and the aspects mean no adding or subtracting. Taking any other planet, based on the aspects, doesn't get us close to the proper number of years. Moving the birth time back by one hour changes the ASC to 17* Libra, sextile Venus. So ASC as Hyleg, and Venus as Alcocoden?

Omnisphericus, what if we look at AA rated charts, just so we can be sure we are working with correct birth times?
tsmall, I think you are right! Your rectification with Venus aspecting the Asc is great! Yes we should look at the AA charts.
I wanted to post the chart of Janis Joplin but lets first see Lady Diana's chart.
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Unread 02-16-2012, 10:13 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

princess diana - rated A from memory..

whitney houston - rated AA from birth cert.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Houston,_Whitney
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Unread 02-16-2012, 10:20 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

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princess diana - rated A from memory..

whitney houston - rated AA from birth cert.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Houston,_Whitney
I know that Robert Zoller has rectified Lady Diana's chart. But I do not have that chart.
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Unread 02-17-2012, 02:34 AM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

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This is Princess Diana's chart. In whole house her Asc is the Hyleg (i think). Alcocoden is Jupiter ( i think again). Any thoughts?
I will try to give a shoot, even though I've never used WH for determining the H & A.

Day chart.
Sun in 8th but in feminine sign, it can not be Hyleg.
Moon in cadent house and in masculine sign, it can not be Hyleg.
Chart is Preventional, PoF (in your chart it is missing) is in 3Leo in 9th house.
Dispositors of the degree of PoF:
Sun (domicile and triplicity) and Saturn (term and face).
PoF is aspecting neither of both.

Now we look at the Syzygy degree.
It is a day chart so we look for the last new moon degree.
The last new moon lunation occurs on 21 Gemini.
The Almuten of that degree are Mercury and Saturn (they both hold 5 points).
Because Mercury is combust and in 8th I would take Saturn in 2nd being the Hyleg, though he is Retrograde but in its own sign.

So, Saturn at 27 Capricorn (in 2nd house) is Hyleg.
Venus, the triplicity ruler is Alcocoden because it is the only dispositor of Saturn which makes an aspect with him.

Venus cadent in 6th house but in its own sign would give her middle years (45).
But this is far from the real number. As I said I've never use this technique with whole sign houses.
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Unread 02-17-2012, 06:29 AM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Omnisphericus:

After looking at my notes on this subject, I see that I decided on either the Part of Fortune or Part of Hyleg (asc + Moon - PreNatal Lunation) for use as hyleg in my chart. Both are close together in the first house. Mercury then has the most essential dignity, and it is in the 10th house. The greater years apply and this would be 76 years. The Sun in my chart is conjunct fixed star Scheat. I think the combination could be called anareta. Certainly not hyleg.

My chart can be found here: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...pictureid=4321

I worked out the hyleg and alcocoden for various celebrities, politicians, ordinary people and royalty. There was a rather close correlation with the alcocoden years and the actual length of life. Empirical experimentation indicates that the hyleg can be in the eighth house. The hyleg and alcocoden need not aspect or behold each other at least for politicians and royalty.

The following two examples died violent deaths:

John F. Kennedy, 29 May 1917, 15:00, Brookline, Massachusetts. In Kennedy's chart the Sun is hyleg and in the 9th house in at 7 degrees Gemini. Mercury is alcocoden in the 8th house. Mercury is close between Jupiter and Mars. The Mercury years for a succeedant house is 48. Add the least years of Jupiter 12 and it becomes 60, and subtract the least years of Mars 15 and it becomes 45. JFK was 46 when he died.

Princess Diana of Wales, 1 July 1961, 19:45, Sandringham, England. Diana's Sun is in the 8th house at at 9 degrees Cancer. I have used it for the hyleg. The Moon has the most essential dignity and is in the 3rd house with Jupiter. The least years of the Moon are 25. Add the least years of Jupiter 12 and it becomes 37 for total years. Diana was 36 when she died.

Whole Sign Houses used.
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Unread 02-17-2012, 06:36 AM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Omnisphericus, some years ago I encountered an interesting method which involves a little maths, described as "Ptolemy's Method" by Astrologer Alessandro Barone


Ptolemy's method

When the apheta or Hyleg is occidental, the anaretic point is the western horizon i.e. : the man/woman dies when his/her apheta sets.

After computing the apheta's setting time, correct it by adding or subtracting the horary parts of the aspects the apheta encounters during its journey towards its setting.

The horary parts are, in modern terms, the meridian distance of the aspecting planet/s divided by its semiarc. These horary parts are subtracted from the years of the Hyleg in full, if the aspecting planet is on the ascendant, and proportionally decreased the closer it gets to the descendant.

Princess Diana's case illustrated the method:

Hyleg setting time +42d25m
Corrections
opp Saturn -15d43m
sext Mars -06d58m
sext Venus +01d26m
conj Mercury +01d33m
conj Sun +02d22m
trine Moon +11d27m
Total 36d32m

The time of death should then be 36.53 years (according to Ptolemy)

Interesting that the result is consistent with the date of the event, although if the ascendant were rectified by no more than a couple of minutes, it would have given the exact date.




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Unread 02-17-2012, 07:23 AM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

I am aware however that we are discussing the Hyleg and Alcocoden so let us consider Alessandro Barone describing Princess Diana's Hyleg and Alcocoden
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omnisphericus View Post
tsmall, I think you are right! Your rectification with Venus aspecting the Asc is great! Yes we should look at the AA charts.
I wanted to post the chart of Janis Joplin but lets first see Lady Diana's chart
.
Princess Diana's Hyleg and Alcocoden determination

Sun in
feminine sign and feminine quadrant: Moon below horizon, both discarded.

Lot of Fortune is Hyleg - Venus same rising time/declination - Ptolemy describes this situation as "equivalent signs", where length of day/night are equal . Their longitudinal difference from the solstice lies exactly in the same degree: Venus 35°36' and Hyleg 35°2'

This condition overcomes all others for eligibility as Alchochoden.
Venus is Alchochoden.

Venus is not cadent, so gives maximum years = 82.

These years must be diminished by 1/5 for any of the following 5 conditions, if missing:

House: Venus not cadent.
Dignity: Venus in domicile .
Oriental to the Sun : Venus oriental
direct in motion: Venus direct
in Haiz: Venus is not, being below the horizon.

Venus offers 82*4/5 = 65.6 years. BUT Venus afflicted by trine Saturn, from sign of short ascension, cutting Venus' years by the minor years of Saturn, i.e. 30.


65.6 - 30 = 35.6 = age Alchochoden gives for Princess Diana's death.

Very close: but we currently are unable to evaluate quantitatively:

1. Additional time offered by even a negative aspect with a benefic planet - square with the Moon in this case: measured in months or days, but no reliable tradition re: how many months or days granted.

2. Nodes influence: some say they add or diminish, others say they neither add nor diminish & in this case Venus is in aspect with the Nodes. So, due to these uncertainties, the result of this traditional method is reasonable.


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Unread 02-17-2012, 07:25 AM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

I have an interesting note to share. I've sort of been a bad kid and have been going through the charts of people I know to calculate their hylegs and alcocodens. I have one friend who is 24 whose alcocoden gives her roughly 22 years. She's obviously alive and well, but the interesting thing is last year she was sent to the ER for chest pains and was diagnosed with heart palpitations, she's on medicine for it now.
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Unread 02-17-2012, 09:21 AM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

So the system could work for people who die in accidents or homicides. But we need more examples to confirm how Hyleg and Alcoccoden work.

JUPITERASC, can you please shows as the method you use? I mean the math.
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Unread 02-17-2012, 12:28 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

hi Omnisphericus and others...I've been quite concerned about my longevity. I found 38-42 for myself. Depending On Mercury's situation, it can change. Can I ask you guys to analyze my longevity. I know many people don't like to do that but I've already done it for myself. I found my ascendant as hyleg and Mars as alcocoden. What do you guys think?
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Unread 02-17-2012, 06:08 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Culpeper View Post
Omnisphericus:

After looking at my notes on this subject, I see that I decided on either the Part of Fortune or Part of Hyleg (asc + Moon - PreNatal Lunation) for use as hyleg in my chart. Both are close together in the first house. Mercury then has the most essential dignity, and it is in the 10th house. The greater years apply and this would be 76 years. The Sun in my chart is conjunct fixed star Scheat. I think the combination could be called anareta. Certainly not hyleg.

My chart can be found here: http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...pictureid=4321

I worked out the hyleg and alcocoden for various celebrities, politicians, ordinary people and royalty. There was a rather close correlation with the alcocoden years and the actual length of life. Empirical experimentation indicates that the hyleg can be in the eighth house. The hyleg and alcocoden need not aspect or behold each other at least for politicians and royalty.

The following two examples died violent deaths:

John F. Kennedy, 29 May 1917, 15:00, Brookline, Massachusetts. In Kennedy's chart the Sun is hyleg and in the 9th house in at 7 degrees Gemini. Mercury is alcocoden in the 8th house. Mercury is close between Jupiter and Mars. The Mercury years for a succeedant house is 48. Add the least years of Jupiter 12 and it becomes 60, and subtract the least years of Mars 15 and it becomes 45. JFK was 46 when he died.

Princess Diana of Wales, 1 July 1961, 19:45, Sandringham, England. Diana's Sun is in the 8th house at at 9 degrees Cancer. I have used it for the hyleg. The Moon has the most essential dignity and is in the 3rd house with Jupiter. The least years of the Moon are 25. Add the least years of Jupiter 12 and it becomes 37 for total years. Diana was 36 when she died.

Whole Sign Houses used.
Hi Culpeper,
Your work though out of tradition is very impressive. It seems that your method of not (necessarily) having aspect between H & A obviously works. Many of the medieval authors does not accept Sun as Hyleg in 8th, and those who are accepting it, are accepting the Sun in 8th only if in masculine sign (while Diana's Sun is in feminine sign).

Why did you eliminate the Moon as your Hyleg?
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Unread 02-17-2012, 06:19 PM
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Re: Hyleg and Alcocoden

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingTheSeas View Post
So the system could work for people who die in accidents or homicides. But we need more examples to confirm how Hyleg and Alcoccoden work.

JUPITERASC, can you please shows as the method you use? I mean the math.
Yes, JupiterAsc it would be great to give more insights on your math, I'm too a little bit confused. Because Venus IS cadent. Can you give more details of your method of calculation?
I suppose you are talking about the Right and Oblique Ascension?!
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