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  #51  
Unread 01-05-2009, 10:46 AM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

I have Neptune in the 10th house, trine to Jupiter in the 1st house.

I don't think of Neptune as a malefic, at least not in my chart, as it is well aspected.

But as always, there's always a feeling of drifting, and no real determination to accomplish things.

I've always felt a natural inclination to the arts and I know I want be a teacher, and hopefully in the long-run, a writer. I think when it comes to Neptune, it's not the direction that's not clear (or hidden) but the actual "getting there".

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  #52  
Unread 01-05-2009, 10:55 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Yes drifting and addiction can be a problem with neptune, but I suspect that the 2 problems may be one in the same.

I have some questions thought. The pluto in the sky will be transiting my neptune soon and the neptune in the sky is transiting my asc and it seems to be throwing my sense of self image into a state flux and its hard to imagine sort of who I am in the world.

What do you think these transits are doing to me? and what do you think neptune will do to my venus when it gets there?
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  #53  
Unread 01-06-2009, 01:54 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JayM
The pluto in the sky will be transiting my neptune soon and the neptune in the sky is transiting my asc and it seems to be throwing my sense of self image into a state flux and its hard to imagine sort of who I am in the world.
With both Pluto and Neptune being slow-moving, generational planets; most people under 50 have experienced this transit in the past 20 years. I had it back in 1996 when Pluto first entered Sagitarrius.

That said, it's difficult for me to exactly work out the effects as in the course of 1994/95/96 I had Pluto square Venus/Moon/Sun, conjunct Jupiter and then Neptune. And of course it goes retrograde and stationary during that time.

I had one friend who got engaged under this transit and married a couple of years later.
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  #54  
Unread 01-11-2009, 12:57 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

FWIW I was just reading a couple of days ago that Neptune dissolves Saturn.

Now to anyone who has Saturnine influences (e.g. rules-bound, materialistic, struggles with feelings, goal-oriented), a transit of Neptune is going to feel malefic.

But looking at it from the perspective of family or people they work with; they'll begin to get a person who is more able to express their love or emotion, who isn't so focused on their work or ambitions.
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  #55  
Unread 01-11-2009, 03:15 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

How you have described people with Saturninan influences is not true at all. I'm sorry but Saturnian people are not "rule-bound, materialistic, struggling with feelings or goal oriented". Perhaps struggling with feelings of inferiority, that's the closest I could think of.

I myself have a strong influence with Saturn conjunct Venus, ruler of my chart--with Libra rising. A strong Saturn denotes issues with self-esteem, karmic issues, hardship, restriction, and characteristics would be: mature, strong/clear boundaries and viewing things seriously, perhaps gloomily, things along those lines.

That being said, it is a very interesting concept you have introduced. As I have seen Neptune transits as malefic, there could possibly be a (strong natal) Saturn connection with that interpretation of the Neptune transit.

The Neptune effects on this Saturn person would be (and those people viewing her from the outside would see): depression, feeling lost, unable to make a decision, not seeing things clearly, perhaps a lowering of natural boundaries so that unstable, unreliable people unknowingly enter her life, etc..

I want to reiterate that it is my understanding (and from my experience) that Saturn does not restrict feeling, not by itself anyway, nor does it make the native materialistic or goal-oriented, and having no feeling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inside Out Orange
FWIW I was just reading a couple of days ago that Neptune dissolves Saturn.

Now to anyone who has Saturnine influences (e.g. rules-bound, materialistic, struggles with feelings, goal-oriented), a transit of Neptune is going to feel malefic.

But looking at it from the perspective of family or people they work with; they'll begin to get a person who is more able to express their love or emotion, who isn't so focused on their work or ambitions.
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  #56  
Unread 01-11-2009, 03:27 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Hi Inside Out Orange and Allie,

I think what you have both written is verrry interesting. I too have a prominent Saturn in the 1st house, and have had alot of confidence issues. I agree with what both of you said:

self-esteem, karmic issues, hardship, restriction, and characteristics would be: mature, strong/clear boundaries and viewing things seriously, perhaps gloomily, things along those lines.

and

(e.g. rules-bound, materialistic, struggles with feelings, goal-oriented),

The only thing I disagree with is the struggles with feelings bit, as Allie said. But I do think that Saturn is goal orientated, as I think this is connected to the maturity and seriousness of the planet, as well as its practical streak. It wants to know what practical difference something can make, and what will actually change. That is very similar to being goal orientated.

I can see how that is the opposite to the Neptune. Lots of people in this thread have said their Neptune gives them no sense of direction. I think this aspect of Neptune is actually a slightly negative influence on a chart. That crippling procrastination and indecisiveness, I have felt it too. I often like to sit and do nothing, in fact it is a Sunday afternoon and I am having a cup of early grey and watching the sun start to set. A part of me says 'what are you doing you have 100000 things to be doing (which I do)' and another part says 'this is nice, this is beautiful, everything else will work out.'

So which planet is good and which planet is bad? I can see them both as being good and bad, but there is this element of deceptiveness with Neptune here I'm not entirely comfortable with. It seduces me, lulls me into contemplation and inaction.

EDIT Neptune is currently on my Mars and square my Sun. But nothing in my chart gets past Pluto. So I know exactly whats going on, even if I feel I can't change it.
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  #57  
Unread 01-11-2009, 04:18 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Sundance,

I just want to point out that Saturn truly does not represent being goal-oriented and being materialistic.

So say, you're reading a chart for a man who has Saturn opposing his Sun, he most likely will have a serious, solemn or gloomy outlook but you could *not* say that he is materialistic or goal oriented just by the Saturn.

I would think a strong Mars up near the MC would reflect a goal oriented person, or Mars square Sun, for instance. And a materialistic person perhaps would have a strong 2nd house/Taurus influence. But neither is related to Saturn at all. Not in my book.
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  #58  
Unread 01-11-2009, 04:41 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

I agree that Saturn isn't intrinsically materialistic.

But I think that there is an element of practicality with Saturn. So if I was reading a chart for a man with a Sun-Saturn opposition I might read it as saying that his sun, showing his vitality, his creativity, was in conflict with his Saturn, which might seek to know what the practical value of the creativity was worth. Saturn might want to know what the Sun could build or accomplish with its creativity. The achievement need not be for materialistic purposes, but I think as Saturn wants to crystalise, it wants to formalise and make something last.

So if the sun position somehow indicated music as a talent, the Saturn opposition would give a somewhat pessimistic undertone as Saturn might ask what lessons the sun will take, what school of music, what qualifications, what the sun will do with the music (ie write some down, perform for some event, anything apart from informally playing to no particular standard, as to Saturn that would get one nowhere.) Saturn wants to calibrate, it wants to pin down the talent in a way it feels it can rely on. Just as writing down a song makes it more reliable than simply remembering it in ones head. The writing formalises it, in a tangible or comprehensible way.

And so I think as a result of that viewpoint, the sun part of the sun-Saturn complex might feel inferior, aware that there is a lack of accomplishment. There might be self-deprecation as the individual has a higher standard. So he might be asked if he has musical talent, and might say 'I play, but I'm not talented, not a grade so and so.' His confidence is blighted by being compared to a rigid and formal structure.

I hope that makes sense, I've used goal-orientated in a wide sense. Interested in your thoughts,


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  #59  
Unread 01-11-2009, 07:54 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Ok ... here's what Robert Hand had to say ...

"The difficulty of the planet's influence arises from the fact that Neptune whatever dissolves Saturn builds, such as your ego, your sense of duty and responsibility, your sense of a definite reality and everything else about the world that is definite, clear and predictable. Neptune works against all these structures.

It dissolves or threatens to dissolve your ego, so that initially you feel lost, confused or defeated. But this effect can also make you feel exhilirated and at one with the entire universe. It depends on your level of consciousness. It is safe to say that most people experience the first effect more than the second."

Also from his interpretation of Neptune in the 9th ...

"The problems that this transit creates arise because you are desperately trying to replace the ideas that the transit has invalidated with new ideas. But because of the influence of Neptune, each new idea appears as invalid as the old ones.

The way to handle this dilemma is to wait and allow yourself not to know, to give yourself permission to be ignorant ... [blah, blah, blah] ... It is only the frantic survival efforts of your ego that confuse everything".

And really that's the key. Neptune is about lack of ego. But, of course, people with ego rarely are willing to lose it. And today's world is much more ego-driven than it was in the past. Hence it's harder not to see Neptune as a malefic.
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  #60  
Unread 01-31-2009, 08:24 AM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Neptune has it's two faces, just like any other planet. It is not always a malefic-in fact I really like Neptune. I've thought of Pluto as being somewhat malefic, but I've never thought of Neptune that way. Sure, the downside is selfpity, escapism, martyrdom, addiction, mental illness, deceit, and manipulation. But, Neptune can also bring psychic ability, creativity, dreams, higher states of consciousness, shimmer, glamour, trancelike states, and all things mysterious. An afflicted Neptune in the chart could show the areas were one would need to muster the strength of mind to overcome the negative-and become a more enlightened person because of it. I'm really looking forward to Neptune going into Pisces-maybe the world will get over materialism and into spirituality.
Maybe I'm partial to Neptune because of my Pisces sun. Also, it only makes good aspects in my chart and is conjunct my part of fortune in the second house.
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  #61  
Unread 02-01-2009, 09:03 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

It is strange, that all the positive qualities of Neptune given here are what I associate with a beneficial Pluto- that ultimate healing of trauma through the realisation and acceptance of truth. I think that ego has its rightful place in the grander scheme of things- we need it in some form. That is how Neptune fools us by dissolving it, but the Zodiac responds by shifting us to Aries if we get a bit too fluid!

Maybe if the world is overly materialistic, Neptune might be beneficial but perceived as negative. However I would bypass Neptune altogether and look at Pluto for the shock therapy to get us out of any problems. As materialism is more a Taurean thing than a Virgoan thing, it would seem Pluto is the better antidote.

I think I'm partial too as I have Pluto in the 12th, so maybe I confuse Pluto and Neptune. I also have Neptune in the 2nd. And it is part of my faith that mankind needs no higher state of consciousness- that man can understand the divine through his everyday life and not isolate it into a box to be opened upon prayer or trance. To be in constant meditation whilst living actively and normally is my ideal.

There's a buddhist saying that when one first starts meditating a tree is a tree and a mountain is a mountain. And then the tree is no longer a tree and a mountain is no longer a mountain. Finally when one is finished, a tree becomes a tree again and a mountain becomes a mountain again. I guess I just think Pluto and Jupiter, Scorpio-Sagittarius-Capricorn as a pathway rule that experience.

Neptune leaves you abandoned on the mountain.
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  #62  
Unread 02-02-2009, 02:34 AM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Very interesting Sundance- I also have Pluto in the 12th and Neptune in the 2nd. Maybe I'm more partial to Neptune because it only makes beneficial aspects in my chart, and I have benefitted from her mysterious ways.

Pluto, however, makes some good aspects, but also oppositions to my Moon and Venus in the second house-and I've felt the effects of that. As I get older, I'm starting to see those hard aspects as opportunities for growth through understanding and hard work.
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  #63  
Unread 02-07-2009, 10:30 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Interesting indeed- my Neptune is also only positively aspected, and so is my Pluto, so I'm not quite sure why I feel this way about the former planet.

I only see Neptune is an aesthetic sense, and not in a spiritual one. Now while most people consider the aesthetic to be on a continuum with the divine, making Neptune a common ruler of both, I put them in different categories. So I absolutely adore tv, film, theatre, but whenever I think it verges on the spiritual I see it as Plutonian instead. So I can love certain films, like Star Wars (geeky I know) or The Departed (I started a thread on Scorcese actually called 'if he can do it'), in a Neptunian sense, but when it comes to films that touch me on a more intimate level, they tend to be of a more Plutonian nature, eg The Shawshank Redemption, although they need not be dark and gloomy, eg Ferris Beuler's Day Off. The latter touches me on a Neptunian and Plutonian level (the existentialist vibe for me being Plutonian).
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  #64  
Unread 02-12-2009, 11:00 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Neptune's still a degree away from it's opposition transits yet I'm noticing its effects. Silly little things like finding cups of tea still half-full where previously it was gone in minutes; or when I type posts atrocious spelling errors and/or poor sentence construction. Whole words missed out. I'm usually so precise ...
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  #65  
Unread 02-13-2009, 12:49 AM
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Smile Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Well I have Neptune in my 5th house so i guess it sounds like this:


Neptune in 5th-may indicate that your imaginative and spiritual potential manifests through intuitive creative self-expression, artistic talent, children or an association with one of the opposite sex. Strange, abnormal or peculiar events may be experienced in connection with your feelings, emotions, affections and sex matters. An idyllic, romantic love partner is much desired.

You have a flair for creating drama and glamour. The dating scene and other activities that fall into the "love affair" category are often approached with unrealistic expectations and when reality visits you can end up feeling disillusioned.

I try to use this potencial for my stories. so I guess with me I dont think it's malefic
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  #66  
Unread 02-22-2009, 06:52 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inside Out Orange
Neptune's still a degree away from it's opposition transits yet I'm noticing its effects. Silly little things like finding cups of tea still half-full where previously it was gone in minutes; or when I type posts atrocious spelling errors and/or poor sentence construction. Whole words missed out. I'm usually so precise ...
However beyond the lack of attention, I'm finding my blue sky thinking to be pretty good at the moment. Ideas just rolling out of my pencil like you wouldn't believe ....
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  #67  
Unread 03-01-2009, 02:29 AM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Neptune is in my eleventh house of friends.
I have a tendency to look at friends through rose-colored glasses and am often disappointed when they turn out less than wonderful.

In an abusive childhood I had imagined myself as many things, a harem dancer, a Xena, a superhero,

I am always imagining fantastical things happening in my future.

Neptune is trine my moon and music moves me so powerfully that putting on CD has the power to change my mood completely.
My imagination sometimes has me lost in friendships, thinking there is a stronger friendship than there actually is.
My Neptune is well-aspected, but it still fogs things up.
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  #68  
Unread 03-01-2009, 08:14 AM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sundance_Kid
I have never seen a chart where Neptune really manifests itself positively.

It always seems to confuse, alienate, isolate, and scandalise things. People turn to escapism, do not achieve their potential etc. Forget artistic inspiration. People who really seem talented in the arts all seem to have Jupiter, Venus or Pluto issues, and Pluto is the planet that sees the truth and touches the universal consciousness. I would think that these are the qualities of good art. Forget spiritualism. I have only seen Neptune manifest itself in pointless martyrdom and self loathing. Real spiritualism I have seen in Jupiter with its compassion, or Uranus with its humanitarianism. Spiritualism is not completely passive as Neptune seems to suggest.

So I think Neptune is a false prophet. From an age that thought it had mastered the world and science, only to be dumbfounded by Pluto and the Bomb.

Anyone with me?
It sounds like you have more of a problem with religion than Neptune.

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  #69  
Unread 03-02-2009, 03:37 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FedorFan

It sounds like you have more of a problem with religion than Neptune.
How so? I'm not sure I understand- I thought I hadn't even mentioned religion.
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  #70  
Unread 06-13-2009, 09:55 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inside Out Orange View Post
Neptune's still a degree away from it's opposition transits yet I'm noticing its effects. Silly little things like finding cups of tea still half-full where previously it was gone in minutes; or when I type posts atrocious spelling errors and/or poor sentence construction. Whole words missed out. I'm usually so precise ...
I'm beginning to really love my current transit ... I think the best thing has been that I've become a lot more go with the flow and undemanding ... there are some situations I would previously have confronted and got out of the way, but now I'm just accepting them; ignoring the less favourable parts of them, enjoying the positives and getting more out of the situations than I would have in the past. That said, it has definitely become harder to be confrontational. Also I've found myself using the carrot more than the stick in my influencing skills which has been positive ...

A couple of other side effects ... been drinking and playing the lottery more recently ... doing the crossword yesterday fitted in two obscure words that I really couldn't have told you the meaning of yet they fitted and turned out to be correct!

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  #71  
Unread 06-21-2009, 06:07 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

No, Unless peace, beauty, gentleness, the mysterious/magical, moraly qualities and harmony are malefic.

I think Neptune is the only true planet of "spirituality". Pluto can be destructive and power driven by itself, Uranus is just rebellous and anarchic without a cause. Neptune on it's own is just a gentle dreamer lying peacefully in the depts of the wide expansive ocean.

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  #72  
Unread 06-21-2009, 06:34 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Sundance_Kid View Post
I have never seen a chart where Neptune really manifests itself positively.

It always seems to confuse, alienate, isolate, and scandalise things. People turn to escapism, do not achieve their potential etc. Forget artistic inspiration. People who really seem talented in the arts all seem to have Jupiter, Venus or Pluto issues, and Pluto is the planet that sees the truth and touches the universal consciousness. I would think that these are the qualities of good art. Forget spiritualism. I have only seen Neptune manifest itself in pointless martyrdom and self loathing. Real spiritualism I have seen in Jupiter with its compassion, or Uranus with its humanitarianism. Spiritualism is not completely passive as Neptune seems to suggest.

So I think Neptune is a false prophet. From an age that thought it had mastered the world and science, only to be dumbfounded by Pluto and the Bomb.

Anyone with me?

I am with you. Completely.
My Neptune is in my 9th of education. What to tell... Music school, Printing school, Graphic design school, Social Politics University, out of number seminars I can not even remember... My current employement - nothing to do with the above education...

The only good thing about my Neptune is that squares Moon that rules my 6th of every day job so I don`t mix bussiness with feelings and I don`t see clients or partners in a ``cloudy`` picture (that would be a catastrophe - personaly and financially).

Oh, and another good thing - is in opposition with Saturn that rules my 11th and ``sits`` in my 3rd of communication so, everything in my friendships and communication is clear, stable, long living, mature and serious.

BTW, my (early - at 1st degree) AC is in Pisces and it is the only sign that COMPLETELLY I can not communicate with. I speak directly and they hear something else - they own version of reality. Makes me feel somehow strange. Like I am in another dimension.

Nothing good about Neptune. I agree.
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  #73  
Unread 06-21-2009, 06:48 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

I must with all respect disagree, there is a dark side to this planet ..I used to believe in the good neptune until in my area I studied the chart of a Mother who murdered her child she is Pisces with a Mer in Pisces the murder happened a year ago and she lied lied lied lied for 31 days without reporting her daughter missing..
Neptune I have unfortunately have learned Can be deceitful...And murky and ugly at times..
We live in a world based on duality. Black and white, good and evil,
right and wrong and light and dark. If everything was all white we
wouldn't be able to see objects. It is the contrast in life that gives
it depth.

Without sadness joy wouldn't have meaning. Without anger peace wouldn't
feel peaceful. When we celebrate the contrast, without getting stuck
in it, we deepen our connection with our spirit.

I am an amatuer photographer Pisces rising with a Yod to Neptune Photography is "Light Writing" You must have the darkness and shadows to see the light

Must add another smiley because as I posted this I notice I am now a "Senior Member"

Last edited by CarrieLee; 06-21-2009 at 06:54 PM.
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  #74  
Unread 06-21-2009, 07:46 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

With respect I disagree. There are positive sides to all the planets, even saturn which turns into a firend once you have done enough work on it and learned the lessons. Possibly neptune is like that too, one book says that the positive side of neptune is that you "live an ideal" which you believe in. I think neptune is what introduces us to spirituality, and people that are into astrology are somewhat spiritual I think.

Neptune is also your dreams, not the dreams you have while sleeping but a dream of doing something (this is in most textbook examples of neptune).

Neptune is the tarot card the hanged man. This card represent someone who is reevaluating his/her priorities. He is giving up his ego controlled goals and is being directed by his spirituality, he is not relying on his own drive, cleverness/wit, and is not trying to chear death so to speak. Neptune based on sign and house position may be how we do that. If you look at the sword cards in a tarot deck they all represent lifes conflicts and struggles, this is because the swords represent our mind, and the more we use our own cleverness/wit and ego to solve these problems the more likely we are going to attract more conflict. Again, the point here is to give this up and rely on higher power and ask for help.

The obviusly negative side of neptune is the overly idealistec side that is usually blind to reality, we only see what we want to see, what we think those ideals say could possibly happen. I know I said that living an ideal is the positive side of neptune but not so much that we are blind to reality.
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  #75  
Unread 06-21-2009, 08:02 PM
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Re: Is Neptune a Malefic?

It's funny, but people who have a negative opinion of neptune tend to have little of it in their chart or else badly aspected.

Probabaly gives a greater insight into personality types and opinions rather than the nature of neptune. Some people just don't get neptune and bash it.

Again, the opposite is true for me, I tend to appreciate it's role as I have quite alot of it in my chart with mosty good aspects.

Neptune trine Moon, Neptune conjunction Juipiter, Neptune sextile venus and neptune sextile pluto
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