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Traditional Astrology For discussions on Traditional Astrology only. (Note: Typically, traditional astrology is defined as using techniques developed prior to 1700 by astrologers from the Hellenistic, Persian, Hebrew, and Renaissance eras. In general, it relies on Ptolemaic aspects (sextile, trine, square, opposition and conjunction) though there may be some exceptions, and always excludes modern planets (Neptune, Uranus and Pluto,) as well as any asteroids. The focus is less on what would be considered modern psychological chart interpretation and more on prediction. Members who wish to explore a combination of traditional and modern ideas should feel free to start a new thread in an appropriate forum for further discussion.)


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  #76  
Unread 10-16-2019, 11:07 PM
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Re: Celibacy in traditional astrology

With the category of men known as "incels" [involuntary celebates] I have sometimes wondered why they didn't consider prostitution. I am not saying any particular celibate male carries all of the negative attributes of this group, because celebates range from Catholic priests to women in cultures where male relatives still practice so-called "honor killing" to happy adults with a low libido and no particular love interest in their lives. Some people are shut-ins or unwilling to take any kind of sexual risk that might lead to emotionally painful rejection.

Some of these would have different horoscope signatures.

I think some prostitution is immoral and some is not. It depends on the circumstances of the individual.

The OPer gives some clues on post #5 as to how he manages, but it is a sensitive subject.

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Last edited by waybread; 10-16-2019 at 11:09 PM.
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  #77  
Unread 10-16-2019, 11:57 PM
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Re: Celibacy in traditional astrology

I missed post 5, thank you waybread.

lostinstars mentions puer aeternus, and living in a fantasy life. For puer issues Mercury may show the character but one needs to look to the Moon. It is Capricorn Moon square Venus, and Saturn rising. Sometimes the childish attitude is frozen in place by growing up too soon in some ways, or by the archetype of innocence that demands an overprotection. It is difficult to imagine a relationship of any kind in which emotional needs can be negotiated or met. Perfection of the sexual partner is an impossible requirement that may have been set by the Moon. I'm oversimplifying, but you can work it out.
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  #78  
Unread 10-18-2019, 12:38 AM
AJ Astrology AJ Astrology is online now
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Re: Celibacy in traditional astrology

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
The OPer gives some clues on post #5 as to how he manages, but it is a sensitive subject.
Hi waybread,

You might want to read up on eunuchs. The practice was extant at the time some ancient astrologers were writing and that would be a case of voluntary celibacy (taken to the extreme). There are some Persians who write about it. I think Abu Mashar did.

There are chart significators for eunuchs and perhaps we should consider those as well when looking at celibacy.
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JUPITERASC (10-20-2019)
  #79  
Unread 10-18-2019, 04:57 AM
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Re: Celibacy in traditional astrology

Hmmmm.... AJ, are you sure they were all voluntary? I am thinking of the castrati singers: boys with beautiful high voices who were castrated before puberty to retain their high vocal range. Today we would consider that to be a horrible form of abuse. Apparently they were not always celibate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castrato

But of course, some celibate people are unable to have a conventional sexual relationship for physical reasons. I think it's common for elderly men or men with their prostates removed surgically to become impotent. I was once acquainted with a man who never matured sexually and looked like a 12-year old boy for most of his life, until he was able to get modern hormonal treatments. I have no idea if he had any kind of sexual relationship/s.

Then what do we consider to be a sexual relationship?

(Nobody has to answer that question!)

But probably in the medieval Islamic world, where eunuchs were more common, it made sense to look for astrological signatures.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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Unread 10-18-2019, 11:38 PM
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Re: Celibacy in traditional astrology

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Hmmmm.... AJ, are you sure they were all voluntary?
Hi waybread,

No, they weren't all voluntary. I'm aware in some civilizations they were forced, especially on certain types of servants in the household of a king or whatnot.

I was just suggesting that perhaps we might look at the chart signatures for eunuchs to shed some light on celibacy.

I agree that medical conditions, and also mental health conditions, may lead to celibacy, but I don't believe that is something you'd see in a natal chart. To see those, I think it would be best to look at profections and transits to profections.
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  #81  
Unread 10-19-2019, 05:14 AM
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Re: Celibacy in traditional astrology

It's an interesting question.

I'm thinking that the natal chart really only gives the road map, not the travels. Sexuality would typically be one of those things (like athletic ability) that varies over the life course.

Then sometimes a person seems to have a really promising nativity. But it turns out they were seriously injured as a child, so none of those promising attributes developed. I seldom look at how a transit or progression might really alter the course of the life that came after it. But probably should.
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My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world. Jack Layton, "Letter to Canadians"

I thought we went along paths--but it seems there are no paths. The going itself is the path.
C.S. Lewis, Perelandra.

Life is not about finding yourself. Life is about creating yourself. Message on a refrigerator magnet.
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