Astrologers' Community  

Go Back   Astrologers' Community > General Astrology > Natal Astrology

Natal Astrology A place to discuss yours and others' birth charts (after you post your own birth chart interpretation). Includes psychological and relocation astrology, houses, aspects, and planetary dignity and debility.


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #26  
Unread 06-05-2019, 04:40 PM
petosiris's Avatar
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,252
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Because Martin Fluegelmeyer had a car wreck at the same time that Charlene Hughes had her wisdom tooth removed does not mean there is a correlation between the two events. Astrology will have to do better than that.

There is no demonstrable causative link between earth and sky.

You are trying to meet science on its own terms, "proving" astrology. That is a losing proposition from the gitgo.
So you either believe that astrology is a subjective phenomenon like waybread, or you have no idea what you are talking about.

Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (06-05-2019)
  #27  
Unread 06-05-2019, 04:55 PM
petosiris's Avatar
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,252
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HYHOANG View Post
The title pretty much explains itself. I am no skeptic, I'm just wondering if there is any way for us to look at astrology and explain it scientifically. Just why does astrology work, and how can it influence our lives, individually and collectively? Also are there any books on this particular topic that I can read on?
Aside from physicists or biologists discovering an hitherto unknown effluence coming from the planets to our biology, there is a much more easy, accessible and productive research that can be done with statistics.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (06-05-2019)
  #28  
Unread 06-05-2019, 05:06 PM
moonkat235 moonkat235 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,378
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HYHOANG View Post
The title pretty much explains itself. I am no skeptic, I'm just wondering if there is any way for us to look at astrology and explain it scientifically. Just why does astrology work, and how can it influence our lives, individually and collectively? Also are there any books on this particular topic that I can read on?
I definitely think you can approach astrology using the scientific method, and by formulating hypotheses about certain facets of astrological concepts and ideas. It's like with any large branch of knowledge (history, medicine, language, etc.). We don't know everything, so we have to keep digging and searching and experiencing or experimenting. At least that's how I think about it.

I guess I struggle a bit when I really think about the definition of science, rather than the connotations we generally have. First thought that popped into my mind was physics and then medicine was next, but these are just aspects of 'science' rather than 'science' itself, imo. I almost want to define the term 'science' as more of an approach, like 'science' is actually the attempt to explain the universe systematically. I'm not sure I'm explaining this all that well... lol Anyway, if I think of a better way to articulate my thoughts, I'll make another post.

I think astrologers study and approach the physical and natural world through the use of observation and experimentation. I figure astrology is meant to be a system, a set of interconnecting parts working together to offer an explanation of the observable and shared reality.

(Sometimes, I think words and language in general have so many connotations that it's necessary to give some definitions so there's less room for miscommunication.)

The definitions I'm using are from google's dictionary. lol

Science: the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Scientific Method: a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

Hypothesis: a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.

System: a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network.

Last edited by moonkat235; 06-05-2019 at 05:15 PM. Reason: added a definition
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to moonkat235 For This Useful Post:
Cap (06-23-2019)
  #29  
Unread 06-05-2019, 09:34 PM
rahu rahu is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 5025 valley crest dr #135 concord ca 94521
Posts: 10,865
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loda41 View Post
Your talking about Quantum Physics. It is a legitimate question but beyond the scope of this webcite.

I agree with this.you have to reject the standard model and consider astrology within the parameters of quantum theory, if you are looking for a deductive pattern.
rahu
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to rahu For This Useful Post:
Cap (06-23-2019)
  #30  
Unread 06-05-2019, 10:02 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,272
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by moonkat235 View Post
I definitely think you can approach astrology using the scientific method, and by formulating hypotheses about certain facets of astrological concepts and ideas. It's like with any large branch of knowledge (history, medicine, language, etc.). We don't know everything, so we have to keep digging and searching and experiencing or experimenting. At least that's how I think about it.

I guess I struggle a bit when I really think about the definition of science, rather than the connotations we generally have. First thought that popped into my mind was physics and then medicine was next, but these are just aspects of 'science' rather than 'science' itself, imo. I almost want to define the term 'science' as more of an approach, like 'science' is actually the attempt to explain the universe systematically. I'm not sure I'm explaining this all that well... lol Anyway, if I think of a better way to articulate my thoughts, I'll make another post.

I think astrologers study and approach the physical and natural world through the use of observation and experimentation. I figure astrology is meant to be a system, a set of interconnecting parts working together to offer an explanation of the observable and shared reality.

(Sometimes, I think words and language in general have so many connotations that it's necessary to give some definitions so there's less room for miscommunication.)

The definitions I'm using are from google's dictionary. lol

Science: the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Scientific Method: a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

Hypothesis: a supposition or proposed explanation made on the basis of limited evidence as a starting point for further investigation.

System: a set of things working together as parts of a mechanism or an interconnecting network.
Middle English (denoting knowledge): from Old French, from Latin scientia
from scire ‘know’.

In 1834, Cambridge University historian and philosopher of science
William Whewell coined the term "scientist"
to replace such terms as "cultivators of science."

science (n.)mid-14c. "what is known, knowledge (of something) acquired by study; information;"
also
"assurance of knowledge, certitude, certainty,"
from Old French science "knowledge, learning, application; corpus of human knowledge"

(12c.), from Latin scientia "knowledge, a knowing; expertness,"
from sciens (genitive scientis) "intelligent, skilled," present participle of scire "to know,"
probably originally "to separate one thing from another, to distinguish,"
related to scindere "to cut, divide," from PIE root *skei- "to cut, split"
(source also of Greek skhizein "to split, rend, cleave,"
Gothic skaidan, Old English sceadan "to divide, separate").

From late 14c. in English as "book-learning,"
also
"a particular branch of knowledge or of learning;"
also
"skillfulness, cleverness; craftiness."

From c. 1400 as "experiential knowledge;"
also
"a skill, handicraft; a trade."

From late 14c. as "collective human knowledge"
(especially that gained by systematic observation, experiment, and reasoning).

Modern (restricted) sense of
"body of regular or methodical observations or propositions
concerning a particular subject or speculation"
is attested from 1725; in 17c.-18c.
this concept commonly was called philosophy.

Sense of "non-arts studies" is attested from 1670s.
Science, since people must do it, is a socially embedded activity.
It progresses by hunch, vision, and intuition.
Much of its change through time does not record a closer approach to absolute truth
but the alteration of cultural contexts that influence it so strongly.
Facts are not pure and unsullied bits of information;
culture also influences what we see and how we see it.
Theories, moreover, are not inexorable inductions from facts.
The most creative theories are often imaginative visions imposed upon facts;
the source of imagination is also strongly cultural.
Stephen Jay Gould introduction to "The Mismeasure of Man," 1981
In science you must not talk before you know.
In art you must not talk before you do.
In literature you must not talk before you think.
John Ruskin "The Eagle's Nest," 1872
The distinction is commonly understood as
between theoretical truth (Greek epistemē)
and
methods for effecting practical results (tekhnē)
but science sometimes is used for practical applications
and art for applications of skill.
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Unread 06-05-2019, 10:39 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Here's a true story.

I'm an old cab driver. One night in Fort Worth I was having a good night, keeping busy, making money. But there came a lull. So I parked in front of the Old South Pancake House, waiting on a call.

My mind slipped into a meditative state, and I was passively observing my thoughts as they passed by one by one like the cars on a train.

The thought came by: "Wouldn't it be cool if I got a $25 round trip?" Other thoughts followed. Two or three minutes later I got a call. It was to pick up the hotel just down the street.

As I pulled into the hotel parking lot I saw three young men running toward me.

"You're a cab driver. You know where the girls are!"

"Yes, I do. But:
1. It's late.
2. It's cold.
3. It rained a couple of hours ago and drove the girls off the street. I don't think you will find any girls tonight."

They insisted. I took them on a tour: no girls in sight. So I dropped them off at the hotel, collected my $25 fare, and went back to the Old South. Exactly the thought I had a couple of minutes before I took the call...a $25 round trip.

That is a true and objective report of what happened.

Now explain this scientifically. The same difficulty plagues proving astrology.
No takers?
What possible explanations?

Quiet mind, disengaged, no thinking going on, just observing thoughts as they hatch and march off to where ever undeveloped thoughts go. My mind was at rest, still. Quietly watching, nothing more. That was my subjective state, which occurred spontaneously and was not consciously directed, at the moment the thought "$25 round trip" came into view and sailed on.

Two or three minutes after I had noticed the thought, the call to pick up the hotel came onto my computer screen. The computer works by radio; just in case it's pertinent...I had some metallic fillings in my teeth.

The hotel was about two hundred yards from my position, on the other side of the built-up earth that carried the freeway.

Last edited by greybeard; 06-05-2019 at 11:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Unread 06-05-2019, 11:15 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,272
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Here's a true story.

I'm an old cab driver. One night in Fort Worth I was having a good night, keeping busy, making money. But there came a lull. So I parked in front of the Old South Pancake House, waiting on a call.

My mind slipped into a meditative state, and I was passively observing my thoughts as they passed by one by one like the cars on a train.

The thought came by: "Wouldn't it be cool if I got a $25 round trip?" Other thoughts followed. Two or three minutes later I got a call. It was to pick up the hotel just down the street.

As I pulled into the hotel parking lot I saw three young men running toward me.

"You're a cab driver. You know where the girls are!"

"Yes, I do. But:
1. It's late.
2. It's cold.
3. It rained a couple of hours ago and drove the girls off the street. I don't think you will find any girls tonight."

They insisted. I took them on a tour: no girls in sight. So I dropped them off at the hotel, collected my $25 fare, and went back to the Old South. Exactly the thought I had a couple of minutes before I took the call...a $25 round trip.

That is a true and objective report of what happened.

Now explain this scientifically. The same difficulty plagues proving astrology.
Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
No takers?
What possible explanations?

Quiet mind, disengaged, no thinking going on, just observing thoughts as they hatch and march off to where ever undeveloped thoughts go. My mind was at rest, still. Quietly watching, nothing more. That was my subjective state, which occurred spontaneously and was not consciously directed, at the moment the thought "$25 round trip" came into view and sailed on.
the fact that no one on this forum has provided "a scientific explanation"
does not mean there is none
i.e.
ours is an astrological AMATEUR learning forum
not "a scientific forum"
in any event

no one has as yet defined "scientific explanation"
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JUPITERASC For This Useful Post:
SunConjunctUranus (06-06-2019)
  #33  
Unread 06-05-2019, 11:27 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

The scientific method is drilled into us from very early on and we are absolutely unaware of the degree to which this influences our mode of perception and thought.

As I am easy to live with and undemanding, I would settle for "reasonable" or "logical" in lieu of "scientific".

I use "scientific method" in the loosest way here.

Last edited by greybeard; 06-05-2019 at 11:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Unread 06-06-2019, 02:22 AM
Alimal Alimal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 58
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
No takers?
What possible explanations?

Quiet mind, disengaged, no thinking going on, just observing thoughts as they hatch and march off to where ever undeveloped thoughts go. My mind was at rest, still. Quietly watching, nothing more. That was my subjective state, which occurred spontaneously and was not consciously directed, at the moment the thought "$25 round trip" came into view and sailed on.

Two or three minutes after I had noticed the thought, the call to pick up the hotel came onto my computer screen. The computer works by radio; just in case it's pertinent...I had some metallic fillings in my teeth.

The hotel was about two hundred yards from my position, on the other side of the built-up earth that carried the freeway.
I have an explanation. I think I've seen you say you're a Capricorn. I myself am a Taurus. Earth signs. Signs of rationality.

What you described in your story, I have gone through many times in my life. However, I've always explained it to myself rather as adding things up a lot of the time can predict a result, given that you deduct the variable(s). There's no signs as calculating as Earth signs. We just add things up in a rational way to get a result, based on patterns, values, variables, etc. - mathematics, geometry, et al.

You yourself explained why you thought the likeness of a road trip would be possible: Cold, late, rainy. That itself deducts the possibility of a regular trip. Your experience. Your knowledge. You knew it was a matter of a lucky strike. There came the customers. However, you also knew the road trip is about 25 bucks. So there you go, you just needed the customers, with the not so odd reason to do it. Things just added up given the signs of the time, climate and environment. Just like you can use your 'timing' sense in a casino to increase your odds. Sense of rhythm and timing can make all the difference. And you and I, as Earth signs, know this very well.

Last edited by Alimal; 06-06-2019 at 02:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Unread 06-06-2019, 04:51 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

It wasn't intuitive.

Round trips are not that common.
There is no set price for any trip. $25 is an unusually large fare, not common.

I have a sensitive and active intuitive mind and am used to watching it work. This was very different.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Unread 06-06-2019, 05:01 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

I bring up this personal experience to illustrate the difficulty in explaining how astrology works. This simple personal experience can't compare to astrology in level of complexity, yet even so I have never found a suitable explanation that does not contain mystery. And mystery is unscientific.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Unread 06-06-2019, 05:34 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Second cab story.
I pick up a man going to DFW. It turns out he is a crew leader at JPL...a real rocket scientist.
So I mention that I had read of an experiment in which two separate beams of light, travelling in opposite directions from a single source act really weird. Beam A is intercepted in its course by a mirror which makes it turn north. Companion Beam B, which is not intercepted, simultaneously turns north too.

He said he was familiar with the experiment. And then he said, with a dramatic pause..."Kinda Metaphysical, isn't it?"

And astrology is kinda metaphysical, isn't it?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Unread 06-06-2019, 05:43 AM
Alimal Alimal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 58
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
It wasn't intuitive.

Round trips are not that common.
There is no set price for any trip. $25 is an unusually large fare, not common.

I have a sensitive and active intuitive mind and am used to watching it work. This was very different.
I wanna point you to the Intuition/Deduction thesis

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/r...cism/#IntuThes


It seems to me that a round trip was due, since it appeared on your mind for a reason, not by miracle, but by deduction of the circumstances. It wasn't just a wish, but a possibility. If you were asked for a round trip at that time, how much would you expect to charge? I assume somewhere around that amount give or take, given the length of the part of town you usually drive around. Again, that's just my take on it. Doesn't seem that paranormal to my ears.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Unread 06-06-2019, 05:47 AM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
So you either believe that astrology is a subjective phenomenon like waybread, or you have no idea what you are talking about.
Petosiris, mind your manners. You are welcome to your viewpoints; there is no need for insulting behavior. That's the second time. No mas. Ya.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Unread 06-06-2019, 12:44 PM
passiflora's Avatar
passiflora passiflora is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 789
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

I have my doubts about astrology having singular physical explanations. The Moon and Sun can have demonstrable magnetic influence without that influence being sufficient explanation. If current scientists have no interest in further exploration, then we have to “make do” with available explanatory options. I don’t feel compelled to stretch to fit, personally. It would be reductive to look for a purely physics explanation for phenomena more truthfully belonging to multiple disciplines of knowledge.
The attempt to make a hard science out of psychology is arguably what diminished its unique value proposition and diminished the skill of its practitioners too.
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Unread 06-06-2019, 03:37 PM
petosiris's Avatar
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,252
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post
Petosiris, mind your manners. You are welcome to your viewpoints; there is no need for insulting behavior. That's the second time. No mas. Ya.
It's not an insult, it's a fact. Something either is or is not.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to petosiris For This Useful Post:
JUPITERASC (06-06-2019)
  #42  
Unread 06-06-2019, 04:27 PM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,272
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

The scientific method is drilled into us from very early on
and we are absolutely unaware
of the degree to which this influences our mode of perception and thought.
As I am easy to live with and undemanding,

I would settle for "reasonable" or "logical" in lieu of "scientific".

I use "scientific method" in the loosest way here
.
The OP however simply refers to "a scientific point of view"
AND NOT to a "reasonable" or "logical" point of view

obviously you are entitled to an opinion
that is from your perspective "reasonable" or "logical"
just as others are entitled to their opinion
which from their perspective is "reasonable" or "logical"

fact is you just said
and I quote

Quote:
Originally Posted by greybeard View Post

Here's a true story.

I'm an old cab driver.
and so

admittedly you are not a scientist

however
anyone is entitled to self-style as an astrologer
because no qualifications are required for western-style astrological practice


clearly therefore
if one is not a scientist
then
not unexpectedly
others who are more qualified relative to science
are entitled to challenge ones amateur opinions
in particular

ours is an AMATEUR astrological online learning forum
and not a forum populated by multitudes of experts
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Unread 06-06-2019, 05:08 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

There are some highly competent astrologers among our amateurs. And some professionals.

You are going round and round, avoiding the question. If we are going to spend the day quibbling about "scientific" or logical, about whether an amateur is entitled to a thought, then count me out.

What explains this mysterious event? "Scientific", as defined by the OP, deals with "material and physical" matters. This event was not physical-material; it was an experience on the psychological plane.

It was not "intuitive".

Last edited by greybeard; 06-06-2019 at 05:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Unread 06-06-2019, 05:38 PM
greybeard greybeard is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Rural Idaho
Posts: 3,527
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Astrology does not "work" through physical means (gamma rays, gravitation, etc.).

Will someone please explain to me how "entanglement" works?

Long and short, astrology works. I have no need to either defend or explain it, but only to learn to use it wisely.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Unread 06-06-2019, 06:14 PM
petosiris's Avatar
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,252
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Ok, you are entitled to your opinion.

But in the real world, if something is measurable, it is physical/scientific. Astrology, unlike most religious beliefs, is falsifiable.
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Unread 06-06-2019, 06:17 PM
petosiris's Avatar
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,252
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

You do not need a mechanism, you only need to show results. Every sincere practitioner tries to do that, just with not enough methodological vigour.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Unread 06-06-2019, 06:19 PM
petosiris's Avatar
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,252
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Long and short, astrology works.
You are making a falsifiable statement. You are declaring that the whole or some part of astrology is physics, which is an extraordinary claim that may or may not be correct.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Unread 06-07-2019, 01:07 AM
petosiris's Avatar
petosiris petosiris is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,252
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Denouncing astrology as unscientific is a futile endeavour and an implausible contradiction for astrologers. Its main attraction is the promise that it contains entirely new and extremely important knowledge that might be gained from its study. People just need to be less arrogant and go more humble about it, because certain favourable views upon the subject may turn out to be false, and as it was stated before, there is no available mechanism or solid enough evidence (there are a lot more things that are to be tested though). In this way it has potential to outgrow its fringe theories.

Last edited by petosiris; 06-07-2019 at 01:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Unread 06-07-2019, 10:29 AM
Therese's Avatar
Therese Therese is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bretagne, France
Posts: 246
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Denouncing astrology as unscientific is a futile endeavour and an implausible contradiction for astrologers. Its main attraction is the promise that it contains entirely new and extremely important knowledge that might be gained from its study. People just need to be less arrogant and go more humble about it, because certain favourable views upon the subject may turn out to be false, and as it was stated before, there is no available mechanism or solid enough evidence (there are a lot more things that are to be tested though). In this way it has potential to outgrow its fringe theories.
Maybe I get you wrong, but from what I have read from you so far, it seems like you take a practice humankind has been involved in for millennia, and appoint yourself to a position to decide what to keep and what to discard, based on your preferred theoretical framework, which you call "scientific".

And then there are those of us who think that we, human beings, are not in the position to form a comprehensive theory about astrology (or the universe), that we don't have an all-embracing eye or an all-encompassing mind. And we are arrogant?

There are different ways of knowing. You do not need a PhD in plant biology to be a good gardener. And some biologists cannot keep a house plant alive for more than a month, no matter that they do everything by the book (an acquaintance of mine).

Also, most scientists I know do not equate "scientific" with "true" and/or "real". They consider that the scientific approach has its scope and its limits. Some of what is true and real can be known via scientific methods, others not. For example, I know for a fact that a team member at the LHC (Large Hadron Collider) is a practicing Catholic (we went to the same university), and it doesn't cause him any problems.
__________________
Mundus Volubilis - the flowing universe
animism, divination & philosophy

Last edited by Therese; 06-07-2019 at 11:07 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Unread 06-07-2019, 11:21 AM
JUPITERASC's Avatar
JUPITERASC JUPITERASC is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 50,272
Re: Can we look at astrology from a scientific point of view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therese View Post

Maybe I get you wrong, but from what I have read from you so far,
it seems like you take a practice humankind has been involved in for millennia,
and appoint yourself for a position
to decide what to keep and what to discard,
based on your preferred theoretical framework, which you call "scientific".

The OP requests opinion on "astrology from a scientific point of view"
therfore
not unexpectedly
the responder offers their opinion

one may disagree with that opinion
however
everyone - including yourself

is entitled to a personal perspective
as to what comprises "scientific"

the fact that your opinion differs

from that of another member
does not nullify the opinion of that member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therese View Post

And then there are those of us who think that we, human beings,
are not in the position to form a comprehensive theory about astrology
(or the universe), that we don't have an all-embracing eye
or an all-encompassing mind. And we are arrogant?
and then there are those of us who have an opposite opinion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Therese View Post

There are different ways of knowing.
You do not need a PhD in plant biology to be a good gardener.
And some biologists cannot keep a house plant alive for more than a month,
no matter that they do everything by the book (an acquaintance of mine).
Quite
however "scientific knowing" is the topic of this thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therese View Post

Also, most scientists I know
there are tens of millions of "scientists"
all of whom frequently argue and oppose each others theories
no one has met with
nor debated with
all "scientists"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therese View Post

do not equate "scientific" with "true" and/or "real".
They consider
that the scientific approach has its scope and its limits.
Some of what is true and real
can be known via scientific methods, others not.
For example, I know for a fact
that a team member at the LHC (Large Hadron Collider)
is a practicing Catholic (we went to the same university),
and it doesn't cause him any problems.
clearly you personally are NOT "on the team working on the Large Hadron Collider"
instead you are a psychologist
and psychology is not "a science"
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...er/?redirect=1

furthermore
even if one went to the same university
as a practising Catholic who is working on the Large Hadron Collider
so did thousands of others

and
the practicing Catholic working on the Large Hadron Collider team
must earn a living
and
is paid for their services
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=82p-D...eature=related Hippocrates Let food be your medicine: let medicine be your food. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvz9uSK3zXo Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are Dead Tom Stoppard http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KchhSIVwMdY Every exit is an entrance to somewhere else. VETTIUS VALENS FREE http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/...s%20entire.pdf
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
astrology, point, scientific, view

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 07:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2018, AstrologyWeekly.com. Boards' structure and all posts are property of AstrologyWeekly.com and their respective creators. No part of the messages sent on these boards may be copied without their owners' explicit consent.