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  #276  
Unread 05-31-2019, 05:05 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
You actually believe that capitalist societies existed 20000 years ago?
Yes, and much, much, much longer before that.......rise/fall, rise/fall, rise/fall, rise/fall.........

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  #277  
Unread 05-31-2019, 05:10 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Tropically, that would be more like 20,000 years ago. Buried in the sands of Time and the depths of the Seas.
and buried in the rise and fall of numerous levels of past civilizations......and the devil put them there is not an answer.......
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  #278  
Unread 05-31-2019, 05:14 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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Maybe we devolved.
........my favorite post thus far!!!
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  #279  
Unread 05-31-2019, 05:23 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
I have read that Venus was Lucifer's
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  #280  
Unread 05-31-2019, 06:14 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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Yes, and much, much, much longer before that.......rise/fall, rise/fall, rise/fall, rise/fall.........
Where is the evidence for that?
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  #281  
Unread 05-31-2019, 06:16 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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Originally Posted by Opal View Post
After reading it a few times......my best guess is politicians and their clergymen......

I am now headed to your links......
Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
''But as it is, those who bastardize this science with fancy words and complicated schemes find it easy to persuade not only those who are uninitiated into this art but also those who have something to boast of and who have a great reputation. Their success in persuading comes from the fact that their wizardry and effrontery is hard to grasp. Such men do not consider errors to be setbacks and they are successful in their brazenness, since they do not have blushes as the refutation of their ignorance. Instead they strut the stage like tragic or comic characters, walking in the ways of deceit, not of truth.''

''For often (as I have said) not only have these deceptive men and their spiritual fathers falsified the times and wronged our science; I have learned this from my spiritual ancestors as well. But they do this since they wished in one moment to hear things which are in accord with their desires and are mixed <with honor>, and to be involved with impossible things by means of some wicked magic art. After they have learned from the ignorant and done with enthusiasm what they should not have done, they then enjoy praise and honors, and repay their enemies: they revile honored men, the experienced <astrologers>, on the grounds that they cannot easily make forecasts nor compose treatises in detail. They do not know that the details of each nativity are grasped only with much labor and investigation. Later thay fail in their expectations, and they not only repent and bring censure in a precarious and painful way on their own falsehoods, but they also call this science ďunrealĒ and consider its practitioners as enemies. Thus it happens that this science has been dishonored in the eyes of the public by a few men unworthy of it.'' - https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf

''Secondly, most, for the sake of gain, claim credence for another art in the name of this, and deceive the vulgar, because they are reputed to foretell many things, even those that cannot naturally be known beforehand, while to the more thoughtful they have thereby given occasion to pass equally unfavourable judgement upon the natural subjects of prophecy.'' - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...los/1A*.html#2

''One should now be able to recognize whatever good there may be in the books of the ancient Roman, Greek, and Arabian astrologers, who only received the truths of this divine science through that tradition handed down by Adam and his successors, and then left it to us devoid of an understanding of principles and spoiled by inventions, absurdities, and so much that is worthless.'' - The Morinus System of Horoscope Interpretation translated by Richard S. Baldwin. The American Federation of Astrologers, Washington, DC 1974.
I think they are talking about astrologers exclusively.
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  #282  
Unread 05-31-2019, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Where is the evidence for that?
They ruins of Troy were found amongst a (please forgive me if the number is incorrect) layers of around twenty different civilizations........there is no proof as you would like to wrap it up in......but 20 civilizations deep....... in one location.......that doesnít happen in 20,000 years...........we have cities that have been in existence for over two thousand years.......

We find ruins that truly canít be dated......we guess.....and say we know......but we donít........

That is just one example........we all know of more
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  #283  
Unread 05-31-2019, 07:52 AM
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I think they are talking about astrologers exclusively.
I will read it again, but goodnight for now Petosiris
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  #284  
Unread 06-02-2019, 05:59 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

Hi Petosiris.......Some of this is of astrologers, but I do see other power people in some of it. There is a crossover. Politicians, clergy and astrologers were working together.....as is done now.....can it be proved? or can it just be assumed that all governments have astrologers staffed, as they do clergy.........are they not brothers? I have read of many astrologers that were stressed at the thought of giving a reading for which they could lose their life......

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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
''But as it is, those who bastardize this science with fancy words and complicated schemes find it easy to persuade not only those who are uninitiated into this art but also those who have something to boast of and who have a great reputation. Their success in persuading comes from the fact that their wizardry and effrontery is hard to grasp. Such men do not consider errors to be setbacks and they are successful in their brazenness, since they do not have blushes as the refutation of their ignorance. Instead they strut the stage like tragic or comic characters, walking in the ways of deceit, not of truth.''

''For often (as I have said) not only have these deceptive men and their spiritual fathers falsified the times and wronged our science; I have learned this from my spiritual ancestors as well. But they do this since they wished in one moment to hear things which are in accord with their desires and are mixed <with honor>, and to be involved with impossible things by means of some wicked magic art. After they have learned from the ignorant and done with enthusiasm what they should not have done, they then enjoy praise and honors, and repay their enemies: they revile honored men, the experienced <astrologers>, on the grounds that they cannot easily make forecasts nor compose treatises in detail. They do not know that the details of each nativity are grasped only with much labor and investigation. Later thay fail in their expectations, and they not only repent and bring censure in a precarious and painful way on their own falsehoods, but they also call this science “unreal” and consider its practitioners as enemies. Thus it happens that this science has been dishonored in the eyes of the public by a few men unworthy of it.'' - https://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt...s%20entire.pdf

''Secondly, most, for the sake of gain, claim credence for another art in the name of this, and deceive the vulgar, because they are reputed to foretell many things, even those that cannot naturally be known beforehand, while to the more thoughtful they have thereby given occasion to pass equally unfavourable judgement upon the natural subjects of prophecy.'' - http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...los/1A*.html#2

''One should now be able to recognize whatever good there may be in the books of the ancient Roman, Greek, and Arabian astrologers, who only received the truths of this divine science through that tradition handed down by Adam and his successors, and then left it to us devoid of an understanding of principles and spoiled by inventions, absurdities, and so much that is worthless.'' - The Morinus System of Horoscope Interpretation translated by Richard S. Baldwin. The American Federation of Astrologers, Washington, DC 1974.

Last edited by Opal; 06-02-2019 at 07:03 AM. Reason: typo.....man was supposed to be many
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  #285  
Unread 06-02-2019, 06:14 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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They ruins of Troy were found amongst a (please forgive me if the number is incorrect) layers of around twenty different civilizations........there is no proof as you would like to wrap it up in......but 20 civilizations deep....... in one location.......that doesnít happen in 20,000 years...........we have cities that have been in existence for over two thousand years.......

We find ruins that truly canít be dated......we guess.....and say we know......but we donít........

That is just one example........we all know of more
25,920 - a full cycle of the ages
2,160 - a cycle of one sign of the set of ages
6,480 - a set of three signs....the amount of years allotted to the destruction of earthly build up by either, fire, earth, flood or man.....each in its turn.......time after time

It is hard for us to go back in history to prove things of this nature......with the systematic destruction regularly happening, we have to rely on past mythology........and the names that the myths had of the language of the time.......If man has been here on Earth for 1,000,000 years that would be 38 times that we have had a full set of the ages.........with 152 separate destructions worldwide of our past civilizations.........

We can not prove that which cannot be traced.......we just have past regional myths.....that seem to correlate the same things to the same entities........
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  #286  
Unread 06-02-2019, 06:36 AM
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Smile Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

We've got historical records for the last 4 of the tropical Ages which fit the timeline of Western historians very neatly. Each of these Ages has a representative culture which describes it best. The median ("Mean") tropical Age parameters are 1750 years per Age, 400 years shorter than the 2150 year sidereal Ages.
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  #287  
Unread 06-02-2019, 06:50 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
We've got historical records for the last 4 of the tropical Ages which fit the timeline of Western historians very neatly. Each of these Ages has a representative culture which describes it best. The median ("Mean") tropical Age parameters are 1750 years per Age, 400 years shorter than the 2150 year sidereal Ages.
1750= 13 = 4

It adds up to four.....all of the larger precession numbers add up to nine....number nine....number nine.....

25,920 = 18 = 9
2,160 = 9
360 = 9
72 = 9

If they don't add up to nine.......I don't see it working.....
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  #288  
Unread 06-02-2019, 07:02 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

I don't think the numbers of precession are negotiable.......they are the numbers of precession......
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  #289  
Unread 06-02-2019, 07:03 AM
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Smile Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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Originally Posted by Opal View Post
1750= 13 = 4

It adds up to four.....all of the larger precession numbers add up to nine....number nine....number nine.....

25,920 = 18 = 9
2,160 = 9
360 = 9
72 = 9

If they don't add up to nine.......I don't see it working.....
I could easily round up to 1800 years per Age with the same results. In fact, some of the more recent astronomical values suggest I should.
2160 is rounded up from the current 2150 years per sidereal Age.

Last edited by david starling; 06-02-2019 at 07:08 AM.
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  #290  
Unread 06-02-2019, 07:09 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
I could round up to 1800 years per Age with the same results. In fact, some of the more recent astronomical values suggest I should.
2160 is rounded up from the current 2150 years per sidereal Age.
My problem is the numbers.....we were gifted the numbers of precession, I don't care what system a person chooses to prove their point, but if the numbers of precession aren't there......it just blows the whole theory for me.......we can't change the numbers......
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  #291  
Unread 06-02-2019, 07:10 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

25,920
2,160
360
72
30
12
6
5

These are the gifted numbers
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  #292  
Unread 06-02-2019, 07:31 AM
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Smile Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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Originally Posted by Opal View Post
My problem is the numbers.....we were gifted the numbers of precession, I don't care what system a person chooses to prove their point, but if the numbers of precession aren't there......it just blows the whole theory for me.......we can't change the numbers......
You're imposing numerology on the astronomy. The astronomical length of the current sidereal Age is 2148 years--71.6 years per degree of Precession. 2160 is considered "the best ancient approximation".
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  #293  
Unread 06-02-2019, 07:46 AM
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Smile Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

The tropical Age of the 9th tropical Sign, Sagittarius, exalted the number 9. It also exalted the "perfect circle" and sphere as the perfect geometrical forms. So, when Kepler discovered through astronomical measurements that the planetary orbits were elliptical, which to him meant imperfect shapes, he was crushed. To him, it meant losing the "Music of the Spheres" concept, which is what had attracted him to astrology in the beginning.
Should we declare the elliptical orbit theory invalid, in order to retain the "perfection" of the Heavens?
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  #294  
Unread 06-02-2019, 08:44 AM
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Smile Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

If you can't see this as an Age of 10th tropical Sign Capricorn transitioning into an Age of the 11th tropical Sign Aquarius, that's fine. But, it's so obvious to me, personally, as well as the previous Age being tropical 9th Sagittarius, I really can't see it any other way.
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  #295  
Unread 06-02-2019, 09:39 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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Hi Petosiris.......Some of this is of astrologers, but I do see other power people in some of it. There is a crossover. Politicians, clergy and astrologers were working together.....as is done now.....can it be proved? or can it just be assumed that all governments have astrologers staffed, as they do clergy.........are they not brothers? I have read of many astrologers that were stressed at the thought of giving a reading for which they could lose their life......
Jesus Christ.
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  #296  
Unread 06-02-2019, 09:41 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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It's really nice to see the forming of an illogical discussion in this thread
And another time. Keep in mind that you can create your own thread on the Ages guys.
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  #297  
Unread 06-02-2019, 09:45 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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Opal, since you're able to relate to the sidereal Ages, provided they're rounded off to fit the 9s ideal, how do you determine the starting dates? At this point, I'm happy to see any interest or belief in the Age concept itself, sidereal or tropical!
The thread is not an amusement park, go away.
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  #298  
Unread 06-02-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
And another time. Keep in mind that you can create your own thread on the Ages guys.
It's erroneous and illogical to have Precessional-motion transits on the erroneous/illogical list!
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  #299  
Unread 06-02-2019, 09:54 AM
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Re: List of Erroneous, Illogical and Fictitious Systems in Astrology

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It's erroneous and illogical to have Precessional-motion transits on the erroneous/illogical list!
Which point are you referring to?
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  #300  
Unread 06-02-2019, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Which point are you referring to?
Siderally, the V.P.
Tropically, the Point of Earth's Perihelion.
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