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  #26  
Unread 02-16-2019, 12:28 PM
UnluckyGirl UnluckyGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
I'm one point above being legally mentally retarded. Here's my chart for reference
I'm very interested to know how Mercury opposite Neptune and Uranus both by one degree work out for you?
Unlike the guy mentioned above who has Mercury in Cap conjuncting Jupiter and Neptune where Neptune as the slower planet has the "power" and Jupiter serves to magnify it, here we have two equally powerful planets by aspect and orbs too!

I see that Jupiter and Pluto make helpful aspects to your Mercury.
Jupiter may act as magnifying whatever (positive or negative) is already there.

However Uranus and Pluto are very positive when it comes to Mercury.

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  #27  
Unread 02-16-2019, 02:53 PM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by UnluckyGirl View Post
I'm very interested to know how Mercury opposite Neptune and Uranus both by one degree work out for you?
Unlike the guy mentioned above who has Mercury in Cap conjuncting Jupiter and Neptune where Neptune as the slower planet has the "power" and Jupiter serves to magnify it, here we have two equally powerful planets by aspect and orbs too!

I see that Jupiter and Pluto make helpful aspects to your Mercury.
Jupiter may act as magnifying whatever (positive or negative) is already there.

However Uranus and Pluto are very positive when it comes to Mercury.
Actually, Jupiter doesn't aspect, but that Neptune-Uranus conjunct closely opposing my Mercury is a trip. My mind's an insane place. I find there are no boundaries for me as to what could be possible or what is and I can see how Uranus and Neptune might both play their part there. My mind doesn't register things in logic or rationality. I can work with them, but they bore me and I find them to not get to the core truths. Instead my mind's a lot more intuitive and it works in symbolism and metaphor, an unseen realm I call 'the wordless'. Very much attuned to what could be created on a physical level as well and I'm very experimental with what I do as well as what I think, always finding new ways to do things and look at things. I can be the type to disregard what some of history's great thinkers have said and even disregard science as a whole, so there's some ego I think might come from Uranus. Dreamer, idealistic. I'm not able to live life the way I'm 'supposed to' and at this point I refuse to. Mental rebellion, despising all that might cage my thoughts in, breaking the bars, destroying the box, box doesn't exist

There literally are no boundaries which also means thoughts can get chilling and scary, but inspiration and Eureka moments come quite easily

But it can be tough to rein things in and sometimes I can't keep up with my mind or I'm scattered. Things come out automatically and they may not even seem to make sense. Intuitive leaps that don't make sense to anyone but myself. Mind goes back and forth and in every direction at once and then folds back into itself. There's a storm, then there's the calm, then the storm comes again. Easily stimulated to the point it actually gets overwhelming
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  #28  
Unread 02-16-2019, 09:41 PM
UnluckyGirl UnluckyGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
My mind doesn't register things in logic or rationality. I can work with them, but they bore me and I find them to not get to the core truths. Instead my mind's a lot more intuitive and it works in symbolism and metaphor, an unseen realm I call 'the wordless'. Very much attuned to what could be created on a physical level as well and I'm very experimental with what I do as well as what I think, always finding new ways to do things and look at things. I can be the type to disregard what some of history's great thinkers have said and even disregard science as a whole, so there's some ego I think might come from Uranus. Dreamer, idealistic. I'm not able to live life the way I'm 'supposed to' and at this point I refuse to. Mental rebellion, despising all that might cage my thoughts in, breaking the bars, destroying the box, box doesn't exist

There literally are no boundaries which also means thoughts can get chilling and scary, but inspiration and Eureka moments come quite easily

But it can be tough to rein things in and sometimes I can't keep up with my mind or I'm scattered. Things come out automatically and they may not even seem to make sense. Intuitive leaps that don't make sense to anyone but myself. Mind goes back and forth and in every direction at once and then folds back into itself. There's a storm, then there's the calm, then the storm comes again. Easily stimulated to the point it actually gets overwhelming
So you actually have both Uranus and Neptune affecting your Mercury equally according to your description.

Have you been able to take advantage of your Eureka! moments? That's the most important thing actually.

Neptune can give artistic talents but they are useless more often than not because there is a failure in taking advantage of these talents. For example the native may not know how to develop/use them, how to transform the spiritual/artistic magic inside him/her into something tangible.

You seem far from being retarded to me. Actually your mind seems to run at a high speed which is the opposite of being retarded. The only danger I see both from your description and you natal chart is your mind geting lost into another imaginary world or confused by what's real and what is not. I'm highly Neptunian myself and what you describe is escapism. Need to escape reality because is boring/not as perfect as you would like.

Literally everything you said is a perfect description of a Neptunian and/or Uranian Mercury.
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  #29  
Unread 02-16-2019, 09:58 PM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

I find this discussion about hard Mercury-Neptune aspects very intriguing but also somewhat confusing since it doesn't match my personal experience. My Mercury-Neptune opposition is the closest major aspect between planets in my chart, with an orb of just 23 minutes.

I do have a tendency to absorb people I'm around a lot... adopting their mannerisms, habits, speach patterns, moods and so on. But I've always blamed that more on my 12th house Moon trine 3rd house Neptune. I don't tend to absorb ideas or opinions in the same way. I'm usually sceptical towards any new idea and don't make up my mind until I've done my research and examined some different viewpoints. I'm not the sort to take anyones word on something and adopt it as my own. But perhaps that can be blamed on Pluto in Scorpio making a very close trine to my Mercury (and also a sextile to Neptune)... perhaps that aspects makes me more prone to think for myself, makes my mind more independent. That is a possibility... But overall I've never experienced my Mercury-Neptune opposition as anything negative. It might make me a bit ditzy or scatterbrained at times, but otherwise it just adds a flavor of imagination and intuition to my thinking. And some escapist tendencies... but reading is not really a vice for a librarian.

Last edited by Domna; 02-16-2019 at 10:01 PM.
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  #30  
Unread 02-17-2019, 12:44 AM
UnluckyGirl UnluckyGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Domna View Post
I find this discussion about hard Mercury-Neptune aspects very intriguing but also somewhat confusing since it doesn't match my personal experience. My Mercury-Neptune opposition is the closest major aspect between planets in my chart, with an orb of just 23 minutes.

I do have a tendency to absorb people I'm around a lot... adopting their mannerisms, habits, speach patterns, moods and so on. But I've always blamed that more on my 12th house Moon trine 3rd house Neptune. I don't tend to absorb ideas or opinions in the same way. I'm usually sceptical towards any new idea and don't make up my mind until I've done my research and examined some different viewpoints. I'm not the sort to take anyones word on something and adopt it as my own. But perhaps that can be blamed on Pluto in Scorpio making a very close trine to my Mercury (and also a sextile to Neptune)... perhaps that aspects makes me more prone to think for myself, makes my mind more independent. That is a possibility... But overall I've never experienced my Mercury-Neptune opposition as anything negative. It might make me a bit ditzy or scatterbrained at times, but otherwise it just adds a flavor of imagination and intuition to my thinking. And some escapist tendencies... but reading is not really a vice for a librarian.
Hmmm
I have Neptune in 7th H (conjunct DSC exact)
Neptune is opposing my Cancer Sun which is in 12th H

My Moon (the ruler of my chart) is in Pisces without any major aspect other than a trine to my Sun.

And I'm not like that even though I have so much Neptunian energy.
(however Neptune conjuncts my matal Uranus so..)

My aunt and mother have no Neptune at all except of Mercury-Neptune hard aspects and they are exactly like that.

Pluto definately gives you an advantage.
Makes you think deeply, also you being suspicious of new ideas etc is due to Mercury-Pluto.

What is Uranus doing in your chart?
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  #31  
Unread 02-17-2019, 10:44 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by UnluckyGirl View Post
Hmmm
I have Neptune in 7th H (conjunct DSC exact)
Neptune is opposing my Cancer Sun which is in 12th H

My Moon (the ruler of my chart) is in Pisces without any major aspect other than a trine to my Sun.

And I'm not like that even though I have so much Neptunian energy.
(however Neptune conjuncts my matal Uranus so..)

My aunt and mother have no Neptune at all except of Mercury-Neptune hard aspects and they are exactly like that.

Pluto definately gives you an advantage.
Makes you think deeply, also you being suspicious of new ideas etc is due to Mercury-Pluto.

What is Uranus doing in your chart?
Neptune is maybe the second or third most influential planet in my chart. Mercury dominates for me (Gemini Sun, 3rd house stellium, lots of Mercury aspects), and Venus is my chart ruler... but Neptune makes a lot of aspects too.

Uranus is in Sagittarius in the 3rd house, loosely conjunct Saturn and trine Jupiter in Aries 7th. Otherwise it does nothing. It's probably the least aspected planet in my chart. By declination it is more active, being out-of-bounds and parallel to the IC, as well as counter-parallel Mars and Sun. It doesn't touch my Neptune at all, or Mercury, but by declination it touches the same areas as those two planets... IC/MC and Mars. Not sure yet how much weight to give to parallels/counter-parallels though, I need to do some more research on it.
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  #32  
Unread 02-18-2019, 03:06 AM
Evolving717223 Evolving717223 is offline
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

Mercury is the planet that rules our mind, intelligence, and rational thinking in general. From what I've observed, a mercury that is dominated by water and/or fire is on the dumber side of raw mental intelligence, as water and fire are the two elements that are opposite earth and air, earth and air are the two elements that are less about emotion and more about the mind and logic, which means water and fire are more about emotions and feeling.

So any mercury like that would be indicative of low intelligence. Houses and the signs the houses are in wont actually be what directly gives you what your planet's energies as a whole are, so they wont actually effect your intelligence anyway. For example, someone with a mercury dominated by water and/or fire will be someone whose rational thinking (mercury) will be overall poor and weak. The houses (the areas of life) are just there for our planets to be in, they don't actually effect your planets expressions themselves.

Other than that, there is nothing that would indicate low intelligence. Since mercury is the only planet that dictates intelligence and rational thinking. Moon (our emotions) don't actually dictate our rational thinking, they just dictate our irrational thinking which triggers our gut feelings and our intuition, in other words, the moon is our feelings. The sign our moon is in is our way of expressing our feelings and is how strong we are emotionally. It is our way of feeling and is also known to be our emotional state.

Every other planet has nothing to do with the mind. Mercury and moon are the only planets that have any control over our thoughts.


BTW, I have observed many people and many charts of celebs for years now which is why I have been able to draw these conclusions. Anyways hope that helped.

Last edited by Evolving717223; 02-18-2019 at 03:16 AM.
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  #33  
Unread 02-18-2019, 05:52 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by Domna View Post
I find this discussion about hard Mercury-Neptune aspects very intriguing but also somewhat confusing since it doesn't match my personal experience. My Mercury-Neptune opposition is the closest major aspect between planets in my chart, with an orb of just 23 minutes.

I do have a tendency to absorb people I'm around a lot... adopting their mannerisms, habits, speach patterns, moods and so on. But I've always blamed that more on my 12th house Moon trine 3rd house Neptune. I don't tend to absorb ideas or opinions in the same way. I'm usually sceptical towards any new idea and don't make up my mind until I've done my research and examined some different viewpoints. I'm not the sort to take anyones word on something and adopt it as my own. But perhaps that can be blamed on Pluto in Scorpio making a very close trine to my Mercury (and also a sextile to Neptune)... perhaps that aspects makes me more prone to think for myself, makes my mind more independent. That is a possibility... But overall I've never experienced my Mercury-Neptune opposition as anything negative. It might make me a bit ditzy or scatterbrained at times, but otherwise it just adds a flavor of imagination and intuition to my thinking. And some escapist tendencies... but reading is not really a vice for a librarian.
Well, I also have Uranus forming a hard aspect so maybe that's where the separation comes in. And my Uranus and Neptune are pretty much joined at the hip being maybe 17 minutes apart so their energy is combined and it can be pretty insane. I have my Pluto forming a trine as well, but I think Mars sextiling can make the energy more hyper. Pluto's in my 3rd house so I think it can make my mind all the more obsessive



Then again, my Mercury, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are all retrograde so I think that adds to the insanity lmao
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  #34  
Unread 02-18-2019, 06:00 AM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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So you actually have both Uranus and Neptune affecting your Mercury equally according to your description.

Have you been able to take advantage of your Eureka! moments? That's the most important thing actually.

Neptune can give artistic talents but they are useless more often than not because there is a failure in taking advantage of these talents. For example the native may not know how to develop/use them, how to transform the spiritual/artistic magic inside him/her into something tangible.

You seem far from being retarded to me. Actually your mind seems to run at a high speed which is the opposite of being retarded. The only danger I see both from your description and you natal chart is your mind geting lost into another imaginary world or confused by what's real and what is not. I'm highly Neptunian myself and what you describe is escapism. Need to escape reality because is boring/not as perfect as you would like.

Literally everything you said is a perfect description of a Neptunian and/or Uranian Mercury.
Maybe I'm aided by the fact my Neptune's in Cap. It's also in my 5th house along with the Uranus which from what I've read has to do with expression and pasttimes

I must admit, I've had to deal with figuring out where the line between reality and fantasy is. My mind can easily conjure up its own reality that doesn't exactly match the status quo. I shamelessly delve into my consciousness and reject much of what the society teaches. But I've definitely had to find some grounding at the same time so I don't get carried away with what isn't true in my search for truths

Escapism has been something I've dealt with as well. It's very easy to just slip into my mind and emotions, my inner landscape and not be fully present in my body or to even abuse my body

I deal more in fringe ideas than in conventional ones and while they may not seem real to others, I believe I've found the ability in myself to know what's real and what's not in a world where society is built on lies. I try to just follow my intuition


So I suppose I'm in the boat where I may come off as mad more than dumb
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  #35  
Unread 02-18-2019, 01:05 PM
UnluckyGirl UnluckyGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Domna View Post
I find this discussion about hard Mercury-Neptune aspects very intriguing but also somewhat confusing since it doesn't match my personal experience. My Mercury-Neptune opposition is the closest major aspect between planets in my chart, with an orb of just 23 minutes.

I do have a tendency to absorb people I'm around a lot... adopting their mannerisms, habits, speach patterns, moods and so on. But I've always blamed that more on my 12th house Moon trine 3rd house Neptune. I possibility... But overall I've never experienced my Mercury-Neptune opposition as anything negative. It might make me a bit ditzy or scatterbrained at times, but otherwise it just adds a flavor of imagination and intuition to my thinking. And some escapist tendencies... but reading is not really a vice for a librarian.
Basically in this you're saying that you have all Mercury-Neptune traits we mentioned before with the only difference being that you think for yourself and go deeper when it comes to adopting opinions/thoughts you hear. Which is Pluto aspecting your Mercury in a soft aspect (suspiciousness too).

Your Neptune is also in your 3rd H.
Yet you think that the trine Neptune makes to your Moon and your Moon being in 12th H is to blame for.
Trine is a soft positive aspect and Moon in Pisces is positive because it's a water sign. Same goes for Moon in 12th H which feels nice because it's a water house.
Moon trine Neptune is a very positive aspect adding intuition.

Neptune on Mercury though is the opposite. Mercury is logic, Neptune's vagueness, confusion and passivity does no good at all when it comes to Mercury.

Maybe your Neptune-Mercury confuses you about this aspect too.
It's something I've observed with Neptune hard aspects too including myself (Neptune conjuncting DSC) Thank Uranus for conjuncting Neptune, I mean they both ruin me but at least Uranus helps a ton too.

Whatever can help Neptune or Saturn hard aspects in a chart is desperately wanted.
In your case is Pluto
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  #36  
Unread 02-18-2019, 01:33 PM
UnluckyGirl UnluckyGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
Maybe I'm aided by the fact my Neptune's in Cap. It's also in my 5th house along with the Uranus which from what I've read has to do with expression and pasttimes

I must admit, I've had to deal with figuring out where the line between reality and fantasy is. My mind can easily conjure up its own reality that doesn't exactly match the status quo. I shamelessly delve into my consciousness and reject much of what the society teaches. But I've definitely had to find some grounding at the same time so I don't get carried away with what isn't true in my search for truths

Escapism has been something I've dealt with as well. It's very easy to just slip into my mind and emotions, my inner landscape and not be fully present in my body or to even abuse my body

I deal more in fringe ideas than in conventional ones and while they may not seem real to others, I believe I've found the ability in myself to know what's real and what's not in a world where society is built on lies. I try to just follow my intuition
So I suppose I'm in the boat where I may come off as mad more than dumb
Neptune in Cap is better than Neptune in Sag but it's like that for the whole Cap Neptune generation.

However Uranus conjuncting Netune is a huge plus. They both ruin you in similar ways liie making you an escapist, however Uranus adds originality and uniqueness which is opposite to what Neptune does.

It's good that Neptune is in your 5th H when it comes to creativity at least (for love they say it's better to go with your 7th H.. I have Neptune in my 7th H so for me it's better to go with my 5th H but I'm going always for the perfect mix if both of them anyway lol).

I'll say it again you don't look stupid/retarted maybe a mental escapist.
If you find the way to make a reality the things you are thinking/visualising then it's a blessing (unless they are nasty things). That's always my worry whenever Neptune is involved. It gives creative/artistic talents but it's like it sabotages itself by its passivity and inabillity to transform it into something practical. So Neptune's otherwordly talents end up being wasted with the native having this "magic" inside him but doesn't know how to share it with the world.

I think you know more or less how Netune and Uranus work in your case since whatever you're saying indicates their energy on your Mercury.
I have both when it comes to relationships and others and I feel them both too.
Thwmey both suck but I'm thankful for Uranus in there at the same time.
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  #37  
Unread 02-18-2019, 02:36 PM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Basically in this you're saying that you have all Mercury-Neptune traits we mentioned before with the only difference being that you think for yourself and go deeper when it comes to adopting opinions/thoughts you hear. Which is Pluto aspecting your Mercury in a soft aspect (suspiciousness too).

Your Neptune is also in your 3rd H.
Yet you think that the trine Neptune makes to your Moon and your Moon being in 12th H is to blame for.
Trine is a soft positive aspect and Moon in Pisces is positive because it's a water sign. Same goes for Moon in 12th H which feels nice because it's a water house.
Moon trine Neptune is a very positive aspect adding intuition.

Neptune on Mercury though is the opposite. Mercury is logic, Neptune's vagueness, confusion and passivity does no good at all when it comes to Mercury.

Maybe your Neptune-Mercury confuses you about this aspect too.
It's something I've observed with Neptune hard aspects too including myself (Neptune conjuncting DSC) Thank Uranus for conjuncting Neptune, I mean they both ruin me but at least Uranus helps a ton too.

Whatever can help Neptune or Saturn hard aspects in a chart is desperately wanted.
In your case is Pluto
My experience is rather the opposite of what you write. My 12th house Virgo Moon has always been the most difficult placement in my chart. My emotional nature is very restrained, almost to the point of repression. Yet I feel very vulnerable towards other people... I absorb and feel their emotions much stronger than my own. I can't remember the last time I got angry, sad or experienced any other strong emotion that was all my own. I cry because someone else is crying and I feel their sadness, not because of my own emotions. This absorbtion of feelings, that I definitely attribute to my Moon in 12th, is why I also blame this position for my other absorbing traits as well.

My Moon aspects both Mercury and Neptune (by sextile and trine), Moon is in a house ruled by Neptune and a sign ruled by Mercury, Mercury is in a sign ruled by the Moon, Neptune is in a house ruled by Mercury... There are so many connections between them, so I'll admit that it makes for a very complicated picture and I can't rule out that the Mercury-Neptune opposition influences my tendency to assimilate other people. But yes, for the most part I put the blame on my Moon, the trine to Neptune only increasing the intuitive qualities already present. Wherever these absorbing traits come from though, Pluto is probably a helpful grounding force. Pluto not only trines Mercury, it also sextiles both Moon and Neptune.

My biggest caveat though is that I have a hard time seeing Neptune as such a negative force. My experience with Neptune is overall so overwhelmingly positive. If Neptune is confusion and passivity then that has definitely been secondary to all the positives I've gained from it, such as creativity, inspiration, imagination, intuition, compassion, artistic talent... Those Neptunian traits mesh perfectly well with my Cancer Mercury. Neptune also affords me some strong rose-colored glasses that have so far only made my life easier and helped me have a positive outlook on life.

I guess my point is that placements and aspects are what we make of them. That it is a bad placement or a hard aspect doesn't have to mean than the planet/point in question can't be a positive force. That might be my rose-colored glasses talking, but overall that has been my experience.
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  #38  
Unread 02-18-2019, 06:19 PM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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I think it's the Neptune-Mercury conjunction and probably Jupiter makes it worse by magnifying what Neptune already does to his poor Mercury.

Mercury-Neptune in hard aspect is so problemantic. It creeps me out how they do exactly what you said, incorporating whatever is said in their environment, even if they don't flaunt it they kind of treat it like it was something they always thought/believed etc.

I don't care if someone isn't curious to learn about a variety of things, isn't a good student etc. I consider that mechanical intelligent. Someone like them can acquire that kind of intelligent because of their ability to absorb whatever they hear. I know a lot of people like that, but that doesn't make someone intelligent for me, it's their logic, their ability to use their brain.
You know what I mean?

Your comment made me realise how Neptune-Mercury people have the same things going on (I don't remember if I already mentioned it but I know a lot of Mercury in Pisces and Mercury in hard aspect to Neptune). So because my cousin has the same traits but no Mercury-Neptune aspects in her chart, I checked her chart again just to see if I failed to remember any of her Sag Mercury aspects. It turns out that her Mercury is in her 12th H!


An example of an aunt of mine is when she ate with as with her one leg on the chair. My grandma was like "why do you have your leg like that?" she answered "I was always eating like that" all the family in the table (her parents have been with her her whole life) told her that she never ate like that. I then said "I'm sure someone does it, probably her boyfriend so she does it too" and then her sister told me "indeed it's her boyfriend, I've seen him eating like that".

Now that is not something huge, it can happen to anyone but the fact that she does that with everything (she will change everything according to her environment) and she thinks she was always like that. She isn't even aware of how she was and her memory ***** big time.

What creeps me out is the fact that they have nothing theirs. Whatever opinion/idea/belief I hear from them I know it's someone's else.
They do like cheezy talk too. You can persuade them do whatever you want them by giving them compliments even if it's obvious to the whole world that they are fake it will work with them.
There's this cognitive function. I think smarter people can use it more efficiently. But I think it's problematic if and when dumb or low IQed people have it in their cognitive stack. Extraverted feeling is a cognitive function in which people slowly divert their thinking/ways accordingly to those people around them. INFJs, ENFJs, ISFJs have this in their cognitive stack. It's not really a sign of being dumb. But it's more so a way they adopt to their environment. In my opinion it's a very neptunian trait. But I feel like you don't have to have neptune to your mercury to have this trait nor do you have to be dumb but I think it's emphasized or manifested in a terrible way for people who are dumber/have lower IQ and definitely for those who have mercury in aspect to neptune. I don't know if you've heard of or know about jungian types, or accordingly to the latest personality inventory term; the MBTI. Some people claim it doesn't have validity, but this neuroscientist did use brain regions to create a profile for each type, and it's used in many peer-scholar articles, and colleges/universities.

I actually have mercury in aquarius, in the fifth/fourth house conjunct neptune, mars, uranus. Uranus is closer to my mercury through. Neptune and Mars are in cap, a little further away.

I'm not going to sit here and say I haven't had my share of what people would define as stupidity, especially when it comes to physical things, like driving; I'm terrible. But I've always been somewhat good in math, writing, and learning subjects I'm interested in. But kinesthetic/street intelligence does not come easy to me. I am unpractical. But I've gotten As in math courses where the average was a C in uni, and I've gotten As on reports where the average was also a C.

I'm also very neptunian looking. So I have the dumb bimbo look and I love my red lipsticks too.
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  #39  
Unread 02-18-2019, 06:20 PM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by Lykanized View Post
Maybe I'm aided by the fact my Neptune's in Cap. It's also in my 5th house along with the Uranus which from what I've read has to do with expression and pasttimes

I must admit, I've had to deal with figuring out where the line between reality and fantasy is. My mind can easily conjure up its own reality that doesn't exactly match the status quo. I shamelessly delve into my consciousness and reject much of what the society teaches. But I've definitely had to find some grounding at the same time so I don't get carried away with what isn't true in my search for truths

Escapism has been something I've dealt with as well. It's very easy to just slip into my mind and emotions, my inner landscape and not be fully present in my body or to even abuse my body

I deal more in fringe ideas than in conventional ones and while they may not seem real to others, I believe I've found the ability in myself to know what's real and what's not in a world where society is built on lies. I try to just follow my intuition


So I suppose I'm in the boat where I may come off as mad more than dumb
1. I love your profile picture
2. I've argued with you and you don't seem 'retarded' or stupid whatsoever.
3. Stop being humble, you're probably much smarter than you say you are
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Unread 02-18-2019, 06:33 PM
Evolving717223 Evolving717223 is offline
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

I think what people forget is that the moon is our emotions and our mercury is our logical, rationality through thinking from our brain.

Our emotions are not our thoughts and not our thinking, but they influence our thoughts to the point where its almost as if they are our "second mind".

We use our mercury when we come up with what we say, our emotions just influence and distract, either to inspire us or to hurt us and slow us down. They inspire us well if we have a good moon, they hurt us and slow us down and our thinking becomes negative if our moon is bad.
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Unread 02-18-2019, 07:09 PM
UnluckyGirl UnluckyGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Evolving717223 View Post
I think what people forget is that the moon is our emotions and our mercury is our logical, rationality through thinking from our brain.

Our emotions are not our thoughts and not our thinking, but they influence our thoughts to the point where its almost as if they are our "second mind".

We use our mercury when we come up with what we say, our emotions just influence and distract, either to inspire us or to hurt us and slow us down. They inspire us well if we have a good moon, they hurt us and slow us down and our thinking becomes negative if our moon is bad.
I can see your point, it feels like you're talking about emotional intelligence affecting someone's brain's intelligence. However based on so many charts I've seen from people I know (including others' views about them) when Mercury is weak the person is generally considered not smart.
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Unread 02-18-2019, 07:13 PM
Evolving717223 Evolving717223 is offline
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by UnluckyGirl View Post
I can see your point, it feels like you're talking about emotional intelligence affecting someone's brain's intelligence. However based on so many charts I've seen from people I know (including others' views about them) when Mercury is weak the person is generally considered not smart.
Well you hit the nail on the head with your interpretation of what I meant, however not sure how the fact that when mercury is weak the person isnt smart contradicts what I said.
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Unread 02-18-2019, 07:28 PM
love-thinking love-thinking is offline
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by Evolving717223 View Post
Well you hit the nail on the head with your interpretation of what I meant, however not sure how the fact that when mercury is weak the person isnt smart contradicts what I said.
Well they do say neurotic traits are negatively correlated to intelligence.
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Unread 02-18-2019, 08:06 PM
UnluckyGirl UnluckyGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Domna View Post
My experience is rather the opposite of what you write. My 12th house Virgo Moon has always been the most difficult placement in my chart. My emotional nature is very restrained, almost to the point of repression. Yet I feel very vulnerable towards other people... I absorb and feel their emotions much stronger than my own. I can't remember the last time I got angry, sad or experienced any other strong emotion that was all my own. I cry because someone else is crying and I feel their sadness, not because of my own emotions. This absorbtion of feelings, that I definitely attribute to my Moon in 12th, is why I also blame this position for my other absorbing traits as well.
You are right about this for blaming your Moon.. Sensing and absorbing others' emotions. But I think your Moon being in Virgo and the opposite house of what Virgo rules makes it even more difficult.

My Moon aspects both Mercury and Neptune (by sextile and trine), Moon is in a house ruled by Neptune and a sign ruled by Mercury, Mercury is in a sign ruled by the Moon, Neptune is in a house ruled by Mercury... There are so many connections between them, so I'll admit that it makes for a very complicated picture and I can't rule out that the Mercury-Neptune opposition influences my tendency to assimilate other people. But yes, for the most part I put the blame on my Moon, the trine to Neptune only increasing the intuitive qualities already present. Wherever these absorbing traits come from though, Pluto is probably a helpful grounding force. Pluto not only trines Mercury, it also sextiles both Moon and Neptune.

Here is the part I disagree for two reasons.
One is that I have met many Piscean in some way Moons (including myself) And they do have good intuition and absorbing their environment's moods and emotions.
However none of them has the tendency to adopt others' people ways of speaking, habits etc.

But the opposite is true for people who have no Neptunian energy at all except of their Mercury (like my mom and aunt) and they have this habit of adopting maybe unconsciously all the stuff you said.

Second reason is that it doesn't make sense to blame a trine and a sextile for giving negative results, especially when there are hard aspects/placements who are stronger than trines and sextiles. Neptune trine Moon is a beautiful asoect to have, your problem seems to be that your Moon a. is in Virgo (not of the best signs for Moon to be) and b. it is in the exact opposite house of the one that is Virgo's natural house which is the 6th H. It's natural for your Virgo Moon to feel uncomfortable in there.


My biggest caveat though is that I have a hard time seeing Neptune as such a negative force. My experience with Neptune is overall so overwhelmingly positive. If Neptune is confusion and passivity then that has definitely been secondary to all the positives I've gained from it, such as creativity, inspiration, imagination, intuition, compassion, artistic talent... Those Neptunian traits mesh perfectly well with my Cancer Mercury. Neptune also affords me some strong rose-colored glasses that have so far only made my life easier and helped me have a positive outlook on life.

It's not a bad thing seeing Neptune as a positive energy. Also the negative traits we were reffering too do not really affect the native per se unless there is confusion of what's real and what's not or bad memory, it just drives other crazy after getting to know them lol.
My friend has Cancer Mercury opposition Neptune too but a Cap Moon. I think I talked about her in my previous replies as an example. She has these traits but she was not aware of them as you are about them. It took a few of people pointing out to her. My mom innthe otherside isn't even aware of it at all even though she is a bit more than 50yo.
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Unread 02-18-2019, 08:15 PM
UnluckyGirl UnluckyGirl is offline
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Originally Posted by Evolving717223 View Post
Well you hit the nail on the head with your interpretation of what I meant, however not sure how the fact that when mercury is weak the person isnt smart contradicts what I said.
not exactly, for example the person may be intuitive and understand things but is not able to express them the right way, or their emotions could cloud/override logic when it's not appropriate. I've seen it work like this: they go with their hard even when sometimes it's obvious to a logic person that they shouldn't do something. So we could say they are kind of deluded by their emotions. This isn't always negative it depends on the circumstances.
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Unread 02-18-2019, 08:54 PM
watcherofthesouth watcherofthesouth is offline
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

I think it depends who is looking at the person and how that person "sees" you. For instance, a Mercury in Pisces (can never find keys, misplaces things), a Capricorn could find that person to be an unorganized head case. For someone else who is less grounded, they may find Mercury in Pisces to be downright brilliant. So it's hard to make a generalization in my opinion.
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Unread 02-18-2019, 09:19 PM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by UnluckyGirl View Post
Here is the part I disagree for two reasons.
One is that I have met many Piscean in some way Moons (including myself) And they do have good intuition and absorbing their environment's moods and emotions.
However none of them has the tendency to adopt others' people ways of speaking, habits etc.

But the opposite is true for people who have no Neptunian energy at all except of their Mercury (like my mom and aunt) and they have this habit of adopting maybe unconsciously all the stuff you said.

Second reason is that it doesn't make sense to blame a trine and a sextile for giving negative results, especially when there are hard aspects/placements who are stronger than trines and sextiles. Neptune trine Moon is a beautiful asoect to have, your problem seems to be that your Moon a. is in Virgo (not of the best signs for Moon to be) and b. it is in the exact opposite house of the one that is Virgo's natural house which is the 6th H. It's natural for your Virgo Moon to feel uncomfortable in there.

It's not a bad thing seeing Neptune as a positive energy. Also the negative traits we were reffering too do not really affect the native per se unless there is confusion of what's real and what's not or bad memory, it just drives other crazy after getting to know them lol.
My friend has Cancer Mercury opposition Neptune too but a Cap Moon. I think I talked about her in my previous replies as an example. She has these traits but she was not aware of them as you are about them. It took a few of people pointing out to her. My mom innthe otherside isn't even aware of it at all even though she is a bit more than 50yo.
I think our views on the 12th house are somewhat different. But then there are many different views on that house, so that's understandable. This is probably not the place to argue about houses... Suffice to say that imo it's an uncomfortable place for the Moon to be in, regardless of sign. That my Moon is in Virgo does add to the issue though, you are right about that.

I guess our main disagreement here is that I don't necessarily see the absorbtion of other peoples habits, speech and such as negative traits... So I see no reason why they couldn't be the result of the trines and sextiles. I used the word blame before, which made it sound like I perceived it as a negative trait, but that was not my meaning. I don't enjoy the absorbtion of emotions and the difficulty I have with expressing my own emotions, but those are Moon issues alone, not related to any other planet. Absorbing habits is a lot more harmless imo. If the absorbtion goes so far as to strip a person completely of their personality and ideas, then it's definitely negative. But I often find that trait to be a positive thing in my life... I carry with me little pieces of people after they are gone. I still keep some habits, expressions and gestures that my grandmother used and now that she is gone I put a huge value on those because they keep her alive and present in everyday life.

I really liked what love-thinking wrote above about extroverted feeling:

Quote:
Originally Posted by love-thinking View Post
There's this cognitive function. I think smarter people can use it more efficiently. But I think it's problematic if and when dumb or low IQed people have it in their cognitive stack. Extraverted feeling is a cognitive function in which people slowly divert their thinking/ways accordingly to those people around them. INFJs, ENFJs, ISFJs have this in their cognitive stack. It's not really a sign of being dumb. But it's more so a way they adopt to their environment. In my opinion it's a very neptunian trait.
I do identify with that an I definitely agree that this trait in itself doesn't really have anything to do with intelligence... but is probably more difficult to handle if you aren't very smart or if you have a low self-awareness. I think it's probable that the cause for it involves more than just Mercury-Neptune in hard aspect, but I don't exactly have any research to base an argument on other than my own chart sono reason to argue further about that.


((As a general aside I don't make too much of a difference between so called hard and soft aspects... Imo the soft aspects are easy flowing and passive while the hard ones are dynamic and active. Both hard and soft aspects can have positive and negative results, though a positive result is more probable with the trines and sextiles since you usually don't have to work much to reap the benefits of those. Dynamic aspects are usually more of an issue in childhood, while we are still developing. If we are aware of the traits they indicate we can usually adapt and turn them to good. It's mostly just when we are ignorant of them that they work in a negative way. That's my experience anyway...))

Last edited by Domna; 02-18-2019 at 09:41 PM.
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Unread 02-18-2019, 10:08 PM
Evolving717223 Evolving717223 is offline
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

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Originally Posted by UnluckyGirl View Post
not exactly, for example the person may be intuitive and understand things but is not able to express them the right way, or their emotions could cloud/override logic when it's not appropriate. I've seen it work like this: they go with their hard even when sometimes it's obvious to a logic person that they shouldn't do something. So we could say they are kind of deluded by their emotions. This isn't always negative it depends on the circumstances.
No. Mercury dominated by water and/or fire is less mentally strong.

They aren't deluded by their emotions, because the only way for that to happen is for their moon to be in hard aspect with their mercury, as moon is our emotions whereas mercury is our rational thinking.

Their rational thinking and way of thinking (mercury) is emotional and illogical, it is unorthodox and paradoxical, because their mercury is dominated by water and/or fire.

This is only bad for mercury and their logic is poor. There is no other way to argue it.

However if there moon is dominated by earth, air, or fire, which are all elements that grant emotional strength, this will balance things out, and they will be functioning human beings. I know that might sound cruel but thats just how it is.

Last edited by Evolving717223; 02-18-2019 at 10:12 PM.
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  #49  
Unread 02-18-2019, 10:15 PM
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Lykanized Lykanized is offline
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Logic/rationality is no means to truth anyway. More power to fire and water Mercuries
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Unread 02-18-2019, 10:27 PM
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Re: what's an indicator of low intelligence in a chart?

Not interested in taking part in another one of the 1,000,000 intelligence threads but just wanted to drop by to say that I've not seen any unintelligent nor deficiency in logic or rationality from any of the current crop of posters, and all elements of Mercury are represented. If only astrology were so black and white.

To evolving - Sam Harris, Elon Musk, Richard Dawkins and B.F Skinner have water mercuries. Ever heard of them?
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