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  #26  
Unread 03-28-2017, 01:56 PM
!4C !4C is offline
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Re: Most elevated planet

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Originally Posted by craft94 View Post
Saturn = boundaries
Pisces = lacks boundaries
To me, it's an odd combination
You nailed it. Saturn and jupiter are always at odds. Saturn in one of jupiter's signs can be very erratic, going back and fourth between the two. People will see this characteristic in you and remember you for it.


Last edited by !4C; 03-28-2017 at 07:18 PM.
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  #27  
Unread 03-28-2017, 02:08 PM
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Re: Most elevated planet

I'm interested in examples where the most elevated planet is not in the 10th house or conjunct the MC.
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  #28  
Unread 03-28-2017, 03:00 PM
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Re: Most elevated planet

CT, my wife has Mars conjunct MC within 3. Also in the 10th are Pluto and Uranus. All of this in Virgo. I will tell you this and you will find it quite interesting. 12 yrs ago we suddenly and unexpectedly found out my wife was positive for CML or leukemia. Pluto rules cancer and this is nothing but cancer of the blood. Thru a miraculous turn of events a miracle drug called "Gleevic" which was released by the FDA only 2 yrs pryor. My wife would not be here now if the FDA had not issued it's release early after 3 yrs instead of 7.
This is not the only meaning here of these placements. My wife is a seamstress and does quite a bit of custom embroidery and now (lol) heat transfer vynyl which has many applications. She does all of this on her own and yes, she does have Saturn in the 4th.
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  #29  
Unread 03-28-2017, 11:52 PM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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Originally Posted by !4C View Post
I'm interested in examples where the most elevated planet is not in the 10th house or conjunct the MC.
My most elevated planet is in the 8th.

Mars in Cap in the 8th. It conjuncts Chiron and the Moon.

Interesting that it is in the 8th, , as i am a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, by my uncle and for a few years, staring about age 5...

so I think the conjunction to Chiron and the Moon kind of says it all...It has made me very guarded and confused , especially in my teen years.

I kept the ugly secret for decades. So I felt ashamed and guilty, and as a teen, acted out erratically and sexually.

Luckily, Mars is exalted, and sextiling my Scorpio Sun. So I pulled it together, went to University and began counseling there to heal from my wounds. And began to seriously study Astrology.
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  #30  
Unread 03-29-2017, 01:23 AM
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Re: Most elevated planet

My most elevated planet is Uranus, conjunct my MC, just into the tenth.

I am definitely a Uranian type. I thought that was just because I have an angular Uranus. My lifestyle is unconventional in a number of ways. Never married, probably not having kids (though those things are more due to circumstance than to conscious choice), moved a lot from age 18 into my thirties (and may move some more), and never, ever had a stable career.

Career is really where I see it, which makes sense for a tenth house/MC planet. I need variety. I've had many jobs. I am the classic job hopper, although I tend to be very committed and dependable with the work I do. Many of my jobs have been seasonal or temporary, deliberately short term. Although, I just changed jobs again (surprise, surprise!) and this one promises so much variety, I might stick with it for a while. At least until I finish herbalism school and launch what I'm going to do with that.

I once had an (amateur) astrologer tell me, just from looking at my chart, that I would be seen as an oddball, but an oddball who gets along with people (Uranus in Libra at the MC). Definitely true, although I socialize with other such oddballs, mostly, so in that mix, I'm not so odd.
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  #31  
Unread 03-29-2017, 02:15 AM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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Originally Posted by craft94 View Post

Could an elevated Saturn make you feel "oppressed" in some way you think? Do you think it can cause/explain problems with depression?

In my opinion, yes it could.
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  #32  
Unread 03-29-2017, 02:16 AM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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Originally Posted by !4C View Post
I'm interested in examples where the most elevated planet is not in the 10th house or conjunct the MC.

My Uranus (see my earlier post) is in the 11th house, and not conjunct the MC although it is the most elevated planet in the chart.
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  #33  
Unread 03-29-2017, 02:25 AM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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Originally Posted by detectahead View Post
Dr farr, when you refer to degree of Asc and MC are you relating in terms of degrees as the decanate of the sign or something other?
And what are your factors in determining the ruler of the chart and co-ruler?
Curious,because no one can ever know enough.

No, in referring to degree of ascendant and MC I am referring to the actual rising or culminating (mid-heaven) degree: I look at these relative to any conjunction or parallel of declination they might make to planets or stars, and through stars to constellations.

Factors I use in determining rulership of the chart:
-first I consider the ruler of the ascendant; if disqualified then the planet closest (in the same sign) to the ascending degree; if disqualified then the ruler of the MC (by ruler I mean sign dispositor); if disqualified then the planet in the same sign closest to the MC degree; if disqualified then the ruler of the sign the Part of Fortune is in; if disqualified then the planet closest to the Part of Fortune (in the same sign); if disqualified then the ruler of the Sun sign; if disqualified then the planet in the same sign as the Sun and closest to it (but beyond 5 degrees of the Sun)
-after finding the Ruler of the Nativity, I use the same process to find the Co-Ruler.

What disqualifies a potential ruler or co-ruler candidate:
If the candidate planet is:
...in its Fall or
...in its Detriment or
...in a pitted degree or
...within 3 degrees conjunction with the South Node or within 1.5 degrees parallel with the South Node or
...combust the Sun (within 5 degrees of partile conjunction with the Sun)

...then the candidate planet is disqualified.
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  #34  
Unread 03-29-2017, 02:31 AM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
My most elevated planet is in the 8th.

Mars in Cap in the 8th. It conjuncts Chiron and the Moon.
Does this mars placement indicate what other people find most memorable about you?
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  #35  
Unread 03-29-2017, 04:17 AM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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Originally Posted by craft94 View Post
I'm not sure TBH.
Saturn = boundaries
Pisces = lacks boundaries
To me, it's an odd combination

I've heard that Saturn in the 10th could indicate an authoritarian father which is true in my case. My father is religious too (Pisces) and my Saturn actually conjunct a his ASC. What else does a Pisces Saturn in the 10th indicate in your opinion?
The examples that I have in mind of people that have Saturn in the 10th house could be characterized as controversial, "bad" people. Some personal examples and some more public like Hitler, Lucky Luciano, Azealia Banks and USA being seen as the international police isn't the most amenable reputation you'd want to see.

Authority issues which would have effects on any job you're employed in, Employment problems, a problem with dogmatic religion are some of the things that I'd say off the top of my head.

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Originally Posted by craft94 View Post
I don't think of myself as a very Saturnian person but it's possible I'm a lot more Saturnian than I think. It does exalt Libra after all and I can understand why

You don't know me well, but from the forum, do you see my Saturn as being strong?
I see you as mainly Mercurial with your 3rd house Mars being apparent in the way you communicate. You have both your luminaries in Venusian signs but you don't come across that way to me.

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Originally Posted by craft94 View Post
Could an elevated Saturn make you feel "oppressed" in some way you think? Do you think it can cause/explain problems with depression?
Alongside your other chart placements, it could be a contributing factor. Oppression is a Saturnine word so that could also be relevant to your life.
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  #36  
Unread 03-29-2017, 04:20 AM
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Re: Most elevated planet

I must say that I appreciate all the responses that have been given thus far. It's looking more and more as if the elevated planet is a focal point in the chart that shouldn't be ignored.
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  #37  
Unread 03-29-2017, 05:06 AM
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Re: Most elevated planet

Well...all the traditional wanderers are below the horizon in my chart.

The only things I have above the horizon at all are not "planets"...either the south node or Pluto.

South node is the most elevated of those two.

I suppose, being rather a recluse at times - at one point intending to be an ascetic yogi, being involved in the occult my whole life etc fits with Ketu. But it's hardly the only thing in my chart pointing to that...Saturn moon conjunction in the first for example being another prominent example.
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  #38  
Unread 03-29-2017, 05:16 AM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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Originally Posted by !4C View Post
Does this mars placement indicate what other people find most memorable about you?
No, I don't think so. But it is hard to say, I suppose. Because it depends upon the context of our meeting/interaction.


I have Jupiter in Taurus tightly conjunct the Ascendant. And Jupiter aspects just about every planet in my chart. [ The Mars makes very few aspects.] So I think the Jupiter is very powerful in my life.

And I think that when people meet me, and socialize with me, they see that bubbly, socially gregarious, welcoming, enthusiastic side. People see me as outgoing, expressive and optimistic.

I think that Mars/Chiron conjunction in Cap, is well hidden in the 8th.

My husband and kids do experience what they refer to as THE BOSS however, lol

Last edited by katydid; 03-29-2017 at 05:18 AM.
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  #39  
Unread 03-29-2017, 09:20 AM
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Re: Most elevated planet

I need to examine people's charts in my life to confirm the most elevated planet idea. I can't give feedback on the subject matter unless I have done extra research on it. I encountered the most elevated planet during my birth chart pattern reading. My chart's pattern is a locomative with Saturn as the leading planet in the 8th house. Saturn as the leading planet supposed to endowed me with a Saturnian character. However, since I am a virgo, I am already a perfectionist and critical. Two traits can be confused with Saturn. Saturn in the 8th leads to focus on matters of sexuality and occult.
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  #40  
Unread 03-29-2017, 09:30 AM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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Originally Posted by theV View Post
I need to examine people's charts in my life to confirm the most elevated planet idea. I can't give feedback on the subject matter unless I have done extra research on it.
I hear you loud and clear. It would do a lot of collective good if you did some more research and reported back.


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Originally Posted by theV View Post
I encountered the most elevated planet during my birth chart pattern reading. My chart's pattern is a locomative with Saturn as the leading planet in the 8th house. Saturn as the leading planet supposed to endowed me with a Saturnian character. However, since I am a virgo, I am already a perfectionist and critical. Two traits can be confused with Saturn. Saturn in the 8th leads to focus on matters of sexuality and occult.
This is the same problem I encounter with my own most elevated planet. It happens to be Pluto in the 12th conjunct both the Sun and Mercury. It is also the cutting planet in my bundle chart.

I'm ambivalent to Pluto which ironically is a perfect attitude to have with it being in the 12th house. I'm seeking Ego death and liberation from the body before my "true" death (among other things that I don't care to publicize). Just like Raw and yourself though, there are some other factors in the chart which would describe this kind of extreme form of spirituality.
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  #41  
Unread 03-29-2017, 09:38 AM
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Re: Most elevated planet

Saturn also appears strongly in my vedic reading as the ruler of my nakshatra and in my numerology as it is the ruler of my life path number 8. This leads me to believe maybe it is my leading planet and I just can't see its effects.

And yes I agree. Other factors in the birth chart could explain the effects of most elevated planet.

Since katydid has a lot info about birth charts patterns and leading planet, she could enlighten us on the subject matter.
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  #42  
Unread 03-29-2017, 04:46 PM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
The examples that I have in mind of people that have Saturn in the 10th house could be characterized as controversial, "bad" people. Some personal examples and some more public like Hitler, Lucky Luciano, Azealia Banks and USA being seen as the international police isn't the most amenable reputation you'd want to see.

Authority issues which would have effects on any job you're employed in, Employment problems, a problem with dogmatic religion are some of the things that I'd say off the top of my head.
So, an elevated Saturn makes one controversial with a bad reputation and authority issues? That makes a lot of sense, actually. Even look at my reputation on this site. It's not how I want it to be but it is what it is.
I don't think of myself as much of an authority figure though nor do I respect authority*, which I had imagined to be the case with an elevated Saturn. There are authority figures who I respect but that respect has to be earned. I could never respect someone just because they're in authority which is usually what is expected.

Sidenote: Azealia Banks has a Leo Mars in the 3rd house too. Hers is closer to the IC, and some astrologers would consider it "4th house" as a result but I can see some similarities.


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I see you as mainly Mercurial with your 3rd house Mars being apparent in the way you communicate. You have both your luminaries in Venusian signs but you don't come across that way to me.
Yeah, that's what I would imagine. An elevated Mercury would make a lot more sense. But then again it is, after all, my chart ruler.

Yeah, I'm definitely more of a "brains" person than a "beauty" person. My luminaries are both in Venusian signs but my Venus is debiliated (retrograde, detriment, 6th house), which explains why I don't come off that way. I do feel like I'm becoming a lot more Venusian as I get older, which makes sense with the North Node conjunction, and not to brag about how sexy and powerful I am or anything, but the Scorpio energy in me seems to be prominent and I think this is largely due to the double Venus rulership. Even then, however, my idea of beauty probably isn't a "conventional" one. I wouldn't call it particularly unconventional (how can I when these days the so-called unconventional is conventional?) but if you're looking for a blonde cheerleader type, don't waste your time with me.

Oh, and I will say this: that career analysis you gave me way back when was 100% spot on.

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Alongside your other chart placements, it could be a contributing factor. Oppression is a Saturnine word so that could also be relevant to your life.
I guess what I'm mainly asking is, do you think an elevated planet could represent forces from the outside rather than the inside? In the case of Saturn, this could represent oppositional forces such as authority figures and groups that want to protest how problematic you are, etc.

Last edited by craft94; 03-29-2017 at 04:53 PM.
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  #43  
Unread 03-30-2017, 12:17 AM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
No, I don't think so. But it is hard to say, I suppose. Because it depends upon the context of our meeting/interaction.


I have Jupiter in Taurus tightly conjunct the Ascendant. And Jupiter aspects just about every planet in my chart. [ The Mars makes very few aspects.] So I think the Jupiter is very powerful in my life.

And I think that when people meet me, and socialize with me, they see that bubbly, socially gregarious, welcoming, enthusiastic side. People see me as outgoing, expressive and optimistic.
It is difficult to know exactly how other people see us. I have jupiter conjunct MC. Initially, it seemed like it had no effect. If anything, I feel unlucky. Then a few people mentioned how nothing every bothers me and I'm always in good spirits. Even family members have mentioned this. It shocked me, because I don't see it that way at all. I see myself as moody and cynical. Over time I realized that my behavior is completely different when interfacing with other people. In fact, I would say that I even feel more jupiter like during those moments. At any other time I relate more to my scorpio sun. So, it seems like my most elevated planet affects my public reputation more than my career.
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  #44  
Unread 03-30-2017, 05:49 AM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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Originally Posted by craft94 View Post
Yeah, that's what I would imagine. An elevated Mercury would make a lot more sense. But then again it is, after all, my chart ruler.

Yeah, I'm definitely more of a "brains" person than a "beauty" person. My luminaries are both in Venusian signs but my Venus is debiliated (retrograde, detriment, 6th house), which explains why I don't come off that way. I do feel like I'm becoming a lot more Venusian as I get older, which makes sense with the North Node conjunction, and not to brag about how sexy and powerful I am or anything, but the Scorpio energy in me seems to be prominent and I think this is largely due to the double Venus rulership. Even then, however, my idea of beauty probably isn't a "conventional" one. I wouldn't call it particularly unconventional (how can I when these days the so-called unconventional is conventional?) but if you're looking for a blonde cheerleader type, don't waste your time with me.
Brains, that's it. Some people take longer to grow confident in their sexuality. You're by no means alone in our deplorable generation. In what ways do you identify with Scorpio? I'll rest assured that you won't be giving me any of the trite **** regarding the sign.

Now I'm wondering how I come across on the forum

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Oh, and I will say this: that career analysis you gave me way back when was 100% spot on.
I had a hunch it hit you between the eyes but you didn't give away much from your reply to me


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Originally Posted by craft94 View Post
I guess what I'm mainly asking is, do you think an elevated planet could represent forces from the outside rather than the inside? In the case of Saturn, this could represent oppositional forces such as authority figures and groups that want to protest how problematic you are, etc.
It's generally seen in traditional astrological practice that every point does not point to a person's character or psychology. Planets can definitely indicate outside forces that play upon the life. Your Saturn, not being the asc ruler, moon ruler, mercury ruler, or even temperament ruler indicates that Saturnine traits won't be important in your personal conduct.
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  #45  
Unread 03-30-2017, 04:19 PM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
It's generally seen in traditional astrological practice that every point does not point to a person's character or psychology. Planets can definitely indicate outside forces that play upon the life. Your Saturn, not being the asc ruler, moon ruler, mercury ruler, or even temperament ruler indicates that Saturnine traits won't be important in your personal conduct.
That's very interesting. Not that I don't feel intuitively like you are correct in your reasoning, but what makes you say that Saturn not having those rulerships is the cause behind it becoming externalized? Have you just experienced/seen this, or is this a concept that is actually more well-known?
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Unread 03-30-2017, 07:29 PM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Brains, that's it.
I hope you're not being sarcastic, here. If not, thanks

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
In what ways do you identify with Scorpio? I'll rest assured that you won't be giving me any of the trite **** regarding the sign.
Well, what you said about Venus & Jupiter in Scorpio in that career analysis was very spot on.

It isn't so much that I identify with it though as much as others identify me with it.

I'm very emotional, for one, and since Scorpio is a fixed sign, it takes me a real long time to get over things. I'm very obsessive and people say I'm paranoid (I don't necessarily agree) and I know it's shocking to hear but most guys do not find paranoia to be a sexy trait lol. I need to be in control (this doesn't mean I always am) and I'm generally more reserved and private than I appear on the forum; I try to be guarded but with a Gemini Rising, this doesn't always work out. On the more positive side, I want to connect deeply with others and I'm good at investigating things. I'm more "Scorpionic" about relationships and my aesthetic (I tend to like "darker" things) than any other area of life but because I've got that double Venus rulership, these things are important to me, at least internally.

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Now I'm wondering how I come across on the forum
Online, I see a lot of Jupiter in you.
Your Venus in the 1st house is very prominent too. I mean, it is the 1st house: you come across as very charming and likeable. Rumor has it a lot of the girls on this website have a crush on you (not me...for all I know you could be a 500-pound anime-obsessed lesbian living in your mother's basement... no offense... I mean, so could I...I could be a man... you never know lmao)


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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
It's generally seen in traditional astrological practice that every point does not point to a person's character or psychology. Planets can definitely indicate outside forces that play upon the life. Your Saturn, not being the asc ruler, moon ruler, mercury ruler, or even temperament ruler indicates that Saturnine traits won't be important in your personal conduct.
That makes sense.

Last edited by craft94; 03-30-2017 at 07:45 PM.
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  #47  
Unread 03-30-2017, 08:19 PM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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That's very interesting. Not that I don't feel intuitively like you are correct in your reasoning, but what makes you say that Saturn not having those rulerships is the cause behind it becoming externalized? Have you just experienced/seen this, or is this a concept that is actually more well-known?
Both. When I've focused on the asc, it's ruler, moon and it's ruler and Mercury to an extent I've been able to get a good grasp on character without any recourse to the wider horoscope. I've also noticed this in the charts of the people I know. In modern astrology practice, oppositions indicate some distancing with the planet or point that is more "remote". At one point I was in a relationship with a girl who had Mercury opp. Jupiter and Venus opp. Pluto and my chart happens to have both Jupiter and Pluto strains strong.

To the concepts bit, IIRC correctly there are a number of techniques given by different astrologers over the years which mostly gear character delineation toward a few points in the chart and not much else. Lilly's manners takes planets in the 1st house, asc ruler, or any planets that are interacting with the Moon and Mercury to get a handle on personality, Ptolemy chronicled a technique whereby focus was placed primarily on Mercury and Moon, and I think Abu Mashar also focused on the ASC, Moon and Mercury paying much attention to the modality of the points in question.

Traditionally too within the chart, the houses are seen as differentiated areas of life and any planets placed within would be descriptive of that area. While in modern it seems as though the planet signifies the subjective experience that one has regarding a particular area of life. In practice, both reasons often end up aligning.
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Unread 03-30-2017, 08:39 PM
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Re: Most elevated planet

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I hope you're not being sarcastic, here. If not, thanks
That's the succinct and normal way to put all that astro-babble, so no, I wasn't this time around.

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Well, what you said about Venus & Jupiter in Scorpio in that career analysis was very spot on.
I just reviewed that thread. I used to put so much more effort in my forum interps.

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It isn't so much that I identify with it though as much as others identify me with it.

I'm very emotional, for one, and since Scorpio is a fixed sign, it takes me a real long time to get over things. I'm very obsessive and people say I'm paranoid (I don't necessarily agree) and I know it's shocking to hear but most guys do not find paranoia to be a sexy trait lol. I need to be in control (this doesn't mean I always am) and I'm generally more reserved and private than I appear on the forum; I try to be guarded but with a Gemini Rising, this doesn't always work out. On the more positive side, I want to connect deeply with others and I'm good at investigating things. I'm more "Scorpionic" about relationships and my aesthetic (I tend to like "darker" things) than any other area of life but because I've got that double Venus rulership, these things are important to me, at least internally.
I've never found paranoia to be a sexy trait, but I must admit I get a dopamine kick anytime a women starts becoming jealous over something innocuous I said or did.

And looking at your chart again, That Taurus Moon opp. Scorpio Venus/Jupiter conjunct the SN/NN looks very packed with potent energy. No wonder you wig out all the time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by craft94 View Post
Online, I see a lot of Jupiter in you.
Your Venus in the 1st house is very prominent too. I mean, it is the 1st house: you come across as very charming and likeable. Rumor has it a lot of the girls on this website have a crush on you (not me...for all I know you could be a 500-pound anime-obsessed lesbian living in your mother's basement... no offense... I mean, so could I...I could be a man... you never know lmao)
No offense taken. Ah, so it looks like my Libra MC works well even over the webs.
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  #49  
Unread 03-31-2017, 04:00 AM
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obsidianmineral obsidianmineral is offline
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Re: Most elevated planet

The closest planet to my MC is the Sun. Does anyone else also have this? Sounds like a positive influence, so I just couldn't hold myself from bragging about it,


Of course it depends on other conditions aswell, right? I could go off on a rant, talking about how planets are actions and what is the correct way to understand them. In my life, I believe I've only somewhat experienced how Saturn, Mars and Moon actions are like. I wanna know how it's like to experience Sun-like events in one's life. Anybody kind enough to shed some light on this subject?


Now that I think about it, if the Sun is the solar system's center, and the Sun is like the heart of an animal, which regenerates and gives life to all of the organs, does that mean that both the light and the darkness that's experienced in our lives is a result of the presence of the Sun? Maybe the best thing that the Sun can bring is power and emphasis on one aspect of life, rather than actual good fortune (which would come from Jupiter). The Sun controls the light and the darkness, because in reality, all of the other planets function only because the Sun's there. The Sun is like the soul experiencing all of the good and the bad throughout its lifetime. When the Sun stops working, so does everything else. When you combine the forces of the benefics and some powerful planet, maybe you can truly say that the Sun is making your life shine. So, for me, what strikes me the most about the Sun is its importance. It's not necessarily a benefic or malefic planet. It may have a slight inclination towards being benefic, though.

Whaddyaguysthink?

Last edited by obsidianmineral; 03-31-2017 at 05:39 AM.
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Unread 03-31-2017, 04:43 AM
dr. farr dr. farr is offline
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Re: Most elevated planet

Ancients considered the Sun a neutral planet: benefic if far away from a given planet, malefic is close by a given planet (they had 2 classifications for planets near the Sun: one was called "under the sunbeams" and was considered a minor debility; the other was combust-within 8 or so degrees of the Sun-which was considered a major debility) For me, I don't consider "under the sunbeams" but I do consider combust-my orb, though, is 5 degrees.
In my delineations when a planet is combust I consider it to be absorbed by the Sun-and I use the Sun for that combust planet's position in delineation of that chart (this is not an orthodox delineative procedure, but it "works for me"...)
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