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  #51  
Unread 03-03-2017, 05:55 AM
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Smile Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by Horus View Post
We're actually in the transition period between the Ages of Pisces -not Capricorn- and Aquarius. It's retrograde through the zodiac because of the motion of precession. Just before dawn on the vernal equinox, Pisces and Aquarius can both be seen on the eastern horizon. Pisces won't be completely out of the picture til about 2700 AD?

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession

But there's a lot of different opinions as to when the Age of Aquarius is supposed to start (or has started).
Tropical Ages are real, and more influential than Sidereal Ages on the mundane level. The major reason for the differences regarding when the Sidereal Ages start is the different settings of the Sidereal Signs. Tropical Signs, on the other hand, are located precisely in an agreed-upon manner, so the starting time for the Age of TROPICAL Aquarius depends only on the astronomical calculations regarding the Anomalistic Year (the time it takes Earth's Point of Perihelion to circumnavigate the Seasons), not Precession of the Equinoxes. Mean start year for the Tropical Age of Aquarius is 2149. First Nutational year is 2034. Tropical Ages unfold with Direct motion, Sidereal Ages with Retrograde motion, so the Tropical Aquarian Age is preceded by the Tropical Age of Capricorn, and the Sidereal Aquarian Age is preceded by the Sidereal Age of Pisces.

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  #52  
Unread 03-03-2017, 06:03 AM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

While Origen (2nd/3rd century CE) mentioned that "the ancients" had calculated Astrological (or World) Ages, he did not mention how they were astrologically calculated (whether via sidereal or tropical criteria); however, with the Greco-Roman and later Arabic astrologers, World "Ages" (or long time period rulerships) were calculated exclusively using the tropical signs (rather than the sidereal constellations); see for example, Abu-Mashar's "The Thousands" (c.7th/8th century CE; also see references to this subject in al-Birunni's "Elements of Astrology" (11th century CE) and Ibn Ezra's "Beginning of Wisdom" (12th century CE)...
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  #53  
Unread 03-04-2017, 10:39 AM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

Nice to see you back dr. farr, hope you're feeling good

I got interested in this because you are discussing the astrological ages.
I think it is such a horrible reversed "development" of astrology that keeps ignoring the actual sky. To me that is like walking away from the truth and decide to do it blindfolded. That is the reason I use sidereal SSRs (I am not saying everything in sidereal astrology is right though)...and look for sources to tell me how the ancients actually observed the sky to know more about astrology.

I find this of enormous importance regarding the Aquarius age:
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I am not the only researcher who acknowledges the heliacal rising of the zodiacal constellations at the spring equinox as the astronomical framework for the ages. The archeo-astronomer Sepp Rothwangl in Considerations About the Start of the Age of Aquarius[11] claims that, in ancient times, a new constellation rising on the eastern horizon before Sunrise on the morning of the Northern Hemisphere spring equinox was the main criterion for the start of a New Age. Rothwangl also states that such a change from Pisces to Aquarius has already occurred, thus indicating the arrival of the new Age of Aquarius.
https://macroastro.wordpress.com/tag...liacal-rising/

Last edited by Arena; 03-04-2017 at 10:42 AM.
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  #54  
Unread 03-04-2017, 11:27 AM
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Smile Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by Arena View Post
Nice to see you back dr. farr, hope you're feeling good

I got interested in this because you are discussing the astrological ages.
I think it is such a horrible reversed "development" of astrology that keeps ignoring the actual sky. To me that is like walking away from the truth and decide to do it blindfolded. That is the reason I use sidereal SSRs (I am not saying everything in sidereal astrology is right though)...and look for sources to tell me how the ancients actually observed the sky to know more about astrology.

I find this of enormous importance regarding the Aquarius age:

https://macroastro.wordpress.com/tag...liacal-rising/
I was hoping someone else was aware of Terry MacKinnell's view of the Ages. I'm including his angle of view in the "Gaia's Trident" method (it's in the Mundane forum), because by centering the Trident on the Equinoctial Line used by Tropical-astrologers ala Hipparchus, the first-point of the Trident (which is "the Age of" point), is then 15 degrees in advance of where nearly everyone else has it. This is very close to MacKinnell's calculated Age-Indicator, arrived at by studying Ancient-Babylonian Astrology, and leads to the Aquarian Age beginning in the 15th Century C.E. His expectations for the Age of Aquarius are quite low, incidentally.

Last edited by david starling; 03-04-2017 at 11:58 AM.
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  #55  
Unread 03-04-2017, 10:30 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

Arena, This was most likely true for the Ages of Taurus and Aries. But around 500 BC the Babylonians switched from a constellation-based astrology to a sign-based astrology. The Hellenistic astrologers followed suit. Although both groups as well as the ancient Egyptians were very interested in heliacal risings, they certainly had additional major concerns, as the ancient star lore indicates.
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  #56  
Unread 03-05-2017, 01:18 AM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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If a Planet orbits the Sun, and no one's there who can see it, does it have an Astrological effect?
According to a very reliably Fake News source, the outer Planets DON'T really exist--they're just holograms embedded in those fancy telescopes!
LOL, I really laughed hard after reading that.

Anyway, I am not going to lecture here on the importance of traditional Astrology, but, believe me, it is not due to the non-discovery of the outer planets, that astrologers assigned dual rulership to Saturn or Mars. All planets, with the only exception of the two luminaries, the Sun and the Moon, had dual rulerships of a Diurnal, Masculine and Nocturnal, Feminine domiciles.

With Saturn it was Aquarius (Diurnal and Masculine) and Capricorn (Nocturnal and Feminine).

There is a thread somewhere on this forum by Kaiousei No Sensi with a detailed explanation on traditional rulerships.

You might also want to read up here: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=254
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  #57  
Unread 03-22-2017, 05:50 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

It's a bit odd whenever I see arguments about Saturn and Aquarius. It makes me think that nobody who argues about these thins have never studied math or physics at a deeper level than high school. It works perfectly well. Saturn sets up the boundaries of reality, and the fact is that reality is a lot stranger than most people care to admit. Saturn is perfectly at home among Aquarius and Uranus.
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  #58  
Unread 03-22-2017, 05:58 PM
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Smile Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by graay ghost View Post
It's a bit odd whenever I see arguments about Saturn and Aquarius. It makes me think that nobody who argues about these thins have never studied math or physics at a deeper level than high school. It works perfectly well. Saturn sets up the boundaries of reality, and the fact is that reality is a lot stranger than most people care to admit. Saturn is perfectly at home among Aquarius and Uranus.
Malefic Saturn RESTRICTS our ability to comprehend the true nature of Reality, with potentially disastrous consequences. Aquarius defies those restrictions. So, if Saturn is "perfectly at home" in Aquarius, it either enjoys living in a hostile environment, or the Quality of its nature changes in that Sign, and it is no longer a Malefic.

Last edited by david starling; 03-22-2017 at 06:05 PM.
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  #59  
Unread 03-22-2017, 06:25 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

I honestly think that Saturn rules Aquarius because astrologers were just like: "Well we 12 signs, and only 7 planets...uhh...let's just give Saturn to Aquarius because it's just as cold and detached as Capricorn.
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  #60  
Unread 03-22-2017, 06:27 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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I honestly think that Saturn rules Aquarius because astrologers were just like: "Well we 12 signs, and only 7 planets...uhh...let's just give Saturn to Aquarius because it's just as cold and detached as Capricorn.
Thankfully, the astrologers who devised the system thought deeper than that.
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  #61  
Unread 03-22-2017, 06:47 PM
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Smile Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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I honestly think that Saturn rules Aquarius because astrologers were just like: "Well we 12 signs, and only 7 planets...uhh...let's just give Saturn to Aquarius because it's just as cold and detached as Capricorn.
Fixed Air and Cardinal Earth are quite different qualities.
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  #62  
Unread 03-22-2017, 06:49 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Folks, it works like this.

Think about planets' distance from the sun. Read down the left-hand column and up the right-hand column for traditional planetary sign rulerships. Ptolemy (ca. 150 CE) standardized the following scheme, even if he didn't invent it:

sun= Leo................moon=Cancer (summer solstice)
Mercury=Virgo........Mercury=Gemini
Venus=Libra...........Venus=Taurus
Mars=Scorpio.........Mars=Aries
Jupiter=Sagittarius..Jupiter=Pisces
Saturn=Capricorn....Saturn=Aquarius

Basically by the time you get to the signs of Capricorn and Aquarius, Saturn has to do for two. Capricorn=the sign beginning at the winter solstice.

Note also that each planet rules one feminine, nocturnal sign (water, earth; ) and one masculine diurnal sign (air, fire.)

It really doesn't have much to do with the static personality traits that modern astrology today associates with sun-signs. The system is much older.
Note that this scheme goes back to Hellenistic astrology. It's in Ptolemy (150 CE) but we don't know where he got it from.

In traditional astrology Saturn's nature is cold and dry. The dry part esp. means that it's not fructifying, or conducive to plant life. This is where we get the idea of Saturn's limiting nature. By the time Pisces rolls around in late February, nature in the Mediterranean region really started to wake up, making warm, moist Jupiter a suitable traditional ruler.
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  #63  
Unread 03-22-2017, 07:09 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Fixed Air and Cardinal Earth are quite different qualities.
Oh really?
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  #64  
Unread 03-22-2017, 08:06 PM
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Smile Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Oh really?
I'm pretty sure the seasonal patterns of Elements and Modalities predate the "cold/dry", "warm/moist", "masculine/feminine" theories. And if so, those are what's really behind the pattern of rulership, along with the yearly sequence of Sun-signs. I've applied a "Heliocentric-cipher", with excellent results. The Heliocentric model was known to the Greek scientific-colony in Alexandria, centuries before Ptolemy.

Last edited by david starling; 03-22-2017 at 08:16 PM.
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  #65  
Unread 03-22-2017, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Malefic Saturn RESTRICTS our ability to comprehend the true nature of Reality, with potentially disastrous consequences. Aquarius defies those restrictions. So, if Saturn is "perfectly at home" in Aquarius, it either enjoys living in a hostile environment, or the Quality of its nature changes in that Sign, and it is no longer a Malefic.
Giving the contrary nature of Saturn, I would be unsurprised if it enjoyed a hostile environment. That said, I do not agree with the rest of your premise.
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  #66  
Unread 03-22-2017, 09:13 PM
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Smile Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Giving the contrary nature of Saturn, I would be unsurprised if it enjoyed a hostile environment. That said, I do not agree with the rest of your premise.
It was an either/or premise. If that's the case, why is that the "rebel", Aquarius, up against this fearsome Adversary, is usually cool and calm; whereas Capricorn, which goes along with the Saturnian restrictions, is usually cautious and apprehensive? Maybe Saturn, the "Adversary", treats the disobedient better than the obedient! Like a parent, who punishes the "good" kid, and pampers the "bad" one.

Last edited by david starling; 03-22-2017 at 09:23 PM.
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  #67  
Unread 03-22-2017, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
It was an either/or premise.

I do not agree with your initial statements on Saturn, which was not either/or.
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  #68  
Unread 03-22-2017, 09:29 PM
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Smile Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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I do not agree with your initial statements on Saturn, which was not either/or.
Then, what does your advanced knowledge of mathematics and physics tell you about the Astrological effects of Saturn? I believe the most pernicious effect is that it shuts down our "extra-sensory" perceptions, and limits our understanding of the true nature of Reality to what can be ascertained through materialistic science and odious occult practices, such as human sacrifice.

Last edited by david starling; 03-22-2017 at 09:46 PM.
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  #69  
Unread 03-22-2017, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
It was an either/or premise. If that's the case, why is that the "rebel", Aquarius, up against this fearsome Adversary, is usually cool and calm; whereas Capricorn, which goes along with the Saturnian restrictions, is usually cautious and apprehensive? Maybe Saturn, the "Adversary", treats the disobedient better than the obedient! Like a parent, who punishes the "good" kid, and pampers the "bad" one.
They're two answers to the same question of mortality.

Capricorn says I will die.

Aquarius asks, so what?

Both are good answers.
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Unread 03-22-2017, 09:50 PM
david starling david starling is online now
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Smile Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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They're two answers to the same question of mortality.

Capricorn says I will die.

Aquarius asks, so what?

Both are good answers.
Aquarius says, there's no such thing as death. Just as Scorpio says, I will overcome death. Pisces says, yeah, there's no such thing, but it's a very painful illusion.

Last edited by david starling; 03-22-2017 at 10:22 PM.
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  #71  
Unread 03-23-2017, 03:24 AM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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The point isn't to not die, the point is to die a little slower than everyone else...
ha, that's probably accurate too..

As for the OP, I know we're not really talking about Vedic astrology, but some believe that Rahu is co-ruler of Aquarius (along with Saturn). This makes the most sense to me.

From http://www.barbarapijan.com/bpa/Rash...mbha_lagna.htm (Kumbha is Aquarius, Rahu is North Node, Shani is Saturn):

In Jyotisha, the Kumbha rashi has TWO planetary rulers and they are utterly apples- and-oranges incommensurable with each other: Rahu + Shani.

Way too much from the link for me to post here, but it's definitely worth reading if you want to understand just how Saturn's energy "works" with Aquarius. And perhaps why Aquarius is so different from Saturn's other sign.
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  #72  
Unread 03-23-2017, 06:44 AM
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Smile Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by sylph View Post
ha, that's probably accurate too..

As for the OP, I know we're not really talking about Vedic astrology, but some believe that Rahu is co-ruler of Aquarius (along with Saturn). This makes the most sense to me.

From http://www.barbarapijan.com/bpa/Rash...mbha_lagna.htm (Kumbha is Aquarius, Rahu is North Node, Shani is Saturn):

In Jyotisha, the Kumbha rashi has TWO planetary rulers and they are utterly apples- and-oranges incommensurable with each other: Rahu + Shani.

Way too much from the link for me to post here, but it's definitely worth reading if you want to understand just how Saturn's energy "works" with Aquarius. And perhaps why Aquarius is so different from Saturn's other sign.
Since you've read it, can you give a quick version of how a mind-expanding Sign like Aquarius handles being ruled by a restricting, limiting Planet like Saturn?
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  #73  
Unread 03-23-2017, 08:23 AM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

I am not sure you can say what signs say about death like you are trying to
But Leo is the Sun, the eternal life force. I don't think it is concerned about death.
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  #74  
Unread 03-23-2017, 01:04 PM
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Smile Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by Arena View Post
Yes, true, the ancients did indeed pray to all kinds of gods and they were connected to nature. Let's say they were scared the Sun would die each and every day, even in spite of the evidence that the Sun always came rose at the same time every morning ... now the times have changed and people have moved on from that so as we know today I am pretty sure Leos and those that have the Sun conjunct angles are not scared of death. They are very much aware of their own ability to shine and many of them have a star quality makes their image live forever (or long after they die).

But again, this is off topic
"How the Signs View Death" is too grim a topic for me. Probably was inspired by this discussion about the grimmest of Sign-rulers! Saturn's moon "Tethys" has been dubbed "The Death Star"!

Last edited by david starling; 03-23-2017 at 01:10 PM.
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  #75  
Unread 03-23-2017, 04:47 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
I'm pretty sure the seasonal patterns of Elements and Modalities predate the "cold/dry", "warm/moist", "masculine/feminine" theories. And if so, those are what's really behind the pattern of rulership, along with the yearly sequence of Sun-signs. I've applied a "Heliocentric-cipher", with excellent results. The Heliocentric model was known to the Greek scientific-colony in Alexandria, centuries before Ptolemy.
David, the concept of 4 elements in Hellenistic astrology specifically goes back to Plato and Aristotle (4th century BCE,) although other cultures had similar ideas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_element
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