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  #26  
Unread 01-01-2017, 04:48 AM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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[deleted attacking comment - Moderator] Saturn rules Aquarius because in ancient times to the discovery of the planet Uranus, Saturn was the boundary between the real world and the world of spirits. Saturn was the only planet with rings, and these rings gave Saturn a portal to the higher realms. For this reason Saturn ruled all forms of magic and ruled the transition from mortal to immortal life. The ring system was described as "the ring pass, not pass " dividing line between the spirit world and the real world. As such the attributes we give Aquarius were in the domain of Saturn. Saturn is the adept, those who know how to manipulate the highest planes of existence.
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Rahu, where does this come from? Mme Blavatsky? The discovery of Saturn's rings by Galileo in 1610 awaited the development of decent telescopes.

Now we know that Jupiter, Uranus, and Neptune also have ring systems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_system

There is nothing intrinsic to planetary rings that give a planet a portal status to magic. People have believed in magic since the dawn of humanity. Saturn never ruled "all forms of magic" as most magic practiced in ancient times had nothing to do with astrology.

Gosh, as someone with the sun, Mercury, and Venus in Aquarius and Jupiter in Capricorn, are you saying I should "know how to manipulate the highest planes of existence."?

As a modern Aquarian would say, "Does not compute."

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Last edited by wilsontc; 03-24-2017 at 03:00 PM.
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  #27  
Unread 01-01-2017, 05:05 AM
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Smile Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by rahu View Post
I am totally amazed how little astrological history many self proclaimed experts have. Saturn rules Aquarius because in ancient times to the discovery of the planet Uranus, Saturn was the boundary between the real world and the world of spirits. Saturn was the only planet with rings, and these rings gave Saturn a portal to the higher realms. For this reason Saturn ruled all forms of magic and ruled the transition from mortal to immortal life. The ring system was described as "the ring pass, not pass " dividing line between the spirit world and the real world. As such the attributes we give Aquarius were in the domain of Saturn. Saturn is the adept, those who know how to manipulate the highest planes of existence.
rahu
Saturn is the most powerful Ruler of the Material-realm. Notice this sentence: "....Saturn was the boundary between the real world and the world of spirits." Actually, the Spiritual world is just as "real" as the Materialistic world. Saturn establishes a dangerous barrier between the two Worlds, making it next to impossible to travel back and forth between them, and makes it difficult to believe the Spiritual world "really" exists at all. Neptune, the most powerful Ruler of the Spiritual-realm, is out to dissolve Saturn's barrier entirely, and in the meantime is making it somewhat easier to cross. The Uranian approach is the leave the barrier in place, and simply create Portals, by which back and forth crossing can be easily achieved once such a Portal is located. Aquarius is the Sign best suited for traversing the Uranian Portals.

Last edited by david starling; 01-01-2017 at 05:35 AM.
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  #28  
Unread 01-01-2017, 05:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Saturn is the most powerful Ruler of the Material-realm. Notice this sentence: "....Saturn was the boundary between the real world and the world of spirits." Actually, the Spiritual world is just as "real" as the Materialistic world. Saturn establishes a dangerous barrier between the two Worlds, making it next to impossible to travel back and forth between them, and makes it difficult to believe the Spiritual world "really" exists at all. Neptune, the most powerful Ruler of the Spiritual-realm, is out to dissolve Saturn's barrier, and in the meantime is making it easier to cross.
As I said, Saturn was historically the boundary between the mundane world and the world of spirits.
Your modern insights are interesting but you can't change what the ancients thought rahu
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  #29  
Unread 01-01-2017, 11:08 AM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

Happy New Year to you all!

Interesting article from Skyscript relevant to the topic:

When & why did Uranus become associated with Aquarius?

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/ur_aq.html

In short, article starts off with Robert Hand's statement:

In an interview in 1996, Robert Hand states:

"At any rate, Raphael was the one who assigned Uranus to Aquarius. And the first thing that I understand about Raphael was that he was a terrible astrologer by any standards - traditional or modern. He was basically more interested in selling magical charms and amulets than in doing astrology really well". [1]


Then, it goes on to show that not everyone was excited about the idea that Uranus rules Aquarius:

If we assume that the first Raphael attributed rulership of Uranus to Aquarius, then it suggests that later astrologers would share this view. Certainly this does not appear to be the case in the late nineteenth century. AJ Pearce's (Zadkiel) Text Book of Astrology was published in 1879. In this he states, rather petulantly:

Some modern authors have assigned Aquarius to Uranus, thus either robbing Saturn of his 'day house' or forcing upon him a partner. However until experience teaches us in what signs Uranus and Neptune are most powerful, I must decline to endorse so hasty an attempt to provide for one of the 'houseless wanderers'.

Sepharial, in his Manual of Astrology 1898, didn't believe that Uranus ruled Aquarius:

The dominion of Uranus is indefinite, for he has no house of his own, though he is most successfully placed in the airy triplicity….

As late as 1909, Alan Leo wrote in Everybody's Astrology:

Uranus has been given no sign by astrologers, though Aquarius has often been suggested…


Finally, the conclusion is that John Varley is "the father" of Uranus's rulership over Aquarius:

The often forgotten astrologer and friend of the artist William Blake, John Varley, wrote a little known book entitled A Treatise on Zoadiacal Physiognomy in 1828. In this he states:

Aries and Scorpio are the houses of Mars, Taurus and Libra are the houses of Venus, Gemini and Virgo are under the dominion of Mercury, Cancer is the house of the Moon, Sagittarius and Pisces are the houses of Jupiter, Capricorn is the house of Saturn; and Aquarius is governed by the Herschel planet.



From my personal experience:

Anyone who has ever tried to use "outer planets" as sign rulers in the field of horary and event astrology (where it is relatively easy to verify results) can tell you that this simply doesn't work. "Outers" as sign rulers will produce wrong delineations over and over again. I am yet to meet serious astrologer who uses Uranus as a ruler of Aquarius in event and horary astrology and claims good results. This is particularly true in sports astrology (where there's usually money at stake and every mistake shows in the wallet).

It is not that "outers" don't have any significance, they simply don't "work" as sign rulers. After several thousand sport astrology charts I can say that:
Uranus on angles usually signifies high scoring matches and adds some sort of "craziness" to the event
Neptune on angles usually signifies low scoring as in "not much happening"
Pluto on angles usually signifies some sort of turnaround in the event

Generally, this "works" if you use 1 degree orb maximum. Also, retrogradation matters and they produce different results on different angles.

Similarly, "outers" can be used in horary in case of very tight conjunctions with significators and angles, all 3 tend to act as malefics and usually they signify undesirable things. Overall, every horary chart can be successfully delineated without them.

Last but not least, popular belief that existence of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto is a modern day discovery rests on very shaky ground:

Mention of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto in Mahabharata

http://www.sanskritimagazine.com/ved...o-mahabharata/
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Unread 01-01-2017, 02:37 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by obsidianmineral View Post
I just wanna reason out, why the Aquarius personality fits with Saturn so much that Saturn rules the sign. Sure, there are some similarities, but they don't seem that significant. I get that Aquarius is all about working towards change and society, and that fits with Saturn, but it really isn't thaaaat big of a similarity. Virgo works through routines and habits and yet Saturn isn't in rulership, exaltation or in triplicity there.
???
What planet rules habits?
Donna Cunningham says Moon.
???
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Unread 01-01-2017, 04:01 PM
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Smile Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

Process of elimination. is clearly in the Air-rulership category, because it affects the mind. Gemini is clearly ruled by Mercury, and Libra by Venus. That leaves Aquarius, which is too broad minded and "above-it-all" to be under the heavy, materialistic, restrictive rulership of Saturn in Modern-astrology. Traditionally, there are two versions of Saturnian-rulership, both day and night, and that can explain why Saturn fits both Signs in that paradigm.
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Unread 01-01-2017, 11:44 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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As I said, Saturn was historically the boundary between the mundane world and the world of spirits.
Your modern insights are interesting but you can't change what the ancients thought rahu
The point being, that if Saturn's rings weren't discovered until 1610, the ancients (and they were by no means uniform) couldn't possibly have made some delineation based on Saturn's rings.

rahu, what are your sources here?
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Unread 01-01-2017, 11:50 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

Cap, I note that you do not mention the use of modern outers as sign rulers in modern natal astrology. I use both traditional and modern rulers in natal chart interpretation, and both have value-- in this context.

One point to keep in mind, in any house system but whole signs, is that the house containing the first part (or all) of the sign of Aquarius may have Capricorn on the cusp. This gives Saturn some extra significance when interpreting Aquarian planets in that house.
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Unread 01-01-2017, 11:56 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Process of elimination. is clearly in the Air-rulership category, because it affects the mind. Gemini is clearly ruled by Mercury, and Libra by Venus. That leaves Aquarius, which is too broad minded and "above-it-all" to be under the heavy, materialistic, restrictive rulership of Saturn in Modern-astrology. Traditionally, there are two versions of Saturnian-rulership, both day and night, and that can explain why Saturn fits both Signs in that paradigm.
David, Uranus affects whatever sign it touches. It has no particular relevance to the mind. For that matter, that Roman love goddess hussy was not notably cerebral.

Saturn affects and is affected by whatever sign it touches. Saturn does tend to render things more concrete and material. But maybe this is why Aquarius (modernly) is the sign of the scientist. Science begins with hypotheses and theories. Then these get rendered into methodologies, experimental designs, results, and conclusions. If they get further rendered into applications, they have a very material outcome. What Saturn teaches is a kind of cool logic and ground-truth. Uranus gives the flash of insight, the "Eureka!" moment.
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Unread 01-02-2017, 08:48 AM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

[QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Saturn is the most powerful Ruler of the Material-realm. Notice this sentence: "....Saturn was the boundary between the real world and the world of spirits." Actually, the Spiritual world is just as "real" as the Materialistic world. Saturn establishes a dangerous barrier between the two Worlds, making it next to impossible to travel back and forth between them, and makes it difficult to believe the Spiritual world "really" exists at all. Neptune, the most powerful Ruler of the Spiritual-realm, is out to dissolve Saturn's barrier entirely,
As a natal Saturn applying square to Neptune, A-M-E-N to that. Not very helpful for those 'grounded'people.

Quote:
and in the meantime is making it somewhat easier to cross. The Uranian approach is the leave the barrier in place, and simply create Portals, by which back and forth crossing can be easily achieved once such a Portal is located. Aquarius is the Sign best suited for traversing the Uranian Portals.
As one of the Uranus trine Neptune individuals, with Saturn and Uranus in the same sign, astrology has been mentally 'a portal' in the attempt to 'cross the line' of this far and no further that manifestational Saturn so definintely draws.
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Unread 01-02-2017, 11:28 AM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Cap, I note that you do not mention the use of modern outers as sign rulers in modern natal astrology. I use both traditional and modern rulers in natal chart interpretation, and both have value-- in this context.

One point to keep in mind, in any house system but whole signs, is that the house containing the first part (or all) of the sign of Aquarius may have Capricorn on the cusp. This gives Saturn some extra significance when interpreting Aquarian planets in that house.
I don't have enough practical experience in natal astrology to make any claims, but I assume that the same principles apply in all of astrology. I can only say that "outer" planets do have a meaning in natal astrology, based on Venus conj. Neptune in my own chart. I guess I would classify myself as an open minded traditionalist leaning towards pragmatism and eclecticism. A lot of useful stuff, for instance, can be found in Vedic astrology too. In that regard, Dr Farr is an AW member who has made a long lasting impression on me.

My main criticism of modern astrology (besides the rulership issue) is its focus on personality/psychology. People already know themselves better than any astrologer could tell them, I don't see practical value in this. From a practical standpoint, the most useful forms of astrology are horary, event, electional (which is really event astrology in reverse) and medical (but one must possess medical knowledge as well to successfully practice it). I don't need astrology to assist me in my spiritual endeavors, there are much more potent techniques for that, such as meditation and yoga.
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  #37  
Unread 01-02-2017, 12:53 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by Cap View Post
My main criticism of modern astrology (besides the rulership issue) is its focus on personality/psychology. People already know themselves better than any astrologer could tell them, I don't see practical value in this. From a practical standpoint, the most useful forms of astrology are horary, event, electional (which is really event astrology in reverse) and medical (but one must possess medical knowledge as well to successfully practice it). I don't need astrology to assist me in my spiritual endeavors, there are much more potent techniques for that, such as meditation and yoga.
There's an undeniable connection between thoughts, feelings and state of health and how your life unfolds. As the famous quote goes:

"Watch your thoughts, they become words;
watch your words, they become actions;
watch your actions, they become habits;
watch your habits, they become character;
watch your character, for it becomes your destiny."

In that sense, modern and traditional just deal with different stages of the creation process, the process of turning thoughts into things. Both have their place. I guess this also explains why modern astrology gives free will a much greater role than traditional astrology because it's focused mostly on the first stages of creation (thought patterns and habits) where there's still a lot of latitude for the individual because that's where momentum is created, while traditional astrology is mostly focused on the final stage of creation, the specific physical event, where there's next to no latitude left to the individual except going with the full-blown momentum or making minor adjustments. It all depends on what you are looking for.
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  #38  
Unread 01-02-2017, 02:07 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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The point being, that if Saturn's rings weren't discovered until 1610, the ancients (and they were by no means uniform) couldn't possibly have made some delineation based on Saturn's rings.

rahu, what are your sources here?
Are you familiar with the Great Year theory and how it relates to history and eras of development?
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Unread 01-02-2017, 02:19 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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There's an undeniable connection between thoughts, feelings and state of health and how your life unfolds. As the famous quote goes:

"Watch your thoughts, they become words;
watch your words, they become actions;
watch your actions, they become habits;
watch your habits, they become character;
watch your character, for it becomes your destiny."

In that sense, modern and traditional just deal with different stages of the creation process, the process of turning thoughts into things. Both have their place. I guess this also explains why modern astrology gives free will a much greater role than traditional astrology because it's focused mostly on the first stages of creation (thought patterns and habits) where there's still a lot of latitude for the individual because that's where momentum is created, while traditional astrology is mostly focused on the final stage of creation, the specific physical event, where there's next to no latitude left to the individual except going with the full-blown momentum or making minor adjustments. It all depends on what you are looking for.
You make a good point!

I can give credit to modern astrology for exploring the initial stages of creation in this 3D reality. However, I don't consider any form of reality manipulation, whether it is applying LOA, chanting materialistic mantras or any other similar technique to be spiritual in nature. It is nice to know the rules of the game but by applying them for the fulfillment of his/her wishes one still stays deep rooted in the system. In that sense, astrology is of little to no help in spiritual matters.
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Unread 01-02-2017, 02:20 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by Cap View Post
I don't have enough practical experience in natal astrology to make any claims, but I assume that the same principles apply in all of astrology. I can only say that "outer" planets do have a meaning in natal astrology, based on Venus conj. Neptune in my own chart. I guess I would classify myself as an open minded traditionalist leaning towards pragmatism and eclecticism. A lot of useful stuff, for instance, can be found in Vedic astrology too. In that regard, Dr Farr is an AW member who has made a long lasting impression on me.

My main criticism of modern astrology (besides the rulership issue) is its focus on personality/psychology. People already know themselves better than any astrologer could tell them, I don't see practical value in this. From a practical standpoint, the most useful forms of astrology are horary, event, electional (which is really event astrology in reverse) and medical (but one must possess medical knowledge as well to successfully practice it). I don't need astrology to assist me in my spiritual endeavors, there are much more potent techniques for that, such as meditation and yoga.
It may surprise you, but not everyone knows themselves 100% nor do they know their talents or what they're gonna be in life. Plus, modern astrology doesn't stop talking about facts and predictions. And honestly, the generational planet's rulership has been tested in order to check that these planets really do have a sign, and it turns out they do. People weren't even sure about Uranus's rulership 100 years after its discovery; that goes to show how much modern astrologers were wary of it not working, and yet, it was accepted in the end and that clearly was because it had worked.


You're doubting the most popular form of astrology based purely on how much use it has to you, which makes it a pretty weak argument to use. In fact, I personally have witnessed horary to be even less accurate and reliable than natal astrology, which gives me some arguments to be against horary.


And now, focusing on what I do agree with you, I have to say that outer planets only work in natal charts as far as I know. You may consider Uranus in horary astrology and if it has a special significance in a certain chart, but that's as far as it goes in my opinion.
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Unread 01-02-2017, 04:03 PM
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Smile Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

[QUOTE=Frisiangal;754424]
Quote:

As a natal Saturn applying square to Neptune, A-M-E-N to that. Not very helpful for those 'grounded'people.



As one of the Uranus trine Neptune individuals, with Saturn and Uranus in the same sign, astrology has been mentally 'a portal' in the attempt to 'cross the line' of this far and no further that manifestational Saturn so definintely draws.
Yes, Astrology as an "interface" between Material and Spiritual.
Saturn is of tremendous help in studying the Material-realm, and Aquarius is good at that, but not exclusively so. [IMO] that's not what Aquarius is really about, and in Modern-astrology fits the Sign better. I do see it as increasing mental-ability in whatever Sign and House it's located.

Last edited by david starling; 01-02-2017 at 04:15 PM.
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Unread 01-02-2017, 10:02 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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I don't have enough practical experience in natal astrology to make any claims, but I assume that the same principles apply in all of astrology. I can only say that "outer" planets do have a meaning in natal astrology, based on Venus conj. Neptune in my own chart. I guess I would classify myself as an open minded traditionalist leaning towards pragmatism and eclecticism. A lot of useful stuff, for instance, can be found in Vedic astrology too. In that regard, Dr Farr is an AW member who has made a long lasting impression on me.
Sadly, Dr. Farr has not been here for several years. When I first learned astrology, modern was what there was. I used the modern outers as sign rulers, and thought they worked well. I subsequently added the traditional sign rulers, and thought they worked well. But this was entirely for natal charts and their derivatives.

Quote:
My main criticism of modern astrology (besides the rulership issue) is its focus on personality/psychology. People already know themselves better than any astrologer could tell them, I don't see practical value in this. From a practical standpoint, the most useful forms of astrology are horary, event, electional (which is really event astrology in reverse) and medical (but one must possess medical knowledge as well to successfully practice it). I don't need astrology to assist me in my spiritual endeavors, there are much more potent techniques for that, such as meditation and yoga.
Alas, many people do not know themselves well. That's why they consult an astrologer. If you peruse the OPs here, many people come for career counseling, insights into their relationships or lack thereof. "Psychology" is kind of misnomer for modern astrology. What a Ph. D. clinical psychologist does today and Liz Greene's brand of Jungian interpretations are very different. Very few people on astrology boards actually inquire about their spiritual lives.

I also balk a little at converting astrology into a type of fortune-telling.
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Unread 01-02-2017, 10:15 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

Who is Dr. Farr??
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Unread 01-02-2017, 10:41 PM
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Who is Dr. Farr??
Look up his Posts. He was (is) a really cool guy with an amazing amount of Astrological knowledge, and a very open-minded approach to Astrology.
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post

Look up his Posts.
He was (is) a really cool guy
with an amazing amount of Astrological knowledge,
and a very open-minded approach to Astrology.

Well said
dr. farr himself commented
on one of the many threads
to which he contributed
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...303#post335303

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post

Open minded is the attitude I've had for many years;


but for me, the most important element is whether or not the material I am using works well and reliably FOR ME:
that's what has made me an eclectic. A utilitarian eclectic.
Who do I regard as authors having had the greatest influences upon my thinking?
Modernist pioneer Charles Carter, and the alchemical astrologer, Paracelsus.
But I've taken ideas and methods from everywhere, including Vedic and Chinese astrological traditions.
Now, I am not a system-maker, I am just a "blue collar" person
who only cares about what gives good results in prediction and analysis.
An author might make 99 statements which I consider baloney,
but one statement which I consider of real value-
so, I take the one statement, and reject the other 99;
that's especially what I have done with the oldtime Hellenist authors,
and in studying them I have found a FEW real gems,
most of which have been long forgotten.

So, yes, I absolutely believe in being open-minded,
and I consider this to be the best route to take
in the study and practice of the astrological arts...

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  #46  
Unread 01-03-2017, 02:48 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by obsidianmineral View Post
I mean, just recently I understood the energy of Jupiter and therefore why Jupiter rules Pisces and Sagittarius, but what about Saturn?

Jupiter is like someone that wants to be optimistic and be generous. Jupiter believes that everyone should grow, that everyone should be rich and happy. This is why it's also related to justice, since Jupiter thinks that's justice. And it is. Everyone should be respected and everyone should have the same rights. Jupiter is a very progressive planet. This humanitarian side of Jupiter is related more to the Pisces energy, since Pisces is feels pity for the poverty of the world and feels compassion for everyone. So to be brief, Jupiter has two sides: Optimism and justice/being humanitarian. Optimism --> Sagittarius. Humanitarian and pity --> Pisces.

Buuut, isn't Aquarius also humanitarian? Shouldn't Jupiter rule that sign? Exactly why is Saturn in rulership when in Aquarius? Maybe it's related to the fact that Saturn wants to get to work on things and wants to slowly build its way toward high positions and therefore is serving society? I don't know... Maybe Jupiter isn't aloof like Aquarius and that's why it doesn't rule that sign.

Honestly, Uranus and Neptune seem to fit better as Aquarius and Pisces' rulers
I like to bring this picture out now and again because it perfectly illustrates the symmetry in the traditional planetary rulerships. Notice in the picture, the planets are in descending order and the signs follow one after the other. The co-rulerships are symmetrical.



^ If you take some time to really think about that, it's pretty amazing.

Some points I have against using the modern outer planets as sign rulers:

- It doesn't make sense in terms of the symmetry above

- It means Scorpio, Aquarius and Pisces must have less diversity of expression within generations. e.g. it would imply that for instance Scorpio Risings in the Pluto in Sagittarius generation would look and act more similar to eachother than other signs since their ruling planet is generational. I have found this not to be the case.

- In general, I have found in personal cases that people tend to embody their traditional ruling planet

- When you look back at when the outer planets were in their own signs, it's arguable if they are functioning more powerfully or better in them. e.g. Pluto seemed to be at it's most powerful in Leo... Neptune is in Pisces and all I'm seeing it function in a more malefic way than usual to be honest.

As for Saturn ruling Aquarius, I agree it's somewhat counter-intuitive at first. But consider these points:

- Aquarius is cold and aloof
- Aquarius is about the community (community is structured, bound by traditions and regulations)
- Aquarius is opposite Leo, the ego, ruled by the Sun. Saturn is furthest away from the Sun. Opposite to ego (communal again)
- Just like Capricorn expands materially using Saturn's laws of boundaries and structures, Aquarius does so to but more so with ideas and concepts. These signs are not stagnating in Saturn, they understand and make use of it and there is growth happening in their sphere of influence.
- Saturn is exalted in Libra. Thinking about that for awhile helps you to break loose from the typical doom and gloom associated with Saturn and might help you understand it's rulership over Aquarius.
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  #47  
Unread 03-02-2017, 02:52 AM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by HoldOrFold View Post
As for Saturn ruling Aquarius, I agree it's somewhat counter-intuitive at first. But consider these points:

- Aquarius is cold and aloof
- Aquarius is about the community (community is structured, bound by traditions and regulations)
- Aquarius is opposite Leo, the ego, ruled by the Sun. Saturn is furthest away from the Sun. Opposite to ego (communal again)
- Just like Capricorn expands materially using Saturn's laws of boundaries and structures, Aquarius does so to but more so with ideas and concepts. These signs are not stagnating in Saturn, they understand and make use of it and there is growth happening in their sphere of influence.
- Saturn is exalted in Libra. Thinking about that for awhile helps you to break loose from the typical doom and gloom associated with Saturn and might help you understand it's rulership over Aquarius.
All great points! And I would like to add one more
-Aquarius is a fixed sign. Saturn is fixed sure, but what is fixed about Uranus?! This never added up for me.
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Unread 03-02-2017, 03:13 AM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

Some additional points re to thread topic:

-in Western traditional, Saturn is associated with the element earth (thus Saturn as dispositor of earthy Capricorn)
-in the Vedic tradition, however, Saturn is associated with the element air (thus Saturn as dispositor of airy Aquarius)
Could Saturn be a double-element planet (earth + air)? There is some tradition about Mercury being a double (earth + water; air + earth)...

-then there is the theory of the original attribution of sign "rulerships" based on planet's relationship to the Sun: ie,
: for the outward spread of planets going from the Sun:
Sun = Leo, next planet Mercury = next sign Virgo, then Venus = next sign Libra, then Mars = Scorpio, then Jupiter = Sagittarius, then (final on the outward spread) Saturn = Capricon

+Then starting from the outer limit coming back toward the Sun:
: outermost (traditional planet) Saturn = Aquarius, then next planet (coming back inward-sunward-from Saturn) is Jupiter = Pisces, then next planet coming sunward is Mars = Aries, then next planet coming sunward is Venus = Taurus, next planet coming sunward is Mercury = Gemini, and finally a jot toward the earth, with Moon = Cancer

(Sun to Moon via the circuit of the solar system, Leo outward through signs, then back inward through signs, Leo to Cancer)

Could be why (or another reason why) Saturn had been allocated to Capricorn and to Aquarius, in the olden times...
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  #49  
Unread 03-02-2017, 05:33 PM
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Smile Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by dr. farr View Post
Some additional points re to thread topic:

-in Western traditional, Saturn is associated with the element earth (thus Saturn as dispositor of earthy Capricorn)
-in the Vedic tradition, however, Saturn is associated with the element air (thus Saturn as dispositor of airy Aquarius)
Could Saturn be a double-element planet (earth + air)? There is some tradition about Mercury being a double (earth + water; air + earth)...

-then there is the theory of the original attribution of sign "rulerships" based on planet's relationship to the Sun: ie,
: for the outward spread of planets going from the Sun:
Sun = Leo, next planet Mercury = next sign Virgo, then Venus = next sign Libra, then Mars = Scorpio, then Jupiter = Sagittarius, then (final on the outward spread) Saturn = Capricon

+Then starting from the outer limit coming back toward the Sun:
: outermost (traditional planet) Saturn = Aquarius, then next planet (coming back inward-sunward-from Saturn) is Jupiter = Pisces, then next planet coming sunward is Mars = Aries, then next planet coming sunward is Venus = Taurus, next planet coming sunward is Mercury = Gemini, and finally a jot toward the earth, with Moon = Cancer

(Sun to Moon via the circuit of the solar system, Leo outward through signs, then back inward through signs, Leo to Cancer)

Could be why (or another reason why) Saturn had been allocated to Capricorn and to Aquarius, in the olden times...
Apropos of my belief that we're currently in the culminating stage of the (TROPICAL) Age of Capricorn, to be immediately followed by the most effective stage of the (TROPICAL) Age of Aquarius: Traditionally, both Ages would then be ruled by the Greater Malefic, Saturn. In which case there would be no improvement in the "human condition", as many (myself included) expect there will be, once the Aquarian Age does take effect. Leaving aside the Modern debate over the nature of Uranian influence being beneficial, as many (myself included) contend it is, it seems to me that having one planet rule two Signs requires a change in the Quality of the planet's effect from one Sign to the other. In the case of Saturn, applying the Alchemical metaphor of "changing Lead into Gold", I see no Modern reason why Saturn couldn't be extremely problematic in Capricorn and extremely beneficial in Aquarius, due to the change in Quality, and "As different as Night and Day".

Last edited by david starling; 03-02-2017 at 05:41 PM.
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Unread 03-02-2017, 11:54 PM
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Re: Why does Saturn rule Aquarius?

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Apropos of my belief that we're currently in the culminating stage of the (TROPICAL) Age of Capricorn, to be immediately followed by the most effective stage of the (TROPICAL) Age of Aquarius: Traditionally, both Ages would then be ruled by the Greater Malefic, Saturn. In which case there would be no improvement in the "human condition", as many (myself included) expect there will be, once the Aquarian Age does take effect. Leaving aside the Modern debate over the nature of Uranian influence being beneficial, as many (myself included) contend it is, it seems to me that having one planet rule two Signs requires a change in the Quality of the planet's effect from one Sign to the other. In the case of Saturn, applying the Alchemical metaphor of "changing Lead into Gold", I see no Modern reason why Saturn couldn't be extremely problematic in Capricorn and extremely beneficial in Aquarius, due to the change in Quality, and "As different as Night and Day".
We're actually in the transition period between the Ages of Pisces -not Capricorn- and Aquarius. It's retrograde through the zodiac because of the motion of precession. Just before dawn on the vernal equinox, Pisces and Aquarius can both be seen on the eastern horizon. Pisces won't be completely out of the picture til about 2700 AD?

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_precession

But there's a lot of different opinions as to when the Age of Aquarius is supposed to start (or has started).
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