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  #26  
Unread 03-05-2016, 06:22 AM
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Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
{We are all Wayfarers on the Road of Life}

Like I've been sayin, it's the Age of Tropical Capricorn, here on Planet Earth. That's our Astrological environment in the Material, Temporal sense. And, the Environment determines "weakness" and "strength". So of COURSE the Sign opposite the environmental Sign has qualities not useful to coping with the current situation we're all in. Barefoot in an Age best suited to steel-toed boots. Notice that in addition to that "disease thing" tagged to the name of the 4th Sign, we've got "lunacy" and "lunatic" tagged to its Ruler. In this Age, SATURN RULES, and strength and weakness is judged on that basis. The 4th Sign will be the chief beneficiary of the AofA, which (contrary to popular opinion) hasn't started yet[In My Well-Considered Opinion].
Where do you advance this theory? Very interesting. Also, I am not sold on the idea that the 7th or 12th signs from the 'environmental' sign are not useful, etc. Take the Piscean age for example - it's not Virgo qualities that were less than useful. If anything it's the continued presence of Arian / Mars energy, or the power and dominance drives building imperial institutions (cap/Saturn) that create problems for the Piscean visions. (And none of the three would have survived without the farmers and careful copyists!)


Last edited by passiflora; 03-05-2016 at 06:27 AM.
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  #27  
Unread 03-05-2016, 06:44 AM
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Re: Weak Signs

I think it depends on how you define "weak". Like, I'm physically weak but I believe I'm mentally strong. Not as strong as I'd like to be. My anxiety is VERY bad and I don't have the greatest self-esteem, but I'm very strong-willed. I'm very critical and not easily influenced. Also, I can fight to the death if I have to. This is me and I am not a sign. I'm just trying to illustrate how definitions of strong vs. weak can differ.

I think every sign can be seen as strong/weak in it's own way. I'm not saying this to be nice. I have no reason to be nice. I'm talking about the signs as archetypes, not people, but take a sign like Pisces for example. Pisces could be seen as weak: impressionable, easily influenced, oversensitive but as Sibylline said, Pisces is strong in empathy and imagination.

Then on the opposite end, we have strength. When I think "strength", Aries (representing the warrior archetype) is the first sign that comes to mind. Pisces is stereotyped as oversensitive but Aries is stereotyped as easily angered and that could be seen as oversensitivity too, in a way. If you're the type to get angry at every little thing, that too could be seen as a weakness. This could be perceived as childishness or immaturity. Impulsiveness isn't always the most intelligent option, and sometimes, it takes real strength to admit your vulnerability rather than trying to win at everything. I'm talking about Aries as an archetype and mostly just it's shadow side, not Aries Suns.

It sickens me to see weakness in others, because I hate to see it in myself. I think it's mostly the Scorpio in my chart that makes me this way, but the Taurus and Uranus might also have some effect. Even the Libra...I see myself as being the archetype of the judge, "objectively" weighing every piece of evidence there is…I can't trust other people to make decisions for me. Decision-making is MY strong suit, even if they take a while to form. I would define strength as the ability to think for yourself, but other people would define "strength" differently (...one of my teachers believes that freethought is a negative consequence of America capitalism...). In this case, I would assume Sagittarius to be the "strongest" sign, at least as an archetype…in my experience, Cancer Suns (especially with Mercury and Venus in Gemini) happen to be the "weakest" (according to my own definition), but I don't think Cancer is weak as a sign. Cancer is known for having a hard protective shell, and then there are individuals such as Courtney Love whose strength I admire.

Last edited by craft94; 03-05-2016 at 06:55 AM.
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  #28  
Unread 03-05-2016, 07:10 AM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by passiflora View Post
Where do you advance this theory? Very interesting. Also, I am not sold on the idea that the 7th or 12th signs from the 'environmental' sign are not useful, etc. Take the Piscean age for example - it's not Virgo qualities that were less than useful. If anything it's the continued presence of Arian / Mars energy, or the power and dominance drives building imperial institutions (cap/Saturn) that create problems for the Piscean visions. (And none of the three would have survived without the farmers and careful copyists!)
I've studied the spots off the Ages concept for 40+ years. First in library and bookstores, then on the net. I started with the Sidereal Ages and quickly adopted the well-known polarities method. So I believe the Sidereal Age of Pisces should be viewed as the Age of Pisces/Virgo. Also, that Virgo in this context is in an essential, supportive role. I also take the "over-lap" of Ages, also well-known, extremely seriously. The Foreground Age of Pisces/Virgo concurrent with the Background Age of Aries/Libra. As far as the Sidereal Ages go, I think your impressions are spot on. What isn't spot on is this off-thread, in-depth discussion of the Ages, for which I'm mostly responsible! The Astrology in the Age of Aquarius forum would be the logical choice.:
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  #29  
Unread 03-05-2016, 07:18 AM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

Craft, for what it's worth, the Ryder-Waite Tarot deck has a card in the Major Arcana labeled "Strength", which is commonly linked to the Sign Leo.
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  #30  
Unread 03-05-2016, 12:25 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

Hi

There are No weak sun signs.To say there is,it is belittling astrology.

There are natal charts that indicate a weak personality.

Charts lack of hard aspects,(especially from saturn and pluto to personal planets)with full of trines and sextiles may point to a weak person.when there are tough transits,they easily feel depressed and they become paralyzed and Can't cope with problems.Because,they are not familiar to that kind of stressful energy.
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  #31  
Unread 03-05-2016, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
The beginning of this Age around 400AD gives historians a sense of Darkness. Religions now exist like lanterns and torches to keep the Light, so obvious during the Age of Sagittarius, alive in our hearts. Astrology may not be a religion, but it performs the same role. The male domination of this Age is fear-inspired, as is the characterization of Saturn as the evil, extremely powerful being known as Satan. Big, strong men, afraid of the dark! Who knew!? But Capricorn, the cleverist of Age-signs when it comes to technology, has gone lanterns and torches one better--Modern Science and technology, chasing away the Darkness with electricity and shifting consciousness to concentration on the Material Plane. The Aquarian gylph isn't about electricity, it's about Thought waves. Control THOSE, under the aegis of Day-Saturn, when the fear now caused by Night-Saturn has faded, and the Light again becomes directly available, and Technology becomes auxiliary and secondary to our own human mental abilities.
The Aquarian glyph is also about Water, as the word AQUArius implies. While it's an Air-Sign, a Sign of Thought, it carries and pours out Water (Emotion); and the Water that will be most valued during the AofA will be that of the 4th Sign.
c.t., as a fellow denizen of the 12th House you might see why I've personally changed the name of the 4th Sign to "Mer", symbolized by a mermaid--fits perfectly! [IMO, of course]
Hi David,

In vedic astrology too there are Male and female nakshatras( within Capricorn and Aquarius) and some are marked by Night Satan ( Demonic..Asura) and Day Saturn ( Devas) !!
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  #32  
Unread 03-05-2016, 03:24 PM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by luckyoctober View Post
Hi

There are No weak sun signs.To say there is,it is belittling astrology.

There are natal charts that indicate a weak personality.

Charts lack of hard aspects,(especially from saturn and pluto to personal planets)with full of trines and sextiles may point to a weak person.when there are tough transits,they easily feel depressed and they become paralyzed and Can't cope with problems.Because,they are not familiar to that kind of stressful energy.
I agree that some Charts are better configured to cope with stress than others. But
some Sun-signs are more, and some are less Functional when it comes to dealing with
the Quality of stress from one Age to another. [IMO] Also, from one profession to another.

Last edited by david starling; 03-05-2016 at 08:17 PM.
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  #33  
Unread 03-05-2016, 08:41 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
c.t., as a fellow denizen of the 12th House you might see why I've personally changed the name of the 4th Sign to "Mer", symbolized by a mermaid--fits perfectly! [IMO, of course]


This may or may not be what you were getting at, but I pictured the sea-goat (Capricorn) stretched out in the circular chart with its horned head in the 10th house (meaning Capricorn as supreme ruler of the age) and it's "mermaid tail" in the 4th house - so the tail rests in Cancerian waters (not sure what that this would mean - perhaps the primordial waters that the age draws its inspiration from?). Maybe you could elaborate more on what you mean.

I see the importance for Cancer in the Capricorn age, however why would these same waters be pertinent to the Aquarian age? If the Aquarian age is the one where humans unlock there full capacity (which I think is very plausible) then why wouldn't the fixed waters of Scorpio fit better? Scorpio is the sign where emotional alchemy occurs; the process of transforming your dark and mucky emotions into the emotional resilience and power that the sign is famous for. Why then wouldn't emotional mastery (Scorpio) mesh well with the age of human supremacy (Aquarius)? Interested in hearing your thoughts.
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  #34  
Unread 03-05-2016, 08:44 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

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I think it depends on how you define "weak". Like, I'm physically weak but I believe I'm mentally strong. Not as strong as I'd like to be. My anxiety is VERY bad and I don't have the greatest self-esteem, but I'm very strong-willed. I'm very critical and not easily influenced. Also, I can fight to the death if I have to. This is me and I am not a sign. I'm just trying to illustrate how definitions of strong vs. weak can differ.

I think every sign can be seen as strong/weak in it's own way. I'm not saying this to be nice. I have no reason to be nice. I'm talking about the signs as archetypes, not people, but take a sign like Pisces for example. Pisces could be seen as weak: impressionable, easily influenced, oversensitive but as Sibylline said, Pisces is strong in empathy and imagination.

Then on the opposite end, we have strength. When I think "strength", Aries (representing the warrior archetype) is the first sign that comes to mind. Pisces is stereotyped as oversensitive but Aries is stereotyped as easily angered and that could be seen as oversensitivity too, in a way. If you're the type to get angry at every little thing, that too could be seen as a weakness. This could be perceived as childishness or immaturity. Impulsiveness isn't always the most intelligent option, and sometimes, it takes real strength to admit your vulnerability rather than trying to win at everything. I'm talking about Aries as an archetype and mostly just it's shadow side, not Aries Suns.

It sickens me to see weakness in others, because I hate to see it in myself. I think it's mostly the Scorpio in my chart that makes me this way, but the Taurus and Uranus might also have some effect. Even the Libra...I see myself as being the archetype of the judge, "objectively" weighing every piece of evidence there is…I can't trust other people to make decisions for me. Decision-making is MY strong suit, even if they take a while to form. I would define strength as the ability to think for yourself, but other people would define "strength" differently (...one of my teachers believes that freethought is a negative consequence of America capitalism...). In this case, I would assume Sagittarius to be the "strongest" sign, at least as an archetype…in my experience, Cancer Suns (especially with Mercury and Venus in Gemini) happen to be the "weakest" (according to my own definition), but I don't think Cancer is weak as a sign. Cancer is known for having a hard protective shell, and then there are individuals such as Courtney Love whose strength I admire.
Just wanting to say that this was a pretty good post.
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  #35  
Unread 03-05-2016, 09:00 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by luckyoctober View Post
Hi

There are No weak sun signs.To say there is,it is belittling astrology.

There are natal charts that indicate a weak personality.

Charts lack of hard aspects,(especially from saturn and pluto to personal planets)with full of trines and sextiles may point to a weak person.when there are tough transits,they easily feel depressed and they become paralyzed and Can't cope with problems.Because,they are not familiar to that kind of stressful energy.
Y'know, the idea of the thread came to me when I was perusing the moon thread and I noticed there were some who were calling certain signs "strong". This triggered memories of previous discussions about this same topic, the issue of which signs were "survivors"

Now, strength presupposes weakness so naturally if there are strong signs then there must be weak signs, yes?

However, I find it pretty interesting that many were quick (save a couple) to say that there are no weak signs and all signs have there strengths and weaknesses (I happen to agree with this view). It was a little personal experiment to see how people would respond. So far I've observed some things:

1. All signs have there strengths and weaknesses (a.k.a there is no such thing as strong or weak. Any alluding to such is probably rooted in ego)

2. There are strong signs and weak signs.

3. People are dismissive of simplicity (I think this is folly - Propaganda works very well when its simplistic - e.g political slogans).

I'd be interested to know what people have to say about this. (including calling me out)
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  #36  
Unread 03-05-2016, 09:12 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

Concerning the special qualities of the Signs:

A quote here by Mark Edmond Jones from his Book Horary Astrology: "There are many conventional and long established "special qualities" of the signs, which are of uneven and often very questionable value. "

A partial list of some of the qualities of the Signs considered as Weak or Strong.

Wilson's dictionary gives Cancer Capricorn Pisces as Weak and Leo Scorpio and Aquarius as Strong. Contributing from "A Complete Dictionary of Astrology, London, 1819.

All the best
Vyri
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  #37  
Unread 03-05-2016, 09:21 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by Vyri View Post
Concerning the special qualities of the Signs:

A quote here by Mark Edmond Jones from his Book Horary Astrology: "There are many conventional and long established "special qualities" of the signs, which are of uneven and often very questionable value. "

A partial list of some of the qualities of the Signs considered as Weak or Strong.

Wilson's dictionary gives Cancer Capricorn Pisces as Weak and Leo Scorpio and Aquarius as Strong. Contributing from "A Complete Dictionary of Astrology, London, 1819.

All the best
Vyri
Does the book go into detail as to why those signs are seen as weak and strong?
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Unread 03-05-2016, 09:56 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

There is another reference given by Manly P. Hall from his Astrological Keywords System given here; Strong and Weak Signs.
Same mention indicated by how their natural positions within a map either fortifies the constitution or is significant of an ailing disposition. The key is the association that each planet has given to a natural relationship with the other rulers of concern-affecting the signs temperament and personal disposition. The natural harmony and disharmony of each ruler being considered. Among other qualities of a sign.

Scorpio Aquarius Leo are called strong signs because they fortify the constitution, Cancer Capricorn and Pisces are called weak signs because those born under them are often delicate and ailing.
Maybe someone else can give a more qualified testimony, I am only a novice.



All the best
Vyri

Last edited by Vyri; 03-05-2016 at 11:29 PM.
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  #39  
Unread 03-05-2016, 10:35 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

viri -

I appreciate your moon quote signature.
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  #40  
Unread 03-06-2016, 03:00 AM
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Re: Weak Signs

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The worst sign is Cancer though man. Cardinal water? Super emotions? Bah, needless, worthless Sun sign. Glad they named a killer disease after it, what a waste of space.
http://www.care2.com/greenliving/10-...ml/old-sad-dog

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
If I may, I'd like to take the Onus off of Saturn, for people, such as Kitchy and Duenderoja, who view Saturn as an ally in their Charts. The Saturnian vibration itself isn't to blame. It's like fire--use it well and it's extremely useful, even life-saving. But to those who can't process it properly, for whatever reason, it's like fire out of control--explosive and deadly. Especially in combination with improper processing of the vibration of Mars. The problem for all of us is, those types have used their affliction to gain dominion over the planet using Capricornian-Age technology that was meant for the benefit of civilization. The gross misuse of this Age's Saturnian Rulership and Capricornian Age technological ability is a human failing and shouldn't be blamed on Saturn or Capricorn. "The 'Devil' made them do it" doesn't cut it in my book.
I don't think it's like fire. It's not explosive. "Bad Saturn" is crushing and oppressive. Positive application of Saturnine principles is constructive and productive... however, sometimes the positive and negative effects occur simultaneously, which is unfortunate.
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  #41  
Unread 03-06-2016, 09:48 AM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

Yeah, the simile regarding fire is more about the combination of Saturn and Mars that afflicts this Tropical Age of Capricorn. The fact that it could be called "the Age of Explosives" sparked it. Gun powder came in at the Age's beginning, around 400A.D., in China, hurling Saturn's metal (lead). But the Background Age of Sagittarius held it off in the West for about 1000 years, in favor of the bow and arrow. Dynamite was invented by Alfred Nobel for building roads and tunnels. The Wright brothers invented the combustion -engine airplane (combustion -engines run on small, contained explosions) to further transportation. First thing you know, the Masters of War are dropping dynamite out of airplanes. Every civilization -building Capricornian invention has met the same fate, including the Internet, now used for drones equipped with "hellfire"! missiles.
The point is, Saturn can be an ally if it's well placed in the Chart, a Benific. Not everyone is so fortunate. And when processed improperly and immorally, a Malefic Saturn can provide the ability to dominate and destroy. Hence, the Masters of War, and those who serve them out of fear, or, because the $$$ is good.

Last edited by david starling; 03-06-2016 at 09:54 AM.
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Unread 03-06-2016, 04:20 PM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

There are no weak Signs. There are only weak people who have them as Signs. And those who know they are weak, are far stronger than those who are weak but believe they are strong.
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  #43  
Unread 03-06-2016, 04:39 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

Starling - I must disagree with you this one time....Broken-stop-.jpg
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  #44  
Unread 03-06-2016, 04:46 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

Saturn has never been my friend.
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Unread 03-06-2016, 04:49 PM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

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Starling - I must disagree with you this one time....Attachment 58625
About what? If it's about my previous post, it doesn't include you. [IMO]
Didn't mean for it to make you drive off the road, if that's what it was.

Last edited by david starling; 03-06-2016 at 05:06 PM.
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Unread 03-06-2016, 05:03 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

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About what? If it's about my previous post, it doesn't include you. [IMO]
my bad attempt at humor?

"there is no such thing as a weak sign"

not meant to be a loaded statement. sorry.
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  #47  
Unread 03-06-2016, 05:43 PM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

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Saturn has never been my friend.
Saturn is the "weakness detector" in a Chart. If vulnerability exists, Saturn will alert you to it. There are some, like Kitchy, who can marshal the resources included in her Chart to reinforce whatever Saturn reveals that requires reinforcing. Others look at what Saturn reveals and feel despair, because their Chart doesn't support the necessary work. I think it might be a case of blaming the messenger.
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Unread 03-06-2016, 05:46 PM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by Kitchy View Post
my bad attempt at humor?

"there is no such thing as a weak sign"

not meant to be a loaded statement. sorry.
Weakness, like Beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
In the case of the ability to eliminate, or compensate for, the weaknesses revealed (in no uncertain terms!) by Saturn, it's really the Aspects and Houses, not the Signs, that make the difference.[IMO]
Here's one for you--how about a Zodiac Sign pecking order! lol Watch out for those head-butters; and that guy running around on four legs with a bow and arrow! Oh, and sharks and barracudas are included in the fish category!

Last edited by david starling; 03-06-2016 at 06:14 PM.
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Unread 03-06-2016, 06:01 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

You didn't get Kitchy's joke?

You're slipping my piscean friend
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Unread 03-06-2016, 06:05 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

I have Mars 0'46 retro Cancer. I have been told by so many astrologers that my natal Mars is ineffectual - weak - in terms of Mars-ness. Perhaps it is because of my Mars ruled MC that I refuse to believe it.
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