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  #1  
Unread 03-03-2016, 08:47 PM
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Weak Signs

Thought this would be an interesting topic to start.

There has been countless threads about which sign is the strongest, toughest, baddest, sexiest and so on. And as expected, people are quick to give the reasons why their sign fits the bill. I think this has been done to death.

However, no one would ever want to be viewed as weak right? Yet, it's logical to think that if there are strong signs then there must be weak signs. I'd be interested to hear your opinions on the matter.

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Unread 03-03-2016, 09:05 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

Let me throw the first stone, Sagittarius is weak as ****.
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Unread 03-03-2016, 09:39 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

Ok, I get that this is a "chat" board, but honestly-- is there a point to reverting to simplistic sun-sign astrology? Whatever happened to reading the chart as a whole? No sign is intrinsically strong or weak. It is made so by the planets in it (or the lack thereof,) and by its position amidst the house cusps.

Just for example, as the mutable water sign, we might see Pisces as "weak" but if someone has Pisces in the 10th house with the MC, sun and Jupiter (domiciled) there, with Jupiter trining the (domiciled) moon in Cancer, Mr. Pisces has a lot of strength in this situation. Much more so than the sun intercepted in Scorpio (fixed water) in the 12th house.

You get the picture.
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Unread 03-03-2016, 11:28 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

I see the mutable signs being pegged as 'weak', quite often. But I am not sure how valid that is.

I have a very close family member with the Sun in Gemini, Sag rising, and Jupiter, her chart ruler, in Virgo conjunct the MC. But she is not a weak person at all. She is indecisive and sometimes anxious. But not weak. Just sometimes overwhelmed by her own pervasive thought processes.


But if i need to talk to someone to help me think things through, she is perfect. She rationally and logically follows it all through, step by step, to see the most logical solution.
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Unread 03-03-2016, 11:55 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Ok, I get that this is a "chat" board, but honestly-- is there a point to reverting to simplistic sun-sign astrology? Whatever happened to reading the chart as a whole? No sign is intrinsically strong or weak. It is made so by the planets in it (or the lack thereof,) and by its position amidst the house cusps.

Just for example, as the mutable water sign, we might see Pisces as "weak" but if someone has Pisces in the 10th house with the MC, sun and Jupiter (domiciled) there, with Jupiter trining the (domiciled) moon in Cancer, Mr. Pisces has a lot of strength in this situation. Much more so than the sun intercepted in Scorpio (fixed water) in the 12th house.

You get the picture.
Funny, I was going to add to my Op this line : "I know this is Pop but since this is chat I'm not planning to get any super serious discussion."

The whole chart argument nukes just about every "single point/aspect" thread and it's such a safe and easy response. plus it doesn't have to be the sun sign, but the sign as a pure archetype can be discussed.
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Unread 03-04-2016, 12:11 AM
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Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by katydid View Post
I see the mutable signs being pegged as 'weak', quite often. But I am not sure how valid that is.

I have a very close family member with the Sun in Gemini, Sag rising, and Jupiter, her chart ruler, in Virgo conjunct the MC. But she is not a weak person at all. She is indecisive and sometimes anxious. But not weak. Just sometimes overwhelmed by her own pervasive thought processes.


But if i need to talk to someone to help me think things through, she is perfect. She rationally and logically follows it all through, step by step, to see the most logical solution.
I've heard that about the mutable signs as well. The whole double-bodied and wavering aspect to them don't lend itself well to the "robustness" that we get with the fixed or the "swiftness" of the cardinals.


Interesting story about your family member. I've known some overly anxious and fearful people refer to themselves as lacking strength to cope with everyday reality, finding it very hard to do what seems to come 'effortlessly' to most. Indecision and anxiousness aren't things you associate with strength though and someone who is not as thoughtful as you would probably look at a person like your family member and deem her as "weak". Which probably would bring us to ask ourselves what exactly we mean by the term "weakness".
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Unread 03-04-2016, 12:36 AM
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Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
I've heard that about the mutable signs as well. The whole double-bodied and wavering aspect to them don't lend itself well to the "robustness" that we get with the fixed or the "swiftness" of the cardinals.


Interesting story about your family member. I've known some overly anxious and fearful people refer to themselves as lacking strength to cope with everyday reality, finding it very hard to do what seems to come 'effortlessly' to most. Indecision and anxiousness aren't things you associate with strength though and someone who is not as thoughtful as you would probably look at a person like your family member and deem her as "weak". Which probably would bring us to ask ourselves what exactly we mean by the term "weakness".
But her Jupiter, chart ruler, is conjunct her MC. She is very talented and has a successful career in entertainment. So people don't really see her as weak. Maybe her Moon in aquarius helps her with that.

And she kind of hides her indecisveness. She has an agent and a manager so she is able to put things off while she privately and anxiously dwells upon the decision to be made.
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Unread 03-04-2016, 01:26 AM
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Re: Weak Signs

Whatever sign Waybread is because she sure told conspiracy theorist. LOL!
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Unread 03-04-2016, 01:59 AM
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Re: Weak Signs

I have Sun in Pisces (conjunct Venus, square Moon, trine Pluto, sextile Saturn) and I will be the first to say that Pisces is a weak sign, in the sense of not having a strong sense of self, lacking clarity, lacking will, and lacking energy. Anywhere you find in Pisces in the chart, you will note these traits. Of course I have stronger signs to make up for it, but my Sun (and Venus) is definitely not the sturdiest part and I have to call on other parts at times when my Sun is too scared.

Every sign has its purpose, and Pisces was never meant to be strong in the way Leo or Capricorn might be. Pisces is strong in intuition, empathy, creativity, imagination, and true understanding, something other signs sorely lack.
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Unread 03-04-2016, 02:01 AM
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Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by Bunraku View Post
Whatever sign Waybread is because she sure told conspiracy theorist. LOL!
I'm not following.
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Unread 03-04-2016, 09:49 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

I've heard all the talk about weak signs and whatnot. I think most of it is driven by ego.

Mutable signs, imo, have great strength since they have the power to adapt and after all, if one cannot adapt in life, they will die out. Fixed signs(which are known as strong) have trouble with this.

The worst sign is Cancer though man. Cardinal water? Super emotions? Bah, needless, worthless Sun sign. Glad they named a killer disease after it, what a waste of space.
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Unread 03-04-2016, 09:55 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

I'm an Aquarian, and proud of it. There's no sun-sign I'd rather be.
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Unread 03-04-2016, 11:22 PM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
I've heard all the talk about weak signs and whatnot. I think most of it is driven by ego.

Mutable signs, imo, have great strength since they have the power to adapt and after all, if one cannot adapt in life, they will die out. Fixed signs(which are known as strong) have trouble with this.

The worst sign is Cancer though man. Cardinal water? Super emotions? Bah, needless, worthless Sun sign. Glad they named a killer disease after it, what a waste of space.
{We are all Wayfarers on the Road of Life}

Like I've been sayin, it's the Age of Tropical Capricorn, here on Planet Earth. That's our Astrological environment in the Material, Temporal sense. And, the Environment determines "weakness" and "strength". So of COURSE the Sign opposite the environmental Sign has qualities not useful to coping with the current situation we're all in. Barefoot in an Age best suited to steel-toed boots. Notice that in addition to that "disease thing" tagged to the name of the 4th Sign, we've got "lunacy" and "lunatic" tagged to its Ruler. In this Age, SATURN RULES, and strength and weakness is judged on that basis. The 4th Sign will be the chief beneficiary of the AofA, which (contrary to popular opinion) hasn't started yet[In My Well-Considered Opinion].



the chief beneficiary of the
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Unread 03-04-2016, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waybread View Post
Ok, I get that this is a "chat" board, but honestly-- is there a point to reverting to simplistic sun-sign astrology? Whatever happened to reading the chart as a whole? No sign is intrinsically strong or weak. It is made so by the planets in it (or the lack thereof,) and by its position amidst the house cusps.

Just for example, as the mutable water sign, we might see Pisces as "weak" but if someone has Pisces in the 10th house with the MC, sun and Jupiter (domiciled) there, with Jupiter trining the (domiciled) moon in Cancer, Mr. Pisces has a lot of strength in this situation. Much more so than the sun intercepted in Scorpio (fixed water) in the 12th house.

You get the picture.
Exactly. This thread is far too simplistic.
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Unread 03-04-2016, 11:39 PM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

c.t. is O.P., so I'll define AofA Rulership as Day-Saturn, and advance the proposition that the contrast between this Capricornian Age's Rulership by NIGHT-Saturn, and the AofA's by DAY-Saturn will be "As different as.....".
For Modernists, it's on-beyond-Saturn to Uranian Rulership. [IMO]

Last edited by david starling; 03-04-2016 at 11:49 PM.
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Unread 03-04-2016, 11:42 PM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by duenderoja View Post
Exactly. This thread is far too simplistic.
And yet, profound as well [IMO]
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Unread 03-04-2016, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
And yet, profound as well [IMO]
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Unread 03-04-2016, 11:46 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by Blaze View Post
I've heard all the talk about weak signs and whatnot. I think most of it is driven by ego.

Mutable signs, imo, have great strength since they have the power to adapt and after all, if one cannot adapt in life, they will die out. Fixed signs(which are known as strong) have trouble with this.

The worst sign is Cancer though man. Cardinal water? Super emotions? Bah, needless, worthless Sun sign. Glad they named a killer disease after it, what a waste of space.
Nah m8, it's not as weak as Sagittarius. I mean its so pitiful that they has to attach two different species so it could function. THAT "sign" should have been the one called a deadly illness IMO.
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Unread 03-04-2016, 11:48 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

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Exactly. This thread is far too simplistic.
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Unread 03-04-2016, 11:50 PM
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Re: Weak Signs

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
C.t. is O.P., so I'll define AofA Rulership as Day-Saturn, and advance the proposition that the contrast between this Capricornian Age's Rulership by NIGHT-Saturn, and the AofA's by DAY-Saturn will be "As different as.....".
For Modernists, it's on-beyond-Saturn to Uranian Rulership. [IMO]
In your always well considered opinions, how does Day Saturn manifest differently from Night Saturn?
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Unread 03-05-2016, 12:38 AM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

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In your always well considered opinions, how does Day Saturn manifest differently from Night Saturn?
Night-Saturn, AS AN AGE RULER: Promotes Male domination, extinction of species, death, disease, war, starvation, slavery and enslavement, greed, cruelty, and the inevitability of ultimate failure in a battle to survive. But, hey, picky, picky, picky...

Day-Saturn, AS AN AGE RULER: The diametrical opposite--just think Rhea and Ops versus their husbands, Cronus and Saturn. A possible name-change to go along with the gender-change: Saturnia.
So, to answer your question, as an Age Ruler, Day-Saturn will manifest in a MUCH kinder, gentler Terrestrial environment, physically, mentally and emotionally, wherein the 4th Sign will be one of the best acclimated. [IMO] Of course, some Signs might find it namby-pandy. Can't please everyone. Not enough Smiting for some!

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Unread 03-05-2016, 01:14 AM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

Btw, I wouldn't take that "man/beast" symbolism too seriously. In the context of the Western, Tropical Ages, it just represents the Age of Sagittarius as being equestrian. It was a very high-energy, visionary Age ruled by Zeus/Jupiter and his son Apollo. These Tropical Ages are direct, so it's the Phoenix and Osiris/Pluto for Ancient Egypt and the Age of Scorpio. Or, if you prefer, Night-Mars as Age-Ruler.
To keep this on-Thread, different Signs are best acclimated to different Ages. [IMO]
Actually, it's more correct to say "different Charts"; a "weak" Chart in one Age is a "strong" Chart in another.

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Unread 03-05-2016, 01:48 AM
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Re: Weak Signs

I was horsing around about Sagittarius. They're cool with me, honest.


The Capricorn age sounds dismal but I can see how it "works" in our present day situation.

I hear some refer to this period as the kali yuga, the worst age for spiritual advancement. With the absence of light (Sun) and the supremacy of Saturn and Mars (who exalts in Capricorn), Sin may have free reign to shape and deform us in all areas of human life. With Saturn we have oppression and ignorance through fear and "lack of faith" -- a lot of people feel there is no God/ Spiritual reality beyond the purely physical and with Mars we have the will to power and all the competitions and War that people lament and simultaneously can't get enough of.

This age beyond the supremacy of Matter over Spirit may mean that this age may bring immense progress in the way of technology and super-structures that characterize our development. Our tall skyscrapers, our airplanes and spaceships that allow us to leave the Earth's atmosphere and explore the stars (Interestingly, Saturn is the last before the sphere of the fixed stars -- speaking of traditional lore of course). This advancement in our technology doesn't seem to fulfill the inner craving for the divine that I think all humans possess; so what is done to fulfill that void? Many turn to the chasing of Material Success which never satisfies as it neglects that other part of what makes us human - the spirit.

I'm vibing here as I find your idea that this is actually the Capricorn age interesting.

I have some more questions -- If the sun is inoperative (NIGHT- Saturn) could this really be an age of "Male supremacy"? and why do you suppose that the Aquarian Age will shift into being female- centric? I'd also be interested to know why Cancer (as the archtype) would enjoy the Aquarian age (where traditionally they have nothing in common).
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  #24  
Unread 03-05-2016, 03:56 AM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

The beginning of this Age around 400AD gives historians a sense of Darkness. Religions now exist like lanterns and torches to keep the Light, so obvious during the Age of Sagittarius, alive in our hearts. Astrology may not be a religion, but it performs the same role. The male domination of this Age is fear-inspired, as is the characterization of Saturn as the evil, extremely powerful being known as Satan. Big, strong men, afraid of the dark! Who knew!? But Capricorn, the cleverist of Age-signs when it comes to technology, has gone lanterns and torches one better--Modern Science and technology, chasing away the Darkness with electricity and shifting consciousness to concentration on the Material Plane. The Aquarian gylph isn't about electricity, it's about Thought waves. Control THOSE, under the aegis of Day-Saturn, when the fear now caused by Night-Saturn has faded, and the Light again becomes directly available, and Technology becomes auxiliary and secondary to our own human mental abilities.
The Aquarian glyph is also about Water, as the word AQUArius implies. While it's an Air-Sign, a Sign of Thought, it carries and pours out Water (Emotion); and the Water that will be most valued during the AofA will be that of the 4th Sign.
c.t., as a fellow denizen of the 12th House you might see why I've personally changed the name of the 4th Sign to "Mer", symbolized by a mermaid--fits perfectly! [IMO, of course]

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Unread 03-05-2016, 04:55 AM
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Smile Re: Weak Signs

If I may, I'd like to take the Onus off of Saturn, for people, such as Kitchy and Duenderoja, who view Saturn as an ally in their Charts. The Saturnian vibration itself isn't to blame. It's like fire--use it well and it's extremely useful, even life-saving. But to those who can't process it properly, for whatever reason, it's like fire out of control--explosive and deadly. Especially in combination with improper processing of the vibration of Mars. The problem for all of us is, those types have used their affliction to gain dominion over the planet using Capricornian-Age technology that was meant for the benefit of civilization. The gross misuse of this Age's Saturnian Rulership and Capricornian Age technological ability is a human failing and shouldn't be blamed on Saturn or Capricorn. "The 'Devil' made them do it" doesn't cut it in my book.

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