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  #1  
Unread 02-16-2008, 01:31 AM
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Venus square Saturn

hi I have just joined this site and have spent the evening avidly reading through many of the wonderful threads on the site. I wonder if I could reopen the discussion about Venus square Saturn. After many years of self analysis and healing I have returned to this placement with an awareness that it is at the crux of every problem I have. I am interested to hear how others with this placement have worked through it or transformed its action in their lives.
My Saturn is in Leo 2nd square Venus Scorpio end of 4th (I interpret as 5th).
ultimately my astrological map, my childhood and the life I have since created have held an ongoing theme of lonliness, sadness and that I am never going to be good enough or lovable. In relationships thisbrings out a needy, mistrustful, over defensive streak. There are positive aspects to my self and my life but this underlying theme has devastated my intimate relationships and interferes with my ability to consciously create the life I desire. Neptune is currently squaring my Venus and opposing my Saturn, activating the placement in my awareness but also confusing me. I know this issue is about self worth but I was raised within a family that was disfunctional, touch was near enough banned, i was a lonely only child, dad left one day and never heard from him again, i never felt loved and the message I got was 'do better'. The message i took from all this wss 'i'm not good enough'. If i have never perceived that i am truly loved (lovable) how can I ever truly know what it is to love myself? I thought I did love myself but my previous relationships have shown me that I'm still amillion miles of target. My esteem crashes in a relationship because i dont belive they love me. I compare myself to everyone around and feel inferior next to them, then i mistrust him thinking he is after every other woman. Its so unhealthy I know but there seems to be nothing I can do about it save taking my boyfriend to an island uninhabited by other women!!
This isn't a 'therapy' website but I would really appreciate hearing positive ways of coping with this extremly difficult aspect. How many of you are in loving healthy relationships? If you felt like this before, what did you do to improve your selfesteem? (PLs excuse any poor readability as I have typed this MSG on my phone and can't see what I'm writing!)
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Unread 02-16-2008, 02:08 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Some old philosopher said 'the stars incline, they do not compel' or some such thing....

You make your own life - irrespective of astrology - don't look at your star chart (or indeed your upbringing) to set the course of your future.

Astrology should give you positive guidance, not set limits on you.

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Unread 02-13-2009, 07:42 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by sallyd
Some old philosopher said 'the stars incline, they do not compel' or some such thing....

You make your own life - irrespective of astrology - don't look at your star chart (or indeed your upbringing) to set the course of your future.

Astrology should give you positive guidance, not set limits on you.

The stars impel they do not compel is the saying. HOwever a Saturn Venus connection is one of feeling unlovable and not being very sociable. It comes from a fear of not being attractive or good enough. HOwever sometimes an older person can give you the confidence to blossom and this aspect can indicate an enduring love that is based on practical matters and
a sense of loyalty. It is not the fairytale romance aspect, that is for sure.
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Unread 02-13-2009, 09:13 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

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Originally Posted by Claire19
The stars impel they do not compel is the saying. HOwever a Saturn Venus connection is one of feeling unlovable and not being very sociable. It comes from a fear of not being attractive or good enough. HOwever sometimes an older person can give you the confidence to blossom and this aspect can indicate an enduring love that is based on practical matters and a sense of loyalty.
I think there is even more hope than that. I agree that Saturn/Venus, hard aspects are linked to just what you said, at least quite often—not feeling worthy, not feeling loved, and so on.

But for those of us who get beyond this, I also think we have a lot to teach other people about having more confidence, looking beyond it, etc.

Which was my point. I also like the idea of finding "enduring love", because that's the flip side of Saturn. You have to wait longer, but often what you wait for is worth the waiting.
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Unread 02-14-2009, 10:10 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

I have a stellium in Virgo, squared by Saturn. I've been married twice. I do not have low self esteem, in fact, at an early age when my parents would tell me "you are fat, stupid and ugly, no man will ever love you" (yes, they said that, in an effort to "toughen me up" - that's Saturn for you!) I would look at them and *know* they were crazy. I have, however, loved emotionally unavailable men, but at my age of 50 I sometimes wonder if I hadn't expected too much. I am not lonely, I don't cry in isolation. I have good friends and I feel loved, even though I am not in a personal relationship. Go figure. Plus, the Virgo stellium (Pluto, Merc, Venus, Sun) is in the 5th/6th house, with the sun being the ruler of my 5th. I go out dancing often and have fun. I will say that Saturn has taught me to live a life of INTEGRITY at all costs. There's no fooling Saturn, I can't lie, or cheat, or deceive without paying a huge price, mostly because my Virgo self beats me up. I also have Moon/Nep/Jup in Scorp in the 7th.

I guess if I had to pinpoint where "low self esteem" lives, it may be because I have never had a man in my life who was highly successful. Most of the men were struggling financially, and often were spiritually bankrupt. Again, I had to learn not to take on their financial struggles or expect more from them spiritually then they had showed themselves capable of. Leaving people to themselves is one of the hardest lessons.

I have 2 children. One has Venus trine Saturn. She is a cold person. Aquarian Sun, now 28 years old. I once read somewhere that the low form of Aquarius can behave atrociously and justify it all. My daughter personifies that. She has a grand air trine (moon, saturn, venus) and completely detaches from emotion. No earth in her chart except Chiron in Taurus.

My son, who is 12, is a Cancer. He has a grand square of Venus in 10th opposite Neptune, squaring Chiron in 1st and Saturn in 7th. Yeeee-ouch!!
No earth in his chart either.

Here's what I noticed about my son: He "sets up" Saturn. Example: We are eating dinner. At his age, even though we've had this discussion many times, he will get out of his chair and try to hug me while we're eating. He knows that I have a boundary about that (Cancers need boundaries, otherwise he'd be like a baby kangaroo wanting to be in my pouch all day...). Then he pouts because I won't hug him then and there. When he does things like that I call him on it tell him that he's inviting rejection and that one of the things he'll have to learn is how to better "read" people and when they are available to giving him the love he desires - that it can't be an "on DEMAND" thing. That his chart shows that he will seek out rejection until and unless he realizes that seeks it out in order to teach him to love himself deeply without the need for another person to make him feel loved - which wouldn't work anyway, because......

When I look at him right in the eye during sincere, quiet moments, and tell him that I think he's a really cool kid and that ***I am proud to be his mother***--- he cries. Just wells up and cries. Looking at him directly and expressing love brings up his Saturn stuff like nothing else. I happen to believe that Chiron is wounds from other lifetimes, cellular memory stuff that gets reinacted in this lifetime, and I can really see that when he cries over simply being LOVED. If I am not looking at him and tell him I love him he doesn't react the same way. It's the direct contact that gets him. Also, I have tried to teach him deep breathing techniques because he can be anxiety prone (a Cancer anxious?? Nooooo!!). The first few times I tried to get him to breathe deeply... he cried. The deep breaths brought up something very painful for him, and since he has not had a traumatic childhood by any stretch of the imagination, I can only assume it's past life stuff. But, the depths of Cancer's feelings are unfathomable. He does have Moon/Jupiter in Aquarius in the 5th so it helps him not to succumb entirely to the Watery elements.

Anyway, I just thought it interesting to watch a Saturn/Venus person grow up, knowing what I know about astrology. When I saw his chart 1 day after he was born I nearly cried, because it is not such a great chart, shows suffering. So I have tried to mitigate this as much as possible. He knows a little about his chart but not much because I don't want to set him up to think he is "destined" for misery. Like I said, I have the Virgo planets square Saturn, and I have not been miserable. I have Moon square Chiron too, so I do know about the exquisite sensitivies of Chiron. One day I will teach him more about astrology (he wants so badly to learn!) but I just can't bring myself to do it just yet.

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Unread 02-09-2010, 01:16 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by sallyd View Post
Some old philosopher said 'the stars incline, they do not compel' or some such thing....

You make your own life - irrespective of astrology - don't look at your star chart (or indeed your upbringing) to set the course of your future.

Astrology should give you positive guidance, not set limits on you.

"The stars impel they do not compel"

I think upbringing is very important and we need to recognise what the problems are and from where they stem. It is true that the charts are us, we are not the charts...... however the natal chart does show what influences are at play and what we have come here to learn and karma to balance. THe squares for instance are areas for growth and progress and without them we dont really deepen our character.
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Unread 05-07-2010, 02:23 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by sallyd View Post
Some old philosopher said 'the stars incline, they do not compel' or some such thing....

You make your own life - irrespective of astrology - don't look at your star chart (or indeed your upbringing) to set the course of your future.

Astrology should give you positive guidance, not set limits on you.

The stars impel, they do not compel. The more aware we are the less we are influenced by our charts in a negative way.

The natal chart does give a general outline of why we are here and who we are, there is no doubt. It is meant to give understanding and guidance and how we are to grow. I dont believe in feeling enslaved by it or feeling fated and powerless. I do believe some things are fated but it is how we handle it all that counts.
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Unread 02-17-2008, 08:29 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Venus square saturn along with a couple other aspects which also work on the self-esteem theme) are reflective of a conflict I experience and I am seeking ways to deal with the energies in a healthier way.

Whilst astrology is an incredible way of seeing how our energies are working and for identifying particular issues, it isn't always easy to see objectiively what we can do to bring disharmonious energies into balance because these things operate at such a fundamental level that we may not see or know another way. Whilst time and experience may be the only way of working things out, I like to think that there are things we can do to make the best of these energies. I may be very wrong. Perhaps it is simply about accepting what we are - accepting our shadow.
I was hoping to explore how the aspect (or similar aspects) have manifested in the lives of other people here and it would be great to hear positive stories of people who have come to integrate the energies in a positive way.

Returning to the previous thread which has now been closed on this site, I have quoted below a post from Shining Ray and their quote from Liz Greenes, Saturn a new look at an old devil, because it very much resonates with the experience I have of the aspect.


Re: Venus and Saturn
I have had two partners who both had the Venus/Saturn aspect one had Venus in Aries in opposition to Saturn in Libra. My current partner has Venus in Libra square Saturn in Cancer. I have a minor aspect, I have Venus in Capricorn semi-square Saturn in Virgo on my Asc. The low self worth is present in both of them, they find it difficult to see what is lovable about themselves. Whatever Saturn touches in the chart does take a longer time to grow and develop and for Venus/Saturn sometimes love comes later on in life, it doesn't have to mean death of a partner it can mean a seperation but who hasn't suffered one broken relationship at least.

With Venus/Saturn, it depends on your experiences from a young age, on how the aspect will manifest obviously if you grew up in a very unloving background, by having Venus in aspect to Saturn you will feel very unloved, as their is an expectation from birth that you will be rejected or unwanted. Another child with the same aspect can grow up in a more stable background, who will still have feelings of low self worth but it is not compounded by a completely cold childhood. Aspects are dimensional, and depending on the chart as a whole the experience of this aspect can be felt at different levels. A Water chart person who needs close bonds, and emotional relationships will have more of a difficult time with this aspect, but maybe it helps to ground the emotions and therefore a more cautious, careful, and mature response to love is helpful to a person whose emotions could overwhelm them too much, only the owner of the aspect can describe it from their own experience. As has been said the whole chart needs to be examined, some charts support Venus/Saturn aspects better than others.

Here is Liz Greene's interpretation of the aspect, although I might have posted this before. Here is again anyway.

Quote:
~ Saturn in aspect to Venus ~


" A New Look At An Old Devil " .. by Liz Greene

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Saturn-A New Look at an Old Devil by Liz Greene - tribe.net

Saturnian contacts to Venus, when they occur in the charts of those who are not predisposed towards introspection or self-understanding, are some of the most painful contacts to deal with. This is particularly true for the charts of women. In both men's and women's charts one of the traditional interpretations , which seems to be accurate enough, is that of failure or sorrow in marriage and in love with a subsequent residue of disillusionment, bitterness, fear, and a great sensitivity to rejection which colours all successive romantic encounters with a certain aloofness and mistrust.





[copyright/plagiarism. Parts deleted and replaced by link. Moderator.]

Last edited by Shining Ray : 11-04-2007 at 05:15 PM.

Last edited by starlink; 02-08-2010 at 01:55 PM.
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Unread 02-17-2008, 09:02 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

I know this is not the topic of this thread, but what signs are your natal Sun and Ascendants located in?

I ask because I tend to associate issues with self-esteem and self-love to the first house as well as the Sun, and I was wondering if Venus is the ruler of your Ascendant, the dispositor of your Sun, or forms a tight aspect with the Sun.

I too possess the Venus square Saturn aspect natally, and Venus is sandwiched between my natal Sun and Mercury within a degree; my natal Saturn-Neptune conjunction, which also has an orb of slightly more than a degree, squares this triple conjunction, which is located in my first house in Aries. Therefore, I understand the difficulties you have expressed in your first message about not feeling "good enough" or "worthy enough" of another's love and affection, but you must remember that true, healthy love--the kind of love you are seeking--cannot be earned or won, but is freely given. Additionally, one of the main lessons I have learned with this aspect and others related to it is that one must first love oneself before one can possess the ability to love others.

You may have heard of the Law of Attraction, more popularly known as the Secret in the bestselling book, and may already know that the energies you send out into the universe are precisely the energies you will receive. This can be either a joyous or an excruciatingly difficult lesson to learn, yet Saturn is a difficult teacher who is unsympathetic to excuses although he truly has your best intentions at heart. I have read that Saturn cannot affect "you" because "you" are not bound to the physical plane which Saturn rules; however, Saturn certainly can and does damage the mask you have created for yourself, the web of lies you may have been told about yourself throughout your life that you are limited, that this life is the only one that exists, that you are the victim of a cruel and hapless fate. You have the free choice to believe in this if you choose, but I can tell you from experience that this path only leads to sorrow.

It is easy to believe, especially when one possesses difficult aspects between Venus and Saturn, that you can only be fulfilled by the love of another individual. Unfortunately, women in particular have been conditioned in western society to believe in this fantasy, in this lie. The truth is that you do not need anyone and you certainly cannot depend upon anyone but yourself to create your own happiness. Don't misinterpret me here; I am not saying that you should completely forgo relationships and accept that you must live your life alone. This is not true at all, for for all my cynicism I still believe that one can share and receive happiness from another and a healthy relationship has the potential to expound upon the happiness that either one can create alone. However, you must first be in possession of this happiness in order to attract another of like energy, for this is the basis of the Law of Attraction. If you continually wait for another to create happiness for you, you will have a long wait indeed because this is impossible; only you can create your own happiness, although it is possible to create your own happiness in the presence of another while he or she is doing the same. There is a fine line, however, between creating your own happinesses with another and depending upon him or her to create your happiness for you.

As difficult as it is, you must abandon self-pity because it cannot serve you in attaining what you seek. I am not talking down to you or admonishing you; I am not "holier than thou" in my advice because I am still in the process of overcoming pity myself. It's just that I could feel my own energy and consciousness in your words, and I do not want to you experience the path I chose for myself, which sounds quite similar to your own. As others have mentioned here, you are not your natal chart; your natal chart indicates potentials, but it does not demand that you think in behave in a certain matter, although if you do not take conscious direction of your life, you will reenact the energies of your natal chart in your life through your own experiences or that of others. Goodness, I feel like I'm almost embodying the energy of Saturn here; I am not usually so forthright and direct in my posts, although again, the potential exists in my natal chart. Remember, though, that it is possible to transcend the energies of your natal chart through one's will.

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Last edited by Arian Maverick; 02-17-2008 at 09:14 PM.
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Unread 02-17-2008, 10:31 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Thank you Arian. I agree entirely with what you say. I don't mean to sound at all 'self-pitiful'. This is just one aspect of the great walking talking bundle of consciousness that I am! Because I am focusing in on this one issue, for the purposes of discussion it can appear as though that is all I see. However it is only because I have just come out of a relationship which brought all these issues to my awareness that they are at the forefront of my mind. Previously I had been single for some time and so was not really confronted by some of the difficult emotions that can arise. I was in a very good place prior to the relationship, I thought I had made developments in my self-esteem and had, as a result of this, attracted a positive relationship into my life. But as the relationship progressed, my self-esteem gradually declined and next thing I know I'm in a pretty rubbish place and have to start all over again to raise my confidence and faith in myself. It seems this happens in all my relationships and it completely baffles me how quickly I can fall apart! It seems I am better on my own yet I can't eliminate the natural human urge to want someone special to love and to share life with. I don't want to overcompensate or to deny relationships in my life so I need to do something about this awful tendency I have! As Coffee said, there may not be much more that astrology can do here, I may need to explore this issue further with counselling or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arian Maverick
As others have mentioned here, you are not your natal chart; your natal chart indicates potentials, but it does not demand that you think in behave in a certain matter, although if you do not take conscious direction of your life, you will reenact the energies of your natal chart in your life through your own experiences or that of others.
Can you clarify what you mean by conscious direction please Arian?
Back to your first question, yes the dispositor of my sun is venus. I have attached my chart for your info. ther conributers I would say are my cancer ascendant (which can make me ultra sensitive/defensive sometimes), Pluto conjuunct Sun and mercury and off course transiting neptune (sq venus, opp sat). I would be glad for any input that could help me explore this further.
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Unread 02-17-2008, 10:42 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Quote:
Can you clarify what you mean by conscious direction please Arian?
Sure thing

I'm not sure if you are familiar with the Abraham teachings, but I was borrowing an idea expressed in several of Abrahams books discussing the Law of Attraction that human beings can create in one of two ways: consciously or subconsciously. I don't want to derail this thread too much with talk about conscious manifestation and such, but what I meant by this statement was that we are all creating all of the time, so it's never a matter of not knowing how. Rather, conscious manifestation is a matter of taking ownership of one's life and steering the ship rather than allowing the ship to steer you, using the metaphor of a ship on the ocean. Of course, you can either steer with or against the current, but this is another discussion.

Quote:
I have attached my chart for your info. ther conributers I would say are my cancer ascendant (which can make me ultra sensitive/defensive sometimes)
Another amazing thing I have found about the forums and about life in general is how members are often attracted to those members and threads they most resonate with. Again, I don't want to derail this thread too much, but I can relate to the sensitivity of your Cancer Ascendant even though I possess a different Ascendant sign; my natal Moon is in my first house conjunct my Ascendant within four degrees or so.

I will look at your natal chart and see what else it may reveal.

Quote:
AM, it seems there are several of us with Venus-Saturn H1 aspects here lately. You're helping more of us than you know.
I had submitted this post before I read your reply, and your encouragement has only strengthened my belief that this forum is highly karmic. Thank you, autumnleaf; we all help each other by sharing our personal experiences

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Last edited by Arian Maverick; 02-17-2008 at 10:44 PM.
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Unread 06-08-2008, 02:02 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by spacecadet
..I would be glad for any input that could help me explore this further.many thanks
Hi Spacecadet,
I've seen this thread much after some very useful advice has already been given to you by the generous community here.

Btw, after briefly studying your chart in my own astro-sofware, in my opinion, and I might well be surprising you now, your Saturn does not really form a tight square to your Venus. In fact, I feel you have a great chart with positive aspects and configs. dominating the chart, and a golden grand trine going out from your MC- your highest point, and involving your Venus.

Had I seen this thread earlier, I too would have mostly said all that Arian Maverick pointed out in her post. However, let me just add - out of my very own personal experience at the hands of tight Saturn aspects in my chart to Moon, Venus, Mars and Pluto (can it get worse!!! perhaps yes) - a person with Saturnian shadows can only get stronger and the key to that is trust in and love of oneself (don't confuse this with narcissism). A pleasant childhood and immense parental love and encouragement did give me a major portion of self-confidence, and as a believer in astrology, I would say, helped me fight those Saturnian shadows, yet I am only just beginning to understand *the importance of seeking the recognition and confirmation for my deeds and my very being mainly from within my own self and not from the outside - from others.* This is the important Saturnian lesson that we must learn in this life in order to understand our own worth and our place on this planet, and not o let our own insecurities overpower ourselves. I guess that is why in Indian astrology (which is far ahead of and much older than western astrology) they call Saturn the great karmic teacher. Saturn, perhaps usually through hardships and suffering, is the one that provides you with the answers to all those questions of 'why' and 'why me'. The answers usually lie within ourselves.

Checked on your transits, and I think, Neptune aspecting your Venus and Saturn is causing disillusionment and disappointments, which makes one question oneself and one's own worth. I would say that even though things connencted to self-worth and self-love might be your (main) issues in life - until those lessons are learned - this whole issue has been brought to the surface by the Neptune transit - but this is temporary- a transitionary phase. Just believe in yourself and remember that not only nobody has the right to judge you, but also nobody can be the yardstick for comparison. I'm only also just beginning to understand and practise this myself.

I hope you do not take my note above to be a preaching session, as it wasn't meant to be one.

Hope I could help a bit
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Unread 02-17-2008, 10:42 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

AM, it seems there are several of us with Venus-Saturn H1 aspects here lately. You're helping more of us than you know.
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Unread 11-21-2011, 05:30 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arian Maverick View Post
You may have heard of the Law of Attraction, Arian Maverick
i too have Venus square Saturn [it is not a rare aspect] between Leo and Scorpio...after years of trying to cope with the subconscious inner conflicts as well as the financial hardships, I have finally learned that indeed true change must come from within rather than from without...what is required is a change of perspective and attitude, as well as developing a new faith and trust in the self [via the divine connection] and the willingness to see ourselves objectively and to forgive that inner self that keeps us feeling weak, unworthy or lonely.

Venus indeed is a large part of the Law of attraction and I consider that it also relates to 'expectations'...too often we hold unrealistic expectations and find ourselves remaining disappointed and frustrated when we feel we are not being given what we deserve...

Great posts, all!
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Unread 11-21-2011, 06:52 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Yeah but I have been blessed with a lot of stuff including my university being payed for me.. my downfall is being vain, like if I gain some weight nothing else in the world matters besides that. I am getting over that horrible mentality.

A good song for all my venus square saturn peeps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-J7J_IWUhls&ob=av3e

I think it is about overcoming our own fears of love and finding the strength within to take a leap of faith, when someone worth it finally comes.

Last edited by Love2Know; 11-24-2011 at 06:55 AM.
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Unread 05-26-2008, 02:24 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

I always say, look at other aspects in your chart to boost you. This doesn't kill everything, and it doesn't confirm that you'll be a cold, loveless woman for the rest of your life. But if you expect that, and you don't reach out to others because you're too busy in defense of yourself, you won't get the love you desperately want. Remember, other people are struggling, too. Focus on comforting them.
Saturn is hard work. Expect it in the love area. Believe me. I have PLENTY of experience myself. Saturn rules me to the bone. You might wish you had those easy trines or sextiles, but they're no struggle. Struggle builds character, and character is fascinating.

Last edited by Hey; 05-26-2008 at 02:26 AM.
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Unread 05-26-2008, 02:44 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Well said Hey!!!
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Unread 05-26-2008, 02:57 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Thank you. Thank you.
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  #19  
Unread 04-12-2010, 12:50 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

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Originally Posted by Hey View Post
I always say, look at other aspects in your chart to boost you. This doesn't kill everything, and it doesn't confirm that you'll be a cold, loveless woman for the rest of your life. But if you expect that, and you don't reach out to others because you're too busy in defense of yourself, you won't get the love you desperately want. Remember, other people are struggling, too. Focus on comforting them.
Saturn is hard work. Expect it in the love area. Believe me. I have PLENTY of experience myself. Saturn rules me to the bone. You might wish you had those easy trines or sextiles, but they're no struggle. Struggle builds character, and character is fascinating.
Very well said and remember that Venus and Saturn can be connected with your finances too. You may be very frugal which may be of benefit to you. There can be other mitigating influences that are easier but without a chart cant say too much.

The danger of taking an aspect out of context is that it doesnt tell nearly the whole story.
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  #20  
Unread 04-12-2010, 02:59 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

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Originally Posted by Claire19 View Post
Very well said and remember that Venus and Saturn can be connected with your finances too. You may be very frugal which may be of benefit to you. There can be other mitigating influences that are easier but without a chart cant say too much.

The danger of taking an aspect out of context is that it doesnt tell nearly the whole story.
I have to take the other side on this. Hard Saturn aspects in my experience point to abuse and neglect in the native's history. Some people say one should just be positive, etc, because they have a strong jupiter / neptune and they are either positive / deluded and and/or simply just believe that point of view. I am always open to changing my views. In my experience, the most optimistic people are actually the most negative. They generally are acting happy and positive because they don't want to deal with their own negative emotions. I have seen this enough times to really pause and be skeptical when I read/hear a positive opinion.

Why am I saying all this? I have Mars square Jupiter/Saturn natally. I also have Mercury/Moon square Pluto natally, as well. I do not view astrology in a fatalistic way, though, I experience the person first, and see if the chart confirms my experience. Likewise I am willing to doubt and/or revise my view of interpretations as my experiences contradict them.

The reality is that people's brains literally change in response to their upbringing. People's bodies change in response to their upbringing, too, and telling a person with a hard Saturn aspect to be positive is like telling a 300lb woman that it's easy to lose weight. That's really a good analogy, too, because the amount of dedication and persistence it would take to lose 100+ lbs is equal to the amount of effort it would take to 'be positive' in each and every 'it could go either way' situation where one might be apathetic, standoffish, cold, etc, in the past, because of what they'd been through. It's nice that you all have had negative experiences, but I find that there is a lot of culture around 'sucking it up.'

I believe the right way to 'solve the problem' is to correct the beliefs that are causing the protective behaviors. An alternative way is to deal directly with the memories of abuse/neglect by talking, journaling, etc. A third alternative is the good fortune of having someone positive around for a very, very, long time (every day contact for several hours for 6 months or more) to 'learn' how to 'rewire' oneself and literally 'build positive muscles.' I wonder how many bodybuilders have a strong Saturn in their charts.

I certainly agree that I am generally frugal and have dealt with the consequences (good and bad) of living this way. I also agree that one should not judge a chart on one aspect. On the other hand, strong aspects to the personal planets generally affect a person on a daily basis. This has been my experience. Show me someone with a Mercury / Neptune square, (deluded thinking) a Sun / Mercury conjunction (usually very smart), or a Venus / Mars square (conflict in all relationships), and so-on...it's not so much that you'd judge the entire chart by this...but you also do not downplay the importance of an important aspect.

Anyway, in my view this thread is about 'hey I have this aspect and it *****, thoughts, opinions?' so ... there's mine
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  #21  
Unread 05-27-2008, 11:47 AM
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Thumbs up Re: Venus square Saturn

I would like to thank both Angel of Light and Hey had to say. Sums it up quite nicely. I personally struggle with being nice and loving to myself and accepting who I am and not worrying so much what others think.
Work on that self-worth because YOU are worth it!!!
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  #22  
Unread 05-28-2008, 01:19 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

SpaceCadet I wish I could give you a big hug. You have almost quoted word for word the kind of things my best friend (who doesn't practise astrology) says, she has this aspect and had struggled with this for years.

She has been in therapy for a long time, been signed off work with clinical depression at one point too but took up painting again which seems to help foster a little happiness. Ofcourse she fights not to let the critical little voice in her head nag about how the painting is perfect enough etc... but from what she tells me she works on ignoring it over and over and focus on joy of creating.

I know it is a zillion times so easy to say but please please don't compare yourself to other people. Smack yourself in the head with a sock or something when you catch yourself doing it!! I am sure you are a lovely person, it is often the sweetest people with tough aspects. Warm thoughts and wishes.
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  #23  
Unread 06-02-2008, 10:17 PM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Thankyou for that virtual hug Arianedreams. Most of the time this is a background issue that I just get on with (well, it can take me an unreasonable time to get ready to go out on a saturday night etc!! but i can live with it), its only in an intimate relationship that it really bites my head of and I can fall down hard. Until then, I am ok so don't you worry! I will remember your and Angel of Lights words next time I start comparing myself and give myself a good boot in the teeth.

And Hey, I really agree. I read a channelled writing a few weeks ago and they said (not in exact words)...'if you feel that no-one loves you in your life, look at how giving you are with your own love'. This struck a chord in me and I realised that, just as you said, my defenses have restricted my ability to share love and affection openly. I am going to work on being more affectionate whilst still maintaining boundaries.

Arianedreams, I hope your friend finds a way to raise her self esteem. I have to recommend EFT as a tool for dealing with issues of self-esteem - or others too (see www.emofree.com if you want more info). I use it extensively and its been an incredible help. Its very easy to learn and apply at home. (I should probably post this somewhere else on the site so that everyone can learn about it.) Ultimately though we all find out own route to healing - but the journey is so much easier when you have others from your tribe who give you that little extra kick or hug when you need it. Thanks all. xx
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Unread 06-03-2008, 12:06 AM
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Re: Venus square Saturn

I have read liz greens saturn/venus with my eyes wide.
She described my childhood and relationship problems with so much accuracy it was like she knew me!

Ive got a t square of

7H saturn square 4H venus square 1H moon

I used to wish i was adopted when i was about 10 because i could have understood why they didnt like me?
I get into relationships with all sorts of waifs and strays and most turn out to be abnormal in some way .... you only have to read my previous posts.
I dont actually feel as though ive ever loved anyone properly and I dont think anyones loved me. ( although I always fall madly in love with new beaus's for about 6 weeks then it just stops) <---if you know what i mean?

A fascinating read on this subject, thanks for explaining my lifes trials in such a readable way

think I will have to give up on men, and be an old spinster

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  #25  
Unread 06-03-2008, 12:25 AM
Neptune Rising Neptune Rising is offline
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Re: Venus square Saturn

Quote:
But if you expect that, and you don't reach out to others because you're too busy in defense of yourself, you won't get the love you desperately want. Remember, other people are struggling, too. Focus on comforting them.
Saturn is hard work. Expect it in the love area.
This is so true. I've got Saturn inconjunct Venus, and progressed Saturn exactly inconjunct Venus, I'm trying to get to grips with this lesson. Its true, the media ect protrays an image of an ideal - partner/relationship, and through not accepting that relationships can be hard work and are not fuzzy and romantic, I've had many bitter disapointments in love. Maybe Saturn/Venus shows how to be realistic in love, this is what I'm finding in my early 30s. Reaching out and giving out positivity is so important too, I am doing this more.

NR
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