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  #1  
Unread 11-25-2016, 01:53 PM
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Smile Uranus is a malefic

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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
I've actually seen Neptune be described as the most malefic out of the 3 outers and every time I hear stories about "outer planetary lives" Neptune always seemed to be the worst fate out of the bunch. Lies, rose coloured glasses, living in a bubble, fragility, inability to cope with reality, softly drifting into madness, hard drug addiction - a doozy. At least Pluto and Uranus seem to give their natives some toughness and agency, Neptune dissolves you into a defenseless raw nerve. No thanks Poseidon
Uranus is the most malefic of those three, on par with Saturn. Astrologers of the late 19th and early 20th centuries certainly considered Uranus malefic but all of this was forgotten somewhere down the line when Uranus became firmly associated with Aquarius, it seems.

Neptune can get better over time, becoming inspired and inspiring, though its nature is more compatible with certain planets and signs.

[Note: this thread on Uranus was created from a Chat thread at a Forum member's request - Moderator]


Last edited by wilsontc; 11-29-2016 at 03:17 PM.
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Unread 11-25-2016, 03:22 PM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

Zadkiel on Uranus
(posted before on horary section)

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Herschel
This is the most distant planet from the Sun his motion is very slow as he takes 83 years 151 days to go through the twelve signs. The nature of it is extremely evil. If he ascend or be with the chief significator in any figure he denotes an eccentric person far from fortunate always abrupt and often violent in his manners. If well aspected he gives sudden and unexpected benefits and if afflicted he will cause remarkable and unlooked for losses and misfortunes. He is not so powerful as Saturn or Mars yet can do much evil. Persons under his influence are partial to antiquity astrology & and all uncommon studies especially if Mercury and the Moon be in aspect to him. They are likely to strike out novelties and to be remarkable for an inventive faculty. They are generally unfortunate in marriage especially if he afflict Venus, the Moon, or the seventh house either in nativities or questions

Last edited by Bunraku; 11-25-2016 at 03:25 PM.
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Unread 11-25-2016, 03:34 PM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

Jeffrey Wolf Green (evolutionary astrologer) in his pamphlet, Uranus: Freedom from the Known. Definitely more recent than Zadkiel

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Uranus correlates to individuation, liberation, freedom, and deconditioning. Deconditioning from what? Deconditioning from Saturn. Saturn correlates to all the conditioning patterns of our life. the conditioning patterns of society, family, expectations of people in our lives, and the conditioning patterns relative to all the prior lives that you bring into this life....This means that Uranus is forever trying to shatter, revolutionize, liberate, or break free from all those conditioning patterns. What for? What is the intent? To what purpose? If we shatter all the conditioning patterns that define our sense of personality and identity then we can, at some point, arrive at our essential nature and identity that is unconditioned.
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Unread 11-25-2016, 03:57 PM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

Max Heindel, Message of the Stars.
CHAPTER XVI
URANUS, THE PLANET OF ALTRUISM

http://www.rosicrucian.com/mos/moseng06.htm
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Unread 11-25-2016, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Sounds interesting. Bun already spammed Zadkiel's passage on Uranus and she added some other astrologers too.

What's your personal take on Uranus?
I'm going Green on this one. On beyond Saturn! JWG stated it well [IMO]! My only disagreement with Jeffrey's assessment is with his title, "Freedom from the Known". "Freedom from the Limitations on Knowledge" is better for what he appears to have meant. Since the question was actually for sibylline, I'd like to know her opinion regarding this Uranian interpretation as well.

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Unread 11-26-2016, 03:32 PM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

Quote:
Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Sounds interesting. Bun already spammed Zadkiel's passage on Uranus and she added some other astrologers too.

What's your personal take on Uranus?
Quote:
Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Since the question was actually for sibylline, I'd like to know her opinion regarding this Uranian interpretation as well.
My take? It's a malefic of the highest order and I'm amazed many intelligent astrologers don't see that. That doesn't mean it is all bad but acknowledging that it is malefic is pretty crucial to understanding it. "Planet of Altruism" has to be a joke.

I agree with Zadkiel except I don't know about it not being as powerful as Saturn or Mars. Possibly in transit or event charts that is true; I'm not completely sure, but natally is as powerful. The effects show up through dynamic aspects (conjunction, opposition, square). Uranus is without a doubt implicated in health problems of the brain and PNS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Wolf Green
Saturn correlates to all the conditioning patterns of our life. the conditioning patterns of society, family, expectations of people in our lives, and the conditioning patterns relative to all the prior lives that you bring into this life [...] Uranus is forever trying to shatter, revolutionize, liberate, or break free from all those conditioning patterns.
Let's be honest, Uranus doesn't know what it is try to break free from the vast majority of the time. It just wants to break because that's its nature. The issue is that once you destroy everything, there is nothing left.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Wolf Green
What for? What is the intent? To what purpose?
Good questions.

Uranians can epitomize "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face" and remarkably this tendency doesn't much improve with age, IME. This is part of why Uranus proves more detrimental than Neptune or Pluto. Uranus doesn't take advice, it doesn't learn from mistakes. Uranus is stubborn and fanatical, and in the rush to do what it wants and not follow what it sees as orders or pressure from society (although the world must bend to accommodate Uranian impulses and whims) it causes harm to itself in the process.

That said, Uranians can prove to be very intelligent and/or amazingly original. It is an energy outside of the realm of normal experience, after all.
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Unread 11-26-2016, 04:19 PM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

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Originally Posted by sibylline View Post
My take? It's a malefic of the highest order and I'm amazed many intelligent astrologers don't see that. That doesn't mean it is all bad but acknowledging that it is malefic is pretty crucial to understanding it. "Planet of Altruism" has to be a joke.

I agree with Zadkiel except I don't know about it not being as powerful as Saturn or Mars. Possibly in transit or event charts that is true; I'm not completely sure, but natally is as powerful. The effects show up through dynamic aspects (conjunction, opposition, square). Uranus is without a doubt implicated in health problems of the brain and PNS.



Let's be honest, Uranus doesn't know what it is try to break free from the vast majority of the time. It just wants to break because that's its nature. The issue is that once you destroy everything, there is nothing left.



Good questions.

Uranians can epitomize "cutting off one's nose to spite one's face" and remarkably this tendency doesn't much improve with age, IME. This is part of why Uranus proves more detrimental than Neptune or Pluto. Uranus doesn't take advice, it doesn't learn from mistakes. Uranus is stubborn and fanatical, and in the rush to do what it wants and not follow what it sees as orders or pressure from society (although the world must bend to accommodate Uranian impulses and whims) it causes harm to itself in the process.

That said, Uranians can prove to be very intelligent and/or amazingly original. It is an energy outside of the realm of normal experience, after all.
Interesting, Sib. Do you have any charts where Uranus would be considered Malefic like that of Saturn? Personally, I don't think any planet can touch upon Saturn's sadist like nature, but mine is so strong that it makes me bias.

I'm guessing the charts with Uranus on an angle in hard aspect to personal planets would count most? Show us a chart with an example.
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Unread 11-26-2016, 05:04 PM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

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Interesting, Sib. Do you have any charts where Uranus would be considered Malefic like that of Saturn? Personally, I don't think any planet can touch upon Saturn's sadist like nature, but mine is so strong that it makes me bias.

I'm guessing the charts with Uranus on an angle in hard aspect to personal planets would count most? Show us a chart with an example.
Uranus doesn't operate like Saturn. For the most part, Saturn's heavy hand is pretty clear to anyone it touches whereas Uranus shows up as impulses. Uranus on an angle isn't pleasant but Uranus rising I haven't found to be as bad as it might seem unless, yes, it is making hard aspects to personal planets. Uranus is at peak power in fire and air signs, I think, which can be a good or bad thing. Fixed signs or Earth in the chart can help in that when Uranus removes, something is put in its place.

I have many charts, obviously, it helps that I know a lot of people and most are curious to know what their charts say, lol. I wouldn't give out details of people's personal lives though. There are public figures we could look to although of course they aren't typical.
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Unread 11-26-2016, 06:06 PM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

Would Uranus be exhalted in a Earth sign, you think?
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Unread 11-26-2016, 07:09 PM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

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Would Uranus be exhalted in a Earth sign, you think?
Why, because it would be tempered in Earth? I like it but I don't know. Even its rulership of Aquarius can be questioned so we're a long way from exaltations.
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Unread 11-26-2016, 07:37 PM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

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Why, because it would be tempered in Earth? I like it but I don't know. Even its rulership of Aquarius can be questioned so we're a long way from exaltations.
Yeah, because it would be "tempered" by Earth. In modern astrology exaltations seem to be places not like the planet but where it functions best. If Uranus really needs tempering so badly to work then that would be it.

How would you question its rulership in Aquarius?

I guess I'm just very curious about exaltations and these outer planets that don't have them. It makes me feel like something is missing.
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  #12  
Unread 11-27-2016, 12:50 AM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

I think it will be natural for some people to be wary of Uranus' sometimes erratic behaviour, it is associated with earthquakes after all. But to see it as a 'malefic of the highest order' I think is completely missing the nature and beauty that Uranus has to offer. But it is to be empathised that those who prefer a more tangible, controlled environment, would be naturally repulsed by its energy. The secret in understanding it lies in removing that instinctive urge sometimes people get, in order to understand that the very energy of breaking away opens itself to create completely new elements of brain and creation. I like it to Aries in that it's nature is to change and break. After all, how is glass created? And go transfer it to a more human, personal level - wouldn't life be boring if it consistently followed a pattern, without the need for completely new concepts?

The ultimate human example I can give is the artist Daniel Johnston. Saturn is heavy in his chart, but so is Aquarius. I watched a documentary a few weeks ago which introduced me to him, 'The devil and Daniel Johnston.' I highly recommend it btw. Anyway, after watching it I can intuitively see that the dominance of Saturn in his hart is tied in with his Mum's authoritarian, religious response to him. He was later diagnosed with having skitzophrenia (Uranus probably governs mental health right?), but basically his sole, true nature and purpose in this life was to CREATE. This naturally contradicted with his Mum's fanatical, fixed religious views and the juxtaposition this caused can be seen in his songs.

But he had to 'break free' and moved to Austin, Texas to follow his need to create and be a musician. He was so creative, he was in control of music, not music giving him ambitions and opportunities. He did art-work too. And perhaps Saturn caused the mental health to catch up on him, but the pure nature of Uranus caused him to be vulnerable and through motivations of jealousy, the lead singer of The Butthole Surfers overloaded him with a concoction of upper drugs and hallucinogenics, and his mental health detoriated. He still created though. The effects of Uranus and Saturn can be seen through this chart, whether it's people blocking his energy, or himself blocking the right path through inner confusion.

Anyway, to sum up - the Uranian energy is impersonal, and its need to destruct should be taken that way too. Destruction is necessary to create. To see it as a malefic is the equivalent to assigning blame to an earthquake, and failing to see the beauty of Mother Nature, from natural disasters to the pure beauty of the seasons. I also liken it to Autism - to expect it to act according to the norm or to try to set t by the same standards as someone not having Autism, or a planet that doesn't need to create to give birth. It cannot and should not be tamed. It would destroy its very purpose it exists. Similarly, artists like Daniel Johnston would not exist, but will always certainly be misunderstood along the way.

https://youtu.be/PgIkVW--62o - trailer for 'The Devil and Daniel Johnston.'

https://youtu.be/FKW2H0WBqW8 song - Story of an Artist

"Everyone in friends and family
Sayin' "hey get a job
Why do you only do that only
Why are you so odd?

"We don't really like what you do
We don't think anyone ever will
It's a problem that you have
And this problem's made you ill"

Last edited by Bluebell87; 11-27-2016 at 03:00 AM.
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  #13  
Unread 11-27-2016, 03:00 AM
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Smile Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

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Originally Posted by sibylline View Post
Planets have essential natures before we take into account other factors and that is the discussion I thought we were all having. Again, would you prefer Uranus to Jupiter, all factors being equal?
I'd prefer Urania (as I personally call ) in Aquarius, for example, to , say, Jupiter in Capricorn. I don't like Urania in Aries, or Pluto in Capricorn. Is that what you meant? Quality of expression? Saturn's a problem for me regardless of where it is, but it can still have a silver lining--having it in Leo in H6 helps me survive.

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Unread 11-27-2016, 03:18 AM
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Maybe I need to star bah-humbuging about Uranus, too. I find people give a lot of lip service to "creativity" and "originality" while most people can't seem to recognize either of them if they bit them in the ***.
I have In Gemini, and I'm naturally creative and original. Most people seem to prefer some version of Consensus Opinion, with no changes. I do respect Consensus Opinion as the "envelope"--I just push it when I see a need for that. [IMO], if you're going to think outside the box, have a good reason for it. And, don't expect agreement from those who like it inside, just as it is.
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Unread 11-27-2016, 03:32 AM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

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I have In Gemini, and I'm naturally creative and original. Most people seem to prefer some version of Consensus Opinion, with no changes. I do respect Consensus Opinion as the "envelope"--I just push it when I see a need for that. [IMO], if you're going to think outside the box, have a good reason for it. And, don't expect agreement from those who like it inside, just as it is.
Are you naturally creative and original? Really.

I've never had an original or creative thought in my life. Nobody's ever caught onto this because they are uninterested in the world around them and somehow think what I say is new. A pity, really.

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Unread 11-27-2016, 05:01 AM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

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How would you question its rulership in Aquarius?

I guess I'm just very curious about exaltations and these outer planets that don't have them. It makes me feel like something is missing.
Sorry, I missed this post.

I was referring to the longstanding debate over Uranus' rulership of Aquarius, not referring to whether I personally question it...I don't. Uranus doesn't rule Aquarius.

Kidding, I don't know but I don't see why Uranus has any more in common with Aquarius than it does with Aries. Not that rulerships were ever based on similarity.

I get what you're saying but just think of it this way: otherworldly planets don't have to rule over mundane experience.
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Unread 11-27-2016, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by sibylline View Post
I was referring to the definition which relates to these words:



But as usual, you knew that.

Were you going to answer my question above yours? Because I'm going to get tired of this thread in 2.5 seconds.
Had to leave right after my tongue-in-cheek post. All right, I'd rather it was Jupiter under those conditions. I have Trine the Moon in H4, which is quite stimulating in a good way--Square would be too aggravating. It does Square my Asc though, which IS aggravating. Anything Squaring the Asc is problematic, but Jupiter relates the Asc quite well. I'd also rather have Jup than Squaring the Asc in H4. But you asked about the Moon. Jupiter is more of a calming vibration. amps up the mind. Btw, for me, is a Yin vibration--hence, "Urania", GODDESS of the Heavens, and Muse of Atrology. Astrology includes Astronomy, but not vice versa. [IMO] They named it wrong--"Urania" is more fitting for Astrological purposes.

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Unread 11-27-2016, 09:43 AM
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Smile Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

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Sorry, I missed this post.

I was referring to the longstanding debate over Uranus' rulership of Aquarius, not referring to whether I personally question it...I don't. Uranus doesn't rule Aquarius.

Kidding, I don't know but I don't see why Uranus has any more in common with Aquarius than it does with Aries. Not that rulerships were ever based on similarity.

I get what you're saying but just think of it this way: otherworldly planets don't have to rule over mundane experience.
I see a Yin version of which charges up the Mind--a Yin ruler for a Yang sign, like Venus and Libra. And, a mental stimulator for an Air-sign. Mars energizes the ego, which is perfect for Aries. As for Neptune, talk about a calming influence!

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Unread 11-27-2016, 07:03 PM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

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Originally Posted by sibylline View Post
Sorry, I missed this post.

I was referring to the longstanding debate over Uranus' rulership of Aquarius, not referring to whether I personally question it...I don't. Uranus doesn't rule Aquarius.

Kidding, I don't know but I don't see why Uranus has any more in common with Aquarius than it does with Aries. Not that rulerships were ever based on similarity.

I get what you're saying but just think of it this way: otherworldly planets don't have to rule over mundane experience.
Just because they don't "have to" doesn't mean that they explicitly don't.

And why can't Uranus rule both Aquarius and Aries? It can do two things at once. Lots of planets do. It could be exalted in Virgo or something. Though more research would need to be done aside from just declaring it to be true.
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Unread 11-28-2016, 01:42 AM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

Out of all the signs, I can see Uranus having the most affinity with Aries. Severing, individuation, quick fast and dry, totally unconcerned with image, lightning etc.
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Unread 11-28-2016, 04:36 AM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

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Out of all the signs, I can see Uranus having the most affinity with Aries. Severing, individuation, quick fast and dry, totally unconcerned with image, lightning etc.
Uranus in Scorpio is better, I think.

Uranus symbolizes change; what better than in the sign of transformation. Plus, Scorpio is also ruled by Mars.
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Unread 11-28-2016, 05:38 AM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

Uranus is on my ascendant and I am triggered by your attempting to fit Uranus into any of your boxes.

I think Taurus is a good sign for Uranus. They have almost the same sounding name so there must be something there.
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Unread 11-28-2016, 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted by conspiracy theorist View Post
Going on strictly affinity, it's the fixed modality that is most incongruent with Uranus.
As I see it, those are "Mind-waves" in the Aquarian glyph, not lightning bolts. And, the Uranian vibration affects the Mind in a intense, constant ("Fixed") way. It's currently unlocking vital, mental abilities, which Saturn has been preventing us from utilizing. This is "radical" and "disruptive" to the Saturnian paradigm, but in and of itself is orderly and beneficial. affects Taurus tremendously, helping it to accept its transition into the next Sign, Gemini.

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Unread 11-28-2016, 05:52 AM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

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Uranus is on my ascendant and I am triggered by your attempting to fit Uranus into any of your boxes.

I think Taurus is a good sign for Uranus. They have almost the same sounding name so there must be something there.
Uranus in Taurus is probably the worst placement for Uranus.

I'm assuming you're joking, but still.

Taurus is traditional, conservative, and doesn't ever change. Uranus is none of those.
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Unread 11-28-2016, 06:00 AM
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Re: Hi, I am a Taurus

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As I see it, those are "Mind-waves" in the Aquarian glyph, not lightning bolts. And, the Uranian vibration affects the Mind in a intense, constant ("Fixed") way. It's currently unlocking vital, mental abilities, which Saturn has been preventing us from utilizing. This is "radical" and "disruptive" to the Saturnian paradigm, but in and of itself is orderly and beneficial. affects Taurus tremendously, helping it to accept its transition into the next Sign, Gemini.
Hmm, how do square that with the fact that Uranus goes out of its way to destroy enduring structures?
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