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Degree Symbols Discuss your experiences with all symbol systems based on astrological degrees in the chart (i.e., Sabian Symbols, Kozminsky Symbols, etc.): the symbols for the transiting Sun and Moon and the events of your life, the symbols of your natal chart...


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Unread 04-23-2011, 09:18 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Cayce did not predict the end of the world in the 90's. In fact, there were predictions for things that will happen around the year 2100. Cayce several times used the phrase "'58 to '98" and referred to it as the "testing period" before the Earth changes. Nowhere did Cayce say this world will end in any particular time window. Actually, most of what he said infers that the general population of humans has a big hand in the timing of these events. These events will happen because of us, not the passing of time.

I'm not sure I would call myself a Cayce expert, but I am extensively familiar with much of his work. I have digitised versions of the original readings. A few more than 14,000 readings were recorded and those are the only ones we have today. Any readings given before the hiring of Gladys Davis (the stenographer) were for those people to whom they were given and can now be considered lost as they weren't recorded (unless you want to consult the Light Record yourself, that is).

I've seen a number of examples where people have tried to show that Cayce contradicted himself. Generally, debunkers are looking for a reason to not believe something and once they find it, they stop looking. For instance, there were two people who were told that they were (in a former incarnation) the rich man whom Jesus said only needs to sell all he has, give it to the poor, then follow Him, and he would have eternal life. This seems to be a contradiction. That's why Cayce was later asked about the "contradiction." According to Cayce, both were true. Jesus addressed these two men separately at different times, but the telling of the story condensed the two into a single event. This sort of thing happened a number of times throughout the bible stories for the sake of being concise. The gospels were never supposed to be a completely exhaustive sequence of events. They were meant to give Truth, Love, and Hope to coming generations.

Similarly, some other "contradictions" come from our assumption that we have all the information. Cayce gave more than three names for the "wise men" who visited baby Jesus. This was quite confusing because everybody knows there could only have been three of them, right? According to Cayce, there were several groups of visitors. One group was of three and another was of five. I don't think anyone ever asked for an exhaustive list of all the visitors to the infant King, so we don't know how many there really were.

The only real contradictions that were given, as piercethevale mentioned above, are for very sensitive information such as the exact time of Jesus's birth. As astrologers, we should know how very cumbersome it is to measure time linearly and convert various methods of recording time to each other. This provides a perfect shield of ambiguity. These "ambiguities" were included to intentionally deflect people with the wrong intentions. There is much that could be learned from the birth of Jesus which happened at an appointed time. Those who want to dismiss it will be aided by the "contradictions" they see. If you look long and hard enough throughout life, you'll notice that grand and important Truths are often safeguarded behind silly things that would make most people turn away. Those who want Truth, regardless of the mouth speaking it, will receive it. Those who find fault for superficial reasons will not.

I cannot prove the efficacy of Cayce's readings to anyone, but I can say that I have tested and proved them to myself. In fact, how could any man give 14,000+ readings in the course of ~40 years and only "contradict" himself a handful of times? If the number of "contradictions" is that astonishingly low, it could be covered by our margin of error in studying and interpreting them. There were plenty of occasions when Cayce gave separate readings, decades apart, on the same specific subject and used some of the same words and phrasings in both readings. If Cayce was a fraud, he was the greatest and most accomplished fraud of all time, way above and beyond all others. Test the readings for yourself. Don't listen to my hype or anyone else's. If you want to know, then seek and you will find. It's all there on record for anyone who wants to know. It has been given.

P.S. The important thing to remember about predictions is that they are dependent on living things (us). The passing of time doesn't trigger anything. We do. Thus, there is a certain X-factor built into every prediction, no matter how accurate it is. Cayce could say that something will happen, but how and when are entirely up to the living people involved in it's manifestation. You can never account or discount free will.

P.P.S. For gits and shiggles, after posting this I noticed that it is my 661st post, the 76th in the thread, and it was posted at 4:18pm local standard for me. All of these are 13's and thus 4's. Ain't the Universe an interesting thing?

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Unread 04-23-2011, 09:40 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
Cayce did not predict the end of the world in the 90's. In fact, there were predictions for things that will happen around the year 2100. Cayce several times used the phrase "'58 to '98" and referred to it as the "testing period" before the Earth changes. Nowhere did Cayce say this world will end in any particular time window. Actually, most of what he said infers that the general population of humans has a big hand in the timing of these events. These events will happen because of us, not the passing of time.

I'm not sure I would call myself a Cayce expert, but I am extensively familiar with much of his work. I have digitised versions of the original readings. A few more than 14,000 readings were recorded and those are the only ones we have today. Any readings given before the hiring of Gladys Davis (the stenographer) were for those people to whom they were given and can now be considered lost as they weren't recorded (unless you want to consult the Light Record yourself, that is).

I've seen a number of examples where people have tried to show that Cayce contradicted himself. Generally, debunkers are looking for a reason to not believe something and once they find it, they stop looking. For instance, there were two people who were told that they were (in a former incarnation) the rich man whom Jesus said only needs to sell all he has, give it to the poor, then follow Him, and he would have eternal life. This seems to be a contradiction. That's why Cayce was later asked about the "contradiction." According to Cayce, both were true. Jesus addressed these two men separately at different times, but the telling of the story condensed the two into a single event. This sort of thing happened a number of times throughout the bible stories for the sake of being concise. The gospels were never supposed to be a completely exhaustive sequence of events. They were meant to give Truth, Love, and Hope to coming generations.

Similarly, some other "contradictions" come from our assumption that we have all the information. Cayce gave more than three names for the "wise men" who visited baby Jesus. This was quite confusing because everybody knows there could only have been three of them, right? According to Cayce, there were several groups of visitors. One group was of three and another was of five. I don't think anyone ever asked for an exhaustive list of all the visitors to the infant King, so we don't know how many there really were.

The only real contradictions that were given, as piercethevale mentioned above, are for very sensitive information such as the exact time of Jesus's birth. As astrologers, we should know how very cumbersome it is to measure time linearly and convert various methods of recording time to each other. This provides a perfect shield of ambiguity. These "ambiguities" were included to intentionally deflect people with the wrong intentions. There is much that could be learned from the birth of Jesus which happened at an appointed time. Those who want to dismiss it will be aided by the "contradictions" they see. If you look long and hard enough throughout life, you'll notice that grand and important Truths are often safeguarded behind silly things that would make most people turn away. Those who want Truth, regardless of the mouth speaking it, will receive it. Those who find fault for superficial reasons will not.

I cannot prove the efficacy of Cayce's readings to anyone, but I can say that I have tested and proved them to myself. In fact, how could any man give 14,000+ readings in the course of ~40 years and only "contradict" himself a handful of times? If the number of "contradictions" is that astonishingly low, it could be covered by our margin of error in studying and interpreting them. There were plenty of occasions when Cayce gave separate readings, decades apart, on the same specific subject and used some of the same words and phrasings in both readings. If Cayce was a fraud, he was the greatest and most accomplished fraud of all time, way above and beyond all others. Test the readings for yourself. Don't listen to my hype or anyone else's. If you want to know, then seek and you will find. It's all there on record for anyone who wants to know. It has been given.

P.S. The important thing to remember about predictions is that they are dependent on living things (us). The passing of time doesn't trigger anything. We do. Thus, there is a certain X-factor built into every prediction, no matter how accurate it is. Cayce could say that something will happen, but how and when are entirely up to the living people involved in it's manifestation. You can never account or discount free will.

P.P.S. For gits and shiggles, after posting this I noticed that it is my 661st post, the 76th in the thread, and it was posted at 4:18pm local standard for me. All of these are 13's and thus 4's. Ain't the Universe an interesting thing?
Yes!...Now this guy understands and knows his Cayce, and not only that, but that's exactly why different dates were given for the birth.
I tip my hat!
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Unread 04-23-2011, 09:41 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Quote:
Cayce predicted changes to the Earth surface to begin some time between 1958 and 1998. The cause of these dramatic Earth changes will be the shift in the world's magnetic poles around the year 2000. Cayce predicted that when this pole shift occurs it would begin reversals in the world's climate so that:
"..where there has been a frigid or semi-tropical climate, there will be a more tropical one, and moss and fern will grow."
I just read that over here at http://www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce11.html

Although it seems he was right about a lot of things in the past (although who knows if his predictions were changed in retrospect, after the fact.)

But still, the climate shift he predicted in 2000 didn't happen, and I remember the madness he helped propagate. I read a few of his books, and find him interesting. But the point is, you can't take his word as scripture.
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Unread 04-23-2011, 09:48 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

How important Cayce's words are to you is entirely up to you. That is fine. I can assure you, however, that Cayce did NOT link the Earth changes to the year 2000. That was done by somebody else.
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Unread 04-23-2011, 10:10 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Quote:
P.P.S. For gits and shiggles, after posting this I noticed that it is my 661st post, the 76th in the thread, and it was posted at 4:18pm local standard for me. All of these are 13's and thus 4's. Ain't the Universe an interesting thing?
It also shows that you edited it at 4:22, so 4 plus 4 again. Yep, the whole universe is based on mathematics.

Back to Cayce, like I said above, I'm familiar with him, and read his books in college, and am aware he was special, or I wouldn't take time to read him. I just wanted to entertain the fact that he may have been wrong once in a while, specifically with this birth chart with Jesus as an Aries. An Arian, unorthodox philosophy, yes. An Arian heart, no. Like I said, an Aries Sun would have went about things totally differently, he wouldn't have been just "speaking" against authorities (Gemini and Mercury), he would have been going after them with an actual sword (Mars,Iron). Not just figuratively, as he is quoted, "I have not come to bring peace, but a sword", but literally. When I think of an Aries leader, I think more "Braveheart", than the teacher and messenger(Saturn in Gemini) Jesus. Just my 2cents, nothing more, nothing less!

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Unread 04-23-2011, 10:38 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

The 'Fight' from within is from Mars....MARS IN GEMINI...!!!! ONE WHOM FIGHTS WITH HIS TONGUE AND WORDS...JUST LIKE ME....!

jEsUs/YeShUa [RUDHYAR]

"(GEMINI 19): A LARGE ARCHAIC VOLUME REVEALS A TRADITIONAL WISDOM.

KEYNOTE: Contacting the all-human planetary Mind underlying any cultural and personal mentality.

Occult tradition tells us that all cyclic manifestations of the human mind have had a primordial revelatory Source. It speaks of ancient books made of especially treated papyrus leaves and conveying through symbols the archetypal processes at the root of all earthly existence (see Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine). Such volumes, said to remain in the possession of certain Adepts, constitute the "exteriorization" of archetypal knowledge and wisdom. They contain the "seed-ideas" from which the human mind grows, cyclically producing cultures of various types.

This fourth stage symbol evokes for us the "technique" by means of which the human mind can uncover the foundations of its nature and acquire what might be called SEED-KNOWLEDGE, the knowledge of the structure of cyclic and cosmic manifestations of life on this planet."
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Unread 04-23-2011, 10:40 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

That's understandable. In thinking about the qualities of signs, I want to stress that X-factor I mentioned above. All manifestations are based upon the expressions of living creatures, therefore free will is paramount. The expressions of a lesser Aries might be strength in anger and quickness of temper, but the expressions of a more developed, more enlightened Aries would be the control of anger and management of temper. My mother is an excellent example of this. She is a Sun Aries, but you would never guess it from her behaviour. She gives compassion and understanding long before she gives anger. She supports first and does not seek to control. Her Aries expressions are modified by the person her free choices have built her to be. Some would argue that other astrological factors augment her Aries expressions, but all astrological factors must take a back seat to free will.

The general idea is that as one grows, one becomes more able to control self. A lesser developed Aries and a more developed Aries would still deal with the same tendencies in similar contexts, but those things would be dealt with differently. If any two Aries might manifest their qualities differently, I see no reason why the most developed of us all should be limited by his astrological persuasions. Actually, it seems to me that the more developed one becomes, the less influenced one is by astrology. Indeed, Jesus was put into situations where He could have conquered by force. I think that was intentional. One of the most important lessons for any student to learn is to have power and not use it. His sacrifice had purpose and so He played the game according to the big picture that He could see and few others could even imagine. He could have conquered in man's artificial world, but He rather conquered the natural world. Man's artificial world is the illusion based upon the twisting of the natural world. By overcoming self, he became Self.
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Unread 04-23-2011, 10:45 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

@Piercethevale
Jesus TAUGHT with his words, and that spells SATURN IN GEMINI. They called Jesus "Rabbi", or "Teacher".

It's elementary, dear Watson.

Again, quick recap, I received information about this chart from another plane. Sure enough, when I plugged it in, I received this chart with a big cross in the middle. And after checking all the Sabian symbols, they ALL had something to do with Christmas, Easter, or the fish, Jesus' ancient symbol.

If this isn't the chart of ONE of the messiahs, then it sure has a lot of "coincidences", we'll just leave it at that. It's just a pretty amazing chart.

It's almost like, if you had a dream that there's a pot of gold buried in your backyard, you wake up, and dig and find that pot of gold, the proof is right there that you received that information from a higher source!

Here I am, sharing my pot of gold with you, and you're arguing that it's not gold. Ha! "What fools these mortals be"...


ps Mark, a female Aries and male Aries would naturally be different. My chart has Jesus with Venus in Aries, which would explain his more refined martial qualities, and even may explain his somewhat "effiminate" depictions of him on the cross and in paintings.

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Unread 04-23-2011, 11:03 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
The 'Fight' from within is from Mars....MARS IN GEMINI...!!!! ONE WHOM FIGHTS WITH HIS TONGUE AND WORDS...JUST LIKE ME....!

jEsUs/YeShUa [RUDHYAR]

"(GEMINI 19): A LARGE ARCHAIC VOLUME REVEALS A TRADITIONAL WISDOM.

KEYNOTE: Contacting the all-human planetary Mind underlying any cultural and personal mentality.
Sorry, Piercethevale, but have you even bothered to look at my chart?
I have Saturn at that exact degree, so you're actually helping my argument here. Thanks.
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Unread 04-23-2011, 11:10 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Sabian Symbols for this moment
For the Sun: The pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.
For the Moon: A hidden choir singing during a religious service.

I just read this, after I posted my pot of gold analogy. These symbols for the moment say a lot about what's going on behind the scenes on the day before Easter, I would say.

As for Jesus' Saturn at 19 degrees Gemini, the symbols are

Gemini 19 Sabian Symbol: In the somber archives of a sedate museum a large archaic volume is somewhat conspicuously displayed.
Kozminsky Symbol: A mountaineer, climbing in the darkness in a violent storm which has blown away his cloak and hat, saved from falling down a precipice by a flash of lightning.

In another thread, I mentioned that conspicuous archaic volume that stands out conspicuously in antiquity is none other than the BIBLE. The LAW which Jesus so frequently referred the Jews to read over again. And Saturn rules the Law. They say Jesus spoke with authority, even taught from the Cradle. Saturn in Gemini all the way.


(By the way, iron sharpens iron, that's the only reason I'm still bothering to discuss this. You're making me sharper, but in a way, aren't I making you sharper as well?)

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Unread 04-26-2011, 02:14 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
That's understandable. In thinking about the qualities of signs, I want to stress that X-factor I mentioned above. All manifestations are based upon the expressions of living creatures, therefore free will is paramount. The expressions of a lesser Aries might be strength in anger and quickness of temper, but the expressions of a more developed, more enlightened Aries would be the control of anger and management of temper. My mother is an excellent example of this. She is a Sun Aries, but you would never guess it from her behaviour. She gives compassion and understanding long before she gives anger. She supports first and does not seek to control. Her Aries expressions are modified by the person her free choices have built her to be. Some would argue that other astrological factors augment her Aries expressions, but all astrological factors must take a back seat to free will.

The general idea is that as one grows, one becomes more able to control self. A lesser developed Aries and a more developed Aries would still deal with the same tendencies in similar contexts, but those things would be dealt with differently. If any two Aries might manifest their qualities differently, I see no reason why the most developed of us all should be limited by his astrological persuasions. Actually, it seems to me that the more developed one becomes, the less influenced one is by astrology. Indeed, Jesus was put into situations where He could have conquered by force. I think that was intentional. One of the most important lessons for any student to learn is to have power and not use it. His sacrifice had purpose and so He played the game according to the big picture that He could see and few others could even imagine. He could have conquered in man's artificial world, but He rather conquered the natural world. Man's artificial world is the illusion based upon the twisting of the natural world. By overcoming self, he became Self.

Actually Mark...Suryakant and I discussed the lesser influence of astrology as one gets higher up the spiritual ladder...from what we gathered from my birth chart is just the opposite... it does so appear...and most convincingly to me and my Dharma Bum Buddy...in that you become that very thing that you were born to be...you acquiesce to the will of the cosmos...
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Unread 04-28-2011, 01:38 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

I thought about what you wrote and I think we're both correct. There is less deviation in the behaviour of a more developed person. The higher up you go, the more likely it is that you will turn out to be what you were supposed to be because you wouldn't be mucking it up with your own selfish will so much. The expression of those qualities, however, is always a choice that can be made in the moment and then become a habit. We build with every thought, word, and action. Just as in my previous example, an Aries influence can be expressed as aggression or control of aggression. The most important factor in determining which one it will be is individual free will. In short, I was talking about in-the-moment expressions of character, whereas you seem to be talking about life paths. Both are legitimate topics. We just can't afford to equivocate.
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

In support of my theory on the Star of Bethlehem and that Pluto was conj. the 'Star' or actually somehow was part of a a optical phenomena [a Stellium of Pluto and trans-Plutonian planets] and that the phenomena and/or these trans-Plutonian Planets conj. at Libra 01* related to cycles of 666 and 888 years. I found this this morning while researching legends and history on Glastonbury, England, King Arthur and Joseph of Arimathea.

" The rhombus was discovered to be the key to the mysterious medieval sign of the Vesica Piscis, the sign of the fish. This was found to be derived from the cube unfolded, producing the sign of the Cross with the three horizontal and four vertical bars, which when cubed, produce twenty-seven and sixty-four. All other numbers in ratio are found in the square of seventy-four, the circle of 231, and a rectangle of 37 x 64. Such is the external measure of the Lady Chapel at Glastonbury Abbey – 37 feet by 64 feet. This was the site of the first ecclesiastical building to be erected there. Architecture down the ages, in all climes, through all races and civilisations, conforms to one set of rules only, and indicates the basic Unity of God and therefore of all religions. It is canonical and eternal and its interpretation has always been recognised in a metaphysical context.

We have now to consider two important facts:

a) Architectural proportions are the same throughout all civilisations.
b) These proportions are to be understood as the means of interpreting astronomy and astrology through various myths.

It is interesting to note that the knowledge which the ancients possessed coincides with the knowledge of the solar system and universe we have today. This knowledge has been gained through use of the most scientific instruments and is of such a complex nature that even now it has not been fully interpreted. How this knowledge was obtained before is a mystery, but the ancient astronomers knew the distances of the planets from the earth and sun and also the time it took them to move round the sun. They computed the planet Pluto (apparently) even though it was not visible to them. They also computed Saturn and Jupiter as well as how often they conjoined and in which sign of the zodiac they lay.

It takes Pluto 248 years to move through the twelve signs of the zodiac. The length of the nave to the high altar in Bristol Cathedral is 248 feet. The height of the central tower of Wells Cathedral is given at about 164 feet. It takes Neptune some 164 years to pass through the twelve signs. There are eighteen periods of thirty-seven lunar eclipses which total 666 years and are called a ’saros’. The overall length of Glastonbury Abbey was 666 feet. This number is also associated with the ’magic square’ of the sun.

Although I have not carried out an on-the-spot survey of the parish church of St Mary at Wedmore, nevertheless a rough estimate may be attempted that the overall length of the church will be in the region of 222 feet. This is also the measure of St Mary Redcliffe, Bristol, whose spire is also about 222 feet in height. The correspondences might appear vague but they are correspondences. The system adopted by the antique architects appears to have been called the ’Canon of Proportion’, which relates all the seven sciences of the ancients and interprets them through use of the Hebrew grammar. Hebrew is a very old tongue and was in reality the sacred tongue of the Church until it was removed and Latin adopted in its place. The Hebrew alphabet, like the Latin (and Greek for that matter), has numerical values for each of the letters. When a group of letters are placed together they give a total which in turn, when grammatically considered, produce a word or a phrase. Such a system is known as ’gematria’. Only consonants are considered; they give the root-origin to a word or a phrase. When transferring such words and phrases to the heavens it is of some significance to discover that the main star groups are mentioned in Hebrew and to this day many retain their original Hebrew names. Astrologically of course yet another system or canon develops and this in turn reveals that stars not only changed their names but their nature, according to the time of year and day in which they moved across the sky. This is where the renewable nuances of myth enter the picture."



Update June 9, 2016.
In my book I did propose that these two cycles of 666 and 888 years, that also have numerological significance, i.e the esoteric and Gnostic numbers ascribed to the Anti-Christ and the Christ, are that of the cycles of obits around the Sun of two yet undiscovered (more likely yet to be re-discovered) planets in our own Solar System.
My clairvoyant friend, Clarisse Conner, did confirm that they are indeed import astrological cycles in terms of years but would not confirm them to be planetary...which I had always suspected to be a matter of coyness on Her part out of my wishful belief
In the last two - three years I have come to suspect that it is the 18 periods of 37 lunar eclipses.
This birth occurred within the 24 hour period of a Full Moon and I highly suspect that a lunar eclipse followed his birth during that period.
This would be, apparently, another of the signs that the Magi knew of in my humble opinion.
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Unread 05-03-2011, 03:26 AM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Greetings. My discovery yesterday of a web-site on Glastonbury and evidence of knowledge of astronomical/astrological data that has been denounced , to date, as having been impossible to have been known prior to the most recent of times has really giving some theories of mine a boost and propelled me into new realms.

The mention of the cycle of years of 666 being a measurement of Lunar Eclipses
declares when combined with the knowledge of the ancient Hebrews pertaining to their reverence for synodic cycles of the Moon declares that it is the synodic periods and not the sidereal that are of concern to Astrology. Just what I believed was correct all along.
In my book I talk about the conjunction of the astrological cycles of 666 years and 888 years and why I believe them to always conj. at Libra 01*. [as cycles of 666 and 888 will always conjunct only at the same place...i.e every 2664 years @ Libra 01*]
I have noted in my book that this is very, very, very close, if not exactly, to a whole integer factor of a complete cycle of the Yugas of Vedic science.
[ps. Actually Sri Yuketeswar said that the exact figures had been lost and he was giving an educated estimation. ptv]

It is said in the book "The Holy Science" by Sri Yukteswar, that this cycle is 24,000 years. If we add one cycle of the 666/888 we have the figure of 26,664. That is almost exactly, 26,640, that is 10 times 2664 or 10 turns of the 666/888 cycle.
As I have stated that the Avatars appear every 26,640 years [source, "The Holy Science" ...as far as I can recall, or it may be from another source of Vedic knowledge of which I'm at a present loss to remember exactly.] and that when one of the cycles of 2664 years is also conjunct Pluto, which can only occur at 01* Libra, that is when the Avatar appears.
If we divide 26,664 by 248.09 [the current approximation of Plutos' synodic orbit] we come up with the figure of 107.4 [apprx].
There are 108 beads on a Japa Mala...
[not counting the "Guru Bead"...which is extraneous but purposeful.] The Catholic Rosary uses 54 + 1...which is a half factor of the Yogis Japa Mala.

This illustrates in a most important statement that why it is only correct in Astrology to utilize the Tropical Zodiac as it is based on synodic cycles and synodic cycles have to do with illumination from the Sun...Gods Eternal Light that is one with The Word and Gods Eternal Love, made manifest here, in our physical realm [Maya].
All evidence to date has shown that the Christians at Glastonbury, which is the true rightful seat of the 1st and true Church of Christ, knew the importance of Sun rites [Pujas to us Yogis] and gives great creditability to those of us that have denounced the Vatican for persecuting those of us that do such rites and those of us that choose to use and stick by the Tropical Zodiac.
"Parsifal, The Knight of the Sun, The Knight of the Word, The Knight of the Sword. He whom reads the Starry Script"
Think about this folks! ptv
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Here's the real chart of Jesus.
-Jupiter conjunct Saturn conjunct (225088)2007OR10(fear of death)
-full moon in cancer which conjuncts Eris(the superman)

Jim
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bjorkstrand View Post
Here's the real chart of Jesus.
-Jupiter conjunct Saturn conjunct (225088)2007OR10(fear of death)
-full moon in cancer which conjuncts Eris(the superman)

Jim
I'd like to remind you that this is the 'Sabian Forum"...got Sabian Analysis?
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Namaste`. I talked about this in the last chapter of my book. I've been using it myself since late 2004.
I've said it before in this thread...i'm repeating it....
I take my proposed 'Birth chart of Jesus/Yeshua' and do a composite with it with my natal. Then i do a Sabian analysis of the chart axis, the Part of Fortune [Day Formula only please.] and other significant Parts and House Cusp Sabian interps.
I also do progressed composites as to the present situation, in the same manner of analysis.
It works. It works. It works...i'll say it one more time...IT WORKS!
...and if it's true, as it is said, that Jesus/Yeshua has Eternal Life then it is a true composite of where you and Him stand as one in the present situation...of course, that is if you believe it to be the true birth chart.


Here's where the two of us stand...the Sun is conj my natal M.C. and Part of Fortune at the 25th degree of Leo...The pro comp has a mid haven at the 28th of Scorpio [thus it is the HOW the WHY of the chart depending on whether I use the 'Evolutionary' or the 'Involutionary" process of interp. the symbol for the 28th of Scorpio is: [from Rudhyars' book].

"(SCORPIO 28): THE KING OF THE FAIRIES APPROACHING HIS DOMAIN.

KEYNOTE: The capacity in man to recognize and to pay homage to an integrating Principle at the core of all existence.

This rather peculiar picture tells us perhaps a good deal about the limitations of the mind of the clairvoyant who saw it, though it can be related to the symbolism of the various creatures of a spirit world mentioned in some alchemical and Rosicrucian books. What seems to be implied is that beyond both outer nature and the realm of the proud ego, a spiritual world exists to which the intuitive consciousness of man can pay allegiance. In that world, all manifested entities are seen as multiple aspects of a central Power and Consciousness. It is such a central principle of unity that human societies have sought to revere symbolically in human, all-too-human kings. In an individual sense, this principle is the Self.

This is the third stage in the forty-eighth five-fold pattern of symbols. It adds a new dimension to the two preceding ones. At this stage the presence of a spiritual unifying factor begins to be sensed by the individual perhaps weary of the outer shows of his culture. An INNER ALLEGIANCE begins to polarize the consciousness."

..now read what I've posted this past weekend about my research into the Glastonbury situation and Astrology...know and learn about the legend that the Hill of Glastonbury is said to be the Realm of the King of the Faeries...and my encounter with the Sprites/Faeries back in 2007 of which I have photos posted here in this forum and all over the internet...[fuel for thought kids...think about...and I'll be back with a little more gasoline for the fire!]
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

I'd like to also point out that the Part of Fortune for the progressed composite chart above is the 29th degree of Virgo...
[From Rudhyars' book]

"(VIRGO 29): A SEEKER AFTER OCCULT KNOWLEDGE IS READING AN ANCIENT SCROLL WHICH ILLUMINES HIS MIND.

KEYNOTE: After a crisis one should seek to realign the renewed consciousness with the primordial Revelation of the Truth of Man.


Any revolutionary movement, once it has succeeded in over- coming the inertia of the past and in toppling obsolete structures, needs to tap the most essential realities of what Man represents and signifies in the universal Order; or else it merely re-embodies in a superficially altered manner the very things it has destroyed. This is the crucial moment. In occultism the "Pattern of Man" is an archetypal Power that may be contacted. It must be sought with undeviating determination. After each revolutionary crisis this Pattern and this Power can be contacted — always the same, yet at each new cycle perceivable in a different light.

This fourth stage symbol presents us with the technique required to "reach the other shore." But each individual, and each group or racial unit, must come in its own way to the ROOT KNOWLEDGE which provides the only safe foundation for rebirth."
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

A speculative conclusion can be drawn from this that if the above theory of the cycle of Lunar Eclipses being correct as to the sign of an birth of an Avatar then it stands to reason that as my proposed birth chart for Yeshua/Jesus has it occurring during the 24hr. period during a full moon and that the Full Moon is obfuscating the 1st degree of Libra that the anticipated birth of an Avatar must occur during the first full Moon that involves Libra 01* after the conclusion of the cycle of the Yugas. [as I concluded and described above.]
This then is stating that all the Avatars that are born of this cycle are indeed Aries.
As the most revered avatar from India, known as Ram, from a time of great antiquity, in fact has the name of RAM...and, as that all languages of the Caucasian race has Sanskrit for it's root mother tongue...isn't it interesting that the sign of Aries is referred to as the Sign of the RAM...co-incidence?.....Hmmmmmmm
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

{This is a un-edited complete copy from another thread on Lilith in this sabian Forum...so, if you've read the other..this is nothing new..thanks, ptv}

Ive never really got a handle on the meaning of Lilith in Astrology myself. By that I mean I don't state anything about it conclusively...but in this craft* that's more the rule than the exception. *[aspiring to be recognized as a science...which it will be someday.]

I never paid any attention to Lilith until 1998 or 99. It came up alot in the composite and synastry charts I was drawing up between Miss X and myself. and for a few other people in synastry and/or composite charts of their companionships.
All I had was an assumption, a conjecture at best, which had developed from what I could find written about the subject, that Lilith was a person, although, more than likely a 'creature', that had become identified with, the dark side of the feminine that one, especially a man, doesn't not want to encourage...much less have to encounter...
At this point in this post, I'm now going to bring up a couple of the readings of Edgar Cayce here...for those of you that don't believe in Cayces' validity, his proclivities or any truth to his readings ...pass this by please...

...and to those who feel otherwise, bear with patience through this following account [Legend,{or myth} if you'd prefer] because it will become clear why I had to, give this info/explanation, when I explain how the Sabians are to be interpreted through the Astrological Lilith that is found on ones birth chart.

Cayce said that there were 5 "Adams", one for each of the 5 races. The Adam of the Hebrew Bible is that first existing being of the 'Red Race' as most all of, what are the, oldest books of the Bible originated in and came from Atalantis to Egypt with the migration of Atlantean survivors that came to Egypt for refuge and a new start, These Atlanteans, that migrated to Egypt, brought along with them their own knowledge and their own indigenous rites of their particular spiritual path, and also knowledge and applications of other 'sciences'. Once they had been accepted by and had settled in Egypt, it wasn't long before they introduced and established the spiritual belief and it's various rites, that was known in those ancient times as the Aton religion, which by all the accounts I've heard about concerning the Lost Continent, was a true, and very refined understanding of Spiritual laws, how to work with them for the most effective affects in the most beneficial manner, for the newly created living species known as 'Mankind' according to Cayce about a quarter of a million years ago] and how to utilize them in material applications, t[Sigmund Freud had deduced and conclusively stated that what we know in the world today as Judaism or Hebrewism is in fact those same belief[s], tenets, rites and practices that had been known, and practiced, as a religion of great antiquity that Freud believed had originated in ancient Egypt and had been known by a different name as that of, and called, the Aton. Although if Edgar Cayces information on the origin and age of the Aton, its beliefs, practices and knowledge is correct, [as I assume it is correct and a 'given' in that, all previous observations of, any info given by Edgar Cayce in a 'Reading', as to any event[s], knowledge, belief, custom, practice, ritual, rite, person, or Cayces accounting of Where, How or Why, to anything of the past to be a 'given', as because that the info is from Edgar Cayce and I've never seen or heard of Cayce being proven wrong on any historical accounting] and before that of Egypt, as the same belief, albeit by a slightly different name or pronunciation of the same name as in Egypt...i.e. the Aton.
But it evolved, or was re-explained or re-invented during the long Exodus, [according to Freud there were no Israelites, Hebrews or Jews as they are presently known and recognized as such, and that the Exodus really only consisted of the Priests of the Aton faith of Egypt of which the man known as Moses was the High Priest of, and the Levites, as they are called in the Bible, in all truthfulness, but only those lesser Priests of the Aton. [and I would assume that their immediate families were, or would have been included also.] ...According to Freud, the 'Exodus' probably did last as long in time as has been stated to have been, and as is currently believed to be historically factual by most Biblical scholars.... as he stated in his book. "Moses and Monotheism" [available in just about every college book store, public library etc. and...it's not too long a work...really, almost more of a 'treatise' in length. Moses and the Priests wandered the deserts for all those years looking for friendly, spiritually knowledgeable, intelligent and civilized, peoples. ...especially groups of people to transfer the knowledge that is known to me as , known to us presently that given by Moses and the Levites.

The soul of the man, known to be and called Adam in the Book of Genesis of the Hebrew Bible was/is known as Amilius. Each and every soul has an eternal, true name that was given to it in the beginning. [The great Swamis', yogis and gurus and of the Orient know this]...as they have always known...due to the revered, respected, sacred, honored and practiced Guruampara..the teaching, the bestowing, the direct transmission of sacred knowledges and truths from one person to another in only oral fashion. Swami to Guru to Guru to Yogi. Never kept in written form, but retained intact, inviolate and unchanged in image, form or words in the mind and memories of those who are of the most accomplished at achieving and maintaining a singular unity/identification, concentration and absorption ability of inviolate, unalterable, changeless integrity.
According to Cayce, before the creation of the first 5 Men, the 5 Adams of the 5 different races, souls were observing the activity of the 'animals/beasts' that roamed the Earth, and that, these 'animals' although being conscious living, animate and sensing creatures, they were created soul less and thus were nothing more and were as one and the same as... in whole with and yet also a part of... the inanimate physical universe..[r.e. the flora, the fauna, the very elements and form of the planet itself. i.e. all of Gods creation, as much a part of the physical universe as any other 'matter' do have 'spirit' shared among them.] and these souls, not incarnate in any physical form, eventually became tempted to take a physical form of their own creation[s] [which they had the ability to do...and all of us do have the ability to still do...alas though, it's a latent and or forgotten ability for nearly all, if not entirely all, of humankind at the present]as they became desiring to experience the sex act, copulation, etc....as it was that, which so fascinated, intrigued and tempted those souls .
Thus eventually these souls realizing their ability to do so did create for themselves, physical living forms. These numerous and individual souls, of consciousness and thought were, in a very short while, creating all types and sorts of various looking and functioning beings from images conceived from their thoughts and gestated in their own minds. After some period of time in taking possession of these entities/beasts/living forms of there own creative manifestation, there soon was all kind of different forms, too numerous to count and what thus resulted was a menagrie of all sorts of imaginable and unimaginable monstrosities. According to Cayce some of these aberrations were the very same described 'minotuars, 'centuars' and other such creatures that, we ourselves know in our present times as creatures of myths of a time that is so distantly far back in the past...that presently humankind can't recall where or when we saw them, yet we can't seem to forget the subconscious memory of them...because... they indeed, most certainly did exist at one time.

Yes folks; Bestiality. I am talking about multiple. random, wanton 'bestiality' here on Earth before the groovy couple [Adam and Eve...Ish and Isha in the Hebrew tongue] got together. There were all sorts of entities born of various beasts/animals that were half humanoid looking...Some were half mammals, some were half reptilian, some were half fish, some half bird...all sorts. [You can read a lot more about this in at least a couple of books I know of, that are a compilation of some [if not every one] of the Cayce readings on specific subjects,. They are published by the ARE. One book is titled "The Origin and Destiny of Man", the other is one or more of the books on Atlantis [I can't recall exactly at the moment]
Amilius, the Adam of the Red Race...[Adam means Red man according to a philologist of whom I've forgotten the name...and curiously Adam does sound very much like Atman of the Sanskrit tongue but that tongue was not of the Red Race but is the root mother tongue of the White Race] was the same soul that incarnated another [according to Cayce] 30 times before his last and 'final' incarnation, as that of the man known, as Jesus/Yeshua of Nazareth.

There are many conjectures on who or what Lilith was...some say it was a woman of human form but not one that God created, rather one that a soul created for itself...Amilius' first physical form was his own creation and not one of Gods either. Amilius had intercourse with Lilith... there was an offspring. That's when God got a bit upset with what was occuring and called this union between Amilius and Lilith and the resultant offspring as a blasphemy.
God gave Adam a God made physical form to which Amilius obligingly took as his physical vessel and leaving the one he had created himself for himself took possession of the perfect form God created as male for Him. In a little span of some more time, God had created a perfect, [non blasphemous] feminine form...that first human female, perfect in design and form.... that very woman that most all of us know in these times as Eve. Yet, although, the first perfect human male, known as Adam, was created as a correct and most proper seat and home for the soul that is known as Amilius, this perfect human female physical form was not created so as to be given to...not offered to be a possession of... the consciousness that was of Lilith. [...as she didn't contain a 'soul']
I got it from another very revered source, [revered to myself and a number of others, anyways] ...that Lilith didn't have a soul as she was not a physical form that was a creation of one of the souls wandering around this planet and observing, desiring and creating and taking physical form in. This same source of of info stated that in fact she,[or more properly, it,] was a creature of the animal kingdom...thus only possessing 'Spirit'...and not soul.

[...now, just a little more on this before I get to Sabian interpretation of Lilith...That's all I'm going to cite here from Cayce, as that is all that is needed for the purpose of explaining this matter...]

In my over 50 years of studying different philosophies and religions, I have met a number [a few...a very few] of highly illumined beings, of whom have knowledge that is of the most esoteric and occult of any, possibly even all such knowledges that can be defined by the terms esoteric and occult, as such.
It was from a Christian Science mystic that I got this [Yes, there are Christian Science mystics and yogis, those that apply Yogic Science to their own particular belief system... [In Japa Yoga, mostly all that one needs to do is just apply a name{s} of their own archetype{s}, ascended master{s}, boddhisatva{s} ...et al... in any prayer, incantation, mantra, etc.] ...and what this Christian Scientist told me, makes sense to me and a number of the aforementioned illumined beings....ready for this?... Lilith was a goat...the offspring that Amilius was responsible for creating, His offspring, His son, was a creature with the upper body of a humanoid and the lower body of a goat...it had/has horns on it head. It, [or He] is known by many as having the name of Satan.
When God called both Satan, and His mother Lilith, a blasphemy Satan became an avowed enemy of the race of perfect men that was then being created. He then found an ally, guess who...you all know it...Lucifer.
That's why there are two names for, the so called at times, Devil...because they are two different entities. [And those of you that insist otherwise...think about this...Lucifer was an Angel and accounts and reports on him state that he has a human form with wings....why would an Angel have the lower body of an animal..hooves and all? [and Horns...!]

Now bearing in mind, all that I've related up to this point in this post. Let me nowstate here what the most prevalent, commonly circulated and espoused effects attributed to that point in space known as Lilith.


According to the website "Angelfire":

"A little-known element in astrology charts, Lilith is known as the "dark Moon" and, as such, represents our "dark" or hidden emotional selves. According to Lois Daton, author of "Lilith, The Planet of the Doodler," the physical existence of Lilith was confirmed by the United States Weather Bureau in 1879. Lilith is the name used for two different celestial bodies - one is located in the asteroid belt and is not our subject here, the other is an invisible body orbiting the earth approximately three times farther away than the Moon, Luna. It is this Lilith which is of interest here.

Lilith's placement in the chart is especially important to women, and represents the power of the original woman. In a man's chart, Lilith's placement will reveal the hidden power struggles or other issues he may have, resolved or unresolved, with the women in his life.

Lilith was known to the Chaldean astrologers; the Egyptians called her Nephthys. The name Lilith is derived from the old Semitic word for night, "lel" or "lelath", in Arabic "laylah," which also means "ghost" or "spectre" in Hebrew. She is associated with the Death card in Tarot and with the goddesses Persephone, Hecate, Athena, Minerva. She is associated with the Owl, representing secrecy and wisdom, and she is frequently connected with cats.

Lilith is perhaps best understood in contrast to her counterpart, the visible Moon, Luna. Luna receives her self-fulfillment and self-definition through the nurturing of others. Lilith is self-fulfilled and self-defined. Luna represents the visible emotions; Lilith is those emotions which remain hidden or secret. Lilith lives behind-the-scenes, usually undetected. She can be sneaky or deceptive, but she can also indicate our ability to be subtle, to guide and manage events and people without being intrusive. She is our ability to be private, and her placement in the chart will tell you what the native feels most secretive about. As a Moon, Lilith is also associated with mothering, but she is the strength of a mother protecting her cubs. Luna is soft and kind and nurturing. Lilith is strong, a disciplinarian, and will kill any who threaten the well-being of her offspring. Lilith is protective and self-protective.

She protects herself from her own toxic emotions, becoming the guardian of shame, guilt, hatred, vengefulness, bitterness, envy, jealousy. We look for Lilith in our charts to discover which defense mechanisms we employ to hide our wounding."


From the "Astrodienst" website another description:

[I edited out the comments about the effects of a transiting Lillith are to ones personal chart...I'll keep them seperate and print them at the end of this posting of mine....or, maybe not]

"During my years of astrological practice, I have come to use the Dark Moon in all my chart analyses, as a complement to interpretating the Moon. It would never occur to me to neglect this influence. ...[The following explains the meaning of where it is found in ones natal chart.] ...The Dark Moon shows where we can let the Whole flow into our selves, without putting an "I" in the way, without putting up a wall in the form of ego. At the same time, it doesn't indicate passivity - on the contrary - it symbolizes the firm will to be open and trusting, to let the Greater World flow through one, relying entirely on the great laws of the universe, on that which we name God. To prepare us for this opening, the Dark Moon creates a necessary void."

(Jolle de Gravelaine in "Lilith und das Loslassen", Astrologie Heute Nr. 23)


Well, so it would appear that a concise description of the effects of Lillith as to where it is found in a natal chart is indicating where we acquiesce to the will of the Cosmos/ The Creator/God.

I know that a few of you members are going to berate or censure me for bringing my 'proposed' birth chart for Jesus/Yeshua into this topic but I wish to use what data I find there for a zodiac degree for Lillith and do an analysis utilizing the above descriptions of the effects of the Natal position of Lillith as they then apply to what is symbolically found there in the Sabian Symbol. [and maybe...hopefully...you'll now understand why I call the birth chart of Jesus/Yeshua, "A TEMPLATE FOR THE TIME"...!!!!! ]

The position of Lillith on April 2, 0003 AD @ 5:23 pm was at 13* Aries 07'. The Part of Spirit/Soul for this same chart is @ 13* Aries 10'. That's the same degree of the Zodiac, the 14th degree of Aries...and I define the Part of Spirit/Soul as symbolically the attitude, action that comes naturally to you and thus you don't need to constantly remind yourself to incorporate it into your mental attitude or be applying it to all actions that you take...all work, duties and such. It is the opposite formula of that of the Part of Fortune and the Sabian Symbol found for ones Part of Fortune is the very application, that you must be ever consciously aware of and applying to to your attitudes and actions to activate and realize the beneficent results, i.e. to be Fortunate ...it symbolically represents how you can best add a Cosmic Principle/Power, Force, The Will of God... to your actions to achieve the completion of your dharma or life mission here in this present incarnation.
As the Sabian found for Lillith is that which is Sabian Symbolically pictured as the way in which we can be open and trusting and let the Comic energies, i.e. the Creator/Gods' Will, flow through us and direct us...Then it is very similar in effect to that of ones Part of Spirit/Soul...as both give a general, non specifically targeted overall ease to all the other things going on in your life. It's just that the Sabian Symbol found at the Part of Soul is a natural condition that is one with our being, and no effort is needed to recall the symbolism or remind oneself of it or make an effort to manifest and maintain in action, mental attitude, or pre-condition, to approach or being receptive, to achieve an ease and oneness of a flow of the Cosmos/of Creation as we naturally acquiesce to what principle symbolically described by the Sabian Symbol without having to make conscious effort to will it so. hat is symbolically found in the image of the Sabian Symbol at the degree of the Zodiac where ones placement of Lillith is found is a symbolical image, to remember, of what one needs only to surrender to, embrace, acquiesce to and become one with in beingness and identity, as it then thus allows ourselves more of what will open to that flow of Cosmic force that seeks us and lets our lives be of, more ease with and, oneness with the Tao, the FLOW!.

[From Rudhyars book on the Sabian Symbols...
and once you've read this you should then understand why I gave the lengthy discourse on the Cayce reading identifying Jesus as the Adam of the Book of Genesis.]

" (ARIES 14): A SERPENT COILING NEAR A MAN AND A WOMAN.

KEYNOTE: Identification in bipolar relationship with the impersonal rhythm of natural energy.

The symbol for Phase 4 pictures a man and a woman in love walking together. At this new and more mentally stimulated level of experience and consciousness, a third factor appears: the serpent, whose coiling represents the spiral-like process of evolution - not merely "sex" according to the maker of cathartic symbols, Sigmund Freud. We can understand this "triangular" image man, woman and the serpent if we relate it to the preceding one in the series, the unexploded bomb of the anarchist or activist. The urge to blow up some structure which somehow has become in the activist's mind a symbol of the Establishment the ruling elite is usually the protest of an alienated and often immature mind that refuses relationship, because in the relationship he would occupy a subservient position. In this symbol, the serpent represents the acceptance of relationship by the two polarized human beings.

There must be a polarization before there can be fulfillment. The tragedy of so many contemporary lives is that, having become sharply individualized, the men and women cannot find their truly matching polar-opposite. Because they are not fulfilled at the root level of human emotions and vitalistic forces, they pass their lives seeking the ideal complement, often glamorized as the "soul mate." This search can find its expression at several levels. At the mystical level we have the examples of the "spiritual marriage" of Saint Francis of Assisi and Santa Clara, or recently of Sri Aurobindo and Mother Mira.

The Adam and Eve story (in Hebrew, Ish and Isha - much more significant names!) refers to this principle of polarization, although the story has been turned upside down by priestly intellects to serve their purposes. Adam and Eve accepted the Presence, not of the Tempter, but of the Individualizer, who sought to have them born out of the womb of unconscious passivity to Nature's God. But the result of the experience frightened them. They "hid"; they failed in the great test of individualization, and in this sense the archetype of that failure is deeply imbedded in man's generic unconscious. It is repeated time after time.

Modern "individuals" are confronted with another test, but they do not understand its meaning. It is the test of polarized conscious participation in the evolutionary process - a polarization that could dissolve alienation, isolation and egocentricity. In a sense at least, this was the old Tantric concept in India; but today many young people accept the concept only superficially and miss its real essence. They cannot understand the meaning of entering into the serpent, i.e. of developing eonic consciousness and that transpersonal living which once was characterized by the words: Not I live, but Christ lives me - Christ, whose symbolic number in Gnosticism is 888.

At this fourth stage of the third five-fold sequence, we are confronted with an image suggesting the transpersonal way to the "cosmification" of desire and the conscious acceptance of polarization as the solution of the problems generated by individualization. But this need not mean what is currently meant by "sex" and the glorification of the orgasm. It implies rather the RITUALIZATION OF RELATIONSHIP."

If Cayce's accounts are true [I don't doubt them, myself] then it makes perfect sense as the symbol for Lillith in Jesus/Yeshua's birth chart...as His soul had something He had to be secretive of...As Cayce said in answer to a question. [ reading #1092]
Q. When did the knowledge come to Jesus tha He was to become the Savior of the world?
A. When He fell in Eden.

At this present time, I understand this to mean, that because He was kicked out of Eden,[ and, possibly also, because, if the Christian Science Mystic is correct, He is also the father of Satan...} He was responsible for all subsequent generations of mankind being cast out also.
Possibly set the stage for subsequent sins...He died not for our sins [per se] but for HIS OWN and the sins of Man that followed as He was in Part [if not wholly] Responsible.
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

THE KING HAROD CONTROVERSY:
...I had recalled that there was evidence of King Harod having died in the AD and not in the BC as is the current opinion...[Blavatsky did say, and this is not verbatim...but is about word for word as I can recall..."Don' trust written History especially if the Romans had a hand in it"]


From Edagar Cayce reading #2067

...the following reading was given for a woman that Cayce had identified as the reincarnation as being King Harods' wife, Thesea...Cayces' mentioning two children is referring to Theseas' own children....


"Q. What vital statistics can be given for Thesea, Roman Queen of Palestine?

A. Beginning in 28 BC and extending to AD 6. As to the children, there were only two and neither of these became the ruler, but were associated with the ruler in a portion of the divided district.

The death [of Thesea, ptv] was brought about by the decrees issued before the carcinoma germs brought death to Harod himself---because of his aversion to her living beyond the period of Herod, and the order issued by him before his death." [This is saying that King Harod's wife, Thesea, died in 6 AD and that it was before Harods own death.]"
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Unread 07-15-2011, 03:57 PM
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

WOW< DID I ***** UP HERE...I APOLOGIZE THIS WAS AN ERROR I SOMEHOW GOT CONFUSED THE NIGHT I WROTE THIS AND POSTED THE CALCULATIONS FROM SOMONE ELSES CHART...THE BIZZARE THING IS THAT I DIDN'T NOTICE THAT THIS IS THE DEGREE FOR YESHUA'S NATAL MARS. ptv, 2/20/2012...the correct info will be posted post haste this evening look for a post on 2/21/2012 for correct info


I've neglected this thread for awhile. I want to introduce the Arabic Part that is called the Part of Lawsuits or Part of Disputes.
Afew years ago unaware that this Part had been recognized I asked my clairvoyant friend about this Part and how it should be so named. I had noticed that the formula is basically the opposite of that for what is known as the Part of Intelligence or Part of Skill or Part of Wisdom...I inquired if it should not be then so called the Part of Ignorance or Part of Lack of Wisdom...She replied; "i see it as the 'Part of Innocence'."
It has so far proven to my satisfaction that indeed it should be know as that...the Part of Innocence. [...in being 'Innocent' of knowing something... illustrated symbolically by the Sabian Symbol found at that degree...such 'not knowing'...could very easily be perceived as a 'Dispute'...]
The formula is Asc. + Mercury - Mars...for this Chart that I propose is that of Yeshua it comes to 18* Gemini 34'...i.e. the 19th degree of Gemini.]

from Rudhyar's book on the Sabian Symbols:

" (GEMINI 19): A LARGE ARCHAIC VOLUME REVEALS A TRADITIONAL WISDOM.

KEYNOTE: Contacting the all-human planetary Mind underlying any cultural and personal mentality.

Occult tradition tells us that all cyclic manifestations of the human mind have had a primordial revelatory Source. It speaks of ancient books made of especially treated papyrus leaves and conveying through symbols the archetypal processes at the root of all earthly existence (see Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine). Such volumes, said to remain in the possession of certain Adepts, constitute the "exteriorization" of archetypal knowledge and wisdom. They contain the "seed-ideas" from which the human mind grows, cyclically producing cultures of various types.

This fourth stage symbol evokes for us the "technique" by means of which the human mind can uncover the foundations of its nature and acquire what might be called SEED-KNOWLEDGE, the knowledge of the structure of cyclic and cosmic manifestations of life on this planet."


.well, that is interesting...as each person has a point of Innocence... a weakness...a debility as it is...it is most intriguing to fathom what Jesus/Yeshuas most likely had been.
This phrase "Seed Knowledge" is exactly the overall tenor of the birth chart of Rudhyar himself...in fact the very term and appropriate symbology is in a couple of significant degrees in Danes chart.
Thinking about it I can see plausibility here. Yeshua was always focused on the 'Above' ..The Divine...the Macro...not the Meso [or the Micro] so much...what 'seed knowledge' man can access and to what purpose it serves would probably be of little interest to Yeshua...he was all about 'awakening' people...bringing them to awareness and awareness and understanding of Divine seeds of knowledge...he need no tools of divination,,,amulets for protection or healing...no sigils or incantations as He could already portend, protect, heal, manifest, trans-mutate...etc.

interestingly President Obamas is the 28th of Sag and that degree is the Part ofr Tragedy or Fatality for Yeshua [Asc. + Saturn - Sun] it is about an Old Covered Bridge across a beautiful stream and represents an 'intercessor' to 'The Other Side"...and Rudhyars keywords for the symbology and degree is "The Beautiful Necessity"...and it is the Beautiful Necessity of Yeshuas life that he had to die physically a "Fatality" that had to be in order for Him to become that "Covered Bridge" [a protective intercessor] across the 'stream' to "The Beyond".
This along with Obamas Part of Imprisonment being the 19th of Pisces [it is symbolically 'that' which is kept from out approaching it...we are 'imprisoned from it'...and the 19th of Pisces being "The master Instructing the Discipile"...well, It certainly has given me cause to consider his Islamic upbringing and the question of His current spiritual orientation.
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Jesus' chart...the great astrology mystery of all-time. We'll probably never know, and really I think that's for the best, and that we weren't *meant* to know.
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by piercethevale View Post
I've neglected this thread for awhile. I want to introduce the Arabic Part that is called the Part of Lawsuits or Part of Disputes.
Afew years ago unaware that this Part had been recognized I asked my clairvoyant friend about this Part and how it should be so named. I had noticed that the formula is basically the opposite of that for what is known as the Part of Intelligence or Part of Skill or Part of Wisdom...I inquired if it should not be then so called the Part of Ignorance or Part of Lack of Wisdom...She replied; "i see it as the 'Part of Innocence'."
It has so far proven to my satisfaction that indeed it should be know as that...the Part of Innocence. [...in being 'Innocent' of knowing something... illustrated symbolically by the Sabian Symbol found at that degree...such 'not knowing'...could very easily be perceived as a 'Dispute'...]
The formula is Asc. + Mercury - Mars...for this Chart that I propose is that of Yeshua it comes to 18* Gemini 34'...i.e. the 19th degree of Gemini.]

from Rudhyar's book on the Sabian Symbols:

" (GEMINI 19): A LARGE ARCHAIC VOLUME REVEALS A TRADITIONAL WISDOM.

KEYNOTE: Contacting the all-human planetary Mind underlying any cultural and personal mentality.

Occult tradition tells us that all cyclic manifestations of the human mind have had a primordial revelatory Source. It speaks of ancient books made of especially treated papyrus leaves and conveying through symbols the archetypal processes at the root of all earthly existence (see Blavatsky's Secret Doctrine). Such volumes, said to remain in the possession of certain Adepts, constitute the "exteriorization" of archetypal knowledge and wisdom. They contain the "seed-ideas" from which the human mind grows, cyclically producing cultures of various types.

This fourth stage symbol evokes for us the "technique" by means of which the human mind can uncover the foundations of its nature and acquire what might be called SEED-KNOWLEDGE, the knowledge of the structure of cyclic and cosmic manifestations of life on this planet."


.well, that is interesting...as each person has a point of Innocence... a weakness...a debility as it is...it is most intriguing to fathom what Jesus/Yeshuas most likely had been.
This phrase "Seed Knowledge" is exactly the overall tenor of the birth chart of Rudhyar himself...in fact the very term and appropriate symbology is in a couple of significant degrees in Danes chart.
Thinking about it I can see plausibility here. Yeshua was always focused on the 'Above' ..The Divine...the Macro...not he Meso so much...what 'seed knowledge' man can access and to what purpose it serves would probably be of little interest to Yeshua...he was all about 'awakening' people...bringing them to awareness and awareness and understanding of Divine seeds of knowledge...he need no tools of divination,,,amulets for protection or healing...no sigils or incantations as He could already portend, protect, heal, manifest, trans-mutate...etc.

interestingly President Obamas is the 28th of Sag and that degree is the Part ofr Tragedy or Fatality for Yeshua [Asc. + Saturn - Sun] it is about an Old Covered Bridge across a beautiful stream and represents an 'intercessor' to 'The Other Side"...and Rudhyars keywords for the symbology and degree is "The Beautiful Necessity"...and it is the Beautiful Necessity of Yeshuas life that he had to die physically a "Fatality" that had to be in order for Him to become that "Covered Bridge" [a protective intercessor] across the 'stream' to "The Beyond".
This along with Obamas Part of Imprisonment being the 19th of Pisces [it is symbolically 'that' which is kept from out approaching it...we are 'imprisoned from it'...and the 19th of Pisces being "The master Instructing the Discipile"...well, It certainly has given me cause to consider his Islamic upbringing and the question of His current spiritual orientation.
I'd be interested in seeing the chart of Obama's long time pastor that he has since separated himself from after all the hub-bub.

My own rising is Pisces 18.....maybe that's why I've never been an Obama fan.

You sure have a lot more "parts" than I've seen before. I'd love to know how to calculate the ones you mention.
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Re: Birth chart of Jesus?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy Vir Sn Ari Mn Pis Ris View Post
I'd be interested in seeing the chart of Obama's long time pastor that he has since separated himself from after all the hub-bub.

My own rising is Pisces 18.....maybe that's why I've never been an Obama fan.

You sure have a lot more "parts" than I've seen before. I'd love to know how to calculate the ones you mention.
I've got the Winstar Express Astrology software from matrix...it has a 'Parts' calculator that includes a great many Parts...more than I've seen before...or have yet to utilize. The nomenclature of the Parts is somewhat disorienting..as names of Parts go by ...but that is the rule not the exception...and is why I've been on a quest ...as of late...to determine a more appropriate 'Title' for some of the Parts as a number of them are mis-leading.
Obama's Part of catastrophe is the 1st degree of Pisces ...and the 'Keyword' [Rudhyar's] for that degree is 'Commerce'...if that doesn't illustrate why the Sabian Symbols are so 'right on' then I don't know what. [I've tried every other set of symbols that have been proposed and none of them work with a slight exception to the Kominsky symbols of which just a few seem to have some semblance to the Sabians...but I would suggest even leaving those be...at least until one has mastered the understanding of the Sabians.
Thanks for your input Amy...and your observations.
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