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  #1  
Unread 11-25-2010, 11:55 PM
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Nibiru in Natal Chart??

I was looking at the list of hypothetical planets on astro.com and I saw Nibiru in the list! Nibiru is just a theory, a 2012 apocalypse story. Why would it be important to a natal or transit chart?? Could someone shed some light on this for me?

Thanks.

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Unread 11-26-2010, 12:23 AM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris View Post
I was looking at the list of hypothetical planets on astro.com and I saw Nibiru in the list!
Great. That just makes me want to vomit all over the place. Talk about pandering.

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Originally Posted by chris View Post
Nibiru is just a theory, a 2012 apocalypse story.
Well, no, there is a very solid factual basis. Unfortunately, as is often the case, people have hijacked the original theory and perverted it into a botched abortion for purposes of making money or because they are attention-wh- uh, attention mongers, attention-seekers.

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Why would it be important to a natal or transit chart?? Could someone shed some light on this for me?
It wouldn't be. It just shows you how sad and pathetic the state of astrology has become.

It's time for a war.
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Unread 11-26-2010, 01:51 AM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

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Originally Posted by BobZemco View Post
Great. That just makes me want to vomit all over the place. Talk about pandering.



Well, no, there is a very solid factual basis. Unfortunately, as is often the case, people have hijacked the original theory and perverted it into a botched abortion for purposes of making money or because they are attention-wh- uh, attention mongers, attention-seekers.



It wouldn't be. It just shows you how sad and pathetic the state of astrology has become.

It's time for a war.
Well, Nibiru is a hypothetical planet. Just as the Trans-Uranian planets are. If it is in the list, it HAS to have a proposed effect on us, just as the other hypothetical planets do.
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Natal Chart:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/8926947/astr...27336.5152.gif

Sun in Cancer, Moon in Taurus, Sagittarius Rising
Sun, Mercury, and Venus in the 7th house! Look out ladies :P
My blog:
http://trailingthestars.blogspot.com

Ascendant 6 Sagittarius: Cupid knocks on the door of a human heart.
Descendant 6 Gemini: Workmen drilling for oil.
Midheaven 11 Virgo: A boy moulded in his mother's aspirations for him
IC 11 Pisces: Men traveling a narrow path, seeking illumination.
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Unread 11-26-2010, 03:36 AM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

Nibiru is supposed to be 10th planet by Sumerians. I won't say hypothetical, because it is stated and depicted at so many places. All other nine planets by Sumerians are fact; Uranus, Neptune and Pluto are discovered recently. So Nibiru can come closer and be discovered.

Its position is based on its hypothetical time of arrival. Since it is distant planet, it is almost fixed around 20-25 degrees of Taurus. It is almost fixed in sky, so really it does not have Astrological significance as Planet.

However if arrival time changes, its position will be recalculated.
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  #5  
Unread 11-26-2010, 05:09 PM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

If Nibiru is a planet, then most of what is said about it must be inaccurate. I've seen a few lists of attributes for it. One list stated that its mass is more than 20 times that of Earth, yet its gravity is less than twice that of Earth. The first thing I thought after reading that list is, "Wow, they must think that planet is made of cotton candy!"

I find it interesting that the Sumerians mentioned it as a 10th planet. Do you know of any good, specific sources, dhundhun?
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Unread 11-26-2010, 06:55 PM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

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I find it interesting that the Sumerians mentioned it as a 10th planet. Do you know of any good, specific sources, dhundhun?
Understanding comes from interpretation of Sumerian Tablets:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zecharia_Sitchin
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_...n_astronomy%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anunnaki

http://conspiracyrealitytv.com/ancie...anet-x-nibiru/
http://hubpages.com/hub/annunaki

In tablets also describe, how humans created by Annunaki through genetic engineering.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N75dnWneLgw
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Unread 11-26-2010, 07:46 PM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

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Well, Nibiru is a hypothetical planet.
No, it is not a hypothetical Planet. If the source of your information is not the Journal of Ancient Near Eastern Texts, American Journal of Semitic Languages, Journal of Near Eastern Studies, Journal of Cuneiform Texts or the Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society, then whatever your reading about Nibiru is corrupted, false and erroneous.

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Just as the Trans-Uranian planets are. If it is in the list, it HAS to have a proposed effect on us, just as the other hypothetical planets do.
Nothing hypothetical can have a real effect. You can make up whatever names you want. It's showmanship, not astrology.

Some people just have to be different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
If Nibiru is a planet, then most of what is said about it must be inaccurate. I've seen a few lists of attributes for it. One list stated that its mass is more than 20 times that of Earth, yet its gravity is less than twice that of Earth. The first thing I thought after reading that list is, "Wow, they must think that planet is made of cotton candy!"
Like I said, if information isn't a direct quote from one of the professional peer-reviewed journals I mentioned then the information isn't valid.

Unfortunately, I only have my laptop with me, but as I recall, the Planet is described in several texts dating from circa 3400 BCE and then again circa 1500 BCE. The description of the Planet as it rises in relation to the other Planets mentioned in the texts shows that it does not have a circular orbit like the Planets, rather it has an highly-elliptical orbit much like a comet.

It is also inclined to the Plane of the Ecliptic and by quite a lot, more than Pluto (which is inclined by about 15 +/- depending on where Pluto is in its orbit). It first appears in the southern skies, so if you were in the Southern Hemisphere or close to the Equator, you'd see it long before people in the Northern Hemisphere would. Its orbital motion is clock-wise, that it is if you were on Nibiru the Sun would rise in the west, not the east. The Sun rises in the east because Earth (and the rest of the Planets) move counter-clockwise around the Sun. The texts also imply that the Planet's speed increases, which would be logical since something in an highly elliptical orbit would have its orbital speed increase due to the acceleration of gravity as it approaches the Sun (just like a comet's speed increases).

That's all that is factually known. Anything else is pure speculation. It's described as having an orange-red glow about it. A terrestrial planet with a larger mass would have an higher concentration (density) of Noble Gases in the outer atmosphere. Earth has Argon, Neon, Krypton and few others but in very low concentration. In theory as the Planet approached the Sun the solar radiation (photons) would excite the valence electrons in the Noble Gases and could cause it to glow like that in the same way a neon-light works. Again, I don't know that for a fact, I'm just trying to use science to logically explain something. It's mass could be 3 to 4 times that of Earth, but 20 times is a little ridiculous.

Because of its highly elliptical orbit, it would be near impossible to find until it was right on top of our Solar System. The only way you could find it is assuming you know almost exactly where to look, you'd have to point your observatory telescope in that direction and photograph the night sky every night for about 6 to 12 years (or longer) in hopes that it passed in front of a star/galaxy and blocked the light of that star/galaxy as it passed.
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  #8  
Unread 11-27-2010, 07:19 PM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

Well, considering those ancient astronomers/astrologers, they probably recorded somewhere the next calculated appearance according to their own calendar or some other events. Little good is done by describing things like this without also giving a frame through which it can relate to life on Earth, like a return year. Surely they would have recorded such a thing if they knew when the return would be. Are there any indications that we have such information available to us?

P.S. If anyone says "2012," I'll expect that you have a damned good reason for saying it!

P.P.S. Thanks for the all the information thus far.
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  #9  
Unread 11-29-2010, 06:27 AM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

It's more like a brown dwarf star which our star probably has 2.
Where?
Nasa knows but they are keeping it secret.
It influenced Uranus in 1821 by 1 degree. Maybe in Capricorn.

Jim
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Unread 02-06-2011, 08:47 PM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

Nibiru isn't merely a myth... it's impossible. I did an entire show about this:

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/matthew...with-astrology

And waited and waited and waited for someone to tell me where I was wrong. Any takers?
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Unread 02-07-2011, 09:09 PM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

If there is a Nibiru, how would you know where it is? The only reason we can calculate the trajectories of the planets we now know is the fact that we can see them for long periods of time. If you can't see it, how do you track it? Given the characteristics described above, it sounds more like an huge comet than a planet.
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Unread 02-07-2011, 10:57 PM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

...and comets, because of their highly eccentric orbits, are easily pulled off course by gravitational interactions. So even if there WAS a Nibiru pass by us 3600 years ago, how could anyone predict when (or if) it would be back after having passed that close to Earth?
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Unread 02-15-2011, 06:07 AM
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Question Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

Interesting conversation. One question: I don't know anything about astrology, even though it's fascinating; but if planet Nibiru were a real planet, in an elliptical orbit, would it not pass the earth twice, once in each direction, on each side of Earth? So the 3600 year theory is one way, meaning it's orbit should be approx 7200 years? I mean, if it passed 3600 years previous to 2012, shouldn't we have seen some portion of the rest of it's orbit before now? Or is it passing here again on the second 1/2 of it's orbit? Does this question make sense at all?
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Unread 02-15-2011, 08:35 PM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

I would assume that the time given would refer to the time it takes to complete one full orbit. That would, by definition, include two passes by the Earth on each run. So, doubling the number shouldn't be necessary. Even if such adjustment was needed, simply doubling the number would give erroneous results because the Earth would be passed once on each side of the perihelion (closest to the Sun) point of the orbit.

It seems to me that Nibiru, according to description, could only be partially material, if not completely etheric. Either that or it's porous/hollow like a comet. It's difficult to say anything about this hypothetical body as long as it is still hypothetical. We won't be able to say anything about it until we can actually find it by whatever means. One good measurement would be worth infinitely more than a thousand speculations.
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Unread 02-16-2011, 05:29 AM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

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Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I would assume that the time given would refer to the time it takes to complete one full orbit. That would, by definition, include two passes by the Earth on each run. So, doubling the number shouldn't be necessary. Even if such adjustment was needed, simply doubling the number would give erroneous results because the Earth would be passed once on each side of the perihelion (closest to the Sun) point of the orbit.

It seems to me that Nibiru, according to description, could only be partially material, if not completely etheric. Either that or it's porous/hollow like a comet. It's difficult to say anything about this hypothetical body as long as it is still hypothetical. We won't be able to say anything about it until we can actually find it by whatever means. One good measurement would be worth infinitely more than a thousand speculations.
If we could actually find Nibiru instead of all this 2012 doomsday **** related to it, I would be extremely awed.

Obviously the Sumerians saw it or they wouldn't have it in their tablets.
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Sun in Cancer, Moon in Taurus, Sagittarius Rising
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My blog:
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Ascendant 6 Sagittarius: Cupid knocks on the door of a human heart.
Descendant 6 Gemini: Workmen drilling for oil.
Midheaven 11 Virgo: A boy moulded in his mother's aspirations for him
IC 11 Pisces: Men traveling a narrow path, seeking illumination.
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Unread 02-16-2011, 06:00 AM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

Of course the Sumerians saw "Nibiru." That's what they called Jupiter. Only Sitchin disagrees. And if it were hollow and had little gravitational effect, it wouldn't generate a disaster of the proportions predicted.

ALSO... If the Sumerians understood Kepler's Three Laws Of Orbital Dynamics (not "theories" people... LAWS) they'd know that "Nibiru's" interactions with with Earth's gravity would ***** up its orbit, thus making its return unlikely... or at least, hardly predictable.

The whole subject of Nibiru screams out for less paranoia, and more science. Q: Why haven't a thousand amateur astronomers seen a Jupiter sized object, hollow or not, within Saturn's orbit coming at us yet? A: Because it doesn't exist.

"One good measurement would be worth infinitely more than a thousand speculations"? Damned right. Honestly, believing in such nonsense makes us all look stupid in the eyes of the "skeptics"... and they have a point, much as I hate to agree.

And, Bjorkstrand? Listen to my show. I posted the link above. Tell me where I'm wrong.

Last edited by Matthew The Astrologer; 02-16-2011 at 06:07 AM.
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Unread 02-16-2011, 07:37 AM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

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Originally Posted by Matthew The Astrologer View Post
Of course the Sumerians saw "Nibiru." That's what they called Jupiter. Only Sitchin disagrees. And if it were hollow and had little gravitational effect, it wouldn't generate a disaster of the proportions predicted.

ALSO... If the Sumerians understood Kepler's Three Laws Of Orbital Dynamics (not "theories" people... LAWS) they'd know that "Nibiru's" interactions with with Earth's gravity would ***** up its orbit, thus making its return unlikely... or at least, hardly predictable.

The whole subject of Nibiru screams out for less paranoia, and more science. Q: Why haven't a thousand amateur astronomers seen a Jupiter sized object, hollow or not, within Saturn's orbit coming at us yet? A: Because it doesn't exist.

"One good measurement would be worth infinitely more than a thousand speculations"? Damned right. Honestly, believing in such nonsense makes us all look stupid in the eyes of the "skeptics"... and they have a point, much as I hate to agree.

And, Bjorkstrand? Listen to my show. I posted the link above. Tell me where I'm wrong.
It would be a very lengthy amount of time to spot a planet with a highly elliptical orbit such as this theoretical "Nibiru."

If "Nibiru" exists, and has a highly elliptical orbit as they theorize it does, it would be definitely hard to find even for the top astronomers.
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Sun in Cancer, Moon in Taurus, Sagittarius Rising
Sun, Mercury, and Venus in the 7th house! Look out ladies :P
My blog:
http://trailingthestars.blogspot.com

Ascendant 6 Sagittarius: Cupid knocks on the door of a human heart.
Descendant 6 Gemini: Workmen drilling for oil.
Midheaven 11 Virgo: A boy moulded in his mother's aspirations for him
IC 11 Pisces: Men traveling a narrow path, seeking illumination.
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Unread 02-16-2011, 08:13 PM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

Astronomers... especially amateur ones, of which their are thousands... point their telescopes in every direction, not just the plane of the ecliptic. In fact. a lot of amateur astronomers don't bother with that direction because the asteroids that way have largely been spotted, and amateurs LOVE making new discoveries. A comet, on the other hand, can come in from any direction. Amateur astronomers all LOVE the idea of being the first one to spot an incoming comet. Ask one.

Also, an object the size of Jupiter (or Mars for that matter) within the orbit of Saturn (as it would have to be if it's on a 3600 year orbit and is almost at perihelion now) wouldn't even require a telescope to see by this point in its orbit. Never mind everything I said on my show (did you listen to the above link?) about how Kepler's Three Laws of orbital dynamics would make such a hugely stretched out elliptical orbit so very, very prone to gravitational interactions from other bodies that... even if it DID rampage through the Solar System 3600 hundred years ago, it would be pretty much impossible... even with supercomputers... to predict when it would return on its new orbit (or if it would at all) after a close encounter with Earth.

But of course, lots of people in the Southern Hemisphere like looking at the night sky, even without a telescope. They can't ALL be part of a vast conspiracy to hide the truth, can they?

Last edited by Matthew The Astrologer; 02-16-2011 at 08:14 PM. Reason: spelling
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Unread 02-16-2011, 08:32 PM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

It seems that one big obstacle in our way is the fact that we really don't even know what we should be looking for in the sky. IF this planet(oid) is the size of Jupiter and is any colour other than pitch black, it would definitely be visible to the naked eye within 10 AU or so. IF it is a small thing, it could creep up on us without anyone noticing. IF it is porous/hollow/etheric, then there is no certainty of predictable gravitational impact on Earth anyway, so it could only be astrologically valuable (barring an impact). IF it's orbit is away from the ecliptic, it could come from almost any direction. It looks to me that we don't know when to look where for what. This makes it seem likely that the only way to discover Nibiru is to repeatedly spot new things in the sky, finding everything you can see, until you find something that fits the description by brute force. But then, what is the description? How should it look?

In order to determine any kind of value or meaning, we need to know the planet(oid) we're discussing. There can be no astronomical nor astrological value assigned to it until we have the ability to know when it is where. So, it looks to be the case that only astronomy can give meaning to Nibiru. The first step is finding it.
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Unread 02-16-2011, 09:04 PM
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Re: Nibiru in Natal Chart??

Good points. Not spotting it at this point (either visually or by gravitational effects) would appear to imply that it's a smallish, hollowish, unreflective object... which doesn't match anything we've encountered before. Unless of course they're rebuilt the Death Star and painted it black. In which case, we can only assume Luke Skywalker and the gang will come to our rescue.
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