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  #126  
Unread 01-17-2020, 10:09 AM
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Re: Orb-influence

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Your version of astrology is too different from mine to make overall sense to me on the first take. I did get the gist of it, but the Aspects aren't of the usual sort. How do you define an Aspect? I understand enough to be able to incorporate a relatively short, succinct description. They seem to radiate from the Angles rather than from planet to planet. What Orb do you allow for the Angles?.
Whee did you get this weird idea that three different frames of reference - ecliptic, planets and house systems have to be measured in the same way? I use Placidus and ecliptical aspects with Asc and Mc by 15 degree on either side at the same time. I give an alternative explanation for aspects as a plausible schematic phenomenon, not radiating phenomenon with occult rays, but I am fine with both explanations. Aspects were mostly called ''configurations'' (schemata) by the Greeks, though they did use the visual and judicial metaphors (''regard'' and ''testify'') a lot too.


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  #127  
Unread 01-17-2020, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by petosiris View Post
Whee did you get this weird idea that three different frames of reference - ecliptic, planets and house systems have to be measured in the same way? I use Placidus and ecliptical aspects with Asc and Mc by 15 degree on either side at the same time. I give an alternative explanation for aspects as a plausible schematic phenomenon, not radiating phenomenon with occult rays, but I am fine with both explanations. Aspects were mostly called ''configurations'' (schemata) by the Greeks, though they did use the visual metaphors a lot.
Planetary positions are located on the Ecliptic, using lines of celestial longitude. So, the Ecliptic is the frame of reference for the planets. The Angles are also on the Ecliptic, and locate the Houses. So, the Ecliptic is the basic frame of reference for all three.
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  #128  
Unread 01-17-2020, 10:22 AM
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Re: Orb-influence

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Planetary positions are located on the Ecliptic, using lines of celestial longitude. So, the Ecliptic is the frame of reference for the planets. The Angles are also on the Ecliptic, and locate the Houses. So, the Ecliptic is the basic frame of reference for all three.
Yet, signs take 30 degrees, planets take individual degrees and Placidus houses take unequal degrees based on their local daily arc expressed in time. Your point being?

Angles are not on the ecliptic and are totally unrelated to it, we take the intersection of the local horizon and prime meridian with the ecliptic to find the angles, but we are mixing two different reference frames for convenience sake, to my understanding.

Last edited by petosiris; 01-17-2020 at 10:45 AM.
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  #129  
Unread 01-17-2020, 10:52 AM
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Yet, signs take 30 degrees, planets take individual degrees and Placidus houses take unequal degrees based on their local daily arc expressed in time. Your point being?

Angles are not on the ecliptic and are totally unrelated to it, we take the intersection of the local horizon and prime meridian with the ecliptic to find the angles to my understanding.
Well, the Ascendant is the intersection of the Eastern horizon with the Ecliptic. The M.C. is the intersection of the Meridian that runs due South (due North in the Southern hemisphere) with the Ecliptic. So, the Ascendant is the exact point of Sunrise along the Ecliptic. The M.C. is the highest the Sun can rise above the horizon at any given time of year, translated down onto the Ecliptic using a longitudinal meridian.
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  #130  
Unread 01-17-2020, 10:55 AM
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Re: Orb-influence

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Well, the Ascendant is the intersection of the Eastern horizon with the Ecliptic. The M.C. is the intersection of the Meridian that runs due South (due North in the Southern hemisphere) with the Ecliptic. So, the Ascendant is the exact point of Sunrise along the Ecliptic. The M.C. is the highest the Sun can rise above the horizon at any given time of year, translated down onto the Ecliptic using a longitudinal meridian.
Yeah, two different motions - Sun makes annual and daily revolutions around the Earth.
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  #131  
Unread 01-17-2020, 11:08 AM
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Since the topic is the Orb-influence of a planet on the Signs neighboring the Sign a planet happens to be transiting, extending past the Sign-boundaries at the cusps, and partially activating those Sign-qualities prior to the actual ingress of its Longitudinal-point into those neighboring Signs, we seem to have gotten off track.
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  #132  
Unread 01-17-2020, 11:10 AM
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Re: Orb-influence

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Since the topic is the Orb-influence of a planet on the Signs neighboring the Sign a planet happens to be transiting, extending past the Sign-boundaries at the cusps, and partially activating those Sign-qualities prior to the actual ingress of its Longitudinal-point into those neighboring Signs, we seem to have gotten off track.
''This thread shows an utter disregard for geometry and the polarity of adjacent signs. Something either is the first masculine sign of spring or the last feminine sign of winter, easily demarcated by the marker of the equinox that nature has put there. And no thinking astrologer has ever thought of this ridiculous notion of creating own markers for thousands of years!''
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  #133  
Unread 01-17-2020, 11:48 AM
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''This thread shows an utter disregard for geometry and the polarity of adjacent signs. Something either is the first masculine sign of spring or the last feminine sign of winter, easily demarcated by the marker of the equinox that nature has put there. And no thinking astrologer has ever thought of this ridiculous notion of creating own markers for thousands of years!''
So, this idea is VERY ancient! A lot of ancient ideas seem ridiculous in the light of more recent Ages.
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  #134  
Unread 01-17-2020, 11:52 AM
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Smile Re: Orb-influence

Most modern-day astronomers think that astrology itself, is a ridiculous, ancient notion.
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  #135  
Unread 01-17-2020, 11:57 AM
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Well, how do the 8 Sign-boundaries that AREN'T demarcated by the Angles preclude the crossing over of planetary Orb-influence, in your opinion?
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  #136  
Unread 01-17-2020, 12:44 PM
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Re: Orb-influence

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Well, how do the 8 Sign-boundaries that AREN'T demarcated by the Angles preclude the crossing over of planetary Orb-influence, in your opinion?
The seasons are divided into exactly three signs for many physical reasons, the two most important of which are that there are roughly twelve (not roughly 11 and not roughly 13) lunar months in a year, and that are exactly twelve cosmobiological qualitative differences that humans, animals and plants are most attuned to - https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...90&postcount=5. (The beginning, middle and end of the seasons are most important and most easily differentiated, and with the end of the previous season, which is dual, form a pattern of four, which number is the elemental foundation of the universe.) Thirdly, you can see a pattern forming also from the triangles, for every season lacks the wind that its element lacks - spring lacks drying eastern wind, summer lacks cooling northern wind, autumn lacks moistening western wind and winter lacks heating southern wind. Obviously cold hot signs (fiery water) and dry moist signs (earthy air) such as present in your system are utterly nonsensical.

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  #137  
Unread 01-17-2020, 01:16 PM
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Re: Orb-influence

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Originally Posted by david starling View Post
Most modern-day astronomers think that astrology itself, is a ridiculous, ancient notion.

I don't, using the ecliptic works both ways and the planets are so near the apparent path of the Sun, the difference is very small, i don't like using the ecliptic for fixed stars though.


It only works when stars actually sit on the ecliptic.
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  #138  
Unread 01-17-2020, 01:19 PM
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Re: Orb-influence

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Most modern-day astronomers think

that astrology itself, is a ridiculous, ancient notion.
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Originally Posted by Monk View Post
I don't, using the ecliptic works both ways and the planets
are so near the apparent path of the Sun,
the difference is very small,

i don't like using the ecliptic for fixed stars though.
It only works when stars actually sit on the ecliptic.
Hi Monk

for fixed stars, parans work well
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  #139  
Unread 01-17-2020, 01:22 PM
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Re: Orb-influence

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I don't, using the ecliptic works both ways and the planets are so near the apparent path of the Sun, the difference is very small, i don't like using the ecliptic for fixed stars though.


It only works when stars actually sit on the ecliptic.
Moon, Venus and Mercury travel pretty far from the ecliptic compared to some fixed stars so a natural explanation has to also justify their separation (?). The reason we use ecliptical and not horizontal projection is that the ecliptic has to do with the non-daily orbits of the planets that take into account daylight AND distances from other signs and planets together/holistically. Because the horizontal projection of the Moon may be in conjunction with the Ascendant (moonrise) and in square with Saturn, but in two hours the second aspect may disappear through the difference of mundane position, which is illogical when you think about what the ecliptic and an aspect represent in the spherical cosmos - their cosmic positions and daylight did not change, only their natal and hourly position changed, which is already accounted by a house system like Placidus, but which does not account for the cosmic positions throughout the day - the ecliptic does.

Last edited by petosiris; 01-17-2020 at 01:41 PM.
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  #140  
Unread 01-17-2020, 10:33 PM
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Smile Re: Orb-influence

Interesting group on this thread. We're each "doing our own thing", astrologically speaking, regardless of what anyone else thinks; and, willing to discuss it with anyone really interested.
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  #141  
Unread 01-17-2020, 10:41 PM
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Re: Orb-influence

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Interesting group on this thread. We're each "doing our own thing", astrologically speaking, regardless of what anyone else thinks; and, willing to discuss it with anyone really interested.
That is incorrect, we are all speaking English.
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  #142  
Unread 01-17-2020, 10:45 PM
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That is incorrect, we are all speaking English.
Yeah, but....English is the official World-language.
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  #143  
Unread 01-17-2020, 10:46 PM
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Yeah, but....English is the official World-language.
Except when it comes to "soccer". But that's only American English.
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  #144  
Unread 01-17-2020, 10:57 PM
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Except when it comes to "soccer". But that's only American English.
British (!) English is the world's official language.
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  #145  
Unread 01-17-2020, 11:16 PM
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The seasons are divided into exactly three signs for many physical reasons, the two most important of which are that there are roughly twelve (not roughly 11 and not roughly 13) lunar months in a year, and that are exactly twelve cosmobiological qualitative differences that humans, animals and plants are most attuned to - https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...90&postcount=5. (The beginning, middle and end of the seasons are most important and most easily differentiated, and with the end of the previous season, which is dual, form a pattern of four, which number is the elemental foundation of the universe.) Thirdly, you can see a pattern forming also from the triangles, for every season lacks the wind that its element lacks - spring lacks drying eastern wind, summer lacks cooling northern wind, autumn lacks moistening western wind and winter lacks heating southern wind. Obviously cold hot signs (fiery water) and dry moist signs (earthy air) such as present in your system are utterly nonsensical.
No hot cold signs! Either hot or cold! 12 months, not more, not less!
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  #146  
Unread 01-17-2020, 11:20 PM
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Re: Orb-influence

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Yeah, but....English is the official World-language.


actually an official language, also called state language
is a language given a special legal status in a particular country
or state, or other jurisdiction.
Typically a country's official language refers to
the language used in government, judiciary, legislature, administration

i.e.
The term "official language"
does not typically refer to the language used by a people
or country,
but by its government,
because
"the means of expression of a people cannot be changed by any law"

178 countries of the world recognize an official language
101 of them recognizing more than one.
The government of Italy officialised Italian only in 1999
and some nations
such as the United States
have never declared official languages at the national level.
The Philippines and parts of Africa live with a peculiar cultural paradox.
Although the official languages in Africa may be French or English
these are not the languages most widely spoken by the country's residents.
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  #147  
Unread 01-17-2020, 11:24 PM
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Re: Orb-influence

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British (!) English is the world's official language.
There are roughly 6,500 spoken languages in the world today.
However, about 2,000 of those languages have fewer than 1,000 speakers.
The most popular language in the world is Mandarin Chinese.
There are 1,213,000,000 people in the world speaking Mandarin Chinese .
According to Enthologue English is the most spoken language
in the world if you count native and second-language speakers
and it is spoken by 1.1 billion people.
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  #148  
Unread 01-17-2020, 11:34 PM
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British (!) English is the world's official language.
To Americans, they have an accent. American slang is worldwide, okay!?
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  #149  
Unread 01-17-2020, 11:35 PM
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No hot cold signs! Either hot or cold! 12 months, not more, not less!
Cold + Hot = Warm
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  #150  
Unread 01-17-2020, 11:50 PM
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Re: Orb-influence

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Cold + Hot = Warm

https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...&postcount=136

Quote:
Originally Posted by petosiris View Post


The seasons are divided into exactly three signs for many physical reasons, the two most important of which are that there are roughly twelve (not roughly 11 and not roughly 13) lunar months in a year, and that are exactly twelve cosmobiological qualitative differences that humans, animals and plants are most attuned to - https://www.astrologyweekly.com/foru...90&postcount=5. (The beginning, middle and end of the seasons are most important and most easily differentiated, and with the end of the previous season, which is dual, form a pattern of four, which number is the elemental foundation of the universe.) Thirdly, you can see a pattern forming also from the triangles, for every season lacks the wind that its element lacks - spring lacks drying eastern wind, summer lacks cooling northern wind, autumn lacks moistening western wind and winter lacks heating southern wind. Obviously cold hot signs (fiery water) and dry moist signs (earthy air) such as present in your system are utterly nonsensical.
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