Random astrological comments

Yanel

Yanel

Well-known member
StillConfused said:
Hey Yanel,

to get an idea of where your planets are relative to the constellations, on astrodienst, on the Extended Chart Selection page, where it says "chart drawing style",

instead of
Web default style

pick:
Astrodienst Fixed Stars

It shows the elliptic with the constellations. You can also see if any of your planets are actually far off the elliptic. Asteroids usually are, but planets such as the Moon and Pluto sometimes are closer to the elliptic, and sometimes are further.

Also with regards to zodiac systems, as you may know I am now a student of Vedic astrology. Not an astrologer with 30 years of experience but here is my opinion.

I think you nearly hit jack pot when you said that your tropical ascendant is acceptable with regards to how you act, but your sidereal ascendent feels real inside.

My opinion for a while now has been, tropical astrology is ego-based, and sidereal astrology is more organic and has an inevitable feel to it. That's why tropical can be accurate with regards to behavior (after all, it Western astrology is Sun-based and the Sun represents pride and authority, things that factor into image and popularity) but I can't help but want to work with the sidereal zodiac because it feels right.

I had such a hard time in the beginning because I was under the impression that one was right, and the other was wrong. They just work on different dimensions of ourselves, and anyone who thinks (feeling that self-righteous passion again!!) that they can't be two signs at once needs a lecture in human complexity and identity layers!!

To find the one you prefer, quite honestly I think you're having a hard time choosing because you've given too much of your power away to external opinions, and I can totally relate if that is the case. Sorry, I agree that you have to choose, and that it is that simple, because the answers that are right for you ARE inside you. There is no single right way that can be carved out for you without your own experience. However, I get where you are, and I'll share my way of studying this objectively when it gets hard to.

Look to the IC/MC axis. This can be separated from the ego because it's based on fact...somewhat more based on fact. It's about how you were born and raised, and how your family life and childhood influences the things you want from your life and who you've become. In my experience, the sidereal zodiac will give the more literal experience, whereas the tropical zodiac gives a more individual psychological experience.


EDIT: PS. just for the record ... remember that Grand Water Trine we had last summer between Saturn, Neptune, and Jupiter, that astrologers were going crazy about?? How did you experience the water, anyone?

Personally I felt both water and air, but a lot of air... because I was battling feelings of rejection by someone but I was also doing a shitload of research and getting my driver's liscence so any watery energy there was out there to feed on I must have numbed out.
Click to expand...

So if Vedic astrology digs deeper, then what is the ascendant meaning according to it? In Western the Sun is the closest energy to you, your inner self and I don't agree with this, I don't see the Sun as such an important indicator at all. In my chart and life, my Sun has so little saying for anything I feel and I am, that it's an almost invisible and non-existing influence. Not to anyone the Sun means something and if in the individual chart it's important, it's still not the true you, it's not your soul, like many astrologers say. Personally, I feel the influence only of my Moon, Mars, probably Venus and all of the outer planets without Jupiter. I feel the outer planets as very personal energies, much more important for me than the traditional inner planets.

I'm sure my Taurus ascendant is how other see me when being in a face to face contact - calm, quiet, steady(and also like a Scorpio. According to astrology Scorpio is not a strong sign in my chart but the energy of the Taurus/Scorpio axis is certainly felt by most of the people I know when I am around them. And not only by them but that's another topic...). But when I am making a contact through writing, like now, it's another thing - I can be a lot more direct. Is it just a normal human psychological thing or is it my Aries ascendant in Vedic astrology? When I started researching astrology I used another time zone for my birth chart and things were different. For a long time I believed my ascendant was in Aries and it felt so right but I knew that if you come and see me(without speaking to me) for the first time, I'd be so quiet and calm, looking at something only I can see - a void look, like only my body is in the here and now(and that is true in a way xD). Then I understood that I was using the wrong time zone(not my fault) and things got clearer. In Vedic, it's still in Aries and I don't know what it could possibly mean for me and my first house. Aside from the ascendant, I don't have anything in the first house or in the Eastern hemisphere(except for Saturn but Saturn is in 12th house. Saturn and Pluto are the hidden me but they are also the closest to me) and I don't show almost anything to the people around me. Maybe just Uranus manages to show itself outside the door but that is, nothing, nobody knows me, even relatives.
Also, is it true that the outer planes don't play a role in Vedic astrology? If it is,it's so sad, they are my favourites.:biggrin:

No, I don't remember anything about that trine. I don't have much respect for transits xD.
P.S./EDIT Yes, I know they, Western and Vedic astrology, are different and you can use both of them and find truth in both of them but I am the kind of person that wants to completely dive into something and completely become that thing. I like making big choices, they are rare but feel so ecstatic. When I divide my attention and interest to many things, it doesn't feel good, the one starts to compete witht the other, they start fighting, they don't want to share because it's never only the mind involved, I just can't seek for knowledge without the drama and without involving everything in me in the process. From an interesting tool, anything can become a weapon and in the end...no, there isn't an end. Every thought, feeling or obsession comes back to hunt me and "ask" for rebirth.:pouty:
 
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StillConfused

StillConfused

Well-known member
Yanel said:
So if Vedic astrology digs deeper, then what is the ascendant meaning according to it? In Western the Sun is the closest energy to you, your inner self and I don't agree with this, I don't see the Sun as such an important indicator at all. In my chart and life, my Sun has so little saying for anything I feel and I am, that it's an almost invisible and non-existing influence. Not to anyone the Sun means something and if in the individual chart it's important, it's still not the true you, it's not your soul, like many astrologers say. Personally, I feel the influence only of my Moon, Mars, probably Venus and all of the outer planets without Jupiter. I feel the outer planets as very personal energies, much more important for me than the traditional inner planets.

I'm sure my Taurus ascendant is how other see me when being in a face to face contact - calm, quiet, steady(and also like a Scorpio. According to astrology Scorpio is not a strong sign in my chart but the energy of the Taurus/Scorpio axis is certainly felt by most of the people I know when I am around them. And not only by them but that's another topic...). But when I am making a contact through writing, like now, it's another thing - I can be a lot more direct. Is it just a normal human psychological thing or is it my Aries ascendant in Vedic astrology? When I started researching astrology I used another time zone for my birth chart and things were different. For a long time I believed my ascendant was in Aries and it felt so right but I knew that if you come and see me(without speaking to me) for the first time, I'd be so quiet and calm, looking at something only I can see - a void look, like only my body is in the here and now(and that is true in a way xD). Then I understood that I was using the wrong time zone(not my fault) and things got clearer. In Vedic, it's still in Aries and I don't know what it could possibly mean for me and my first house. Aside from the ascendant, I don't have anything in the first house or in the Eastern hemisphere(except for Saturn but Saturn is in 12th house. Saturn and Pluto are the hidden me but they are also the closest to me) and I don't show almost anything to the people around me. Maybe just Uranus manages to show itself outside the door but that is, nothing, nobody knows me, even relatives.
Also, is it true that the outer planes don't play a role in Vedic astrology? If it is,it's so sad, they are my favourites.:biggrin:

No, I don't remember anything about that trine. I don't have much respect for transits xD.
P.S./EDIT Yes, I know they, Western and Vedic astrology, are different and you can use both of them and find truth in both of them but I am the kind of person that wants to completely dive into something and completely become that thing. I like making big choices, they are rare but feel so ecstatic. When I divide my attention and interest to many things, it doesn't feel good, the one starts to compete witht the other, they start fighting, they don't want to share because it's never only the mind involved, I just can't seek for knowledge without the drama and without involving everything in me in the process. From an interesting tool, anything can become a weapon and in the end...no, there isn't an end. Every thought, feeling or obsession comes back to hunt me and "ask" for rebirth.:pouty:
Click to expand...

If you have a tendency towards introvertism as I do, you might also have a tendency to reject the everyday physical aspects of your life or give them less importance, unlike an extrovert would. I feel in this way my tropical Pisces rising suits me. It also suggests why you like to relate to outer planets more than inner planets, that have a more mundane feel to them, but my opinion is that they are both parts of us and it is pain to reject either. So I would say find a way to appreciate your basic "human quirks", as it were.

I'm not sure the sidereal zodiac digs deeper as much as it is more primitive; in that way it holds its strength and is deeper because it shines light onto underlying basic, fixed truths, versus ones that are warped by psychology and personal motivations into self-concepts (which are valid and very much a part of our identities in their own right). Zat is my analysis.

If the tropical zodiac refers more to psychology and behavior, then a Taurus ascendant denotes as you said a calm gesture, a strong sense of self-worth and the understanding of the importance of self-love, a love for indulgences - sensuality, make up and other artistic inclinations. Earth is not non-spiritual just because of its connection to Gaia. I'm saying this because I struggled with a psychological rejection of Gaia. Poor Gaia. All elements are channels through which spiritual energy, if wanted, can express itself.

A sidereal ascendant gives information about the lesson learned in early life. What did your early experiences tell you you needed to be in order to preserve yourself? An Aries ascendant suggests that an attitude of independence was learned. Some harsh occurance(s) instilled in you the idea of needing to be a self-serving warrior. Perhaps you weren't tended to enough and concluded you needed to become your own universe, i.e. your own advice, your own advocate, your own go-getter, etc. More litterally this also means your own food, your own bread-winner, your own cheerleader, your own lover .... and now you can see where tropical Taurus and sidereal Aries overlap with the strong sense of identity. The HUGE danger though is to forget that others ARE a part of our universe and we can benefit from them without reprecussion. That is why Saturn is exhalted in Libra, it's because relationships go a long way in building a solid reality.

It is also important to look to the house in which the chart ruler lies.

The outer planets were not traditionnally used as they were not discovered. Now their reprecussions are thought to be more spiritual/psychological than mundane, but some Vedic astrologers use them with caution and many don't. There is such a thing as Neo Vedic astrology which fully integrates and values the outer planets.

By all means Yanel, choose just one way to go for the time being, it just helps to not falsify the rest, I find. Being open doesn't mean you can't dedicate yourself one way or another. With regards to your sense of safety in the commitment you make, only you can have that. Whatever investment you make you won't die. If that happens you'll eventually be reborn with new epiphanies. So there's no need to fear getting mindf*cked, there is a threshold :).

EDIT: You should try looking at charts of friends, family, aquaintances, celebrities using the sidereal zodiac. That would help you decide.
 
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Yanel

Yanel

Well-known member
StillConfused said:
If you have a tendency towards introvertism as I do, you might also have a tendency to reject the everyday physical aspects of your life or give them less importance, unlike an extrovert would. I feel in this way my tropical Pisces rising suits me. It also suggests why you like to relate to outer planets more than inner planets, that have a more mundane feel to them, but my opinion is that they are both parts of us and it is pain to reject either. So I would say find a way to appreciate your basic "human quirks", as it were.

I'm not sure the sidereal zodiac digs deeper as much as it is more primitive; in that way it holds its strength and is deeper because it shines light onto underlying basic, fixed truths, versus ones that are warped by psychology and personal motivations into self-concepts (which are valid and very much a part of our identities in their own right). Zat is my analysis.

If the tropical zodiac refers more to psychology and behavior, then a Taurus ascendant denotes as you said a calm gesture, a strong sense of self-worth and the understanding of the importance of self-love, a love for indulgences - sensuality, make up and other artistic inclinations. Earth is not non-spiritual just because of its connection to Gaia. I'm saying this because I struggled with a psychological rejection of Gaia. Poor Gaia. All elements are channels through which spiritual energy, if wanted, can express itself.

A sidereal ascendant gives information about the lesson learned in early life. What did your early experiences tell you you needed to be in order to preserve yourself? An Aries ascendant suggests that an attitude of independence was learned. Some harsh occurance(s) instilled in you the idea of needing to be a self-serving warrior. Perhaps you weren't tended to enough and concluded you needed to become your own universe, i.e. your own advice, your own advocate, your own go-getter, etc. More litterally this also means your own food, your own bread-winner, your own cheerleader, your own lover .... and now you can see where tropical Taurus and sidereal Aries overlap with the strong sense of identity. The HUGE danger though is to forget that others ARE a part of our universe and we can benefit from them without reprecussion. That is why Saturn is exhalted in Libra, it's because relationships go a long way in building a solid reality.

It is also important to look to the house in which the chart ruler lies.

The outer planets were not traditionnally used as they were not discovered. Now their reprecussions are thought to be more spiritual/psychological than mundane, but some Vedic astrologers use them with caution and many don't. There is such a thing as Neo Vedic astrology which fully integrates and values the outer planets.

By all means Yanel, choose just one way to go for the time being, it just helps to not falsify the rest, I find. Being open doesn't mean you can't dedicate yourself one way or another. With regards to your sense of safety in the commitment you make, only you can have that. Whatever investment you make you won't die. If that happens you'll eventually be reborn with new epiphanies. So there's no need to fear getting mindf*cked, there is a threshold :).

EDIT: You should try looking at charts of friends, family, aquaintances, celebrities using the sidereal zodiac. That would help you decide.
Click to expand...

Outer planets have a lot more meaning to them. They reflect you, not only your thoughts, feelings and experiences(a.k.a. the spirit) they reflect YOU - the soul of which a little part is in your body(you don't bring everything with you in one lifetime). Because they connect you to your higher you, to you most real you, not the illusion here on Earth(an opinion I have - not Pisces and the other water signs have anything to do with illusion but the earth signs that work on the material plane, the inconsistent plane, the unstable, temporary, mortal. Saturn gets us through all those illusions of the material world and spiritual world but Neptune, Pluto and maybe Uranus are the planets of true consciousness(the soul world), of that which is not seen with the eyes and therefore is truly seen, not just a mere reflection of a quality but an image of you, your home. And our home, our source, is not the Earth. We continuously struggle to bring it here, to imagine it - yes, imagine, not make it visible - to dream of a creation that belongs and expresses itself somewhere else but it is reflected in a place like this.) So are they really outer? I don't think so. They are not so much interpeted through signs but they still move fast through houses and lighten up the whole chart with the Truth 'they' have brought. I think inner planets are closer to the Self but not the Self as your essence and divine identity, but the self as only your ego which is the identity of the mortal spirit. Spirit lives only though memories and reflections. It is a dream, a thought, a human feeling, an idea. Outer planets are important for the individual. They are the closest to him because they are actually him, not a mere expression of the ego.
And yeah...I am an introvert. The most obvious thing about me(my 'social' Libra Sun can go and hide in a rabbit whole - along with my Western hemisphere orientation, it is of no use when it comes to ME xD). An INFJ. And you? Have you taken the Myers-Briggs test? If not, I advise you to be careful, you should be completely honest when you decide to do it.

About the lesson learned in childhood..you're so right!!! I...I wrote a long paragraph about that with personal info and sharing of inner worlds but I deleted it and I'm sorry. I really am. I usually don't share. I feel like I'm not ready to do it. But you're right!

I checked the nakshatras of me and two close people. The are so true. Of course, they didn't show me, the whole and true me, but they were a lot more closer than the zodiac signs concept ever were. There is a sun sign(and a moon sign, and a Mercury sign, and the sign of another star or an asteroid..) but a zodiac sign...I'm not so sure. It just feels wrong to say that I'm Cancer or a Capricorn or an Aries...I am not a sign. Yeah, yeah, the whole chart...blah-blah. No, I don't have a zodiac sign.
 
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