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  #1  
Unread 11-08-2014, 02:47 PM
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For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

I haven't been into astrology that long but it doesn't take a smart person to notice a pattern.

I did some research on American born serial killers(Looked up 40 of them) and 87%(35/40) of them had at least one hard mars aspect, and 70% of them having 2 or more hard aspects to Mars.

Whats the deal with hard mars aspects, are these people overly violent? And yes I understand there are millions of people with hard mars aspects, but that's too much of a coincidence for that many violent people to have at least one hard mars aspect.

And if so, then whats the case with people with positive aspects to mars(Trines,Sextiles)?

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Unread 11-08-2014, 04:04 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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I did some research on American born serial killers (Looked up 40 of them) and 87%(35/40) of them had at least one hard mars aspect, and 70% of them having 2 or more hard aspects to Mars.
From the Astrology Research Journal. Aug. 2002 there was a comparison made between 2 types of murderers - between the horoscopes of 60 serial killers and 60 single murders (only killed one vicitim):

....it was noticed in 7 from 60 of the serial killers charts that an increased presence of opposition aspects to the cusps of the 8th and 12th houses existed...now 7 out of 60 is not a huge comparison, but the most significant aspect found. Another less common aspect was Saturn opposing the 12th cusp, and/or the NN squaring or opposing the cusp of the 12th, and/or Mars, Saturn, Neptune or Pluto in the 12th house.

It is my belief that chart results like these are informative and indications of possiblity, but are not an ultimate truth....because everyone has the opportunity to use all energy positively....

Last edited by Inline; 11-08-2014 at 04:42 PM.
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Unread 11-08-2014, 05:18 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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From the Astrology Research Journal. Aug. 2002 there was a comparison made between 2 types of murderers - between the horoscopes of 60 serial killers and 60 single murders (only killed one vicitim):

....it was noticed in 7 from 60 of the serial killers charts that an increased presence of opposition aspects to the cusps of the 8th and 12th houses existed...now 7 out of 60 is not a huge comparison, but the most significant aspect found. Another less common aspect was Saturn opposing the 12th cusp, and/or the NN squaring or opposing the cusp of the 12th, and/or Mars, Saturn, Neptune or Pluto in the 12th house.

It is my belief that chart results like these are informative and indications of possiblity, but are not an ultimate truth....because everyone has the opportunity to use all energy positively....
Agreed.

But that's an extremely high number, and it wasn't like I hand picked the killers, I took the list and went straight down the line and got these numbers.

You are 100% right it all depends on how one uses their energy, but I definitely believe people with hard mars aspects are prone to do something extremely violent IF IF pushed into a corner.
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Unread 11-08-2014, 05:34 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

Statistics...

According to statistics, the average French woman has 2.5 children. I've been living in France for about six years, have met a few people, women included, but none of them had 2.5 children.

Both Bob Dylan and serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer have a square between Mars and Jupiter. Or, both Freud and serial killer Patrick Kearney had a Mars-Saturn square.

Statistics will never tell you how any aspect - a hard aspect between Mars and another planet, for example - will manifest within a person. Only looking at their chart as a whole will do so. Otherwise, you'll get the French woman with her 2.5 kids...
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Unread 11-08-2014, 05:50 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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Originally Posted by Imhere11 View Post

Agreed.

But that's an extremely high number, and it wasn't like I hand picked the killers,
I took the list and went straight down the line and got these numbers.

You are 100% right it all depends on how one uses their energy,
but I definitely believe people with hard mars aspects are prone to do something extremely violent IF IF pushed into a corner.

Mother Theresa of Calcutta
XIV Dalai Lama
Pope Francis, the current Pope
Queen Elizabeth II of England
William Shakespeare



all have Mars square a natal planets and/or planets
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Unread 11-08-2014, 06:03 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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Originally Posted by Imhere11 View Post
I haven't been into astrology that long but it doesn't take a smart person to notice a pattern.

I did some research on American born serial killers(Looked up 40 of them) and 87%(35/40) of them had at least one hard mars aspect, and 70% of them having 2 or more hard aspects to Mars.

Whats the deal with hard mars aspects, are these people overly violent? And yes I understand there are millions of people with hard mars aspects, but that's too much of a coincidence for that many violent people to have at least one hard mars aspect.

And if so, then whats the case with people with positive aspects to mars(Trines,Sextiles)?
Look into "Mangal Dosa" of Vedic Astrology. That might fascinate and give additional input.

Well Mars is energy representing Action. Philosophically you won't put you first step without this. People with hard aspect usually learn themselves. Like a man with Mars square Venus might have race condition with females - may be in job or may be in school or may be elder sister taking all favors of parents. Without Mars hard aspect, many things will remain unexplored.

When Mars is out-of-control, things go wrong in non social way and non human way.
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Unread 11-08-2014, 06:10 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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Statistics...

According to statistics, the average French woman has 2.5 children. I've been living in France for about six years, have met a few people, women included, but none of them had 2.5 children.

Both Bob Dylan and serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer have a square between Mars and Jupiter. Or, both Freud and serial killer Patrick Kearney had a Mars-Saturn square.

Statistics will never tell you how any aspect - a hard aspect between Mars and another planet, for example - will manifest within a person. Only looking at their chart as a whole will do so. Otherwise, you'll get the French woman with her 2.5 kids...
Agreed......to a certain extent.

I used killers, people known for violence and out of 40, 35 had hard mars aspects, that's an extremely high number, for picking random killers.

Now if we mix killers, with average joes, then yes the number drops tremendously, as there are millions of people born with hard mars aspects and don't use violence,however how many of these people HAVE to use violence? Just because one has never been violent, doesn't mean they can't get violent, they just never been given a reason to.

I do you one better, I went back to my Middleschool and HS days and did charts on people who constantly were fighting all the time, and one's who were in prison now for violent acts, and a high number of them had hard mars aspects.

I also did charts on the ones, who when confronted or pushed never pushed back or fought back and they had no serious mars issues, and some had no aspects to mars, now I know no aspects to mars can make one extremely aggressive or extremely passive, all of them were the latter.

So it wasn't just one study I did, I've done a few, one thing I can bet is put a person with an afflicted mars back up against the one, I guarantee they will lash out, I'm going by real life experiences and people who were known killers.

There's something to people with hard mars aspects.
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Unread 11-08-2014, 06:14 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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Look into "Mangal Dosa" of Vedic Astrology. That might fascinate and give additional input.

Well Mars is energy representing Action. Philosophically you won't put you first step without this. People with hard aspect usually learn themselves. Like a man with Mars square Venus might have race condition with females - may be in job or may be in school or may be elder sister taking all favors of parents. Without Mars hard aspect, many things will remain unexplored.

When Mars is out-of-control, things go wrong in non social way and non human way.
Well yea, I just looked into Mangal Dosa yesterday and I've got a friend, with hard mars issues and an very high Mangal Dosa and he's a nut violently, good person, but when he explodes there's no stopping him, he wants blood, seriously and I've witnessed him in action, not a pretty sight.

What's an out of control mars in your opinion?
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Unread 11-08-2014, 06:26 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Mother Theresa of Calcutta
XIV Dalai Lama
Pope Francis, the current Pope
Queen Elizabeth II of England
William Shakespeare



all have Mars square a natal planets and/or planets
How many of them were forced to use violence or had no other choice but to use violence?
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Unread 11-08-2014, 06:29 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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How many of them were forced to use violence or had no other choice but to use violence?
How many of the general population with MARS TRINE NATAL PLANETS were
'forced to use violence or had not other choice but to use violence?'
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Unread 11-08-2014, 06:34 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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How many of the general population with MARS TRINE NATAL PLANETS were
'forced to use violence or had not other choice but to use violence?'
We can go back and forth all day, I see you have alot of post, so I assume you are alot more knowledgeable than me at this, but my point is why when you look up a majority of killers more times than not ALOT of them have hard mars aspects?

I just don't think it's a coincidence, I think people with hard mars aspects go off into the deep end with violence when extremely angry.

But once again, I would like an input from you and whats your take on what would make one violent then.

Thanks.
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Unread 11-08-2014, 06:36 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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Well yea, I just looked into Mangal Dosa yesterday and I've got a friend, with hard mars issues and an very high Mangal Dosa and he's a nut violently, good person, but when he explodes there's no stopping him, he wants blood, seriously and I've witnessed him in action, not a pretty sight.

What's an out of control mars in your opinion?
For example Mars sextile Mercury will keep Mars controlled through reasoning. But conjunct or square Moon will make emotional violent to the extent of out-of-control. Socially out-of-control is being abusive, physical followed by spending time in isolation.

Mars square Mercury can make out-of-control in different way, making sarcastic, where it is not desired.

Mars is exalted in Capricorn (the sign of Saturn), because Mars can express best if channelized (well directed). Sign of Saturn give best direction to Mars and so Mars acts best in Capricorn.
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Unread 11-08-2014, 06:39 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

Hey Imhere11, interesting topic. Have you explored the effects of an out of bounds mars? For example, I've read that if mars is out of bounds and in a damaging position then it would be excessive and could cause problems for the native.

Do you think there is a difference of influence in hard aspects to mars between inner and outer planets?
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Unread 11-08-2014, 06:42 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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I did some research on American born serial killers(Looked up 40 of them) and 87%(35/40) of them had at least one hard mars aspect, and 70% of them having 2 or more hard aspects to Mars.

Can you list the killers with the hard Mars aspect including orbs?
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Unread 11-08-2014, 06:45 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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For example Mars sextile Mercury will keep Mars controlled through reasoning. But conjunct or square Moon will make emotional violent to the extent of out-of-control. Socially out-of-control is being abusive, physical followed by spending time in isolation.

Mars square Mercury can make out-of-control in different way, making sarcastic, where it is not desired.

Mars is exalted in Capricorn (the sign of Saturn), because Mars can express best if channelized (well directed). Sign of Saturn give best direction to Mars and so Mars acts best in Capricorn.
So what does the mangal dosa have to do with one with hard mars aspects or one with soft aspects to mars, what role does mangal play if it's high?
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Unread 11-08-2014, 06:47 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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Can you list the killers with the hard Mars aspect including orbs?
I did 40 people only U.S born, so I cant remember all of them, but what I can do is post the link of serial killers, and I didn't use any strategy I went straight down the list of US born killers and got this statitstic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ber_of_victims
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Unread 11-08-2014, 06:49 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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Hey Imhere11, interesting topic. Have you explored the effects of an out of bounds mars? For example, I've read that if mars is out of bounds and in a damaging position then it would be excessive and could cause problems for the native.

Do you think there is a difference of influence in hard aspects to mars between inner and outer planets?
Im still new so I wouldn't know about out of bounds planets and the very deep depths of astrology, it's just a few studies I did on hard mars aspects and each time a very very high number of extremely violent people or killers had hard mars aspects.
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Unread 11-08-2014, 10:02 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

it is an interesting topic. being violent is basically using unreasonable amount of force towards other. it can be due to a wish to cause harm oor due to a lack of understanding regarding one's force and power.
mars is responsible for instincts, urges, self assertion and power. when one of these is being afflicted or badly aspected, it may cause problems that manifest themselves in violence: not knowing how much force is the right amount, applying to much of it, having violent urges atc.

positive aspects of mars will be around same issues but will show these issues in positive way: will power, high self asteem, leadership, knowing how to take control and action on the right time with the right amount of force, high survival instincts, atc. people with strong mars, either afflicted or not, can be good martial art practitioners, good soldiers, good leaders, and some of them may be so aware of their own power to a point they become the best defenders of the weak...
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Unread 11-08-2014, 10:09 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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I did 40 people only U.S born, so I cant remember all of them, but what I can do is post the link of serial killers, and I didn't use any strategy I went straight down the list of US born killers and got this statitstic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ber_of_victims

You didn't keep track of which killers had an aspect and which one -- how did you get your statistics then?
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Unread 11-09-2014, 06:40 AM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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it is an interesting topic. being violent is basically using unreasonable amount of force towards other. it can be due to a wish to cause harm oor due to a lack of understanding regarding one's force and power.
mars is responsible for instincts, urges, self assertion and power. when one of these is being afflicted or badly aspected, it may cause problems that manifest themselves in violence: not knowing how much force is the right amount, applying to much of it, having violent urges atc.

positive aspects of mars will be around same issues but will show these issues in positive way: will power, high self asteem, leadership, knowing how to take control and action on the right time with the right amount of force, high survival instincts, atc. people with strong mars, either afflicted or not, can be good martial art practitioners, good soldiers, good leaders, and some of them may be so aware of their own power to a point they become the best defenders of the weak...
Interesting, thanks for your input, as I said in a previous post I've done studies on people I knew with positive Mars aspects and I wouldn't call them chickens, but these people hardly got into violent situations, I don't know if it's a coincidence or it just makes one think smarter.

I have a long way to go in astrology so I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, but one thing I will stand on as of now, is that people with afflicted mars in their chart are capable of very dangerous things when angry.
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Unread 11-09-2014, 06:43 AM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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You didn't keep track of which killers had an aspect and which one -- how did you get your statistics then?
I took a serial killer chart off WIKI and did only the U.S born killers and did the first 40 killers and 35 of them had at least one hard mars aspect, and out of those 35 quite a few had 2 or more hard aspects.
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Unread 11-09-2014, 06:54 AM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

I still don't agree with a statistical approach to astrology.

Read the biography of Gandhi, for example, and you will find that he would have had plenty of opportunities to turn violent. He lived through two world wars... There are different ways to "fight", some "fight" for what they believe in, some fight to help others, and so on. Check out the chart of Martin Luther King. Mars square Moon and Mars opposite Saturn. Albert Schweitzer's Mars is square both Uranus and Saturn. And so on.

So, your hypothesis is that a person with hard Mars aspects is more prone to violence than a person who is not. If you only gather the data of serial killers, of course you will prove your theory correct. The same way as if you had a hypothesis that red flowers attract more fleas than others, and, to check it out, you go to a field where you know there are a lot of red flowers. You will be checking the red flowers, the majority of them will have a lot of fleas, then you will check a few flowers in other colors, some of them will have the same amount of fleas, others will have less. But, as it is a field where the red flowers are in majority, you will have much more data on red flowers than on any other colour, so you will find that red flowers indeed attract more fleas. But your resarch hasn't been objective.

Even if you want to exclude any other ways a hard aspect from Mars can manifest and consider only violence, there's still the option that it will be committed against that person and not by them. Have you also checked the charts of victims of violence / murder victims? Perhaps you should.

Sharon Tate had a Mars-Neptune square (while Charles Manson's Mars, for example, has no hard aspects), Helene Althusser's Mars is squared by both Neptune and Uranus, while her husband's (her killer) Mars had no hard aspects. and so on.
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Unread 11-09-2014, 07:18 AM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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I still don't agree with a statistical approach to astrology.

Read the biography of Gandhi, for example, and you will find that he would have had plenty of opportunities to turn violent. He lived through two world wars... There are different ways to "fight", some "fight" for what they believe in, some fight to help others, and so on. Check out the chart of Martin Luther King. Mars square Moon and Mars opposite Saturn. Albert Schweitzer's Mars is square both Uranus and Saturn. And so on.

So, your hypothesis is that a person with hard Mars aspects is more prone to violence than a person who is not. If you only gather the data of serial killers, of course you will prove your theory correct. The same way as if you had a hypothesis that red flowers attract more fleas than others, and, to check it out, you go to a field where you know there are a lot of red flowers. You will be checking the red flowers, the majority of them will have a lot of fleas, then you will check a few flowers in other colors, some of them will have the same amount of fleas, others will have less. But, as it is a field where the red flowers are in majority, you will have much more data on red flowers than on any other colour, so you will find that red flowers indeed attract more fleas. But your resarch hasn't been objective.

Even if you want to exclude any other ways a hard aspect from Mars can manifest and consider only violence, there's still the option that it will be committed against that person and not by them. Have you also checked the charts of victims of violence / murder victims? Perhaps you should.

Sharon Tate had a Mars-Neptune square (while Charles Manson's Mars, for example, has no hard aspects), Helene Althusser's Mars is squared by both Neptune and Uranus, while her husband's (her killer) Mars had no hard aspects. and so on.
No, your right and this is what I said to that statement someone else made earlier about only using people who were known for violence.....



" Agreed......to a certain extent.

I used killers, people known for violence and out of 40, 35 had hard mars aspects, that's an extremely high number, for picking random killers.

Now if we mix killers, with average joes, then yes the number drops tremendously, as there are millions of people born with hard mars aspects and don't use violence,however how many of these people HAVE to use violence? Just because one has never been violent, doesn't mean they can't get violent, they just never been given a reason to.

I do you one better, I went back to my Middleschool and HS days and did charts on people who constantly were fighting all the time, and one's who were in prison now for violent acts, and a high number of them had hard mars aspects.

I also did charts on the ones, who when confronted or pushed never pushed back or fought back and they had no serious mars issues, and some had no aspects to mars, now I know no aspects to mars can make one extremely aggressive or extremely passive, all of them were the latter.

So it wasn't just one study I did, I've done a few, one thing I can bet is put a person with an afflicted mars back up against the one, I guarantee they will lash out, I'm going by real life experiences and people who were known killers.

There's something to people with hard mars aspects.""
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Unread 11-09-2014, 05:11 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

Mars in hard aspect to Moon, Uranus or Pluto point to people who are prone to anger and being cruel, aggression, payback, and violence as the worse case scenario. Mars in hard aspect to Saturn, I haven't experienced this as a violent aspect necessarily, typically there is a lot of frustration in their lives. They can also be very hard workers. But I can see the potential to be sort of a ticking time bomb with two planets that don't like each other and completely opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of how they operate. When people work with this aggressive energy in a positive way, i.e. Martin Luther King, Ghandi, and many professional athletes, much of can be mitigated through channeling it in positive ways. Hard aspects have the same potential as easy aspects, you just have to work harder to make it happen.
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Unread 11-09-2014, 05:47 PM
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Re: For serious astrologers, or people who really understand Hard Mars Aspects

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Mars in hard aspect to Moon, Uranus or Pluto point to people who are prone to anger and being cruel, aggression, payback, and violence as the worse case scenario. Mars in hard aspect to Saturn, I haven't experienced this as a violent aspect necessarily, typically there is a lot of frustration in their lives. They can also be very hard workers. But I can see the potential to be sort of a ticking time bomb with two planets that don't like each other and completely opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of how they operate. When people work with this aggressive energy in a positive way, i.e. Martin Luther King, Ghandi, and many professional athletes, much of can be mitigated through channeling it in positive ways. Hard aspects have the same potential as easy aspects, you just have to work harder to make it happen.
I agree 100%. I have an afflicted Mars in Aries located in my 12th house. It Squares Saturn, Neptune, Chrion, Jupiter and my MC (Afflicted term only applies to the Saturn and Neptune Square, yes?). Even with those aspects, I'm not violent at all, Just irritable at times.
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