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  #1  
Unread 08-29-2014, 01:53 AM
laurelin laurelin is offline
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Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

My significant other and I went through a rough patch this week and broke up for a couple days. In true fashion, I was devastated to the point of incapacitation. I have a tendency to "awfulize" everything when I get like this and I am convinced that I'll never work again, never smile again, never be able to show my face again, etc. I go through episodes of hysterics. I'll cry and scream and hyperventilate and then I'll feel better for about an hour until it happens again. It's a truly dismal experience, as all break-ups usually are, but mine seem to be especially horrid and I'm not sure why.

Last night, after my boyfriend and I patched things up, I couldn't even really put myself back into the realm of emotions I'd experienced not 12 hours before. I had no emotional memory, only visual memory...I could visualize myself crying and walking around, sort of, dazed, but I couldn't remember how it felt. I'm almost wondering if I "block" each breakup and store it somewhere until the next one happens and that's why these episodes seem to get worse and worse as time goes on. I don't know.

Just FYI, I am diagnosed Bipolar II and have been stable on medications for 17 years. These reactions are outside of the scope/nature of this disorder. In fact, this break-up occurred during my best time of year -- I have never experienced a depression (even a mild one) during late summer, but a break-up will put me into a nosedive.

Is there something in my chart that tells me what I need to do to stop having these intense reactions to break-ups? I'm not sure what I need to post, exactly, to show all the right data. For now, I'll post my chart with transits from the day of the last breakup. If anything else is needed, please let me know!

Also, my chart has been discussed before regarding relationships, so if there is a need to refer to that thread, it is here.
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  #2  
Unread 08-29-2014, 02:19 AM
virgo18 virgo18 is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

The Leo Moon sometimes overreacts emotions, plus squaring Uranus you tend to overreact abruptly. The conjunction with Saturn will ground your emotions somewhat. But anyways, I can see that your medication can help you through this situation.
The Moon conjunct Venus very very tightly, and this last one rules your 7th house of relationship: You emotions are highly tied to your romantic relationships.

My own insight:
Kiron lands in the 6th and your DSC. This affects you, bringing men who have some sort of unconscious or psychological problem. You can't do anything about it, so don't even try to sacrifice your self helping them. That's their problem.

Neptune sits in your 2nd... This kind of blurry how you feel about yourself. You need to realize how much you value.

The last observation is that Saturn and Mars are transiting your ASC, and tightly squaring your Natal Moon and Venus (relationships)... This is not a good time to start a relationship! And I am not surprised that your relationship ended... This is not bad at all! It is a good signal that this guy wasn't for you.

Non astrological advice: People who can't handle rejection, or abandonment, are the ones who are not conscious of their self worth which was threatened at an early age by a loved one who abandoned us or rejected us.... I experienced this with my father, so a lot of time, I struggled when a relationship with a boyfriend ended, or if they didn't treat me as I liked. And the worst thing was that I insisted them, and remain there like a doormat. This finished not so long ago, when I realized that I was repeating a pattern, a pattern that I experienced in the relationship with my dad. So then I could separate my relationships from that abandonment experience I had as a child.
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  #3  
Unread 08-29-2014, 03:07 AM
laurelin laurelin is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

I am fully aware of this self-awareness/self-worth issue. I've been working on it for quite some time and believed I was getting a good handle on it (especially since I started studying astrology), but the break-up this week showed me I've not come as far as I'd thought. It's very discouraging.

You said that you can see that my medication will help me with this -- is there any more detail you can go into about that? My therapist and psychiatrist have been of the opinion that this isn't an issue having to do with my illness and, therefore, cannot be helped by meds. They believe this is separate.

Regarding abandonment: I did not have any abandonment issues with my parents, per se. I was very frightened, as a child, that I would be orphaned, but my parents were always quite present and never neglectful. Is it possible I brought this fear in with me? Perhaps a past life or something to that effect?

Oh...and one more thing. The break-up was short-lived. He came to his senses. Does that still mean he wasn't for me?
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Unread 08-29-2014, 11:05 AM
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

Hi. Because all of your personal planets are in the second quarter of the zodiacal cycle, your natural inclination is to strive to be an individual in your own right who has something to offer to others. Cancer, Leo and Virgo all fear not being valued for who they are - thus an insecure Cancer-type needs to be needed, an insecure Leo-type needs to light up the lives of others, and an insecure Virgo-type needs to affirm their usefulness to others. You might benefit from noticing how this manifests in your general life, and perhaps working to increase your tolerance of these fears, and finding ways of feeling more self-contained. Then when your relationship is out of your control, you won't feel plunged into a vacuum to the same extent.
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  #5  
Unread 08-29-2014, 10:14 PM
laurelin laurelin is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

Quote:
Originally Posted by miquar View Post
Hi. Because all of your personal planets are in the second quarter of the zodiacal cycle, your natural inclination is to strive to be an individual in your own right who has something to offer to others. Cancer, Leo and Virgo all fear not being valued for who they are - thus an insecure Cancer-type needs to be needed, an insecure Leo-type needs to light up the lives of others, and an insecure Virgo-type needs to affirm their usefulness to others. You might benefit from noticing how this manifests in your general life, and perhaps working to increase your tolerance of these fears, and finding ways of feeling more self-contained. Then when your relationship is out of your control, you won't feel plunged into a vacuum to the same extent.
These are all things that are fairly important to me. I think it's definitely the Leo in me that gets downtrodden at break-ups -- to be told that light is, essentially, burned out is really hard on me.
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Unread 08-30-2014, 06:35 AM
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

Hi, yes both of the personal yin planets are in Leo and angular. Perhaps your mother was so needy of attention that she couldn't validate you in the way you really needed. Perhaps this part of you still hungers for attention. An inner experience of self-recognition may be the way forward.

This is ideally achieved in a spirit of spontaneity, but Leo's ruler (the Sun) being in Virgo (ruled in turn by Mercury strong in its own sign) may bring a sense of self-scrutiny. It will also enable you to develop skills which bring your creativity to life, and the development of such skills will improve your self-esteem. The thing is to get the balance right.
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Unread 08-30-2014, 06:42 AM
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

If you look at your relationship with your mother and decide that she was truly present - that she really couldn't have done much more to validate you - then perhaps you did indeed bring this issue with you and no parental relationship could have alleviated it. Either way, the story behind the issue is less important than how you deal with it in the present.
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Unread 09-06-2014, 06:16 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Chart Analysis of Laurelin

In some private discussions with Laurelin, I have agreed to begin a long term analysis of her chart. For me this means something much like Ira Progoff's AT A JOURNAL WORKSHOP where I write something, she ruminates and writes something in follow-up, she asks questions; and then we go around again, gradually going over her whole chart.

A full analysis using my method has 7 major steps:

1. DISCUSSION OF THE HERE AND NOW

2. Discussion of Thinking patterns about the world and with the world

3. Discussion about how changes comes and how its handled

4. Discussion about the client's spiritual/functional mission in life and how that matches the everyday career orientations. So mission has to include a career analysis too

5. Areas of life that have been fenced in so that the client should not go there because the energies and structures simply don't work well.

6. Area of open ended growth

7. Energies and health descriptions which show how the Mission can be accomplished.

We will be starting with #1 above, and continuing to interact about her chart until she is tired or filled up, where we will either stop, or take a break for awhile. BTW, all clients for this kind of counseling astrology have to agree to a set of 11 conditions that describe it, prior to my offering it. It describes the parameters for my continuing the provide the astrological assistance.


===============


The first thing that we need to look at when I analyze your chart is the HERE AND NOW. I do this by looking at your Minor Progressed Return chart(a progression which takes place on your birthday and is much like a solar return pinpointing challenges for the next year, but only in the areas of what I would describe as mental challenges or mental chaos.)

The second part which we are not doing now is to look at the feeling chaos or emotional chaos challenges that you will be experiencing over the next year.

You can find more about this by reading Robert Blaschkeís book on Progressions.

We have to find the priorities first since there is a huge amount of information to look at in any chart. We do this by looking at the Astrodynes(see my website for more info and sources of information).

In this chart, Saturn is very high in friction followed by mars and Neptune, and Neptune and Saturn are both very powerful. Both of these planetary energies will be figuring strongly in the next year for you.

So how would we characterize this? If Saturn is both very powerful and very high fricitons, then you can expect that the more difficult characteristics of Saturn will come to the fore: dealing with limitations, dealing with burdens, struggling with a pessimistic outlook, trying to hold on to everything. Neptune will be bringing illusions mists and fogs; you may find that you feel as if you are burdened by a fog all the time.

Try to remember that this is an illusion, and that Saturn can help you provide discipline to your life, and be patient. Despite the fact that the down down of both of these may be easier to fall into they are both very powerful and you can use them to support your issues in a positive way too.

While the Moon is not very powerful in this chart, its positive influence is strong supporting your imagination and your ability to deal with whatever changes mentally the rest of the chart suggests. But because of the Moonís less powerful position you will have to put more effort into the Moonís energies to get the same effect.

So energies of the Moon and Uranus also will be strongly supportive for you.

The issues of the 3rd house are both powerful and very very high in friction, and these issues will occupy much of your changes abd the existing mental chaos or challenge.

Clearly the issues of blood relatives, brothers, sisters, as well as communication issues will be on your mind during the foreseeable future. You may feel as if everything is a big test. (If you donít already own a copy of Rex Bills RULERSHIP BOOK you should purchase a copy; mine is dogeared, and its something my own teacher Kt Boehrer recommended right away for any budding astrologer)

You will be getting support using the issues and stuff of the 2nd house and the 12th house in its needs for seclusion and paying attention to the past(which is a Saturn issues anyhow, but looking at issues of the past will be support for you in the present and the future---as long as you donít get lost in the past).

Your natal chart has a very high latitude Moon which is what you are used to. This is part of the Change Quotient which we will get to when we talk about how change works for you and how you deal with it. But its important to mention it now because it will impact your mental outlook. A high latitude moon(3 degree, 45 minutes to 5 degrees 18 minutes) suggest that normally your outlook on the world in regard to the changes represented by it moves in these ways:

1. You tend to not only demand to get your own way, but just plain expect it.

2. Projects tend to take on the sorcerer apprentice and keep going even when they want them to stopóboth personal and professional.

The difference here is that your normal outlook will seem tempered in a way and you will find yourself either not having people respond to your demands and asking you to go with the flow, and ďwait and seeĒ, or you may actually find yourself doing it. This will add to that effect listed above of feeling like you are in a fog.

NEXT: A LOOK AT SPECIFIC ASPECT RELATIONSHIPS(Squares and oppositions), AND COGNITIVE STRUCTURES(the obvious and very strong T-Square) IN THE CHART, and what they mean in respect to what is described above. We are continuing with the present and the immediate future.

--------------
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  #9  
Unread 09-08-2014, 03:11 AM
laurelin laurelin is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

First off, I have one overall request/question: I’d like to see how 2013’s minor progressions figure into 2014’s minor progressions simply because 2013 was such a monumental year for me. I want to know how those years overlap and what I could be carrying with me from one to the other. I understand that free will plays a major part in outcome of the aspects, but I want to better understand the lessons and challenges put in front of me during that time. My entire life changed drastically from 2013 to 2014, so I'm very interested in seeing the 2013 chart.

Regarding your post:
The strength of Saturn and its corresponding friction (in the 3rd house) definitely illustrates my current issues with communication. I think communication is probably one of my biggest limitations. After years of being an irrational force to be reckoned with, I’ve been trying to recognize my passive-aggressive tendencies when they happen and force myself to be more fair and assertive. It doesn’t always work. Sometimes I just can’t get that ulterior motive out of the way – as if it would be a reward for being tolerant and even-tempered. Other times, my quest to be assertive doesn’t actually match what I’m wanting to express and I get myself into trouble with the consequences. I also tend to choose partners who are passive-aggressive or deceptive. The man I’m currently dating is actively working on passive-aggression, like I am, so we’ve been learning how to be tactfully assertive together. Thus far, it is working well and our relationship has benefitted from it greatly (despite the hiccup a couple weeks back which, as usual, turned out to be a misunderstanding).

Misunderstandings have been central in my communication issues for the last several years. Either I do not understand myself (which is possible) or my partners project their fears onto me and ascribe personality traits and emotions that simply aren’t there. This was the case with my marriage that ended, abruptly, in March of 2013 and, most likely, the reason for the demise of a significant, heavily karmic relationship one year later. The ending of this relationship (the karmic one…not my marriage) still haunts me today and is, probably, one of those “burdens” you mentioned, though I do find that it is lessening with time and with the stability of my current relationship.

I do try, desperately, to hold on to things. I suppose this has to do with a fear of change, but I think it also has to do with control. I have had very little control over my path through this life. Things don’t just happen out of logical consequence with me. It’s never easy to see where I went wrong. When something happens, it’s often completely unexpected and completely out of my hands to resolve. It’s a sudden, life-altering change. Consequently, my sense of security and sense of self have been, continually, sideswiped by these things. I have nothing left, emotionally, to be able to deal. A year ago, I had some strength left. When my marriage ended, I was alright. I rebuilt myself and found some hope. But with each subsequent setback, my ability to find hope dwindles and I’m left wondering just how long ago I actually went wrong. Was it so long ago that I don’t even remember? How do I find my way out of it if that’s the case?

I suppose this contributes to the “fog” that you say Neptune is, illusively, placing around me. To use Saturn to my advantage, I’m thinking I have to continue along my path of assertiveness and authenticity. The more I practice this, with good result, the more it will become habit.

I definitely think the good influence of Neptune has come by way of my interest in astrology and psychic intuition. I just need to start trusting my intuition a bit more and using the gifts that have been, seemingly, getting stronger in me throughout the last several years. The “fog” may be representative of my own distrust in myself, come to think of it.

I’m noticing that the supportive influences you mentioned (Moon and Uranus) are in the 2nd and 4th houses, respectively. Does this mean support will come via finances and family? Or does it mean support will come from an interest in the past and people outside my family? I have been very worried about the state of my small business and the affordability of my home. Could this indicate that, by focusing on my business and seeking alternative methods for growth, my home and business will be stabilized and, thus, helpful in improving my overall outlook on life?

Regarding my high latitude moon:
Quote:
You tend to not only demand to get your own way, but just plain expect it.
Sigh…I have heard this about me my entire life and it has always been a source of frustration with me because I’m not a selfish person. I certainly don’t make demands or blatantly railroad over the top of people to get what I want. I would not be able to live with myself if I were such a person. However, it is how people see me, I think, because my reactions are difficult to hide on a “tension” level. If I’m disappointed, I don’t have to say a word. The people around me will be able to feel my disappointment. If I’m angry, my “vibe” betrays me, even if I have a smile on my face. I can fully accept disappointment or setbacks and plug on ahead, but the accusations of deception impede my path. Does this mean I felt entitled to get my way? Not at all. Does it mean I have to get it? No. Do other people bend to my vibe and give me my way anyway? Hopefully not and, if they try, I will be adamant that they not do so. Regardless, this doesn’t seem to have much of an effect on my overall reputation as someone who “has” to get their way. Very frustrating…
Quote:
Projects tend to take on the sorcerer apprentice and keep going even when they want them to stop – both personal and professional.
I think I know what you’re trying to say, here, but can you clarify “they”? Who wants them to stop? Me? The projects? The people around me?

Quote:
The difference here is that your normal outlook will seem tempered in a way and you will find yourself either not having people respond to your demands and asking you to go with the flow, and “wait and see”, or you may actually find yourself doing it.
Such is life lately. I’ve been “waiting and seeing” for some time. But, I’ve also found the need to improve myself so that those things I’m ‘waiting and seeing’ about will come to fruition.

I hope I’ve responded adequately to this. I apologize for the length!

Last edited by laurelin; 09-08-2014 at 03:15 AM.
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Unread 09-08-2014, 04:02 AM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

Quote:
Originally Posted by laurelin View Post
First off, I have one overall request/question: I’d like to see how 2013’s minor progressions figure into 2014’s minor progressions simply because 2013 was such a monumental year for me. I want to know how those years overlap and what I could be carrying with me from one to the other. I understand that free will plays a major part in outcome of the aspects, but I want to better understand the lessons and challenges put in front of me during that time. My entire life changed drastically from 2013 to 2014, so I'm very interested in seeing the 2013 chart.
I understand what you are saying here, but the intent of looking at the here and now is to limit our discussion, to the here and now, and NOT to get stuck in what built up to the here and now. While looking into the past can be useful in some instances, my experience is that it simply procrastinates efforts into the future, and gets one stuck in the past. All astrological progressions(2ndary, Tertiary, and Minor) have characteristics that put them in the past and the present and the future. I'm not going to go back to 2013 or 2012 or whatever.

At some time in the future it may be useful to do this, but to do it right now, would tend to StillBirth our discussion right at the very beginning.



Quote:
Originally Posted by laurelin View Post
Was it so long ago that I don’t even remember? How do I find my way out of it if that’s the case?
You are still at the very beginning of a long discussion of your chart. There are no silver bullets, and I certainly don't have any for you. We must let this flow and see what you see as things move along. And, we are not looking at your entire life here, only the thinking chaos and thinking disorder(often called illusions about the present) that you have about your life and the future. We have not even begun to look at the emotions that need to be considered.


Quote:
Originally Posted by laurelin View Post
I’m noticing that the supportive influences you mentioned (Moon and Uranus) are in the 2nd and 4th houses, respectively. Does this mean support will come via finances and family? Or does it mean support will come from an interest in the past and people outside my family? I have been very worried about the state of my small business and the affordability of my home. Could this indicate that, by focusing on my business and seeking alternative methods for growth, my home and business will be stabilized and, thus, helpful in improving my overall outlook on life?
Again, I am speaking entirely about mental chaos, i.e.: things that you are thinking about. We don't want to be shifting to physical events that would come to you in your life---that's not what this is about.

When I say that the Moon and Uranus can be supportive, I'm saying that mentally you can be supported in your own thought processes by recognizing that you can deal successfully with change and the thoughts that exist around change, and continuing to be active in your thing patterns(the Moon). From a Uranus point of view, your thinking can be supported by thinking in original ways, and by being willing to free yourself from preconceived ideas about how things have to be.

The areas life that an improve your ability to think about things in the present are the 2nd and the 12th, and to a much much lesser extent, the 4th.
This means that you must put a positive spin in your thinking by thinking about the future in positive ways(we are what we think), and by making a list of your positive strengths as you know them at this time and putting efforts into maximizing them.

The issues of the 12th that can assist in your thinking are solitude, and thinking of all the good things in the past that have assisted you to get to the present. You wouldn't be in the positive place if you hadn't done positive and supportive things in your thinking. You need to perpetuate those into the future---IN YOUR THOUGHTS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by laurelin View Post
Regarding my high latitude moon:


I think I know what you’re trying to say, here, but can you clarify “they”? Who wants them to stop? Me? The projects? The people around me?
This is not an indictment of you. Expecting things to go your way is the sign of someone who knows what they want and goes after it. Its a good thing. There are may people with low latitude moons who wish that they could have that feeling of just a little bit of entitlement.

The situation where things can get out of hand is with projects that you start. I used the wrong pronoun. I call this the Sorcerer apprentice syndrome(wiki it if you are unsure of what it meant).

The other reason for telling you this is that your latitude of the moon in your mental state at the moment is way less, and so you being so used to having things go the way you want, you may feel at loose ends when that doesn't seem to be happening quite so much. So even though people have been telling you about this your whole life, and a part of you wishes it wasn't that way, when you are currently experiencing a lessening of the entitlement, it actually may feel like a loss to you, and contribute to fog.

Sometimes that old adage about being careful what we wish for comes and hits us again. It sure happens to me more times that I would have expected.

------

This is a good start. We've just begun to look at how things are and have not even gotten too deep yet into your life. Remember right now we are only talking about issues of your own mental chaos RIGHT NOW and about further manifestations of that. We are talking about ways that YOU can deal with it, not about ways that other people will come running to your rescue.

Ultimately you are the only one who can fix anything that you think is broken. In the next few steps, we will continue with the HERE AND NOW involving whatever mental chaos and disorder is preventing you from moving forward, and ways that you can maneuver through it, and dispel some of the illusions that all our minds put in front of us.

We will do that by looking specifically at: SPECIFIC ASPECT RELATIONSHIPS(Squares and oppositions), AND COGNITIVE STRUCTURES(the obvious and very strong T-Square) IN THE CHART, and what they mean in respect to what is described above.

My next response will be in the Wednesday/Thursday period(9-10 to 9-11).

We are continuing with the present and the immediate future, and not with the past. And....as much as you may wish me to provide it, I won't be making any specific predictions about what will happen to you in the future. The future is yours to define, not me.

Last edited by Zarathu; 09-08-2014 at 04:06 AM.
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Unread 09-11-2014, 07:09 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

Next thing we need to look at in the Minor Progressed Return chart of the now is the Mutable T-Square with the multiple oppositions and the multiple Foci.

This a quite a complicated structure.

First of all Generally a T-Square represents:

1. Its a fairly COMMON CONFIGURATION: 40 % of charts have this

2. An Opposition with another planet at the midpoint of the opposition on either side of the chart---which is called the APEX Planet. The APEX planet constantly challenges the glass ceiling of the opposition: the native cannot ignore the opposition. In a normal opposition, you might not know its there until you hist its glass ceiling but that is impossible in a T-Square.

3. The power and friction of the opposition will show how impactive this configuration is in the life of the individual

4. The fact that there is a planet at the APEX leads to a continuous stress, like having blister on your heel that just wonít go away. It affects your psyche profoundly especially its powerful and high friction.

5. Usually a T-SQUARE represents a glass ceiling impacted by dealing with the rights and needs of others.

6. The whole thing can get out of hand and can take over the chart since the APEX planet is a constant irritant(again depending on the power and friction of it) that must be addressed.

So we are looking at a configuration that while temporary, and cognitive(meaning that it engenders thought rather than feelings), it can overwhelm you thinking processes.

In your case its complicated because you have two of them super-imposing themselves(mingling) with other:

a. The Venus Opp Neptune, with the Saturn Focus



b. The Sun Opp Neptune, with the Mars Focus

Lets look at the comparative power and Friction of each

The combined friction of The Venus Opp Neptune, with the Saturn Focus is -25, and the combined power is 21.74

The combined friction of the The Sun Opp Neptune, with the Mars Focus is 15, and the combined power is 13.5.

So obviously the Venus Opposite Neptune with the Saturn Focus is the dominant issue, with the Sun Opp Neptune modifying the dominant issue.

So first of all, before we get into the specifics, let look at the mutable t-square itself and what both of them are offering you in terms cognitive disruption.

So before we look at the specifics, I would like you to look at this in general terms and decide whether you see any of this disrupting your thinking:

1. The oppositions are Venus Opp Neptune, and The Sun Opp Neptune:

The oppositional glass ceiling involves lessons of dealing with stimulation that is stressful to the nervous system, and sometimes disruptive to thinking, leading to some kinds of thinking disorders---meaning you canít stop thinking about things

2. The T-square often involves lessons involving resolving boredom and restlessness that may prevent you from accomplishing anything of a substantial nature

3. You may have difficulty setting goals

4. You may find yourself living from moment to moment, and often resisting planning ahead for anything

5. You may find yourself choosing subjects that require very intensive study to resolve the tension created by the T-square(such as astrology), but due to the moment to moment nature, and the procrastination, you can't seem to organize yourself to utilize them properly.

6. You may find yourself driven to let those in your life know about what you have learned but at the same time struggle with too much vacillation and indecision about what you are doing. This can impact you by you spending too much time telling others and not enough time actually working on the issues

7. In regards to people relationships, you must also try hard to define exactly what you wants and when you want it. You may find yourself having trouble doing this for various reasons.

8. You may tend to spread yourself thin with too many interests

9. You may wish for practical applications to the problems you are experiencing but often you may not be successful in getting there, partly due to your inability to set up a plan for doing so

10. You may find that while you are quite flexible in your relationship and actions, that this Flexibility is actually a curse, since you tend not to hold on to any one thing long enough for it to develop properly

11. You may find that you tend to side track matters that you find uncomfortable, and thus procrastinate in solving your problems despite your desire to do so. You canít seem to make this happen.

The above is a very general explanation of the mutable T-Square combinations, which we are going to break down in further presentations.

How much of this in a general way do you see as controlling your thinking, and where and when? Please make a note of it in your Journal.
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  #12  
Unread 09-13-2014, 10:26 PM
laurelin laurelin is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

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1. The oppositions are Venus Opp Neptune, and The Sun Opp Neptune:

The oppositional glass ceiling involves lessons of dealing with stimulation that is stressful to the nervous system, and sometimes disruptive to thinking, leading to some kinds of thinking disorders---meaning you canít stop thinking about things
I often have the feeling that I must address something about me Ė that I have to stay in the moment and keep my emotions and thoughts as close to the surface as possible so I can examine them and see if I can crack the code to what must be underneath. Itís almost never-ending.


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2. The T-square often involves lessons involving resolving boredom and restlessness that may prevent you from accomplishing anything of a substantial nature
I have hit the ceiling in terms of my career. Iíve arrived at the end of the learning curve and the beginning of self-directed success. As soon as this happened, I became bored and somewhat lost in my career. I still love it. I love the creativity and I love getting into a project, but Iím bored with the process and the day-to-day details. Itís not that itís too hard, itís that it requires so much of me that I lose sight of everything else. And, since ďeverything elseĒ is what I canít stop thinking about, I feel as if my career is 2nd priorityÖeven though common sense tells me itís not. Itís incredibly frustrating because I know I should be making it 1st priority. I think the boredom is actually avoidance. I am avoiding charting new territory and going beyond what I know. I want to stay where I am because Iím afraid of change and Iím afraid of failure. The irony is that the boredom and de-prioritizing will lead to change and failure anyway.

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3. You may have difficulty setting goals
Yes. I donít often do that for specific things.

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4. You may find yourself living from moment to moment, and often resisting planning ahead for anything
Yes. This is because so much of my life seems up in the air. I donít know what life will be like 2 months, 6 months or 1 year from now and there are some things that could change everything (i.e. Iíve got 1 year to increase my income or I have to sell my house, my boyfriend lives 70 minutes away and if we were to decide to marry or cohabitate, Iíd have to move there)

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5. You may find yourself choosing subjects that require very intensive study to resolve the tension created by the T-square(such as astrology), but due to the moment to moment nature, and the procrastination, you can't seem to organize yourself to utilize them properly.
I do find myself choosing subjects that require study, but thatís just something I do. Whatever challenges that come my way while studying are temporary because I work them out quickly.

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6. You may find yourself driven to let those in your life know about what you have learned but at the same time struggle with too much vacillation and indecision about what you are doing. This can impact you by you spending too much time telling others and not enough time actually working on the issues
Talking my way through things, explaining things to others, teaching others, etc. is actually helpful, for me, in working through issues. I validate my learning by talking. Itís a useful component.

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7. In regards to people relationships, you must also try hard to define exactly what you wants and when you want it. You may find yourself having trouble doing this for various reasons.
I am quite certain about what I want. The ďwhenĒ isnít only up to me, though.

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8. You may tend to spread yourself thin with too many interests
No, but I do spread myself thin with time. I will hyperfocus on something and ignore other obligations.

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9. You may wish for practical applications to the problems you are experiencing but often you may not be successful in getting there, partly due to your inability to set up a plan for doing so
Havenít noticed this as an issue.

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10. You may find that while you are quite flexible in your relationship and actions, that this Flexibility is actually a curse, since you tend not to hold on to any one thing long enough for it to develop properly
I hold on to everything. If anything doesnít develop properly, itís because someone chooses not to hold on to me. Lately, flexibility has been a bit of a curse in that it has been interpreted as being insincere or, in some cases, sarcastically insincere. The interpretation is not indicative of truth, though.

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11. You may find that you tend to side track matters that you find uncomfortable, and thus procrastinate in solving your problems despite your desire to do so. You canít seem to make this happen.
I sidetrack things I find boring. I have been learning to confront and talk about those things that make me uncomfortable. Iíve come a long way in this endeavor of late.

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How much of this in a general way do you see as controlling your thinking, and where and when?
My most major issues are my business/career, my relationship and my familiarity with myself. The need to delve into my psyche (and my karma) is prevalent most all of the time. I have to watch for instances of insecurity and meekness in my relationship. I do not feel as in-control of my heart and emotions as I did several months ago. Whenever there is a conflict, I feel as if Iím scrambling to fix it Ė almost like Iím a little kid ďin troubleĒ and Iím trying to find a way to take it back or go back in time and erase it. Itís a very panicked feeling. Any kind of conflict or concern will take over both my mind and my time until Iíve organized it all and feel as if I can successfully navigate my way through.
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  #13  
Unread 09-16-2014, 01:01 AM
FROG FROG is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

There is diagnosis called Borderline Personality Disorder which is notorious for making one feel horridly abandoned and emotionally agitated enough to not remember the worst. Learning about the disorder and the recent breakthroughs in therapeutic methods could make a huge difference in your quality of life, and future potential.
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  #14  
Unread 09-16-2014, 01:36 AM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

Since I am very familiar with that disorder, and the intensity involved(both professionally and personally), I have to say that diagnosing that here for this person is inappropriate.

[toned down the language - Moderator]

Last edited by wilsontc; 09-16-2014 at 02:56 PM.
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  #15  
Unread 09-16-2014, 03:16 PM
FROG FROG is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

Sorry. I don't mean to be diagnosing. I simply suggested learning about it. As in seek counsel, and become informed, get the facts, so one can choose wisely. ;-)
I meant to give hope that seeking counsel could lead to some very effective outcome with today's new therapies. Without giving away the identity of the therapies, I think you know what I mean, wink wink. Sometimes it's more important to make the effort appealing, than to provide the answers.
Severe reaction to abandonment is something to pay serious attention to, and there are promising routes to take now, to do something about that.
With complete respect for the responsibility of a professional to make the correct diagnosis and direct the treatment plan, I am only suggesting that there are skill sets which Borderline PD folks learn, which might help this person also. It could prove to be very rewarding, if this person were to ask a professional counselor.

Is that better?
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  #16  
Unread 09-16-2014, 03:57 PM
laurelin laurelin is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

I understand your intention, Frog. I do appreciate the difference therapeutic intervention can make in the lives of those with mental illness, particularly dialectical behavior therapy for people with borderline personality disorder (and it shows promise in mood disorders, as well).

I have researched BPD quite a bit and even discussed it with my psychiatrist a while back. While the adverse reaction to abandonment component is there, I'm rather low on the spectrum for all the other symptoms, but thank you for taking the time to respond and for advocating mental health services. It is certainly a necessary social platform.

Last edited by laurelin; 09-16-2014 at 04:00 PM.
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  #17  
Unread 09-16-2014, 06:42 PM
FROG FROG is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

What I see in the chart that might help, is that you are a bit caught up with perfection and 'ought to be', sort of thinking that life meets your expectations (illusions) or CRASH.
The alternate would be to learn to just (shrug shoulders, let go) accept what happens, happens. That's it. That's all. It's not all caused by you. It's not all victimizing you. It just happens.
Your Sun (ego) and Mercury (thinking) are in perfectionist Virgo sign of service, mixing 10th - Public identity and 11th - house of friendships, driving this sense that there is right way for everything to be, or else, everything is wrong.
You Moon and Venus in Leo, help you to dramatize your feelings and are trined by Neptune (illusions) from 2nd house of self worth. So, it's possible for you to imagine a sense of self worth based on a perfect world, and absolutely CRASH in emotionally outburst when things are not, 'right', particularly when it comes to relations.
The good side of Moon in Leo, is that when you smile, the world just loves to look up and smile with you. The world needs your smile. But the downside, is that if something topples you from your limelight, the show is horrible.
Moving your head around to accepting things as they are, without having the need to have things please or not please you, be perfect or imperfect, is the direction you want to go. This isn't to say that you live a life in deprivation of the need to be pleased, ever. It's just that not everything out there is for you. And not everything out there is for you all the time perfectly. Think of how you don't mind waiting for a good friend to enjoy themselves longer at a party that you want to leave. You wait a little bit, because you want your friend to have a little more that is good. Think how sometimes things are trashed for you, but there's a good chance someone else is moving forward, and you don't mind giving a turn, for now, for the moment, because you can pull out a smile and win the world anytime you want, later. You can just accept what happens, turn around and put your mind on the next step, without so much drama, this time. Go perfect, something else. Take a look at what you may have learned from the experience, carry the lesson forward for actions that fix that, and move on. You have wonderfully perfect dreams to pursue and make real.

As for not being able to recall the experience of the intense emotions later -- it's my recollection that that is psych phenomena which the pro's know about, and can help illuminate how it occurs, and what it may mean for you, in terms of coping, and doing better. I notice that Mercury is Retrograde in your chart. While it is home in its rulership of Virgo, the Retrograde flavor is a little complicating. Retrograde Mercury tends to make you turn inward, and slow down a bit, with communication and thinking. While Uranus causes a quick Moon Emotional reaction, and Mercury turning inward and running down long dark personal corridors, you may be losing touch with reasoning side of yourself that needs to balance that flash Moon. It's not that you aren't thinking. It's that your thinking looks only within. One book I read, took this Moon in Leo with Retrograde Mercury and said simply "Objectivity is absent", which means that the individual runs short on the ability to see a situation as occurring without it being all about them. Ask your thinking self, if it must stay in the dark corridors, to at least imagine or consider the possibility that there's more going on that you aren't aware of, and go talk to a good friend or counselor, to regain some objectivity.

As to why this is happening now, after 17 years of stability -- I need to run some more charts. Are you in the same town as you were born?
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  #18  
Unread 09-18-2014, 11:46 PM
FROG FROG is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

I haven't run those charts yet. It may be a while. Why is it of interest to you? Could you be more specific about your interest?

What did you think of what I read so far?
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  #19  
Unread 09-29-2014, 08:54 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

Since its been awhile since this was discussed..... lets look again at what we are exploring.

This is not your natal chart. Its a Minor Progressed Return Chart. This shows the kinds of issues that you are addressing mentally and the kinds of things that are on your mind in regards to current challenges only.

We talked about what Oppositions, Squares, and T-Squares mean in a chart and how in a general way they might apply to your current thinking.

So at this point, we need to look at the specifics of the T-Squares.

The first one is the dominant one: this is the Venus Opposite Neptune with the Saturn Focus.

This also consists of three separate aspects which can be explored:

Venus Opposite Neptune
Venus Square Saturn
Neptune Square Saturn

Of these The Neptune Square Saturn is the most frictionful and powerful, followed by Venus Opposite Neptune. Of course, oppositions are always more difficult than squares because you canít see them coming, and you canít just work harder, you have to change your thinking about something---the way you choose to perceive it.

We talked about the above already.

-------------

But lets look at the big picture first.

The most significant impact of the T-Square is the Opposition
, in this case, the the Venus Opposite Neptune Opposition. A Neptune-Venus opposition brings the following issues:

1. Its primarily about relationships. You may have some unrealistic goals, and these attitudes are causing challenges in dealing with those close to you.

2. You are being forced to accept the reality of these relationships

3. Neptune in opposition to Venus brings illusions in regards to love relationships. You may think that you are the unselfish giving one who is sacrificing yourself for others, but this is in reality not the case. You have to be aware of mental challenges where you may be using this illusion as a way to gain power over the relationship. You have to address challenges about who is more grateful of the others attentions.

4. There is real issues mentally where you are being deceived or allowing yourself to make up things about a relationship which are not really happening.

Remember the above is what you are thinking about, not your feelings.

This is a mutable T-Square, and as such we have addressed that above. The next thing to do is to look at the apex planet in a mutable T-square, and to see how that impacts the square in the totality. If there was no T-Square, you might not be forced to address the relationship issues of the opposition, but because of it, you really canít stop.

An apex planet describes how the individual is to resolve the tension and dilemma of the opposition in the t-Square, which in this case is Venus Opposite Neptune.

Even in oppositions without an apex planet or asteroid, the midpoint of the opposition whether a point or even an Arabic part can show the seeds to solving the dilemma.

Your apex planet is Saturn, who always attempts to bring a measure of structure to any situation.

Before we go to the specifics of Saturn as an apex planet in a mutable T-Square, or to the very strong and difficult Saturn Square Neptune supporting structures in the T-Square, lets just look generally at what Saturn brings to the T-Square. And try to rememeber that Saturn and its placement is telling you how to resolve the relationship issue described above in the Opposition:

1. Takes a practical and serious approach to establish long term objective

2. Tends to undergo numerous setbacks, delays, when striving for success as others see you.

3. Forced by life experiences to understand the purpose of wisdom, understand the purpose of planning, of timing, of maturity

4. Often feeling frustrated, held back, and you may be afraid of showing others that he might have any kind of personal inadequacy to others, or even to himself

5. Appears constantly on guard, reserved, painfully self-conscious

6. Tends to distrust and wonít participate in any intimacy

7. Tends to be very controlling to protect yourself from vulnerability

8. Can shrewdly calculate your moves when you are so incluned to put in the effort.

9. Can exert a lot of discipline and control when necessary

10. Tends to not relax--- ever. You may find yourself hyper vigilant to relationship issues, when you should be simply ignoring them.

11. Tends to never become close or feel at ease in any relationships. Be aware that this is part and parcel to the struggles that you are having mentally here

12. Tends to avoid any partnerships where warmth, tenderness, or lovingness are expected. Be aware of this.

13. Attempts to manage with an iron fist, and the power of command, while part of Saturn, may not be as useful as you would like.

14. Must learn to trust and share with others

18. Resolving this T-Square will allow you to be ambitious without controlling and running constant power plays

15. Resolving this T-Square will allow you to be respected in your efforts toward justice in the relationships

16. All the areas of problems can be resolved

These are the ways that Saturn influences the structure of the Mutable T-Square. You can see that while Saturn is structure incarnate, Saturn's interaction with Pisces is often a lot like Saturn in Pisces, and in this case Saturn is high friction and fairly high power, so Saturn can bring the more negative side to its structure. But even so Saturn is telling you the issues involved.

But we can be even more specific. Saturn in a mutable T-Square will tend to provide these even more specifics, and can tell you how to address the opposition, and at the same time the kinds of struggles that you will experience doing so:

1. Demands more discipline of mental interests and less scattering of energies

2. Circumstances tend to provide situation where you may be forced to learn to concentrate your intellect and then apply what he learns in a practical way. This is probably the easiest position for Saturn in a t-square.

3. Tends to experience frustration in communication until you learn focus and direction.

4. Tends to have concepts that are too narrow or cynical

5. Tends to be pessimistic and engage in negative self-talk

6. Tends to be an overly rational skeptic about everything that involves what you canít see right in front of you.

7. Tends to not trust the emotions and to put them down, or those who use them down.
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  #20  
Unread 10-03-2014, 05:05 AM
laurelin laurelin is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

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1. Its primarily about relationships. You may have some unrealistic goals, and these attitudes are causing challenges in dealing with those close to you.
Unrealistic goalsÖI suppose the ultimate goal is to remarry, though not immediately. Perhaps Iím expecting commitment too early or committing myself too early. I think this has definitely been the case over the last year. As for right now Ė this instant Ė my goal is to know I can detach if I need to. It seems my subconscious has started doing this for me and I donít want it to. Instead of being able to maintain a relationship and be secure in myself and my life enough not to need the relationship, Iíve started to simply turn off. Six weeks ago, I was in the best, most secure relationship Iíd ever had in my life. Then, he freaked out and ended it. A few days later, he came back and everything went back to being great. Now, Iím, literally, pushing him away from me, complaining about ďpersonal spaceĒ and trying to keep occupied so I donít have to cuddle or be affectionate. The ďbest, most secure relationshipĒ is now something Iím regarding as ďehĒ and itís sort of driving me nuts. I did this exact same thing with my husband well before we even got engaged and it never went away. I just figured that was what happened when you settled into a relationship Ė you just werenít all that Ďin loveí. In hindsight, I know that I felt that way because I didnít trust him to stay. I was preparing myself for the day he left me again. When he did, I wasnít surprised and, truth to tell, it wasnít that bad. It disappoints me, to no end, that the ďold meĒ is making guest appearances right now.

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2. You are being forced to accept the reality of these relationships
Thatís confusing to me because I donít know which reality Iím supposed to accept and which Iím supposed to abandon.
The reality of my marriage: I got married because I wanted to be normal. Marriage made me feel normal and more in-control of my life. It gave me false confidence in myself. The reality was, I loved my husband very much, but I wasnít proud of him and I didnít trust him and it wasnít terribly hard to walk away and stay away.
The reality of a soul mate: Several months after my marriage ended, I met someone who completely changed my perspective on love and myself. I didnít know it was possible to love someone so much and be so thoroughly content. In 36 years, Iíd never experienced anything like it. That love became the Ďidealí for me. It was more than just that ďhoneymoonĒ period. It was an entirely different lifeÖone that seemed to have existed forever, but was in the deep recesses of memory.
The relationship itself was excruciating after a while. The dream I had was not becoming reality. He waxed and waned. He trusted and then he lost trust. He started questioning everything: his job, his future, his dreams. It was too much for him. Iíd come along at a time when he was reaching a definitive crossroads in his life. Despite the many opportunities he was given to change course, he chose the easier path and drifted away. I have had to accept the fact that my life must go on; that the Ďidealí only resides in him, therefore I cannot compare future loves to the love I had with him. He must remain separate or I will never be able to commit myself to another. Initially, this was not a struggle. As time goes on, it is becoming one.
The reality of my current relationship: Itís not perfect, but, boy are we determined to work through our pasts and our own hang-ups to make it work. We are growing, but, as I mentioned before, my subconscious is playing tricks with reality. I donít know if my hesitation is real or if itís a defense mechanism. The more committed he becomes, the more doubtful I am of my heart.

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3. Neptune in opposition to Venus brings illusions in regards to love relationships. You may think that you are the unselfish giving one who is sacrificing yourself for others, but this is in reality not the case. You have to be aware of mental challenges where you may be using this illusion as a way to gain power over the relationship. You have to address challenges about who is more grateful of the others attentions.
Before our short break-up, I thought my boyfriend and I were equal in our gratefulness. When we broke up, I was shocked to learn that he had been far less grateful for my attention than I was for his. And, not only that, he thought of me as being Ďneedyí and Ďclingyí Ė two things Iíd actually felt relieved to be rid of in this relationship! The realization of this disproportion really weighed on me. It still does.
Iím not sure how much ďpastĒ you want me to delve into, here, since youíre wanting to keep things on the ďpresentĒ level, but I have a general fear of being deceived by my own illusions/delusions. Itís a big reason why I donít trust my instincts.
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4. There is real issues mentally where you are being deceived or allowing yourself to make up things about a relationship which are not really happening.
Definitely something I worry about almost all of the time. The ďsoul mateĒ relationship is a prime example of this. The circumstances tell me I deceived myself. My instincts (and a few psychics) tell me there was much more beneath the surface of that relationship than I knew and that, ultimately, he deceived himself. I worry my ďinstinctsĒ are simply excuses to keep from letting him go and admitting I was wrong.

So, Iím guessing these are the things youíre saying Iím probably experiencing as I work to resolve this t-square:
1. Demands more discipline of mental interests and less scattering of energies
Does this mean Iím thinking about relationships, etc. all the time, hence the reason Iím a bit scattered in everything else?

2. Circumstances tend to provide situation where you may be forced to learn to concentrate your intellect and then apply what he learns in a practical way. This is probably the easiest position for Saturn in a t-square.
This comes fairly naturally to me and I do it quite often in my current relationship.

3. Tends to experience frustration in communication until you learn focus and direction.
Always, yes.

4. Tends to have concepts that are too narrow or cynical
Yes, when it comes to things I donít like or that agitate my senses.

5. Tends to be pessimistic and engage in negative self-talk
When I Ďdownshiftí and get stuck in ďlife is horrible modeĒ, then itís practically impossible for me to be optimistic.

6. Tends to be an overly rational skeptic about everything that involves what you canít see right in front of you.
I suppose ďskepticalĒ is appropriate, but only when it comes to my own intuition. Iíve always been a kind of ďout of the boxĒ dreamer so Iím not wholly skeptical about much.

7. Tends to not trust the emotions and to put them down, or those who use them down.
This is definitely the ďoldĒ me, not the person Iím becoming. Iíve embraced emotions much, much more throughout the past year.
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  #21  
Unread 10-28-2014, 04:10 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

p { margin-bottom: 0.1in; line-height: 120%; } This is a modification of the original post.



I think that we have covered enough at this point on the strictly mentally oriented sets of current challenges and

we should switch to looking at those that more impact your limbic system---that is, your feelings.

Again, we are NOT LOOKING AT YOUR NATAL CHART HERE, WE ARE LOOKING AT YOUR TERTIARY PROGRESSED RETURN CHART.

To do this we look generally:

1. at the houses that are going to be supportive for you, and the houses that are are going to be stressful. This would be stuff that has been active for the past 6 months increasingly and will continue for the next six months gradually morphing into the issue of the chart of 9-14-2015.

2. at the Planetary energies which are supportive, and those which are more of a pain

3. at specific aspect relationships that could be a special area to address.

First: Issues relating to the 6th house and the 2nd house are likely to be emotionally frustrating for you


The sixth house involves VOLUNTARY SERVICE, HABITS, NON -LIFE-THREATENING SICKNESS, DISTRESS, Work that is not a career


The second house involves THE FUTURE, TOMORROW, YOUR SPECIAL TALENTS, HEREDITY, ANCESTRY, YOUR OWN MONEY, YOUR OWN WEALTH, YOUR POSSESSIONS,
SELF PROTECTION, SECURITY, BONDS, PERSONAL INVESMENTS


The stuff of these houses are likely to be thing things that are impacting you emotionally. This means that you will tend to be come emotionally over the top compared to normal circumstances when these issues are involved. Its not like you cannot control it, it just that you will need to think ahead of time when these areas of life are involved, so that they don't blind side you and send you into an emotional spiral.

Issues of the 5th house of creativity and romance will tell to be supportive and easier to deal with emotionally. I am not telling you that you will have a romance, only that creativity will allow you a way to deal with the emotional issues of the 6th house.


Further the stuff of the 5th house includes CREATIVITY, CHILDREN, PREGNANCY, LOVE AFFAIRS, ENTERTAINMENT, SPECULATION, GAMBLING, COMMUNITY PROPERTY

Second,

Saturn and the ASC are both very high friction, and very powerful in the emotional issues for you for this period.


Saturn represents DISCIPLINE, CAUTION, PATIENCE, PRUDENCE, THRIFT,
dealing with LIMITATION, BURDENS and LESSONS, earning SUCCESS, PESSIMISM, NARROW-
MINDEDNESS, DOUBTS, and SHORT-SIGHTEDNESS. You may find that you are locked into more caution than you want, forced to discipline yourself. But remember that Saturn can also be your Guardian Angel. If Saturn is giving you excessive discipline, burdens and lessons, this is for a good reason. Rather than fighting against this, put your self into it and jump whole hog into planning for the future, dealing with the limitations, and finding ways around them. Use the caution and patience that Saturn is providing rather than fighting against it.


But you are also supported by the energies of Jupiter and Venus, which are almost a balance to the stern Saturn discipline. But remember a strong Jupiter can also expand anything he touches, so he could also expand Saturn. But it will be in a good way. Its sort of like having the wicked fairy give you a nasty emotional shock, and then having the good fairy come along and help you see silver linings in everything.

Also, Mercury is Out of bounds in this chart, but Mercury is very low in power, so it will not build recurring emotional issues like it might if it was powerful.


Mercury out of bounds will tends to augment your mental thinking.

Finally,

The most difficult aspects are Mars and the Sun Opposite the ASC. Remember that an opposition in classical astrology is a push pull event that is considered not able to be solved. But in modern astrology it is something that can be solved but that you have to make a change of consciousness to do it. Additionally, they have what is called a “glass ceiling” which mean that you don't know they are there until you bump up against them or you know about astrology. So for many people their oppositions don't get addressed because they know something is wrong but they cannot find out what it is. Looking at the midpoint picture will give you some idea of how this is solved.


In this we must first look at the Mars Sun conjunction with is very very powerful, and slightly friction producing. This means that the issues of it and the energy that produces it cause an immediate reaction in your life and that you have to be careful with it since it can very easily cause strife with the people and things of your environment. Typically a Mars Sun conjunction in this temporary chart indicated the following concerns. There is the potential for high level explosive emotional conflicts. You may find yourself thinking you can stand up to anyone and that you should stand up for yourself. However, in using the energies in this way you may find that you end up in heated arguments and fights. You need to remember that you don't have to defeat others just to maintain yourself. Make use of the caution that Saturn is providing you, and don't let the powerful energies of Jupiter augment your potential explosive Mars/Sun Conjunction.


This conjunction also gives you a boost of energy, often of the physical kind. You can work hared and long. So you need to use it for positive gains not for negative.


Looking at the opposition, you have to realize that all the planets and points in it are powerful and that all of them are very high friction. Mars is slightly high friction(actually the highest friction in this chart) than the Sun, and slightly higher power than the Sun so Mars is the primary in this opposition.


The opposition provides a huge boost to the potential to emotional conflicts provided by the conjunction of mars with the Sun. But the boost is in the way that not only do you want to stand up for yourself, but that you find that others seem to want to oppose YOU on anything you want, especially if you allow your emotiona to get involved. Since this is a tertiary chart on the limbic system, the key here first of all is to avoid like ebola any responses to others using feelings(angry, happy, sad, mad, etc). You must attempt to function like Mr. Spock on Star Trek, or Mr. Data without the emotion chip. Any use of emotion in your conflicts may turn everything into a conflagration.


Additionally, you may find that the conflicts are often between your belief that you need to assert yourself, and at the same time build your relationship. The problem is that in this case you have to choose. You can't have your cake and eat it in this case.


If you ant to maintain the relationship you will need to pick your battles, and most of the time back off. If you back off, and let the other person take the lead, then you will find(again keeping your emotions out of it) that you can actually develop a cooperative scenario. But you will have to be secondary, not primary during the period of this progressed aspecting


While you have a lot of energy, you can also over do it, and that high friction 6th house can lead you into an emotional exhaustion, which could(if you ignore the need for caution and allow your emotional system to go out of control) lead to illness, nervous or physical or both.

Last edited by Zarathu; 11-13-2014 at 04:04 PM.
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  #22  
Unread 11-19-2014, 04:29 AM
laurelin laurelin is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

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First: Issues relating to the 6th house and the 2nd house are likely to be emotionally frustrating for you
The sixth house involves VOLUNTARY SERVICE, HABITS, NON -LIFE-THREATENING SICKNESS, DISTRESS, Work that is not a career
The second house involves THE FUTURE, TOMORROW, YOUR SPECIAL TALENTS, HEREDITY, ANCESTRY, YOUR OWN MONEY, YOUR OWN WEALTH, YOUR POSSESSIONS,
SELF PROTECTION, SECURITY, BONDS, PERSONAL INVESMENTS

The stuff of these houses are likely to be thing things that are impacting you emotionally. This means that you will tend to be come emotionally over the top compared to normal circumstances when these issues are involved. Its not like you cannot control it, it just that you will need to think ahead of time when these areas of life are involved, so that they don't blind side you and send you into an emotional spiral.
From the list of 6th house possibilities, Iíd guess that the most stressful components are habits and distress and, possibly, the non life-threatening sickness as much as it pertains to bipolar disorder (though I donít really think of it as a sickness).
The things of the 2nd house have always been a source of stress for me, so thatís really no surprise.
The issues of these houses, however, donít often blind side me. Iím usually well-aware of the continuing stress and pitfalls. The problem, particularly with the 2nd house things, is that I canít seem to motivate myself to take care of them. Iím sort of like a deer in headlights. I can see the car coming half a mile away, but I just stand there and stare at it until it runs me over. When I was married, I had very few problems managing money and sticking to a budget and keeping records (as long as my husband was doing the hard stuff like actually paying the bills and making deposits Ė two things I am loathe to do for some reason). Single, Iím ridiculously impaired.
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Issues of the 5th house of creativity and romance will tell to be supportive and easier to deal with emotionally. I am not telling you that you will have a romance, only that creativity will allow you a way to deal with the emotional issues of the 6th house.
Usually does Ė especially lately, though I do stay away from gambling and pregnancy is not an option. 
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Further the stuff of the 5th house includes CREATIVITY, CHILDREN, PREGNANCY, LOVE AFFAIRS, ENTERTAINMENT, SPECULATION, GAMBLING, COMMUNITY PROPERTY
Second, Saturn and the ASC are both very high friction, and very powerful in the emotional issues for you for this period.
Saturn represents DISCIPLINE, CAUTION, PATIENCE, PRUDENCE, THRIFT, dealing with LIMITATION, BURDENS and LESSONS, earning SUCCESS, PESSIMISM, NARROW-MINDEDNESS, DOUBTS, and SHORT-SIGHTEDNESS. You may find that you are locked into more caution than you want, forced to discipline yourself. But remember that Saturn can also be your Guardian Angel. If Saturn is giving you excessive discipline, burdens and lessons, this is for a good reason. Rather than fighting against this, put your self into it and jump whole hog into planning for the future, dealing with the limitations, and finding ways around them. Use the caution and patience that Saturn is providing rather than fighting against it.
Oh! Saturn is where I get my predilection for thrift! Excellent  I have noticed a lot more caution, of late. Itís very rare for me to seriously consider leaving a relationship (which has happened a lot recently) or express real doubt Ė pessimism, yes, but doubt is fairly rare. Often, during these ďdoubtingĒ times, I wonder if the unease is really my own fear of commitment, disguising itself. When I actually think about it, I donít doubt my significant other as much as I doubt myself and my ability to grow and change.

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But you are also supported by the energies of Jupiter and Venus, which are almost a balance to the stern Saturn discipline. But remember a strong Jupiter can also expand anything he touches, so he could also expand Saturn. But it will be in a good way. Its sort of like having the wicked fairy give you a nasty emotional shock, and then having the good fairy come along and help you see silver linings in everything.
I understand the Ďsilver liningsí principle quite well. I enjoy discovering them. 
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Also, Mercury is Out of bounds in this chart, but Mercury is very low in power, so it will not build recurring emotional issues like it might if it was powerful.
Mercury out of bounds will tends to augment your mental thinking.
Iíve read about this and, from what I discern, it can either make you very intense or very out-of-the-box and unique. Good to know itís rather low in power.
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Typically a Mars Sun conjunction in this temporary chart indicated the following concerns. There is the potential for high level explosive emotional conflicts. You may find yourself thinking you can stand up to anyone and that you should stand up for yourself. However, in using the energies in this way you may find that you end up in heated arguments and fights. You need to remember that you don't have to defeat others just to maintain yourself. Make use of the caution that Saturn is providing you, and don't let the powerful energies of Jupiter augment your potential explosive Mars/Sun Conjunction.
This is definitely quite true, of late. Things get heated so fast, I usually donít know why or what Iíve done to make them that way. The thing is, itís not me who gets heated. I stay relatively calm and collected. Itís whoever Iím talking to who gets defensive and combative. I do have to remind myself, quite often, to stop trying to ďwinĒ because thereís simply no point.
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This conjunction also gives you a boost of energy, often of the physical kind. You can work hard and long. So you need to use it for positive gains not for negative.
Havenít seen this manifest itself, yet. I have very little motivation for work (career work, not daily stuff) and itís actually a little concerning.
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Looking at the opposition, you have to realize that all the planets and points in it are powerful and that all of them are very high friction. Mars is slightly high friction(actually the highest friction in this chart) than the Sun, and slightly higher power than the Sun so Mars is the primary in this opposition.
The opposition provides a huge boost to the potential to emotional conflicts provided by the conjunction of mars with the Sun. But the boost is in the way that not only do you want to stand up for yourself, but that you find that others seem to want to oppose YOU on anything you want, especially if you allow your emotions to get involved. Since this is a tertiary chart on the limbic system, the key here first of all is to avoid like ebola any responses to others using feelings(angry, happy, sad, mad, etc). You must attempt to function like Mr. Spock on Star Trek, or Mr. Data without the emotion chip. Any use of emotion in your conflicts may turn everything into a conflagration.
Holy moly is this true. And I agree: going Spock helps tremendously.

Quote:
Additionally, you may find that the conflicts are often between your belief that you need to assert yourself, and at the same time build your relationship. The problem is that in this case you have to choose. You can't have your cake and eat it in this case.
If you want to maintain the relationship you will need to pick your battles, and most of the time back off. If you back off, and let the other person take the lead, then you will find(again keeping your emotions out of it) that you can actually develop a cooperative scenario. But you will have to be secondary, not primary during the period of this progressed aspecting.
Yes, Iíve discovered this and I find that relaying as much as I can (in a way that doesnít blame or put words in anyoneís mouth) and then letting it go is the best possible approach. Ultimately, I value the relationship more than I do the argument so if Iím heard, thatís good enough for me.
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While you have a lot of energy, you can also over do it, and that high friction 6th house can lead you into an emotional exhaustion, which could(if you ignore the need for caution and allow your emotional system to go out of control) lead to illness, nervous or physical or both.
Well, thatís not so foreign a concept to me.  I think Iíve been taking fairly adequate steps at avoiding such a situation, though.

So, what does this all have to do with my original question? How does it tie in? I donít know that Iím giving any information that is useful from these ďcurrentĒ charts (that are actually over 2 months old now).
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  #23  
Unread 11-19-2014, 04:40 AM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

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Originally Posted by laurelin View Post
So, what does this all have to do with my original question? How does it tie in? I don’t know that I’m giving any information that is useful from these “current” charts (that are actually over 2 months old now).
These charts are not "OLD". They are much like a solar return chart and give a circumstance for an entire year.

As you your original question, we agreed that we were working on a full analysis of your whole chart, not just a quick answer to a question. If all you want is a quick answer to a question("...something in my chart that tells me what I need to do to stop having these intense reactions to break-ups?"), then there is no point in exploring your whole chart. You already got answers to your quick question.

Its your job to look at your whole chart and to the issues of the current yearly charts for emotions and cognition(that we have looked at so far) and put together how they affect the day to day events in your life. We don't call this "introspection" for nothing.

Last edited by Zarathu; 11-19-2014 at 04:43 AM.
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  #24  
Unread 11-19-2014, 05:02 AM
laurelin laurelin is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

Yes, obviously it's not called introspection for nothing. But, I don't feel like I'm going deep enough to call it introspection. I guess I'm looking for a common thread that ties these things together...not, necessarily, a solution.
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  #25  
Unread 11-19-2014, 06:10 AM
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miquar miquar is offline
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Re: Abnormal, intense reaction to abandonment

This isn't intended to be contentious, but its worth noting that detail and depth are not the same thing. Deep self-enquiry requires an emptying of thoughts, opinions and information. Terrestrial and celestial rhythms arise out of the same emptiness - that's why astrology is valid. But using astrology to try to see deeply into life, rather than just accumulate ideas about life, is like trying to understand a river bed by looking across from one bank to the other.

The 'common thread' that links all the things together cannot be seen on any chart - its the very notion of separate selfhood that causes all the problems. Self-enquiry, done in the right spirit, leads quickly to a knowing that there is actually 'nobody home'. There is just life 'humaning' at a particular juncture of what we call space and time. We add the idea of 'me' and that is the root of all of our perceived problems.
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