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  #1  
Unread 11-24-2014, 02:31 PM
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Kindly interpret this chart Traditionally

I'm pretty familiar with my chart in a modern context. However, I'm always looking to learn more, and so, I'm curious to what my chart may also reveal in a Traditional Astrological interpretation.


Last edited by StillOne; 05-09-2015 at 04:32 PM.
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Zarathu (11-24-2014)
  #2  
Unread 11-24-2014, 03:35 PM
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Re: Kindly interpret this chart Traditionally

I, too, look forward to a Traditional interpretation of Stillone's chart by some brave soul here.
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  #3  
Unread 11-24-2014, 05:29 PM
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Re: Kindly interpret this chart Traditionally

sun 4th libra social orientation could be good at public relations,
lord venus sag 6th winning over opponents through charm of personality.

sun separative planet could impact property matters and mother's health
while lord 4th venus over 6th for health and challenges.
sun-sat/ketu and rahu sq impacting domestic comforts and peace,


saturn significator for father for the night born square sun 4th
probably conflict between parents, a challenging relationship.


sun libra weak decision making.

sat-ketu cancer asc tall, attention catching personality features,
hypersensitive, prone to pain-injury-surgery-accidents head-heart-lungs.


sun lord 2nd for finances debilated libra impacting family-finances-speech-
property matters-education-health,
impacting waist, abdominals, heart, stomach, lungs.

sat aspecting own cap 7th good for business-vocation
but may not be good for health of spouse.
rahu 7th business-personal foreign relationships.


lords 1/7 moon-sat cancer-gemini 2/12 from each other
inclined towards relationship but semi-friendly signs
impacting relationship-mutual prosperity.

moon-venus opp 6/12 artistic aptitudes, but
strained relationship over gemini-sag unfriendly signs.

asc moon negating to 12th tending to foreign lands, health issues.
moon gemini analytical aptitude but confused decision making.


sat-ketu/rahu opp tending to rise-fall, calling for ancestor worship.


saturn aspecting aries 10th impacting career.
mars lord 10th retro over inimical taurus 11th
delays in career-gains-rewards.
fixed taurus inimical for movable cancer asc
gains-income-friendships under stress-delays.
11th lord venus/6th greater efforts towards income-rewards.

retro mars towards own aries 10th,
growth and riches through own merit,
good at operations-projects management.
sun elevated aspect over aries 10th promoting career.

mars taurus inclined to hotel management, dairy technology, etc
mer scorpio 5th occult-research aptitudes.
pars fortuna 5th scorpio for education-research etc.

retro mars aries sq elevated aspect over cap 7th
supportive of business-vocation.


jup 9th lord negating to acq 8th negating luck/support from father,
aptitude for research-reform.
jup 9th from moon over saturnine acq settling at 36+.
sat lord 9th from moon over asc cancer,
sat-ketu sensitive tending to rise-fall,
sat-rahu opp calling for ancestor worship.


hope generic observations-inputs help take stock chart-transits.

could share specific feedbacks per return,
points in agreement-disagreements.
hope find useful reflect further, pick as relevant.

wishing well,


kshantaram
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Last edited by kshantaram; 11-24-2014 at 05:41 PM.
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  #4  
Unread 11-25-2014, 12:04 AM
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Re: Kindly interpret this chart Traditionally

Hi StillOne,

With the seventh house matter the most obvious culprit is Saturn, elementally cold and dry: not conducive to growth. He is also in detriment and peregrine. Lilly ascribed detriment a -5 value and peregrine -3 value, so it is a fair debility. Peregrine planets specifically have been said to tend toward malice. Given that the planet in question is Saturn, the suggestion of malice is underscored by Saturn's nature being the greater malefic. If you use whole signs, Saturn is in the first house, speaking about your personality, so I wonder whether you have malicious tendencies, coldness and dryness, which may destroy the growth of your relationships. Saturn is also out of sect in the first house and conjunct SN, are a further set of debilities.

I'll come back to this thread later.
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  #5  
Unread 11-25-2014, 06:45 AM
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Re: Kindly interpret this chart Traditionally

Your seventh house is interesting because of the first/seventh dichotomy which pops out with Saturn. But also because NN/SN are are inhabitants there too.

Vedic astrology uses traditional rulerships and whole signs. SN and NN are termed Ketu and Rahu, respectively, and offer rich interpretations. Ketu, in the first house, is symbolised by the headless body, whereas Rahu, in the seventh house, is symbolised by the bodyless head. People with Ketu in the first house are at a loss of ego and identity. They exist in isolation. But seventh house Rahu motivates for partnerships. Because Ketu is symbolised without a head and in the first house isolation, natives are truth seekers who participate in secret practices.

Rahu (NN), symbolised by the dragon's head, does not have a belly. It is forever thirsty but does not get its fill. Rahu in the seventh house signals a native to will have access to partnerships, but even if everything is offered within these partnerships, the native is never satisfied. Ketu will fight for independence, because in the first house it wants isolation. Yet Rahu will try to complete the native through partnership, but the native will always be disillusioned because, by definition, Rahu can never be sated, because of its bottomless belly, and Ketu will find flaws in partnership because it wants not partnership, being the polar opposite of Rahu. Does that makes sense? They are polar opposites and function as a unity.

Rahu acts as a mirror to the sign it is in. In your case, Rahu plays a hypothetical seventh house Saturn. The cold, dry quality of Saturn is present in the seventh house too (which it would not be if Rahu was not there). Saturn is reality, order and discipline. It prevents a partnership from being dreamy and romantic. Hypothetical (Rahu reflecting) Saturn will not allow it. The charm of this influence could be in the balance which Saturn can provide because the castle is less likely to be built on sand. Yet, because of Rahu's greediness this hypothetical Saturn, projected by Rahu, will always be debilitated. Hypothetical Saturn will apply pressure and judgement. And real Saturn, which aspects the seventh house from a debilitated position in Cancer will do the same. Regardless of this debility, however, Rahu will always want more and push for more. The Rahu-Ketu dichotomy could be frustrating to you. But the Saturn-hSaturn dichotomy could be an additonal wet blanket.

Is seventh house stability impossible?

It seems that seventh house stability is possible when situation benefits from criticism in buckets, particularly when it affords working alone. The seventh house is also about partnerships of the business type. The influence of Saturn from the first house, looking at the seventh, makes you a cold, shrewd, formidable businessman, who can keep his cards close to his chest. Saturn will apply pressure to be painfully realistic. Rahu will always want more and better. And Ketu is satisfied because it keeps its isolation.
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  #6  
Unread 11-26-2014, 02:52 PM
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Re: Kindly interpret this chart Traditionally

Its so nice when the OP takes the time to provide a detailed response to an astrologer's work. So many people will simply say, "yeah", when after asking a detained question, and detailed response is much more beneficial to everyone.

Kudos to Stillone for taking this seriously and caringly.
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  #7  
Unread 11-26-2014, 03:31 PM
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Re: Kindly interpret this chart Traditionally

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Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
... If Saturn represents the father in the scope, what does it say when it's in the 1st house?
I am unsure if that generalisation applies in the tradition. 4th Lord is the father. 10th Lord is the mother.

Saturn rules also the 8th house. Is it possible that inheritance is involved?

Last edited by Tessie; 11-26-2014 at 03:43 PM.
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  #8  
Unread 11-27-2014, 02:27 AM
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Re: Kindly interpret this chart Traditionally

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... have people's best interest at heart always. This gets me in to trouble as I'm very idealistic.
Interesting choice of words. If you do not mind me asking, do you realise that idealism is not synonymous with being loving? The two can be in opposition to one another, particularly over the long term, because the idea relies on the person being compatible with your idealism. Is that ever possible to sustain?

1. My mother was idealistic about me and had my best interests at heart every time she capped the pursuit of my interests in favour of her own. She thought she was being a good mother. I thought she did not understand the concept.

2. My exbf was idealistic about love when he renounced monogamy for polyamory, feeling that love knew no gender or boundary. He thought that is the purest way to live and raise children. As a monogamist, I was left out in the cold.

3. Muslim extremists were idealistic about blowing up themselves and people around them for love. I am not sure those on the receiving end of this idealism felt suicide bombing was in their best interests.

These sound like extreme examples but actually it is the notion of idealism itself that is the extremity. We have free will to live by our ideals, that is fine. But others have that right also. If we impinge on that right, because of our ideals, it is abuse. We can love people for who they are or we can love them according to our ideal. Since people are dynamic and subject to personal development by interpersonal difference, as a necessary process, it is impossible to sustain a 7th house ideal.

Having Rahu in the 7th house, you will be taught that lesson again and again, wanting to retreat to an isolated, egoless, immaterial state with Ketu in 1st house, for respite.

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Maybe I'm searching for identity? How to define myself...
Just so I know for my notes, are you saying that you feel a lack of identity?

About your identity and how you see yourself, do you think this may be accounted also by L1, the moon, being in aversion [out of sight] to the ascendant. Do you think you see yourself realistically?

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I'm unsure if going further for along the house rulers would have assisted you in coming to a different conclusion in these matters?
I am sorry to disappoint you. I am in the early stages of learning traditional astrology. You are my lab rat/human.

Last edited by Tessie; 11-27-2014 at 02:31 AM.
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  #9  
Unread 11-27-2014, 08:18 AM
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Re: Kindly interpret this chart Traditionally

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Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
Maybe so!

No specific debilitating health challenges so far. I'll keep this in mind.


Yes, this is accurate.


Yes probably so, I can be a bit idealistic.


Yes but not prone to injury or surgery so far.


No, seems I'm fortunate here for some reason so far. Maybe things will change in the future here. I'll keep it in mind.


ok


ok thank you

Yes, I'm artistic and have trouble developing it.


Ok I'll keep this in mind.


Unsure what you mean about "ancestor worship"

Ok good to know but seems this was contradicted earlier by something else.


Ok, so seems the consensus may be good career so far?


Yes definitely interested in occult research and research in general if I'm interested in something.



Well, I did receive quite good indirect support from my father.

Thank you!

appreciate the pointwise candid feedbacks, hope the reading was useful.

ancestor worship is praying for the peace of the family ancestors regularly, as per custom, doing charity, donating-serving at old age homes, etc.


kshantaram

ps : wonder why the whole text cannot be quoted, irrelevant paras could be deleted while responding to the relevant paras.
inability to quote the whole text may not allow pointwise responses if one chooses to disallowing building the context for the readers, making referencing tedious task. hope this will be reviewed and considered by forum admin please!
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Last edited by kshantaram; 11-27-2014 at 08:25 AM. Reason: inability to quote the whole text loosing the benefit of referencing while responding or the first time reader, etc looks odd
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  #10  
Unread 12-01-2014, 03:30 PM
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Re: Kindly interpret this chart Traditionally

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
I'm pretty familiar with my chart in a modern context. However, I'm always looking to learn more, and so, I'm curious to what my chart may also reveal in a Traditional Astrological interpretation.

Please feel free to point out anything of note. However, specifically I'm interested in what traditional astrology has to say about houses 4 and 7.

Is there anything in particular that stands out about house 4 in this chart? Roots, heritage, parental relations, the father in particular.
The first thing to notice about the 4th in this chart is that the 4th sign is intercepeted. This generally indicates that significations of the 4th have a difficulty expressing themselves. Saturn is a general significator of the father in a night chart, and we find Saturn in the 12th house, though in the 1st sign. Looking at Saturn's condition, he is about as out of sect/out of domain as he can get and in detriment, compounded by his proximity to the SN. He is also in his first station. The last aspect Saturn made was a sextile (intimate connection) with Mars, also in detriment and retrograde. That aspect had some postive reception for all that Saturn is in Mars' fall in that Mars received Saturn by term and triplicity, but Mars' retrograde motion indicates that what was a connection is no longer. Mars as ruler of the 10th sign gives connotations of the Mother (10th in traditional astrology) and combined with the aphorism that Saturn in the 12th could mean the absense of the father, as well as the intercepted 4th, leads me to wonder if StillOne's dad wasn't around much growing up, or at least not part of his permanent household.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
Anything of note regarding house 7 in this chart? Romantic partnership in particular.
The 7th house is fairly challenged as well, since it's rulers are the same Mars and Saturn just described.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
Hopefully this is not too much trouble to delineate.
This was a quicky and in no way complete!



Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
ps. Other questions: My Venus has a strong relationship with an outer planet in a modern chart. Is there anything worth noting in it's current context? Is Saturn weak or strong in house 1 and what is the result?
This question is the one that trips up most new traditional students consistantly. There is a difference between capable/competent and strength/angularity. Saturn is quite incompetent in this chart and though in the 1st sign (thus able to regard the ASC) still cadent. If Saturn were angular, he would still be incompetent, and would be able to be incompetent with strength. Sort of like when my husband, who knows nothing about electrical wiriing, decided he was going to rewire our kitchen. We are lucky the house didn't burn down...
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  #11  
Unread 12-01-2014, 04:20 PM
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Re: Kindly interpret this chart Traditionally

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The first thing to notice about the 4th in this chart is that the 4th sign is intercepeted. This generally indicates that significations of the 4th have a difficulty expressing themselves. Saturn is a general significator of the father in a night chart, and we find Saturn in the 12th house, though in the 1st sign. Looking at Saturn's condition, he is about as out of sect/out of domain as he can get and in detriment, compounded by his proximity to the SN. He is also in his first station. The last aspect Saturn made was a sextile (intimate connection) with Mars, also in detriment and retrograde. That aspect had some postive reception for all that Saturn is in Mars' fall in that Mars received Saturn by term and triplicity, but Mars' retrograde motion indicates that what was a connection is no longer. Mars as ruler of the 10th sign gives connotations of the Mother (10th in traditional astrology) and combined with the aphorism that Saturn in the 12th could mean the absense of the father, as well as the intercepted 4th, leads me to wonder if StillOne's dad wasn't around much growing up, or at least not part of his permanent household.
BINGO! Nicely done tsmall! Father was 97% absent. However, he did provide financial support and some nice vacations. I was really curious if traditional astrology would pick up all the nuances of this here.

Didn't know traditional astrology used intercepted houses.

Is there anything else you can pick up about the 4th house? Stable childhood or did I move?




Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
The 7th house is fairly challenged as well, since it's rulers are the same Mars and Saturn just described.
In light of this, can we say that as a result of a missing father, house 7 affairs were impaired?




Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
This was a quicky and in no way complete!
Ok





Quote:
Originally Posted by tsmall View Post
This question is the one that trips up most new traditional students consistantly. There is a difference between capable/competent and strength/angularity. Saturn is quite incompetent in this chart and though in the 1st sign (thus able to regard the ASC) still cadent. If Saturn were angular, he would still be incompetent, and would be able to be incompetent with strength. Sort of like when my husband, who knows nothing about electrical wiriing, decided he was going to rewire our kitchen. We are lucky the house didn't burn down...
Interesting and thank you! Glad your house didn't burn down.
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  #12  
Unread 12-02-2014, 04:53 AM
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Re: Kindly interpret this chart Traditionally

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BINGO! Nicely done tsmall! Father was 97% absent. However, he did provide financial support and some nice vacations. I was really curious if traditional astrology would pick up all the nuances of this here.
There are more "nuances" to be found. The problem is that it takes longer to explain them than it does to find them. 4th sign is intercepted by Virgo/Mercury, with Mercury posited in the radical 5th, which is the turned second. As to the financial support/vacations, look to Jupiter in Aquarius on the cusp of the 8th. Dad supports, and dad leaves an inheritance.

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Didn't know traditional astrology used intercepted houses.
This made me laugh. Intercepted signs are not a modern invention. Quadrant based house systems have existed even going back to the Hellenistic era, and no matter which system you choose, including Porphyry, you will have signs intercepted at one time or another.

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Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
Is there anything else you can pick up about the 4th house? Stable childhood or did I move?
I don't know. Did you? Probably, as cusp of the 4th is in a mutable sign, with the 4th sign being cardinal = initiating action. But you would be better able to answer that question. As to stability, well, it looks to me like (again going back to those nuances mentioned earlier) that Mom did double duty, as the exaltation ruler of the 10th sign is in the 4th sign. In fall (I know quite a bit about fallen Suns) but angular. Add to that Mars retrograde and I'd say that Mom had some stuff of her own to overcome. This would likely have influenced you quite a bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
In light of this, can we say that as a result of a missing father, house 7 affairs were impaired?
Correlation does not imply causation. We are all born into this world with things about ourselves that we need to learn and grow with. Studying astrology isn't about looking for someone else to blame, or even looking at circumstances to blame. If anything, learning about our past, present and future places more responsibility on US to accept our own faults, and either accept them as they are or learn how to change ourselves in order to live fuller lives. It is also necessary to understand that traditional astrology grew out of a couple of very large philosophical viewpoints. There is Stoicism, which suggests, ala Ptolemy, that prescience is useful in order to accept that what will happen will happen, and to adjust ourselves to be calm in spirit about it (which, btw, led Vettius Valens, who must have seen something in his own chart, to isolate himself from love and most of the world) and (skipping about four or five others) there is Hermeticism...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeticism

In traditional astrology, each planet can wear many hats, and it is necessary to be able to separate out those hats when delineating a chart. You asked about 4th house matters. Then you asked about 7th house matters. These two are not going to be the same. It may be a result of an absentee father (that's probably for you and a therapist to determine) but the rulers of your 7th (Saturn and Mars) are both impeded in and of themselves. In a sense, Saturn is in joy in the 12th, happily making you miserable and in full view of the ASC. Mars well into his retrograde position, and in detriment, is like...turning away all comers by what ever means necessary.

Saturn is making a phasis in your chart, and completely out of sect in his first station to boot. You have a very frightened Saturn in your 12th house of self undoing, in the same sign as the ASC so therefore right in your face about it, separating from out of reception with the exaltation ruler of your 7th house who is retrograde and debilitated. Saturn colors every aspect of your life. You need to learn to love this, understand this, in order to overcome this.

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Originally Posted by StillOne View Post
Ok
I apologize, but consider that a natal chart is the blueprint for an entire life, and must be treated as such. There is a reason that consulting traditional natal astrologers charge upwards of $300 for a chart reading, and even then must still distill it down to a couple of questions pertaining to what the querent wishes to explore in the moment, and then cast multiple derivative charts to boil down the answer.


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and thank you! Glad your house didn't burn down.
You and me both!
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  #13  
Unread 12-02-2014, 02:38 PM
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Re: Kindly interpret this chart Traditionally

edited ...

Last edited by StillOne; 05-09-2015 at 04:38 PM.
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