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  #1  
Unread 10-21-2014, 08:33 AM
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Post How astrology works

Question: How exactly does Astrology work?

I have always been fascinated why astrology works. I first studied astrology when I were 16 years old. Throughout the years I have advanced my knowledge in astrology, especially in the areas of natal, synastry and predictive astrology.

What was first a hobby then become an obsession. I spent many hours doing astrology readings for people, from all walks of life.

Although I have a passion for the mystical sides of life such as astrology, I also have an engineering background plus a keen interest in science. I graduated in 2011 with a BEng (honours) in Automotive Engineering. When analyzing astrology charts I like to combine engineering disciplines with my superb intuition.

Many people have different idea’s when it comes to how astrology works. I believe a good understanding of science and astrology may be able to answer this question.

I believe the fundamental basics of astrology is about observing patterns and cycles, then correlating this with human behavior.

Engineering and scientific disciplines use the same process to solve problems. Many famous scientists such as Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein would have observed patterns in the cosmos, they came up with a mathematical formula to explain the pattern occurring.

For me the best way to understand how astrology works is to compare it to weather predictions. People many years ago would not have thought weather prediction to be possible. However, it just so happens we can today.

We have come to realize there is some kind of order within our weather system. So it is logical to say, why cant there be order (or a pattern) to human behavior?, I believe this order is called astrology!

Just like a seed follows the pattern of the seasons, we follow the continuous pattern of the cosmos.

Please feel free to give your opinion on how astrology works.


Kind regards,

Jamie Slack
www.jksastrology.com

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  #2  
Unread 10-21-2014, 09:55 AM
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Re: How astrology works

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja7me View Post

Question: How exactly does Astrology work?

I have always been fascinated why astrology works. I first studied astrology when I were 16 years old. Throughout the years I have advanced my knowledge in astrology, especially in the areas of natal, synastry and predictive astrology.

What was first a hobby then become an obsession. I spent many hours doing astrology readings for people, from all walks of life.

Although I have a passion for the mystical sides of life such as astrology, I also have an engineering background plus a keen interest in science. I graduated in 2011 with a BEng (honours) in Automotive Engineering. When analyzing astrology charts I like to combine engineering disciplines with my superb intuition.

Many people have different idea’s when it comes to how astrology works. I believe a good understanding of science and astrology may be able to answer this question.

I believe the fundamental basics of astrology is about observing patterns and cycles, then correlating this with human behavior.

Engineering and scientific disciplines use the same process to solve problems. Many famous scientists such as Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein would have observed patterns in the cosmos, they came up with a mathematical formula to explain the pattern occurring.

For me the best way to understand how astrology works is to compare it to weather predictions. People many years ago would not have thought weather prediction to be possible. However, it just so happens we can today.

We have come to realize there is some kind of order within our weather system. So it is logical to say, why cant there be order (or a pattern) to human behavior?, I believe this order is called astrology!

Just like a seed follows the pattern of the seasons, we follow the continuous pattern of the cosmos.

Please feel free to give your opinion on how astrology works.


Kind regards,

Jamie Slack
www.jksastrology.com
THE DOCTRINE OF SIGNATURES http://www.skyscript.co.uk/doctrineofsignatures.html

ASTROLOGY
' S SUBJECTIVE AND PROJECTIVE CHARACTER


'.......What is the cause of effect of astrology, what is its way of functioning?
On which mental - or physical - or psychological mechanisms is it grounded?
Why do statistical tests to prove it always fail?
My thesis of astrology as being primarily of a subjective and projective nature
may sound provocative. Yet, in the following I list a series of points
or hints to epistemologically support this......'
http://astroinfo.astrologix.de/erken.../subjProGB.htm
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  #3  
Unread 10-21-2014, 11:02 AM
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Re: How astrology works

Hi JUPITERASC,

Thanks for your input. The Doctrine of signatures is an interesting read. But I would like to break it down what it actually means:

This is a quote from the article you provided (doctrine of signatures):

'The doctrine of Signatures, therefore, refers to what is taught concerning the marks placed upon all creatures and things by stellar influences. The identity of all things may thus be recognized by the mark placed, or the signature impressed upon them by invisible influences'

This sounds complicated. But it is basically saying:
Changes in the universe (visible or invisible) make a direct change to life on earth. This change creates many unique changes. These unique changes are 'signatures'

I totally agree with this statement, this is why everyone is unique. But it does not explain why or how astrology works.


I would now like to extend my explanation further as to why astrology works:

Modern human beings have been on Earth about 250,000 years.

All life on Earth is forced to life by nature’s rules (i.e. change in seasons, weather, natural disasters, etc.)

Overtime we become in synchronisation with events occurring in space and the entire universe. We have to be in sync, as there is no choice!

Because our solar system runs like clockwork, it is therefore predictable. As we are in sync with the universe, we are predictable.

Predictability is increased when more statistical data is acquired. This is why weather systems are now predictable. Astrology will become more predictable once more statistical data is collected.

This data has been collected since astrology began thousands of years ago. We now have the tools to collect this data more accurately. Unfortunately science is not interested in astrology, science could progress astrology massively.

I read an article last month. It was about predicting crime before it happens. They worked out crime could be predicted if there was enough information. A computer could collect vast amounts of statistical data (all linked to crime behaviour). From that a prediction is made about where the next crime zone will be. I compare this to astrology.

Kind Regards,

Jamie Slack

http://www.jksastrology.com
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  #4  
Unread 10-21-2014, 03:24 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: How astrology works

There is a discussion about the possible physics of astrology written by a PhD level nuclear physicist on my website at:

http://zarathuastrology.zohosites.co...Astrology.html
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  #5  
Unread 10-21-2014, 04:30 PM
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Re: How astrology works

Hi Zarathu,

Very interesting read. Includes many different theories.
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  #6  
Unread 10-21-2014, 07:22 PM
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Re: How astrology works

Quote:
Originally Posted by ja7me View Post


Hi JUPITERASC,


Thanks for your input. The Doctrine of signatures is an interesting read. But I would like to break it down what it actually means:

This is a quote from the article you provided (doctrine of signatures):

'The doctrine of Signatures, therefore, refers to what is taught concerning the marks placed upon all creatures and things by stellar influences. The identity of all things may thus be recognized by the mark placed, or the signature impressed upon them by invisible influences'

This sounds complicated. But it is basically saying:
Changes in the universe (visible or invisible) make a direct change to life on earth. This change creates many unique changes. These unique changes are 'signatures'

I totally agree with this statement, this is why everyone is unique. But it does not explain why or how astrology works.


I would now like to extend my explanation further as to why astrology works:

Modern human beings have been on Earth about 250,000 years.

All life on Earth is forced to life by nature’s rules (i.e. change in seasons, weather, natural disasters, etc.)

Overtime we become in synchronisation with events occurring in space and the entire universe. We have to be in sync, as there is no choice!

Because our solar system runs like clockwork, it is therefore predictable. As we are in sync with the universe, we are predictable.

Predictability is increased when more statistical data is acquired. This is why weather systems are now predictable. Astrology will become more predictable once more statistical data is collected.

This data has been collected since astrology began
thousands of years ago.
We now have the tools to collect this data
more accurately.


Unfortunately science is not interested in astrology, science could progress astrology massively.


I read an article last month. It was about predicting crime before it happens. They worked out crime could be predicted if there was enough information. A computer could collect vast amounts of statistical data (all linked to crime behaviour). From that a prediction is made about where the next crime zone will be. I compare this to astrology.

Kind Regards,

Jamie Slack

http://www.jksastrology.com
However accurate the current data collection methods may or may not be
thousands more years must still pass
in order to collect the data using these 'improved methods'
and
during those thousands of years
data collection methods are likely to continue to 'improve' also



We are born at a given moment, in a given place
and, like vintage years of wine, we have the qualities of the year
and of the season of which we are born.
Astrology does not lay claim to anything more. ~ Carl Gustav Jung


A child is born on that day and at that hour
when the celestial rays are in mathematical harmony with his individual karma. ~ Sri Yukteswar


Anyone can be a millionaire,
but to become a billionaire you need an astrologer. ~ John Pierpont Morgan
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  #7  
Unread 10-22-2014, 02:22 PM
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Re: How astrology works

It depends. I'm not a spiritual person, but then even though science can accurately describe a lot of things, there are things we know it cannot describe.

It may be possible that celestial objects affect us in ways we cannot understand. The thing is a person's natal chart is often correct and seldom if ever lies. So if astrology is bunk, then this fact has to be explained somehow. It's too much for frankly billions of people to have near perfectly accurate charts, and then have this be a big fluke lol
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  #8  
Unread 10-22-2014, 03:10 PM
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Re: How astrology works

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukdesifem View Post

It depends. I'm not a spiritual person, but then even though science can accurately describe a lot of things, there are things we know it cannot describe.

It may be possible
that celestial objects affect us
in ways we cannot understand.


The thing is a person's natal chart is often correct and seldom if ever lies.
So if astrology is bunk,
then this fact has to be explained somehow.
It's too much for frankly billions of people to have near perfectly accurate charts,
and then have this be a big fluke lol

Sun and Moon are two celestial objects that affect us in very understandable ways
for example, both SUN and MOON have influence tides

also

Keep in mind that without the Sun
our SOLAR SYSTEM is gone



INTERESTING RESEARCH BY RETIRED MATHEMATICS TEACHER LAWRENCE EDWARDS

'....In 1982 Edwards daily photographed tree buds on a selection of trees
and found that buds expanded and contracted to an approximate fortnightly rhythm.
These periods varied between 13.6 and 14.7 days
but each species of bud kept the same period in their rhythm.
Edwards realised these were astronomical rhythms
and
each period correlated to the Moon's alignment with a planet and the Earth
....'



'....When Earth, Moon and planet were in a straight line
the buds of the tree where in a more rounded, expanded shape.
When the Moon and planet where 900 apart
(as seen from the Earth)
buds took on a more oval, contracted shape,
sharp at one end and blunt at the other.
Even in middle of Winter buds are doing a rhythmic dance
whose tune is called by the planetary movements.....'
http://www.astro-calendar.com/shtml/...edwards2.shtml

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  #9  
Unread 10-22-2014, 03:12 PM
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Re: How astrology works

Quote:
Originally Posted by ukdesifem View Post
It depends. I'm not a spiritual person, but then even though science can accurately describe a lot of things, there are things we know it cannot describe.

It may be possible that celestial objects affect us in ways we cannot understand. The thing is a person's natal chart is often correct and seldom if ever lies. So if astrology is bunk, then this fact has to be explained somehow. It's too much for frankly billions of people to have near perfectly accurate charts, and then have this be a big fluke lol
Its only reductionist thinking that would look for objects affecting us. This view exists in a Flatland where only the physical that you can see and touch exists. Astrology has little to do with the scientism reductionist viewpoint. The physical objects in the sky to not affect our thinking and actions; its it spiritual that lies behind these objects which affects our thinking and actions since it is this plane we are talking about.

I suggest you all read a little bit of Ken Wilber.
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Unread 10-22-2014, 03:19 PM
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Re: How astrology works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post

Its only reductionist thinking that would look for objects affecting us.
This view exists in a Flatland where only the physical that you can see and touch exists.
Astrology has little to do with the scientism reductionist viewpoint.
The physical objects in the sky to not affect our thinking and actions;
its it spiritual that lies behind these objects which affects our thinking and actions
since it is this plane we are talking about.

I suggest you all read a little bit of Ken Wilber.

Obviously opinions vary on this matter

HOWEVER

clearly 'objects' such as the SUN
have a very obvious affect on all life on earth

PLANET EARTH itself is an 'object'

remove the 'object' PLANET EARTH

and life as understood on PLANET EARTH is gone

ALSO

remove the SUN = end of life as understood today on planet Earth
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Unread 10-22-2014, 03:22 PM
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Re: How astrology works

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Obviously opinions vary on this matter
HOWEVER, clearly 'objects' such as the SUN have a very obvious affect on all life on earth.

PLANET EARTH itself is an 'object', i.e., remove the SUN = end of life as understood today on planet Earth.
Don't go literal on me, Jupiter, you know very well(and way more than most) exactly what I'm talking about.
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Unread 10-22-2014, 03:51 PM
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Re: How astrology works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post

Don't go literal on me, Jupiter,
you know very well
(and way more than most)
exactly what I'm talking about.

Astrology is not considered 'scientific' in the West
HOWEVER
Vedic Astrology IS a science
Following a judgement of the Andhra Pradesh High Court in 2001, which favoured astrology
and
some Indian universities offer advanced degrees in astrology.

Important to be clear exactly what is being discussed
so do clarify in more detail for those who may not have understood
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  #13  
Unread 10-22-2014, 03:53 PM
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Re: How astrology works

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post
Astrology is not considered 'scientific' in the West
HOWEVER
Vedic Astrology IS a science
Following a judgement of the Andhra Pradesh High Court in 2001, which favoured astrology
and
some Indian universities offer advanced degrees in astrology.

Important to be clear exactly what is being discussed
so do clarify in more detail for those who may not have understood
Oh.... well. Maybe you didn't get the underlying statement afterall.
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Unread 10-22-2014, 04:02 PM
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Re: How astrology works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post

Oh.... well.
Maybe you didn't get the underlying statement afterall.

Maybe
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Unread 10-22-2014, 04:06 PM
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Re: How astrology works

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Maybe
So cryptic. When YOU say maybe, you mean "Oh yes I did."
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Unread 10-22-2014, 04:20 PM
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Re: How astrology works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post

So cryptic.
When
YOU say maybe, you mean "Oh yes I did."

'How astrology works'
is a matter that attracts multifarious opinions
not all of which concur

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Unread 10-22-2014, 04:25 PM
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Re: How astrology works

Quote:
Originally Posted by JUPITERASC View Post

'How astrology works'
is a matter that attracts multifarious opinions
not all of which concur

JupiterASC: your most endearing quality! Always the mediator: no matter what! How I wish you lived on my side of the Atlantic. We could have such good conversation over a pint of Guiness!

Last edited by Zarathu; 10-22-2014 at 04:28 PM.
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Unread 10-22-2014, 04:31 PM
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Re: How astrology works

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JupiterASC: your most endearing quality!
Always the mediator: no matter what!

How I wish you lived on my side of the Atlantic.

We could have such good conversation over a pint of Guiness!
On an online forum, my home is anywhere and everywhere
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Unread 10-22-2014, 06:20 PM
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Re: How astrology works

The Sun and Moon affect each living thing on Earth (For example, seasons and tides)

However, the planets do not seem to influence us directly.

Some people may use this as an argument to why astrology can not work.

I believe astrology works because the sun, moon and planets are used as a reference point. Human behavior is plotted against this reference point.

Planets orbit the sun with predictability. Its kind of like a clock, with no end or beginning.

Because the sun, moon and planets have predictable cycles. Life on earth can be predictable.

We can predict when a seed will grow, as we have knowledge about the seasons. Astrology uses the same concept, but on a more complex scale.

Here is a quick thought experiment:
If we removed Pluto? could we still take Pluto into account? when doing an astrological reading.

My answer is yes! but only if we knew where it was going before it disappeared (we could calculate the path). This is because Pluto does not influence us directly, but is used as a reference point in the cycle.

Regards,

Jamie Slack
http://www.jksastrology.com
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Unread 10-22-2014, 06:56 PM
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Re: How astrology works

An astrological chart, or horoscope, is a map of the heavens as seen from specific coordinates in spacetime.

The map defines a Moment in Spacetime, unique in all of Creation. No two Moments are the same. Each has its own unique identity, its specific nature.

Carl Jung said that "Anything born in a given moment is of the nature of that moment." It is a scientific axiom that the outcome of anything is dependent on its initial conditions.

The birthchart describes the Moment in which a human takes its first breath, the Moment of Birth, that Moment in Spacetime. The being born in that moment is of the nature of that moment.

The planets, stars, do not influence us. They merely show our Moment, its nature and therefore its destiny, its logical path of development.

We, all of us, everything that was, is, will be and what is not...emanate from the Big Bang. We are One. The galaxies, the stars, the cosmic clouds, the energies at play and the laws they observe, the frogs, the fish, the water they swim in, and me....All is One.

The astrologer, reading the map of the heavens, transforms the planets, their positions, their interrelationships into symbols pertinent to human affairs. The Sun, as center of the "universe" (our solar system), thus becomes -- in human terms -- the Center of Self. The Sun is the "central issue" of the Moment. All things orbit it. It holds all else in subjection and thus is King. It shines brightly of itself and thus is glory and honor. The symbolism derives from the celestial facts.

The transformation of celestial fact into symbol occurs in the mind of the astrologer. All we have done in astrology is to have discovered the Order of the Universe as it is displayed in the heavens. Not understanding our discovery, we attribute "influences" to Saturn and Sun, when in fact they are simply manifestations of the Moment. Astrology is the study of "Emergence" or "Initiation", the powerful and determinant First Moment.

Thus, the solar system as a whole -- it is the dymamic factor -- describes "the Moment" whose nature is "me" -- the Moment and I are identical because I am that Moment made manifest. The map -- showing the planets in their ephemeral positions -- describes the Moment because All is One. No "influences" are necessary.

Last edited by greybeard; 10-22-2014 at 07:13 PM.
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  #21  
Unread 10-22-2014, 06:56 PM
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Re: How astrology works

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zarathu View Post
Its only reductionist thinking that would look for objects affecting us. This view exists in a Flatland where only the physical that you can see and touch exists. Astrology has little to do with the scientism reductionist viewpoint. The physical objects in the sky to not affect our thinking and actions; its it spiritual that lies behind these objects which affects our thinking and actions since it is this plane we are talking about.

I suggest you all read a little bit of Ken Wilber.
then we agree to disagree. It's just to keep an open mind, in that we don't know if it were possible.
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Unread 10-22-2014, 07:46 PM
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Re: How astrology works

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Originally Posted by ukdesifem View Post
then we agree to disagree. It's just to keep an open mind, in that we don't know if it were possible.
We live in a largely reductionist society. For more than a 1000 years before the beginning of the industrial revolution the ascendent philosophy was the dominant one. Since the advent of science, scientism has developed, and people now are stuck in believing that it doesn't exist if there is no see it touch it reason for its existence. Even most people believe that the brain is the mind, rather than the reality that the brain only exists to bring the mind out into the physical.

In astrology as in medicine and many areas, researchers continually look for and expect to find a silver bullet causal one-to-one relationship for how things work. Sometimes their causal relationships are even ridiculous like using a trace gas as the mover and shaker of climate change.

But the reality is that astrology is not a silver bullet direct causal set of circumstances. Its a set or circumstances that is a subset of Chaos Theory(search the archives for a long discussion on astrology and chaos theory). This does not cause that. This and this and this and that influence this when this and that and this are happenings. But if that changes, then all bets are off.
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Unread 10-23-2014, 06:14 PM
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Re: How astrology works

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Its only reductionist thinking that would look for objects affecting us. This view exists in a Flatland where only the physical that you can see and touch exists. Astrology has little to do with the scientism reductionist viewpoint. The physical objects in the sky to not affect our thinking and actions; its it spiritual that lies behind these objects which affects our thinking and actions since it is this plane we are talking about.

I suggest you all read a little bit of Ken Wilber.
I'm just saying there may be measurable forces we don't know nor understand. So astrology very well could be scienftifically valid.
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Unread 10-23-2014, 06:35 PM
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Re: How astrology works

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We live in a largely reductionist society. For more than a 1000 years before the beginning of the industrial revolution the ascendent philosophy was the dominant one. Since the advent of science, scientism has developed, and people now are stuck in believing that it doesn't exist if there is no see it touch it reason for its existence. Even most people believe that the brain is the mind, rather than the reality that the brain only exists to bring the mind out into the physical.

In astrology as in medicine and many areas, researchers continually look for and expect to find a silver bullet causal one-to-one relationship for how things work. Sometimes their causal relationships are even ridiculous like using a trace gas as the mover and shaker of climate change.

But the reality is that astrology is not a silver bullet direct causal set of circumstances. Its a set or circumstances that is a subset of Chaos Theory(search the archives for a long discussion on astrology and chaos theory). This does not cause that. This and this and this and that influence this when this and that and this are happenings. But if that changes, then all bets are off.
Yes, cause and effect is complex. However, it doesn't make sense to say that astrology has no material basis. Any good scientist would have an open mind, as the scientific method isn't perfect, it's just the best method we have of testing knowledge and how the universe is, and no scientific conclusion is perfect or absolute.
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Unread 10-23-2014, 11:38 PM
Zarathu Zarathu is offline
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Re: How astrology works

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Yes, cause and effect is complex. However, it doesn't make sense to say that astrology has no material basis. Any good scientist would have an open mind, as the scientific method isn't perfect, it's just the best method we have of testing knowledge and how the universe is, and no scientific conclusion is perfect or absolute.
We've reached the end of the reductionist method. Please read about complexity theory.

Having an open mind now is counter productive to getting the grants that you need to do science. Ask my PhD scientist son about that sometime.
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