Horary Test: Is Astrology a Divine Science?

Well, it's not quite a standard horary test, as we had before, because there isn't one answer to the question, but it's more like a challenge for your horary skills.

Here it goes: Is Astrology a Divine Science?

The question came allegedly out of the blue, the querent (not me) couldn't specify what prompted it.

Jan 5, 2007, 10:40:11 am EET, Tirgu Mures, Romania, EU (24e34, 46n32).

Hmm
Although i'm not so fluent in horary, i shall try to give an answer
One can always learn...

I think the Uranus Rising, could give a yes...
But the use of Modern Planets in horary is a no no, i guess...

I think we should look at the 11th house (science) and 9th or 12th (divine)

The 11th house is signified by Saturn, who is intercepted in 6 and detrimented...

The 9th house, is signified by Jupiter who is there in Sag... But there's no aspect between J & S

The 12th house has also Cap on it...

If we would use the modern rulers (Uranus, Neptune) i'd say yes... although there's an opposition between Neptune & Saturn... a separating one

With use of classic rulers, i'd say no... No aspects what so ever, and with the use of house 11 for science... His ruler is detrimented...

well the asc and ninth are both jupiter and square, so I would say yes to divinity and no to "science". I could go into better detail but I have to go to work now....

Virgo

I may have been a little hasty....according to Webster's:
Science: systematized knowledge or branch of it
Divine: of God or a god, prophecy or guess, supremely good
I really do have to go to work now.

Virgo

Interesting that this chart has background information.

The modern usage of Uranus and North Node many would not agree whit them, but Uranus means doctrine, dogma of something new, invention, the person wants the scientifical proof and conception about it. North Node means the eagerness and acceptation of astrology to the one who asked it.
Moon in a 6th house, means the planet is slow, and in Leo means that the person again accepts astrology, but it's rather a little skeptical and want's some scientifical strong proofs.

ASC is Jupiter in 9th house and in it's own sign, powerfull ( 9th is the house of divinity, ideology, superior ideeas, religion, astrology etc ). Jupiter is in square to ASC, it's a good news that it has reception, but the bad news is that it's a difficult reception, meaning that Astrology is something relevated by the divine plane, but isn't proven totaly, still many are against it. Moon trining Jupiter means yes whit no doubt, Astrology is something divine and scietifical, but needs more concepts so it could even make skeptics believe it.

Eienstien wanted to prove Astrology is wrong, but after he studied his own, he realised that Astrology is real, but hard to prove.

Interesting ideas.

Some thoughts on this chart:

I didn't quite understand Betelguese's idea: "Moon in a 6th house, means the planet is slow, and in Leo means that the person again accepts astrology, but it's rather a little skeptical and want's some scientifical strong proofs." although knowing the querent, I can tell that this is true. The Moon is actually moving slowly at the horary moment (12deg49min/day is slow).

So, back to the chart: astrology, as any knowledge system (science), is a 9th house matter, therefore represented in the chart by Jupiter as the querent. Both astrology and the querent being represented by the same planet is a testimony of a querent believing and practicing astrology (at some level).

Jupiter is very strong in its domicile and its own house, so definitely astrology is a great science. Jupiter is also the perfect planet to represent a divine science that is a science of the Universe, as it the natural significator of knowledge and understanding (by contrast, Mercury only rules information and learning). But Jupiter is also the greater benefic of the zodiac and the natural significator of priests, gurus or other spiritual persons, usually considered to be closer to the Divinity.

Even more, Venus, the other natural benefic of the zodiac, is applying to sextile Jupiter, from the 12th house (illumination, hidden matters). The Moon reinforces this connection by acting as a translator of light from Venus (separating opposition) to Jupiter (applying trine). So all benefic planets (benefic influences) are relevant in the chart.

The other aspect that is interesting to explore is the Jupiter-Uranus square. Uranus is the modern ruler of astrology (while Mercury is considered the traditional ruler). It may be that this aspect actually refers to the uniqueness of astrology or to the approach to astrology taken by the querent. This aspect also needs some more discussion.

Please everybody share more ideas and opinions.

Radu said:

I didn't quite understand Betelguese's idea: "Moon in a 6th house, means the planet is slow, and in Leo means that the person again accepts astrology, but it's rather a little skeptical and want's some scientifical strong proofs." although knowing the querent, I can tell that this is true. The Moon is actually moving slowly at the horary moment (12deg49min/day is slow).

Click to expand...

.

Well I can explain this statement deeper:
We all know that the Moon reprezents the circumstances of the chart, it's the most important planet in horary, cause it shows clearly whats going on. Bieng in a cadent house ( 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th ), it means the planet is slow, which is an accidental detriment. 6th house it's reputated as bieng a material house, work and putting your ideas in the service of others. But 6th bieng a material house, it's not so spiritual, ideologic, it demands putting work toward practical things in life, not like 12th house that reprezents hidden and occult things that you believe even if they aren't proven. Moon reprezents the circumstances, even if the answer to this question is YES cause Moon trine Jupiter, bieng in 6th house, bieng slow and material, meaning that around ( expecialy the querent ) is still skeptical and demands practical proofs that astrology truly is scientific.

Mars Jupiter in no aspects.
Moon JMercury in no apsect but Mercury is combust.
Outcome subjective.

Hi, I just start to learn Horary and find this post really interesting. the significator of the querent, Jupiter is in his house and in his sign conjonct Antares, strong fixed star, i think this person is already convinced of the divinity of astrology without even posing the question. Astrology is represented by the 11th house, so significator Saturn is in 6th, cadent and retrograde, this shows that there is difficulty in the "conscious" acceptation of this idea, there are doubts, but not necessarily from him, rather from the doubts of his environments--- He maybe needs to be shown further scientific proofs for example. Jupiter is applying trine Saturn, this shows that this person is ready and will soon be totally convinced after posing this question. I just wonder the Mars conjunction of MC does it signify something special in such analysis? best, Themis

Well, I just asked again and she says she's not skeptical at all nor looks for scientific proofs (she's a true believer, in a true Piscean style). The question just occurred to her and it seemed like a proper horary moment so she noted the time and then passed it to me for interpretation.
The 6th house Moon must have some explanation, as the Moon is known to shown where the real interest of the querent lays - in this case it's the 6th house matters > the querent was probably performing some routine daily activities when was struck by this question (which she couldn't relate to some previous event, this is why I mentioned in the first post that the question wasn't prompted by any event).

Andonis - there is no need to turn the chart as the question is not related to another person.

Themis - astrology as a field of knowledge is a 9th house matter; the 11th stands for groups of people, for hopes and wishes; the confusion comes from the analogy with the 11th zodiacal sign, whose ruler, Uranus, is considered the modern ruler of the astrology, considered as a unique communication gate to the gods; however, the analogy doesn't go very far and houses keep different meanings than the corresponding signs.

Also, interesting observations on Jupiter conjunct Antares (a Martian fixed star, but as it also is known for " sudden incidents, unforeseen events and potential accidents" it also seems to have a Uranian flavour). Also Mars culminating is an interesting point. I'm not sure what it means, but Mars is a secondary 1st house ruler as Aries is intercepted in the 1st house.

Radu said:

Themis - astrology as a field of knowledge is a 9th house matter; the 11th stands for groups of people, for hopes and wishes; the confusion comes from the analogy with the 11th zodiacal sign, whose ruler, Uranus, is considered the modern ruler of the astrology, considered as a unique communication gate to the gods; however, the analogy doesn't go very far and houses keep different meanings than the corresponding signs.

Click to expand...

Radu, thanks for pointing this out! I am ashamed for this confusion . in fact i had difficulty in understanding certain things when i studied the traditional astrology. Among many other, here I will raise the first question not to burden the threads, but if you don't see it or can't answer it, i will try to put up a thread later: which house is the house signifying astrologers? also the 9th? i read endlessly in CA or other works that astrologers were referred as "artists". astrology is an art, so we use 7th to refer to astrologer if astrologer is not the querent, i am understanding it right? thanks.

Radu said:

but Mars is a secondary 1st house ruler as Aries is intercepted in the 1st house.

Click to expand...

Yeah, the ruler of intercepted sign culminating, I need to continue to study...

What about the outcome?should we all better look for mercury ruler of the 4th?
Mercury duplicates in 3rd house also for communications...and stays in 11th for masses, visions,hopes and people, close to the SUN in order to enlight tangible issues. In Capricorn brings an authoritative air and a traditional role ...
There's a bit of a doubting Thomas in Mercury in Capricorn. Many squint often--not due to poor eyesight, but because their first reaction to information is skepticism!
With Mercury in Capricorn, natives have a strong need to compartmentalize the impressions they get from the world. These people often speak and write in a slow and methodical manner. They appreciate structure and order. Although they are resourceful people, Mercury in Capricorn natives easily get frustrated when too much information is thrown at them at once. They break down ideas into manageable parts before arriving at a decision.
Usually quite mentally active, these natives are generally productive people who prefer taking on projects that will yield tangible and practical results.....
My opinion is that the chart with MERCURY -ruler of outcome-is describing what is astrology in general and also... in our times many modern astrologers (Uranus in 1st) make bad impression of the wisdom that astrology holds in itself (Jupiter in 9th).Some misleading is pointed out there in that aspect.The chart says that it is divine, or divine focused, asc and 9th the same.
when mercury forms the sextile with the carmic nodes what could mean?...it may mean the quiding for some of us, the searching for our real destiny that happens from some Uranian types..!?
and with much fantasy....I would add that astrology's mission (from the 10th) is to point the chaotic(Pluto) space in order to generate positive change (Mars conj. Pluto in SAGGI trine with Saturn)..
I am new in horary..just an attempt to answer the test.

In agreement with Thorwald Dethlefsen German Psychologist: "Continuing to the spirit of the time there is more and more astrologers that try to separate the astrology of their occult origin and to adapt it, pass to step, to the style of reasoning functional scientific. It was expected that with such to proceed it was recognized by the official science. Because of this process the astrologer has demeaned the original astrology to a pure technique.

The astrology would originate it is typically an occult discipline in its internal structure and its way of thinking.

The sextil that Venus is applying Jupiter from the 12 house is very significant: exactly the astrology is an art (Venus) divine (Venus in Aquarius) that is related with the occult thing.

Mars is the consultant's co-ruler, it is the ruler of the 8th house (cuspid in Scorpio). Scorpio is also related with the occult thing and some astrologers say that this house is the house of the astrology. It is interesting to observe that Uranus is exalted in Scorpio. In the tarot the card zero, calls you "The Fool”, that represents to the Planet Uranus, it is the divinity, it is the Super-consciousness. The dog represents to the intellect, to the science, but its ha a master (lord): This means that the astrology is super-science, that humanizes more than it materializes. The Astrology is above all the sciences, but people make fun of the astrology. For such a reason it is said that the wisdom of GOD (the astrology) it is dementia for the men. Remember: Key "0" its call himself the Fool.

DOG = divinity: G. O. D = Turn the animal

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