Astrology and Narcissism

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
Trump has Leo Rising; Sun, Uranus, and NN conjunct in 10th House.

Hillary is just–forget her.

I think Trump is an excellent natal chart to examine for this thread. What does his chart look like and how might it relate to the concept of narcissism?

In general, which planets, signs, houses might be markers for narcissism, and does Trump have any of those markers?

And I agree Trump is going to be a much easier study, he is transparent in terms of his psyche, for good or bad.

Hillary is much more complex and submerged (Scorpionic) and would probably be a more comlicated study.

Julia
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
donald-trump-birth-chart.jpg


Well here's his chart.

The Sun, NN and Uranus conjunction in the 10th definitely leads to the narcissistic end. Sun is ruler of Leo, and Uranus is ruler of Aquarius; which are the rulers of the signs with the biggest egos.

Saturn conjunct Venus. That points to HUGE self-esteem is issues. Venus is often associated with our self perception. Saturn definitely makes Donald feel like he lacks this love in his life, which to me, DEFINITELY points to narcissism. Narcissists are like those people that need constant attention and love just so that they don't feel empty as people.

Often you'll find Saturn Venus type people in beauty pageants and always telling themselves that they're never beautiful enough.

Then you got his Mars and Rising conjunct Regulus. Huge kingly qualities manifested there.

My dad has Leo Rising and Saturn conjunct Venus and oh. my. god. He needs constant reassurance for literally everything.

Sun trine Jupiter leads to an over inflated ego, but since it's trine it's not that bad I guess. But usually Sun Jupiter people display an over-confidence.
 

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
donald-trump-birth-chart.jpg


Well here's his chart.

The Sun, NN and Uranus conjunction in the 10th definitely leads to the narcissistic end. Sun is ruler of Leo, and Uranus is ruler of Aquarius; which are the rulers of the signs with the biggest egos.

Saturn conjunct Venus. That points to HUGE self-esteem is issues. Venus is often associated with our self perception. Saturn definitely makes Donald feel like he lacks this love in his life, which to me, DEFINITELY points to narcissism. Narcissists are like those people that need constant attention and love just so that they don't feel empty as people.

Often you'll find Saturn Venus type people in beauty pageants and always telling themselves that they're never beautiful enough.

Then you got his Mars and Rising conjunct Regulus. Huge kingly qualities manifested there.

My dad has Leo Rising and Saturn conjunct Venus and oh. my. god. He needs constant reassurance for literally everything.

Sun trine Jupiter leads to an over inflated ego, but since it's trine it's not that bad I guess. But usually Sun Jupiter people display an over-confidence.

Appleo:

Thanks for posting Trump's chart.
Your comments are right on.

My read of it, along the same lines:

Trump’s natal chart and Narcissism

Leo Asc, chart ruler is the Sun. The chart has a self, ego, pride, dominance vibe.

A positive Leo Asc can be powerful, authoritative, and heart-centered. Negatively expressed can be autocratic, dominant, self-centered and intolerant.

Gemini Sun can indicate a versatile and productive mind. It can also manifest as someone who changes stories without even noticing; truth is a relative concept. Facts may be seen as inconvenient. Can persuade others easily. This ability to manipulate others may lead to sense of superiority.

The Sun/Uranus conjunction can show genius, idealism, but in an unusual and unconventional way. Can make for a misdirected genius or eccentric loner. Negatively expressed can be willful, disruptive, chaotic.

Sun conjunct the North Node can give impetus to develop the positive energies of the Sun sign for the purpose of soul growth. Negatively expressed would be a less constructive, ego driven side of the Sun sign.

Yes the Venus/Saturn can give a deeply held subconscious belief that he is not worthy of love.
And yes would result in someone who craves admiration and adoration from others. Can be mean spirited when criticized, as the ego is fairly fragile. A Cancer Venus can be possessive and needy.

Mars in Leo is quick tempered, proud, self confident and arrogant. Wants to be top dog and is attracted to power.

Julia
 

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
From a Karmic Astrology standpoint, Trump has some interesting placements which may have some bearing on the narcissism issue.

Trump has Neptune and Jupiter in the 2h.
2h is the karmic gift house. These are resources and abilities to help with the current incarnation, and seen as assets. This would have been brought forward due to past life good works, or because of some special life mission. Neptune in the 2h confers psychic ability, intuition, imagination. This placement also gives glamor and an ability to bewitch others. It can be difficult to pin down, Neptune has an elusive quality. Without a moral core this placement can be misused and lead to arrogance.

Now the 2h Jupiter is quite interesting. This is the best of all possible placements for Jupiter from a karmic standpoint. This confers an ability to manifest what is wanted. This person would have the ability to visualize something and make it happen. This would make for what others see as a very lucky person. Certainly this gift could give rise to some arrogance, and a lack of humility. It should also be noted that this placement can be a major handicap, along the lines of "be careful what you ask for." Without integrity or heart centeredness, this placement can go awry.

2h Jup trine 10h Gem Sun/Ura/NN is showing us that this gift was to be used for soul purpose in this life. The Sag SN acquired knowledge and principals in past lives, in this life the Gem NN is to communicate those values, and bring them into the real world.

Julia
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
His Jupiter conjunct chiron in the 2nd points to his 4 bankruptcies I think. His Neptune definitely influences his Mecury Cancer. He speaks from the heart, but probably lies and tells people what they want to hear instead of the truth.
 

thelivingsky

Well-known member
I agree with many of the posters here about these aspects that can make one prone to NPD. But it takes more than one aspect, usually multiple aspects.

Sun or Moon conjunct Pluto or Neptune.
The luminaries so close to Pluto seems to overtake or drown out other aspects. Moon Pluto conjunct makes for very strong emotions which if the person has not been well taught in childhood how to handle those feelings can lead to deep denial states. Then when they experience guilt the shame they feel is so intense they will repress it . Soon they learn to do this well and never feel any guilt or sense of responsibility? Some psychologists think this NPD and other personality disorders can happen if a child did not bond well or in a healthy way with early caregivers. Some think it happens as a result of much shaming or harsh punishment in childhood or conversely with too much permissiveness and indulgence.

Sun/Pluto creates a feeling of invincibility and/or entitlement.

Additionally,The Black Moon, Pluto and/or Orcus on the Moon or Moon's Node or square the Moon or Moon's Nodes. I have seen this again and again in the charts of serial killers.

A couple characteristics of true Narcissists is that they never or almost never say "I'm sorry." And they usually have no real friends only acquaintances which is is especially true as they get older. They see everything that is wrong or unpleasant in their lives as someone else's fault and therefore can never truly take responsibility. I believe this is because to do so would be to admit fault and that would trigger all that extremely repressed shame. The way I see them is that while they seem to have an inflated sense of self-esteem, actually this is only the conscious "self concept." Underneath this is a unconscious sense of inadequacy which is buried under an impenetrable wall of denial. There is a difference between "self-esteem" and "self-concept" The latter is our conscious view of ourselves which may or may not match the unconscious self esteem. That's why so many Narcissists have to boast and brag and always put on a image of superiority. A person with healthy self-esteem does not need to prove anything to anyone and does not to boast and brag and show off. One can never have "too much self-esteem." If it seems that someone has an inflated sense of self importance, is cocky or arrogant - these are actually "compensatory" behaviors or ego defense mechanisms to keep the ego from facing deep held feelings of inferiority or failure. Understanding compensation/compensatory behaviors and ego defense mechanisms is critical to understanding human psychology, and anyone attempting to practice astrology should study these concepts.
 
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Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
His Jupiter conjunct chiron in the 2nd points to his 4 bankruptcies I think. His Neptune definitely influences his Mecury Cancer. He speaks from the heart, but probably lies and tells people what they want to hear instead of the truth.

Excellent points, AppLeo

Yes, about the Jup/Chiron.
Damage to assets and "easy come, easy go."

And yes he is an emotional communicator, but his Gem Sun seems to take over.
Truth is a fluid concept, telling stories that people want to hear.
 

HarmonE

Well-known member
I agree with many of the posters here about these aspects that can make one prone to NPD. But it takes more than one aspect, usually multiple aspects.

A couple characteristics of true Narcissists is that they never or almost never say "I'm sorry." And they usually have no real friends only acquaintances which is is especially true as they get older. They see everything that is wrong or unpleasant in their lives as someone else's fault and therefore can never truly take responsibility. I believe this is because to do so would be to admit fault and that would trigger all that extremely repressed shame. The way I see them is that while they seem to have an inflated sense of self-esteem, actually this is only the conscious "self concept." Underneath this is a unconscious sense of inadequacy which is buried under an impenetrable wall of denial. There is a difference between "self-esteem" and "self-concept" The latter is our conscious view of ourselves which may or may not match the unconscious self esteem. That's why so many Narcissists have to boast and brag and always put on a image of superiority. A person with healthy self-esteem does not need to prove anything to anyone and does not to boast and brag and show off. One can never have "too much self-esteem." If it seems that someone has an inflated sense of self importance, is cocky or arrogant - these are actually "compensatory" behaviors or ego defense mechanisms to keep the ego from facing deep held feelings of inferiority or failure. Understanding compensation/compensatory behaviors and ego defense mechanisms is critical to understanding human psychology, and anyone attempting to practice astrology should study these concepts.

I agree whole-heatedly with all of this as it has been my experience. And having read some books on NBD to try to understand my brother I have come to a similar conclusion. I heard it described that narcissists actually don't feel a sense of completeness in themselves, they are in essence a shell. The mask that we see that seems to be so over-inflated and grandiose, is actually all that they have. They don't have a normal relationship with themselves or a sense of feeling whole and worthy. They can only get that from their supposed identity.
 

Quirk

New member
I'll guarantee there's already a thread on this, but I'm too lazy to look through all of them.

What chart aspects or placements lead to narcissism? I've become fascinated with narcissism and I've done a little research and heres what I've got.

General Narcissistic Traits--

Magical Thinking
Arrogance
Envy
Entitlement
Exploitation
Lack Boundaries
Shame-based personaltiy
Rejection of the Real Self in exchange for a beholded false self
Narcissistic Supply - Attention, adulation, affection, praise, etc... (Self-esteem regulation)


Heres some placement ideas for Narcissism

Narcissus (37117)
You can tell by the name..Basically if this astroid touches something personal in your chart, or something personal in another persons chart, then you'll be narcissistic.

Echo (60)
Echo represents giving yourself away to others. Your personality is "echoed" in another person. Echo shows narcissism because she is essentially rejecting her real self by craving affection and love from another person to feed her false self.
So if echo touches something personal, could also be narcissistic, but an inverted narcissism

Zodiac Signs
I don't think zodiac signs determine if someone is narcissistic really, but it's something to think about.

Aquarius - Sun in the 11th
detachment
associated with the god complex ("I'm above all or special")
genius or intelligent - triggers the "above all"
opposite of Leo, an outward friendship rather than inner. Focusing on your outer world means you don't have to get deep or in intimacy; easy narcissistic supply, especially by doing charity or performing in large groups and organizations

Libra - Sun in the 7th
similar to echo... Libra seems to be a little fake--shaping themselves just so they can be liked or have friendships--rejecting the true self

Strong Leo Placements (for obvious reasons)

Aspects
North Node conjunct Sun
North node is agressive and wants to take shortcuts
The north node is destiny and isn't achieved until later, so the person could develop narcissism I guess

VENUS-PLUTO
This aspect seems to be the most influencial in determining narcissism. Usually narcissist aren't found unless you are in a relationship with one
Venus is about relationships of course and when aspect by pluto it triggers insecurities and or a sense of rejection either in yourself or in relationships bringing our defense mechanisms such as narcissism.

I've seen Venus Pluto and Pluto in general come up a bit
In a personal relationship where I accused someone of being a narcissist we had this as an EXACT negative aspect

And astrologers with these websites have claimed so that pluto or venus/pluto mean narcissism

These websites claim that Pluto has a huge influence regarding narcissism
http://www.thespiritualeclectic.com...ic-personality-disorder-written-in-the-stars/

http://www.elsaelsa.com/astrology/narcissism-self-rejection/

http://angstoic.com/2015/03/pluto-and-narcissism/


Lastly as my personal opinions
Neptune-Sun Aspect and Pluto-Sun or Moon

Narcissists are extremely delusional and lack boundaries. Similar to Neptune and Sun lacking boundaries and being aware of their ego.
This aspect has a lot to do with imagination and wanting to live the grander and more glamorized life. Like a narcissist and their fantasies

Pluto-Sun, Pluto-Moon triggers a need to be powerful and manipulative or in control because of some underlying fear, especially fear of intimacy


Those are just some ideas

Tell me what you think both objectively and biased!! Tell me personal stories of narcissists you know, or think you know are narcissists, and their charts
I am new to this community and I'm hoping that old threads never die. I've just recently ended a relationship with whom I believe to be a narcissist. I'm Im total agreement with the placement of sun/Aquarius and especially Pluto/Venus as markers of narcissistic disorder.My recent Ex. has Aquarius Sun with Venus opposite pluto.an aspect of trauma in relationships.
Libra on the other hand is a classical Codependent which is the opposite of a Narcis.If you read Ross Rosenberg book THE HUMAN MAGNET SYNDROME the traits of Libra are totally that of a codependent person. I am a recovering codependent with Sun/venus Libra. I thi k it It comes down a continuum that we all ride. While the natal chart might show strong tendencies in one direction those may be mitigated but a complenary force. It's important to understand the chart as a whole and similar to understand Narcissistic Personality Disorder as part of a continuum that we all ride.
Cheers
 

david starling

Well-known member
Old threads are frequently revived. Sometimes the original poster (OP) is no longer even active, but new interest occurs.

My favorite Narcissist line is about a guy who's been talking incessantly about himself on a first date. He then says "Well, that's enough about ME. So, what do YOU think of me?" :lol:
 

Luney

Well-known member
My Ex turned out to be total Narcisse.. although I didn't see it at first. I thought he had good self confidence.. then later on through the years.. I started feeling worthless to his almighty pedestal.
Libra Sun /Leo Moon .Possible Gemini Ascendant.
I kicked him out after 9 years.. and he married some random pub chick 4 months later. Maybe I hurt his ego. But he destroyed mine.
I swear, He thinks he is God himself.
(Sorry if there's anyone with this placement that cant agree), of course there's more to the whole chart) . But this Guy, got barred from churches he built.. For wanting to be loud and popular in the lime light .(he was a total embarrassment).
Everything I loved, he took away, threw away, burnt, whipper snipped..you name it.. I felt like I was so worthless.. it takes years to recover from a narcissistic relationship.
 

AppLeo

Well-known member
I am new to this community and I'm hoping that old threads never die. I've just recently ended a relationship with whom I believe to be a narcissist. I'm Im total agreement with the placement of sun/Aquarius and especially Pluto/Venus as markers of narcissistic disorder.My recent Ex. has Aquarius Sun with Venus opposite pluto.an aspect of trauma in relationships.
Libra on the other hand is a classical Codependent which is the opposite of a Narcis.If you read Ross Rosenberg book THE HUMAN MAGNET SYNDROME the traits of Libra are totally that of a codependent person. I am a recovering codependent with Sun/venus Libra. I thi k it It comes down a continuum that we all ride. While the natal chart might show strong tendencies in one direction those may be mitigated but a complenary force. It's important to understand the chart as a whole and similar to understand Narcissistic Personality Disorder as part of a continuum that we all ride.
Cheers

Good luck in the future.

Breaking up with a narcissist and rebuilding your life all over again is incredibly difficult. You have my sympathies.

It is quite liberating and free though.
 

Night Sky

Well-known member
i agree with what you say.

also i would like to add sun-jupiter hard aspects as they expand your ego, which can make for a very narcisstic personality. whats the difference between mars/pluto and venus/pluto? wouldnt they have a somewhat similar effect?

I'm not sure what qualifies as "Narcissist".

However I know the traits that annoy me most which are related to the topic of self-importance, excessive self-love. The problems with these traits is that the person doesn't love anyone except them self and is quite happy to betray at a moment's notice, family or friends, if they do not serve some end.

Aspects which I have seen in a natal chart of someone that exhibits some of these traits:

South Node in the 1st. (Also possibly Pluto rising)

I think both of these are capable individually of making a person selfish or self obsessed. The SN in the 1st denotes a person that has been self-centred in past lives and needs to focus on others' needs in this life. NN in the 7th. Pluto rising perhaps, emphasises immoral attitude towards gaining power, though maybe it is the SN position which is most suspect in this trait.

Venus square ASC, or Venus emphasised.

Venus makes a person attractive and likeable, but overdo this and you end up with someone who takes selfies all the time, always paying attention to their looks and has high estimation based on looks. So this is obviously the negative side of Venus. Beauty is the cherry on the cake, if you only have a cherry and no cake, you get shallow rubbish. Words suggest things, in the same way as images suggest things, but neither are the actual thing.

Last but not least: Jupiter square Sun.

Sun is the personal ego. The downside is pride, the upside is the joy that gives life its zest. So a person with Sun square Jupiter will have their ego (Sun) blown out of proportion (Jupiter).

I am not sure it is strictly narcissism that this aspect describes. But it sure as hell is annoying. It merely describes a big ego that is arrogant and of course over blows its own achievements or potential. It is the opposite of modesty.

I am wondering perhaps a little about Uranus. This planet heightens the self-awareness. I'm open to opinion on this one, but I would like to add it as a suggestion.
 

thelivingsky

Well-known member
Night Sky:
I have 3 of the positions you list as possible markers for narcissism. My Pluto is in H1 just 7 degrees from my Ascendant. My Sun squares Jupiter and my Venus squares my Ascendant. Yet, I am a person who has battled my lack of confidence most of my life. I have struggled to feel competent or worthy, and until I was in my 50's had difficulty doing things such as asking for a raise or charging a high fee for my services. I have never felt that I was very attractive physically and felt that I would never be able to attract a partner who did not have some serious issues so often became involved with men who were addicts or narcissists themselves. I feel guilt and shame often which according to psychologists are emotions narcissist do not feel. I am capable of saying "I am sorry" which is something narcissists cannot do. I do not like being the center of attention, being on-stage or in the limelight.

My ex husband who probably is a narcissist has Moon conjunct Pluto in Leo and a t-square of Sun, Saturn and Uranus. Also his Sun and ruler is in Capricorn all of which I think contribute to selfishness which to me is an underlying motive in the narcissistic person along with a very deep and unconscious feeling of inadequacy and self-loathing. After studying psychology and what experts say about what pathological narcissism is, I think that the narcissist's outer behavior that seems like too much self-esteem is actually a compensatory defense mechanism of the ego - an ego that is actually very fragile and needy but the conscious mind cannot face this reality/these feelings because it is so painful that it is repressed. Likewise after learning to repress their painful feelings of low-self esteem, they then repress their feelings of guilt about how they hurt others.

There seems to be very little awareness of how the psyche works these days. We all engage in psychological defense mechanisms at times yet the culture does not seem to teach about these unconscious ego tricks. Things such as denial, repression, projection etc all operate unconsciously unless we strive to become aware of our habits with them. IMO, and many agree with me, that to grow emotionally and spiritually it is necessary to identify and undo these ego defenses.

It is important to understand that a person's conscious self-concept is not always congruent with his unconscious self esteem. One can have a very low self-esteem which is repressed and compensate for that by adopting a conscious self -concept that allows him to believe he is wonderful. Then he doesn't have to face and deal with the very painful inner feelings of inadequacy or self-loathing. Self-loathing is perhaps the most unpleasant human emotion along with grief over the loss of a loved one or complete humiliation. It is no wonder that people often repress it.

A favorite teacher/guru of mine is the late David R. Hawkins who said ( I am paraphrasing) "If you want to overcome your ego it pays to understand the ego's tricks." He is referring to the defense mechanisms of the ego of which there are about 10 that have been identified. Freud was the first to catalog a list of these. I am sure you can find a list easily.

I studied the charts of serial killers since these are people who clearly have no guilt about murder. I thought this would be a good exercise to attempt to identify narcissistic tendencies. I found many links of the Moon with Pluto, Orcus, Mars and the Nodes. Perhaps narcissists who were not violent but relied of charm and deceit may not have the Mars or Orcus contacts. Maybe Venus and Neptune instead? But ultimately I don't think you can determine pathological narcissism from a natal chart.

We have president here in the US that many people are certain is a narcissist. He does not have any of the chart features you listed. His Sun is trine Jupiter, his Pluto is in H12 and his Venus is 30 degrees from his Ascendant.

That's my 10 cents worth,
Barb at thelivingsky.wordpress.com
 

Night Sky

Well-known member
Night Sky:
I have 3 of the positions you list as possible markers for narcissism. My Pluto is in H1 just 7 degrees from my Ascendant. My Sun squares Jupiter and my Venus squares my Ascendant. Yet, I am a person who has battled my lack of confidence most of my life. I have struggled to feel competent or worthy, and until I was in my 50's had difficulty doing things such as asking for a raise or charging a high fee for my services. I have never felt that I was very attractive physically and felt that I would never be able to attract a partner who did not have some serious issues so often became involved with men who were addicts or narcissists themselves. I feel guilt and shame often which according to psychologists are emotions narcissist do not feel. I am capable of saying "I am sorry" which is something narcissists cannot do. I do not like being the center of attention, being on-stage or in the limelight.

My ex husband who probably is a narcissist has Moon conjunct Pluto in Leo and a t-square of Sun, Saturn and Uranus. Also his Sun and ruler is in Capricorn all of which I think contribute to selfishness which to me is an underlying motive in the narcissistic person along with a very deep and unconscious feeling of inadequacy and self-loathing. After studying psychology and what experts say about what pathological narcissism is, I think that the narcissist's outer behavior that seems like too much self-esteem is actually a compensatory defense mechanism of the ego - an ego that is actually very fragile and needy but the conscious mind cannot face this reality/these feelings because it is so painful that it is repressed. Likewise after learning to repress their painful feelings of low-self esteem, they then repress their feelings of guilt about how they hurt others.

There seems to be very little awareness of how the psyche works these days. We all engage in psychological defense mechanisms at times yet the culture does not seem to teach about these unconscious ego tricks. Things such as denial, repression, projection etc all operate unconsciously unless we strive to become aware of our habits with them. IMO, and many agree with me, that to grow emotionally and spiritually it is necessary to identify and undo these ego defenses.

It is important to understand that a person's conscious self-concept is not always congruent with his unconscious self esteem. One can have a very low self-esteem which is repressed and compensate for that by adopting a conscious self -concept that allows him to believe he is wonderful. Then he doesn't have to face and deal with the very painful inner feelings of inadequacy or self-loathing. Self-loathing is perhaps the most unpleasant human emotion along with grief over the loss of a loved one or complete humiliation. It is no wonder that people often repress it.

A favorite teacher/guru of mine is the late David R. Hawkins who said ( I am paraphrasing) "If you want to overcome your ego it pays to understand the ego's tricks." He is referring to the defense mechanisms of the ego of which there are about 10 that have been identified. Freud was the first to catalog a list of these. I am sure you can find a list easily.

I studied the charts of serial killers since these are people who clearly have no guilt about murder. I thought this would be a good exercise to attempt to identify narcissistic tendencies. I found many links of the Moon with Pluto, Orcus, Mars and the Nodes. Perhaps narcissists who were not violent but relied of charm and deceit may not have the Mars or Orcus contacts. Maybe Venus and Neptune instead? But ultimately I don't think you can determine pathological narcissism from a natal chart.

We have president here in the US that many people are certain is a narcissist. He does not have any of the chart features you listed. His Sun is trine Jupiter, his Pluto is in H12 and his Venus is 30 degrees from his Ascendant.

That's my 10 cents worth,
Barb at thelivingsky.wordpress.com


OK, I am sorry. I put those forward as suggestions. You've got some good points. Jupiter Sun aspects have the potential to be arrogant, and Trump has Jupiter trine Sun, so that is why many people see him as "narcissist", when in fact he is just playing a game of projecting confidence and "leadership" in my opinion. No-one votes for people who are shy and retiring and depend on their academic achievements. Maybe that is an indictment of the current state of democracy, and then the people complain that their leaders are self-obsessed or stupid or whatever, whether left or right.

Naturally a person has the ability to choose his or her course in life and can decide any time whether to be humble or to take all the credit.


Something about the definition of "Narcissism" hasn't really been cleared in this thread to my mind and it's quite important.

Narcissism, in the myth it is Narcissus who falls in total obsession with his own image in the water.

I think modern "psychology" has a tendency to warp the purity of the traditional myths. So if we go with the original story, Narcissus was merely proud and ignored those who advised him. Looked in the water, became obsessed and died.

Taking the original myth, a true narcissist should therefore be a person who stays at home 100% of the time staring in the water and dies. Taking it literally a narcissist should not have any interest in other people only self and perhaps in reality shuns off all interaction, which is the case in the story.

There is a 12th house feel to it.

What people generally mean talking about a "narcissist" is not a true narcissist. But rather a selfish egoist, basically afflicted Sun, pride or self-aggrandisement which is not to my mind related to this traditional story.

I exhibit some of those qualities of wanting to stay at home. I am not in love with my image by any means. But I think it is more of an introvert. I completely throw out the modern definition, as I have already said.

In light of this, afflicted Venus is not Narcissus though it is associated with image, nor is afflicted Sun, though it is related to pride.

Pluto we know has the potential for obsession. So perhaps those comments in this thread talking about Pluto Venus may be close to the mark. An obsession with self-image or popularity.
 

Night Sky

Well-known member
I have some news for everyone.

I'm officially a narcissist.

I've gone with the asteroid 37117 and put it in to the chart, to see the truth. So, my natal:

Narcissus 27 Leo, square my
25 Scorpio Sun and trine my
25 Aries Moon.

I am going strictly on the position of asteroid 37117 a 100% pure narcissist. A 2 degrees orb is pretty strong for both Sun and Moon. Narcissus is in my 11th house, fairly close to the 12th cusp.


So as a pure narcissist. What can I tell you all?

Reading the traditional story on theoi, there is a lot of information.

http://www.theoi.com/Heros/Narkissos.html


How do I relate to it?

So, going on theoi mythology website, to me Narcissus relates mostly to themes of rejection, which I can relate to. It is tricky because Saturn has domain over rejection stories too.

Well, since Narcissus is square my Sun, maybe I am the one who fell in love with the Narcissus type in girls. I fell in love with quite a lot of women who were quite self-obsessed. I don't think I ever really rejected anyone, perhaps once out of a misunderstanding, which could have worked out differently if she had been clearer about what she wanted.

It's rather a sad myth. But I will try to be honest here. A lot of women I fell for were very beautiful, I do feel like I've been rejected a lot more than my natal Saturn should suggest.

Perhaps a number of them were looking for something in themselves. Since I have Narcissus trine Moon it is a theme for women in my life, but then the Sun square should be even worse. I would not say I am obsessed with my image at all, some days I've had people tell me "you've grown a beard" and I touch my chin and "what do you know, so I have". I tend not to look in the mirror at all really. In fact I abhor being in photographs for the most part I hate my own image. (Perhaps because it is the square?)

Perhaps it is more of a Pluto type of theme. A quest to find out the true self or identity. It is said in the myth that he didn't feel love. So, how can it be self-love. There is something else more like looking into the abyss.

If I exhibit true Narcissus theme I am afraid I will demand a total redefinition of the meaning of "narcissism".

It's introversion.
It's total rejection of the lime light.
Rejection of all social interaction.
Rejection of egoistic attention seeking.

Rejection of everything really, the myth tells of a rather tragic 12th house sort of ending. The people who are being called narcissist based on the current meaning can be called egoists, or attention seekers, or braggers, or self-aggrandizes.

If you want to go on the position of the asteroid and my tight chart positions as any evidence, then I would have to go with saying that you won't find a true Narcissus at a party. It's total introversion and sense of rejection and searching for meaning.
 
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mida

New member
Here's a chart of a guy who seems to be a prime leader in the study of narcissism and he is a narcissist himself!!! His name is Sam Vaknin.

ZF4jZmb5L1OKoaOTnmplMUDjZQNjZQNjZQNj.png


Two things...

He has Sun square Jupiter

His Sun is on the Aries and Taurus cusp. This doesn't necessarily mean narcissism, but I know that Hitler had an Aries Taurus cusp and I know two other people who had the Aries Taurus cusp that seem very narcissistic.

I have to say this haha when I saw this birth chart some things jumped out to me which look very much like what I have in my chart but I'm not a narcissist, in fact I've dated one. So his moon and ascendant are conjunct in the same degree which I also have, only my moon and ascendant are in pisces. Also he has mercury and venus very close to each other in the 10th house plus lilith in leo which I also have. But obviously these don't indicate a narcissist I think it can better be seen through planet aspects. And also someone said a lot of neptune influence and someone said about lilith in leo, but I don't think so at least not alone because obviously then everybody with lilith in leo could be a narcissist. It's just the dark side of this lilith sign which all lilith signs have their own.
 
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