We forget so that others can remind us, and so we can learn how to remind others who have forgotten as well. If we see something that doesn't know, it gives us reason to speak to them- to call out and proclaim what we are. If everything knew where they came from, then they'd know where they were going, and so, there may not be any movement at all to anything, no reason to say anything.
Why do we forget our past lives?
- Thread starter Moog
- Start date
I totally agree with JupiterAsc.
When I see this
Sunny
When I see this
I only understand this by a christian point of view. The problem with the forgetting is for me that you'll not have any chance to rectify your errors or even to understand why you did them. In this way you are the one who suffer your past life, not this one who'll advance in the better way. And also, if you remember some aspects of your past life by experiencing events in your actual existence, then you can know that you're paying your debt and that it is paid.
Sunny
retinoid
Well-known member
i think it is a mistake to think our soul's time or what not is the same as our mind/psychological perception of time. we are purely making a construct of reincarnation based on our MIND's perception of what time is, which is false time. Since time doesn't truly exist (outside of things that change like our bodies or physical objects), it may be that our soul experiences all lives as one life. Our mind, however, experiences this life as a separate life from all of our other lives.
Why doesn't our mind remember? Because it either 1) doesn't operate on the level to experience all our lives like the soul. 2) is deluded. 3) has forgotten. I don't think someone deliberately prevents us from knowing. But it may not be worthwhile to even know.
Why doesn't our mind remember? Because it either 1) doesn't operate on the level to experience all our lives like the soul. 2) is deluded. 3) has forgotten. I don't think someone deliberately prevents us from knowing. But it may not be worthwhile to even know.
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Bina
Well-known member
I totally agree with JupiterAsc.
When I see this "that forgetting is universal compassion - an act of divine grace"
I only understand this by a christian point of view. The problem with the forgetting is for me that you'll not have any chance to rectify your errors or even to understand why you did them. In this way you are the one who suffer your past life, not this one who'll advance in the better way. And also, if you remember some aspects of your past life by experiencing events in your actual existence, then you can know that you're paying your debt and that it is paid.
Sunny
Hi Sunny,
my concept of "The Divine" is much broader than Christianity!! All religions and many philosophies speak about God and the Divine in one way or another. You can also call it Love or Universal Consciousness, Higher Power, etc. IMO this is at the core of all of us and everything in existence - I don't expect everybody to agree with this, but it works for me.
Besides Christianity doesn't include reincarnation in it's belief system.
If you read further in my previous post, I also explain that IMO the soul does remember and integrate the lessons learned on a higher level, you just don't need to recall all the details consciously. I don't think you just keep on making the same mistakes just because you don't remember your past lives. I think your soul automatically draws you to the experiences which give you a chance to rectify your past mistakes, whether you are aware of this or not -this is what is meant by the Law of Karma. Understanding of this process may also happen on a soul level.
Further I wrote that when you need to and when you are ready you may remember things about your past lives relevant to you.
Just generally my feeling is that it'd would be too painful to remember all of your past lives with all the details, therefore the memories are not there on a conscious level, the grace is that you have forgotten, so you don't have to suffer all the pain again.
Hope this further clarifies my previous post!
Bina
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Inline
Well-known member
I think there is a real reason we do not remember or better said, we forget, our past lives and it is a blessing in disguise.
It's so that that we can restart each new time with a clean slate. And for those souls that do remember parts and pieces of their past from which they can later then build on - this is also a path toward our betterment
In another thread where a similar question was asked, there was a discussion about a film of an extremely, intelligent woman who was not able to forget a single memory from her entire life. She was fighting with her sister whom she now hated, because she wasn't able to forget any of the slights and fights they'd had while they were growing up. Her memories kept coming back and she was unable to forget and ultimately, forgive her sister. She ended up alone, depressed and miserable.
There is a real benefit to our well being when we are not able to remember painful experiences, because it allows us another opportunity at dealing with the problem again, without predjudice and maybe this time with more success.
It's so that that we can restart each new time with a clean slate. And for those souls that do remember parts and pieces of their past from which they can later then build on - this is also a path toward our betterment
In another thread where a similar question was asked, there was a discussion about a film of an extremely, intelligent woman who was not able to forget a single memory from her entire life. She was fighting with her sister whom she now hated, because she wasn't able to forget any of the slights and fights they'd had while they were growing up. Her memories kept coming back and she was unable to forget and ultimately, forgive her sister. She ended up alone, depressed and miserable.
There is a real benefit to our well being when we are not able to remember painful experiences, because it allows us another opportunity at dealing with the problem again, without predjudice and maybe this time with more success.
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Oh, dear Bina, I am so sorry but it was'nt my intention to atack or to wound you. I understand very well what you mean, an many people will certainly agree with your idea that forgotten things are no more painful things. And to avoid suffering is also very legitimate. But let me say just two things:
1) the notion of grace is mainly a concept of christianism. And in my opinion it isn't a bad nor better notion than in others religions. Regarding the memory of past life which will say that our life in this existenxe is already a reincarnation, I am very estonished that Christians forget the message of Easter where they get the lesson of resurrection.
On the other side, the Ancient believed in the reincarnations and some had also memory of their past lifes.
2) As you refer to psychology, consciouness and so on, then I want only to remember, that in that speciality we know that the forgotten things (events) are always present by repression.
The buddhists think that these are translated in our tendancies, and that are exactly these ones which we are taking with us in our future lifes. Therefore a baby just born isn't neutral at all, so to speak in this perspective.
So, dear Bina, gorgive me for my clumsiness.
Sunny
And to avoid suffering is also very legitimate. But let me say just two things:1) the notion of grace is mainly a concept of christianism. And in my opinion it isn't a bad nor better notion than in others religions. Regarding the memory of past life which will say that our life in this existenxe is already a reincarnation, I am very estonished that Christians forget the message of Easter where they get the lesson of resurrection.
On the other side, the Ancient believed in the reincarnations and some had also memory of their past lifes.
2) As you refer to psychology, consciouness and so on, then I want only to remember, that in that speciality we know that the forgotten things (events) are always present by repression.
The buddhists think that these are translated in our tendancies, and that are exactly these ones which we are taking with us in our future lifes. Therefore a baby just born isn't neutral at all, so to speak in this perspective.
So, dear Bina, gorgive me for my clumsiness.
Sunny
I agree with this.
If you look at what is the case with how all things work right now, you can begin to see the most likely case with death in the moments outside of now- in a place that has no sense of progress or time or anything.
Something that doesn't require anything must be actually everything united in absence. It would both know nothing and in doing so flow between/through anything and thus know everything at the same moment, and in this process become something unimaginable because it has no point of focus like how we understand reality from our limited perspective.
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
that's declining personal responsibility by implying that e.g. 'it's not my fault'
aka 'It's all god's plan'
aka 'it's nothing to do with me'
aka 'who me?'
From my own personal observation.....The problem with the forgetting is for me that you'll not have any chance to rectify your errors or even to understand why you did them. In this way you are the one who suffer your past life, not this one who'll advance in the better way. And also, if you remember some aspects of your past life by experiencing events in your actual existence, then you can know that you're paying your debt and that it is paid.
I have noticed that even in our current lifetimes,
when asked at random, few people are able to recall the events of any one particular day that occurred as recently as just a month ago
UNLESS something momentous occurred!
AND EVEN IF some momentous event was experienced on that particular day last month,
most people are unable to recall the ENTIRE day in any significant detail and frequently get the sequence of events muddled.
Ask most people what they were doing three days ago at some specific time
most would have to think for a while before recalling VAGUELY where they were
and what they were doing and frequently correct themselves
as they realise they were actually elsewhere doing something other than they thought.
One of the reasons supporting the well known phrase “Time is a great Healer”
is simply the idea that - in general - memories fade as time passes
A person who has injured themselves by falling over while drunk
ALTHOUGH unable to remember exactly how they sustained that injury
NEVERTHELESS experiences the painful consequences of their drunken behavior/actions.
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
If one accepts that 'karmas' aka 'actions' lead to consequences then 'clean slates' are theoretical
Inline, forgiving a person ONLY because we simply cannot remember what they did is not forgiveness!
BECAUSE
if we cannot remember the bad stuff the person did to us,
then we are only being nice to them because we have a poor memory
– and that's easy!
forgiving someone EVEN IF we remember precisely the awful things that person did to us is the meaning of forgiveness.
Whereas, NOT forgiving someone because we can remember precisely the bad stuff that person did to us is “bearing a grudge”
and
is a dangerous state of mind
because it can lead to thoughts of “taking revenge”.
We may think we are 'entitled'
or
'justified'
to 'take revenge'
BUT
our thinking could be flawed!
the woman was unhappy NOT because she had a good memory
but because of her reaction to those memories.
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Bina
Well-known member
Sunny,
first of all it's ok, i don't feel hurt by what you wrote, just deeply misunderstood! And i still feel misunderstood!
I don't agree that the notion of grace is mainly a christian concept. I've spent a lot of time in India and it is very common among Indian people (Hindus) to talk about God's grace.
I know there is some references in the bible to reincarnation and past lives (even by Jesus), i just think that Christianity today does not want to accept and approve the idea of reincarnation.
Also i don't believe that forgotten things are no longer painful or to avoid suffering at all cost. Even though you may have forgotten, the pain is still there (but it is a bit like you are under the influence of a strong pain-killer or even an anesthetic, you don't feel it fully - which is what i call grace). You will only remember when you are ready to deal with it, just as often people completely forget their traumatic childhood experiences until such a time when the memories can be uncovered again and dealt with.
I agree that some of our tendencies in this life are the result of actions and experiences in prior lives (I have also studied some of the Buddhist philosophies, although i don't agree with all of it), but i still don't believe you have to remember all of your past lives to grow and learn in this one, i think if it was helpful to remember, we would and when it is helpful for our growth, we do remember what we need to know!
first of all it's ok, i don't feel hurt by what you wrote, just deeply misunderstood! And i still feel misunderstood!
I don't agree that the notion of grace is mainly a christian concept. I've spent a lot of time in India and it is very common among Indian people (Hindus) to talk about God's grace.
I know there is some references in the bible to reincarnation and past lives (even by Jesus), i just think that Christianity today does not want to accept and approve the idea of reincarnation.
Also i don't believe that forgotten things are no longer painful or to avoid suffering at all cost. Even though you may have forgotten, the pain is still there (but it is a bit like you are under the influence of a strong pain-killer or even an anesthetic, you don't feel it fully - which is what i call grace). You will only remember when you are ready to deal with it, just as often people completely forget their traumatic childhood experiences until such a time when the memories can be uncovered again and dealt with.
I agree that some of our tendencies in this life are the result of actions and experiences in prior lives (I have also studied some of the Buddhist philosophies, although i don't agree with all of it), but i still don't believe you have to remember all of your past lives to grow and learn in this one, i think if it was helpful to remember, we would and when it is helpful for our growth, we do remember what we need to know!
Moog
Well-known member
I'm basically asking 'why is existence tricky, rather than easy', and in no way did I say anything about wanting to ditch responsibility for myself.
Another way to say it would be 'why is there so much suffering, rather than not so much'
JUPITERASC
Well-known member
Moog, so when you said:
given the theory that 'karmas' aka 'actions' are basically the causes of effects
THEN suffering exists for that reason
e.g. If a mango seed is planted then a mango tree will grow
– when the right conditions are in place.
If a grass seed is planted then grass will grow
– when the right conditions are in place..
you meant:
I'm no expert Moog,
given the theory that 'karmas' aka 'actions' are basically the causes of effects
THEN suffering exists for that reason
e.g. If a mango seed is planted then a mango tree will grow
– when the right conditions are in place.
If a grass seed is planted then grass will grow
– when the right conditions are in place..
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JUPITERASC
Well-known member
'the mechanism' is 'explained' in order to simplify finding an answer...
i.e. for example,
IF
- according to the theory -
'karmas' aka 'actions'
are just like 'seeds'
that 'grow' when the right conditions occur
THEN IF
- to keep it simple we then pretend that suffering and joy are seeds -
THEN just as ripened grass seeds or ripened mango seeds provide mangos and grass,
then SO
suffering and joy are experienced
when the seeds of suffering and joy meet the right conditions for ripening and 'ripen'
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tsmall
Premium Member
Well, what's the point of reincarnating? Evolution of the soul? Have you ever noticed that happy people don't change the world? Change only occurs, either personal or societal, when suffering happens.
Let's take the person who hates his job. Most of the time that person will not change jobs unless forced to do so by external circumstances, or unless he becomes "uncomfortable" enough to make the change, in other words the suffering has to outweigh the benefit. The degree of necessary suffering will change depending on the individual.
Let's take the person who hates his job. Most of the time that person will not change jobs unless forced to do so by external circumstances, or unless he becomes "uncomfortable" enough to make the change, in other words the suffering has to outweigh the benefit. The degree of necessary suffering will change depending on the individual.
To JupiterAsc:
That's the point, our memory, the wideness of our memory. Therefore some masters ask you: do you remember what was your first thinking when you woke up today? That's the same history.
To Bina:
I am very sorry that you feel misunderstood. But I really understand what you mean, but I am not with all in the same way as you. What you are saying about India, is very pleasant for me to hear because I love India very much. And it was my ignorance that the notion of grace isn't only widespread in the christian religion, sorry for that.
Yes, in a way, that is very true that once have to be prepared for the "news coming from his past". But if someone is only lazy he will never or not without some difficulties meet what he wants or doesn't want to know.
I think that the remembering of your past lives is independant from your good will, but depends mainly from the degree of your increased conscious, which enlarge your memory. And if you are studying the cases of people who remembered their past lives, it is always done by traumatism. There, I think, you cannot more talk of being in the right time because we need then this remembering. The cases are often and mostly very young children who remembered their death because they had suffered a violent death. That isn't the case for all of us. To return to this children, they remembered it nearly almost suddenly, without any preparations or need for their actual lifetime and even they aren't in the situation that they want to know everything about their past life.
Now, Bina, do you understand, what I mean and why I am answering this to your comment?
People in a certain age have very much difficulties to remember anything of this problem and need to purify their memory by several technics such as meditation. The great buddhist masters can do so, but for us ...? We can train it and hope that it will occur.
Sunny
That's the point, our memory, the wideness of our memory. Therefore some masters ask you: do you remember what was your first thinking when you woke up today? That's the same history.
To Bina:
I am very sorry that you feel misunderstood. But I really understand what you mean, but I am not with all in the same way as you. What you are saying about India, is very pleasant for me to hear because I love India very much. And it was my ignorance that the notion of grace isn't only widespread in the christian religion, sorry for that.
Yes, in a way, that is very true that once have to be prepared for the "news coming from his past"
. But if someone is only lazy he will never or not without some difficulties meet what he wants or doesn't want to know.I think that the remembering of your past lives is independant from your good will, but depends mainly from the degree of your increased conscious, which enlarge your memory. And if you are studying the cases of people who remembered their past lives, it is always done by traumatism. There, I think, you cannot more talk of being in the right time because we need then this remembering. The cases are often and mostly very young children who remembered their death because they had suffered a violent death. That isn't the case for all of us. To return to this children, they remembered it nearly almost suddenly, without any preparations or need for their actual lifetime and even they aren't in the situation that they want to know everything about their past life.
Now, Bina, do you understand, what I mean and why I am answering this to your comment?
People in a certain age have very much difficulties to remember anything of this problem and need to purify their memory by several technics such as meditation. The great buddhist masters can do so, but for us ...? We can train it and hope that it will occur.
Sunny
Janus
Well-known member
I've never heard of children remembering things from past lives. I can't recall remembering anything myself, although maybe I did and I forgot it eventually
Personally, I would be interested to know what I was in past live/s. I don't know if or how it's possible to do so. But I'd like to. Why? Just curious.
In my chart I have my South Node in Libra in the 4th House. If that is relevant at all.
Personally, I would be interested to know what I was in past live/s. I don't know if or how it's possible to do so. But I'd like to. Why? Just curious.
In my chart I have my South Node in Libra in the 4th House. If that is relevant at all.
the act of Feeling anything gives rise to awareness of something occurring.
Suffering and Joy exist on the same spectrum of feelings that make up all clues to communicating forces.. In order to have friction that gives rise to the sense of touching and knowing, there must be variability and scale to everything..
nothing is disconnected, only the illusion(the ELUSION when you choose not to sense anything)..
Suffering and Joy exist on the same spectrum of feelings that make up all clues to communicating forces.. In order to have friction that gives rise to the sense of touching and knowing, there must be variability and scale to everything..
nothing is disconnected, only the illusion(the ELUSION when you choose not to sense anything)..
Bina
Well-known member
Sunny,
the great Buddhist masters and other masters remember their past lives because they are strong enough to do so - strong enough to take it, not only because their memory power is greater. They also have more consciousness and inner strength to deal with it.
Young Children who remember their past lives because they have suffered some extreme trauma or violent death, do so because the imprint of that experience was so powerful that it was carried over into the next life, perhaps the next incarnation was soon after the previous death so the memory of the trauma remained on the surface of consciousness. And who can tell whether they need this memory or not, perhaps because it was very recent and the shock is still with them, they need to remember so they can somehow process their trauma?
the great Buddhist masters and other masters remember their past lives because they are strong enough to do so - strong enough to take it, not only because their memory power is greater. They also have more consciousness and inner strength to deal with it.
Young Children who remember their past lives because they have suffered some extreme trauma or violent death, do so because the imprint of that experience was so powerful that it was carried over into the next life, perhaps the next incarnation was soon after the previous death so the memory of the trauma remained on the surface of consciousness. And who can tell whether they need this memory or not, perhaps because it was very recent and the shock is still with them, they need to remember so they can somehow process their trauma?