Inside the true motives of Scorpio.

Osamenor

Staff member
Yin and yang are gendered.
However, everyone has both yin and yang in them, no matter what gender the person is. I think that's what Baat is getting at: Mars may be yang and Venus may be yin, but that doesn't mean women have only Venus and men have only Mars.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Of course, understood.

But it's hard to get away from the core meanings of yin as female and yang as male in Chinese thought, along with all of their other attributes.
 

ardentika

Well-known member
I agree. I think this depends on the astrologer, although I feel like I'm stating the obvious. I always like Rudhyar as an antidote to pop astrology, I think his sign descriptions are balanced.

He describes the abstract meaning of Scorpio as: "The substance of association and marriage. Manifestation of the urge to unite with others. Regeneration of the attitude of self-centeredness."

He describes the concrete and traditional meaning thusly: "Sex. Occultism. All types of power and magical operation. Regenerative function. Will. Obstinacy. Revengefulness. Jealousy. Driving force."

The only other two sign descriptions that include the word "power" are Aries ("The male power") and Taurus ("The female power"). I don't take this as him implying Scorpio is "the most powerful," but rather that the other signs aren't as defined by power as a concept. Does that make sense?

That itself explains very well the 8th house also. 7 to 9th are considered the others/partnership houses. You start with the commitment from 7th and then you build the intimacy in 8th and then you combine the life philosophy and beliefs in 9th so that you can project it in the life goals in 10th.

It always baffled me how come Scorpio would rule 8th of intimacy (not only sexual but emotional) when Scorpio had such a bad rep. Then with all things there are many levels of awareness and perception and development. People with a developed Scorpio positions would be one of the most loving and caring ones. They tend to be a bit of control freaks but so is Virgo haha.

I still don't think this is a real phenomenon, just confirmation bias. If you believe Scorpio is perceived as overpowered then that means the person in question perceived the sign this way, themselves. Hence they will only find such interpretations . Confirmation bias.
 

seethesun

Member
well, I'm a double scorpio with mars and sun conjunction to asc. also pluto and mercury in a first house. And I can tell you that I feel like a real scorpio. :biggrin:

First of all, maybe the most important to me is my privacy. I tend to get really "tired" around some people so there is nothing better for me than to be alone at my place.
I'm a hedonist, I adore spicy food and strong drinks. I also like strong personalities, people who are not afraid to be themselves.

I do not like to talk very much. I hate when someone is explaining something which is obvious. specially chit-chat. like why?

I want to be successful in my career. I don't feel good with authorities and large groups so I'm trying to work alone.

Reason why I want to be successful?
I want to show people that they can do it to!

That is an ultimate success to me.

I don't like to feel sorry for people.
What someone else does it is simply not my concern.
I'm not a judge to tell them is it right or wrong.
But I want to inspire them to be who they are.

The biggest and strongest battles are the one inside of us.
At least, that is my opinion. I feel my battles and challenges on everyday basis. And then I'm fighting inside. No one needs to know because no one should care more about them than me.

My life is hard since the day I was born. My fears are hunting me, my dreams are very vivid and cold. But I learn that in order to be better I need to face my fears. Maybe that is one of the reasons I love to be alone. I go deep in myself, in past, looking for the memories and feelings that once made me feel bad and I pull them up to surface in order to change them.

I have that luck (or simply it is scorpio magnetism) that I'm good looking woman. No one ever said I look cute, but exotic. Part of my "exotic" look is based on fact that I look "dark". Men like me, ok, most of them wants this sexy body :biggrin: but I am straight forward with them and it seem they like me more after that. I guess men like challenges but with me they are just wasting time.

I don't like to be seduced. I'm choosing my man. I need to be challenged in order to be interested. (after this writting, I guess I'm a man). And by challenged I mean intellectually. Sex is very important to me but more in philosophical level. I don't need to have an intercourse all the time, but sex is something I strongly feel in everything.

Is this why people think of us scorpios hard? intense? that we are "bad" people looking for our own interests? In my case I do not see it that way.
I will always look out for those who can't fight for themselves; children, animals, older people, sick people... I will always try to give my best to people. Because, you see, before anything I must be proud of myself.
Proud that in this given life I need to learn how to be a good human.

Now I'm going to drink champagne in a bathtub.

Have a nice day.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
I still don't think this is a real phenomenon, just confirmation bias. If you believe Scorpio is perceived as overpowered then that means the person in question perceived the sign this way, themselves. Hence they will only find such interpretations . Confirmation bias.

And why does it have to be people fooling themselves? That's a cynical viewpoint.

Here is an exercise, if you are willing to engage. These are two descriptions of the signs Scorpio and Taurus. If you read both, what do you notice about the length, tone, detail etc of the two different descriptions?


Taurus http://www.skyscript.co.uk/taurus.html

Scorpio
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/scorpio.html
 

Lykanized

Well-known member
And why does it have to be people fooling themselves? That's a cynical viewpoint.

Here is an exercise, if you are willing to engage. These are two descriptions of the signs Scorpio and Taurus. If you read both, what do you notice about the length, tone, detail etc of the two different descriptions?


Taurus http://www.skyscript.co.uk/taurus.html

Scorpio
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/scorpio.html
You’re better at explaining and putting into words basically some of what I was trying to. You’re right. Some people may want to deny it, but you are right

[Deleted potentially inflammatory comment. - Moderator]
 
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Osamenor

Staff member
Manners, people, manners. Speaking as a moderator. A few posts have been deleted for not remembering that.

Modern or traditional, it's still astrology. If you don't want to read a source because it's not your flavor of astrology, you don't have to, but that doesn't mean be rude about it. That also doesn't mean be rude back.

Speaking as myself, individually, I did read the two descriptions. They sound equally positive, and equally negative, to me.

Personally, I see Taurus/Scorpio as a power axis, and both the signs seem to me to have a strong feminine energy. Not just because they're earth and water, which are yin, but I also associate them with powerful Goddess dates: Beltane and Samhain, which fall in Taurus month and Scorpio month, respectively.

All signs in opposition are two sides of the same coin. For Taurus and Scorpio, both deal with sexuality, but different parts of it. Both correlate with resource and money houses: mine (Taurus, second) and yours/ours (Scorpio, eighth). Both have a certain quiet and depth to them. Both have a strong need for personal space, manifesting as Scorpio secrecy and Taurus "I shall not be moved."

But, of course, we're talking about the signs themselves, in pure archetypal form. Birth charts are more complex than that.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Just a big on signs & houses.

I don't see signs and houses as meaning the same thing, nor does a sign "rule" a house by-the-numbers. Scorpio as the 8th sign doesn't "rule" the 8th house, except to some modern astrologers.

A good book on this is Deborah Houlding, Houses: Temples of the Sky. I think it was C. E. O. Carter in the mid-20th century who initially matched up planets, signs, and houses, by the numbers (apart from medical astrology.) Once in a while this match-up works well,if a person simultaneously has a lot of planets involving, say, Scorpio, the 8th house, and Pluto. Such a person is said to be am "8th chord" or "8th key" person.

Basically a planet that rules the sign on a house cusp can be said to rule the affairs of that house, but the cusp sign doesn't itself rule the house. A house or sign can, however, rule various themes, objects, and parts of the body.

Sexuality shows up in several places in the chart: Mars + Venus, and the 5th for casual affairs as well as for children. The 8th house & sex works more in a medical or physical way because the 8th house includes the genital and eliminative organs.

There are various ways of putting this, but basically a sign shows how or in what manner a planet operates. A house shows where or in what area of life a planet operates. Signs and houses have different functions.

Having said that, planets, signs, and houses by-the-numbers match up better in some instances than in others. The 9th house, Sagittarius, and Jupiter are one of the better matches. But unless the person has Aries rising-- Aries, Mars, and the first house are not a great match.

Scorpio has a reputation for being secretive. (The rationale I read once was that if other people really knew what sun-Scorpio was thinking, they'd lock him up.)

I have noticed that people with their sun in the 8th, 12th, or 4th houses tend to be more private, other factors being equal.

But other supposed Scorpio traits are not particularly 8th house. Scorpios apparently have a weak sense of their personal boundaries-- where they stop and the other person begins. They tend to push their boundaries with another person until s/he says, "stop!" which is useful for the Scorpio to learn. But this seems more like Mars-sun than like the 8th house, which conventionally deals with proceeds from a marriage, death, the sexual and eliminative organs, shared resources like investments, and the occult.

I've also observed that 8th house people often do think about death more than most people, or were unusually interested in sexuality from a young age. These may or may not be Scorpio traits. For example, if Scorpio is the sign on the cusp of the 11th house and that's where the sun is, the 11th house of friends and hopes for the future moderate those 8th house-Scorpio preoccupations.
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
@Osamenor

Why was Lykan's post deleted, when she was only responding to the post that I created (and to which you yourself have given your views)?

Could you elaborate more on the connection you see between Beltane/Samhain and the Scorpio/Taurus axis?
 

Baat

Well-known member
Maybe it depends on your own personality? I have lots of Capricorn and Virgo in my chart, and reading the Taurus description felt like taking a bubble bath. I have to say, the skyscript sign descriptions are wonderful in general, just beautifully written with a lot of rich context for the symbolism of the sign. I love this excerpt in particular:

"This is a time of pleasant, relaxing warmth, lush greenery and gentle colours; the season of fertility where nature abounds with the rearing of the young and tender."
 

conspiracy theorist

Well-known member
I also enjoyed all the skyscript descriptions on the 12 signs, and I chose that website because of the high quality of each description and the even-handedness that each sign was treated with. However, I did notice that there was less said about Taurus in terms of length, lore and detail (despite the opening that stated it being one of the oldest signs of the zodiac). I guess certain signs inspire the imagination more.

I've also noticed that Scorpio threads are perennial in the ability to cause lively discussion and debate.
 

Baat

Well-known member
I also enjoyed all the skyscript descriptions on the 12 signs, and I chose that website because of the high quality of each description and the even-handedness that each sign was treated with. However, I did notice that there was less said about Taurus in terms of length, lore and detail (despite the opening that stated it being one of the oldest signs of the zodiac). I guess certain signs inspire the imagination more.

I've also noticed that Scorpio threads are perennial in the ability to cause lively discussion and debate.

Honestly I don't think there was more actually "said" in the Scorpio description. Because it's associated with privacy, taboos, and death it makes sense to me that those subjects might require more specificity.

Personally I wasn't too eager or troubled by the topic of Scorpio until my unfortunate experience that I described earlier. I've always noticed the effects of a Scorpio individual in a crowded room and been fascinated by whatever that is. I generally love Scorpios, until I'm competing with a heavy Scorpio female for the attention of a guy, which has happened to me more times than I could say, lol. That's the funny thing about it though, it's never fun to be up against someone with this mysterious power, but at the end of the day when I'm laying in bed I have absolutely no interest in power for its own sake. So I guess it bothers me, and doesn't simultaneously. Which for me goes to the core of Scorpio being more associated with power than other signs.

I currently have Pluto transiting a trine with my natal Venus, and I've seen how this power isn't all roses anyway. It's a slight stretch as I know Pluto and Scorpio are not *the same* but I've noticed I get more attention from men now, but it tends to be relatively shallow attention directed towards sex. They get to a certain level of intimacy and then they get weird, kind of possessive and kind of scared. The average person is fascinated and terrified of darkness in equal measure.
 
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ardentika

Well-known member
Let's just see if I fit the stereotypes for the sake of it.

I have Venus Conjunct NN in Scorpio in 8th/9th (depend in on the house system) . Pluto at 29 Scorpio conjunct Jupiter I'm 2 Sag.
Pluto squares Saturn and Mars (possibly my Axis too)

I grew up in a challenging family and as a kid I always had nightmares. Not only that but I was pretty sure I was seeing demons in our old apartment. I was 5. I hadn't shared that with anyone however at some point even my atheist father dicided to turn to the occult ,calling psychics and healers. I blame this entirely on the node tbh.

I grew up being fascinated with the occult, esp demons. I don't have religious background but I still believed in them. I had awful night terrors for ages. Around when I was 17 my family struggled again, turns out my mom was having the same nightmares and my dad too. They ended up going to baptise him because he wasnt. After that things just changed dramatically. It all went away.

Perhaps until I was 21 or so I feared deeply the unseen and the dark. I had to get into psychology and spirituality to heal my mental issues and transform them . Now that I'm 24 things are completely different.

Okay let's go back to Venus. When I turned 15 I always had guys fascinated with me for unknown reason. I'm definitely not that beautiful and I can be distant. However I've had boyfriend's of best friends fall for me at least 5 times. And I didn't even realize. That happened even with a friend who has the same conjunction and a few more planets than me in Scorpio , so no idea how that worked. They say the Node is like a master illusionist and it puts an illusion spell on you depending on which planet it conjuncts and what it wants.

I've also had many guys fall for me so deeply it hurts and makes them run. I had a guy obsessed with me for over 2y. He just wanted to have sex with me and that was it. And he was pretty open and persistent about it even when I was mean and pushing him away.

I wasn't sexually active till 19. Even after that for some time I was prone to celibacy until I learned sex can be a great healing tool.

I've been also mildly sexually abused and emotionally abused a lot. Almost as if they liked seeing me rise from the ashes after being broken.

Now I'm very much into psychology and spirituality. I can easily see people's blockages and psychological patterns, only because I spent a lot of time figuring myself out, and people aren't that different.

So yes, this is why I don't mind the stereotypes cos I am one of them lol.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
@Osamenor

Why was Lykan's post deleted, when she was only responding to the post that I created (and to which you yourself have given your views)?
Initially, I deleted it because I saw a comment that might have been an attack, and even if not, looked likely to contribute to what seemed to be a building derail. I just went back and reviewed it, and decided to restore it, with the potentially problematic comment deleted. Her real comment on your post is back.

Even the deleted comment might be okay if it's reworded in a way that can't be mistaken for an attack. When there's an asterisked out word, and it's part of a conversation that did include some attacking posts, it's potential for trouble.

Could you elaborate more on the connection you see between Beltane/Samhain and the Scorpio/Taurus axis?
Besides Beltane falling in Taurus month and Samhain in Scorpio month?

If you're not familiar with Beltane and Samhain, you probably do know about May Day and Halloween/Day of the Dead. They're variations of the same, falling on the same dates, and the symbolism is pretty much the same. In Pagan/Wiccan/Celtic tradition, those times of year are when the veil between the material world and spirit world is thinnest and easiest crossed. Samhain in particular gets that association, dealing as it does with death. But it's also an association with Beltane.

Samhain/Halloween/Day of the Dead is entirely Scorpionic: otherworldly, thinking about death, remembering the dead, playing with fear of death. Beltane is a celebration of spring, summer, fertility, flowers blooming, nature, earth, and yes, sexuality, too: I think of it as a back to the earth time. Perhaps not coincidentally, May Day has also become International Workers' Day, and I see Taurus symbolism in that: people who work with their hands, build things, form the bedrock of society, standing up for their rights and refusing to be moved. The refusing to be moved part is especially Taurean.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Just a big on signs & houses.

I don't see signs and houses as meaning the same thing, nor does a sign "rule" a house by-the-numbers. Scorpio as the 8th sign doesn't "rule" the 8th house, except to some modern astrologers.
I'm not saying they are the same thing. Just that there's some correlation.

I have noticed that people with their sun in the 8th, 12th, or 4th houses tend to be more private, other factors being equal.

I've also observed that 8th house people often do think about death more than most people, or were unusually interested in sexuality from a young age. These may or may not be Scorpio traits. For example, if Scorpio is the sign on the cusp of the 11th house and that's where the sun is, the 11th house of friends and hopes for the future moderate those 8th house-Scorpio preoccupations.

You're almost describing my chart. I don't have sun in Scorpio, but I do have it in the eighth, and Scorpio is my eleventh.
 

Osamenor

Staff member
Okay let's go back to Venus. When I turned 15 I always had guys fascinated with me for unknown reason.

Interesting about the timing of that. 14 1/2 - 15 is Saturn opposition age. I've seen your natal, and I know you have Saturn at your AC, so when you had your Saturn opposition, it would've come from your DC. There were probably other astrological triggers that made it play out exactly how it did, but I would think that Saturn opposition might've had something to do with it.
 

ardentika

Well-known member
Interesting about the timing of that. 14 1/2 - 15 is Saturn opposition age. I've seen your natal, and I know you have Saturn at your AC, so when you had your Saturn opposition, it would've come from your DC. There were probably other astrological triggers that made it play out exactly how it did, but I would think that Saturn opposition might've had something to do with it.

I'm not sure how Saturn plays in that but definitely it was the time I started dating and exploring those waters. I think just the master illusionist rahu was helping me to have that experience haha.
 

Lykanized

Well-known member
@Osamenor

Why was Lykan's post deleted, when she was only responding to the post that I created (and to which you yourself have given your views)?

Could you elaborate more on the connection you see between Beltane/Samhain and the Scorpio/Taurus axis?
This site drives me...mad. Since asterisked words are now suspect I can't say it drives me bat----. Everyone is so sensitive
 

Lykanized

Well-known member
I state things in ways people don't like. Look below the surface, analyze, think about what things mean before you react
 

Lykanized

Well-known member
Let's just see if I fit the stereotypes for the sake of it.

I have Venus Conjunct NN in Scorpio in 8th/9th (depend in on the house system) . Pluto at 29 Scorpio conjunct Jupiter I'm 2 Sag.
Pluto squares Saturn and Mars (possibly my Axis too)

I grew up in a challenging family and as a kid I always had nightmares. Not only that but I was pretty sure I was seeing demons in our old apartment. I was 5. I hadn't shared that with anyone however at some point even my atheist father dicided to turn to the occult ,calling psychics and healers. I blame this entirely on the node tbh.

I grew up being fascinated with the occult, esp demons. I don't have religious background but I still believed in them. I had awful night terrors for ages. Around when I was 17 my family struggled again, turns out my mom was having the same nightmares and my dad too. They ended up going to baptise him because he wasnt. After that things just changed dramatically. It all went away.

Perhaps until I was 21 or so I feared deeply the unseen and the dark. I had to get into psychology and spirituality to heal my mental issues and transform them . Now that I'm 24 things are completely different.

Okay let's go back to Venus. When I turned 15 I always had guys fascinated with me for unknown reason. I'm definitely not that beautiful and I can be distant. However I've had boyfriend's of best friends fall for me at least 5 times. And I didn't even realize. That happened even with a friend who has the same conjunction and a few more planets than me in Scorpio , so no idea how that worked. They say the Node is like a master illusionist and it puts an illusion spell on you depending on which planet it conjuncts and what it wants.

I've also had many guys fall for me so deeply it hurts and makes them run. I had a guy obsessed with me for over 2y. He just wanted to have sex with me and that was it. And he was pretty open and persistent about it even when I was mean and pushing him away.

I wasn't sexually active till 19. Even after that for some time I was prone to celibacy until I learned sex can be a great healing tool.

I've been also mildly sexually abused and emotionally abused a lot. Almost as if they liked seeing me rise from the ashes after being broken.

Now I'm very much into psychology and spirituality. I can easily see people's blockages and psychological patterns, only because I spent a lot of time figuring myself out, and people aren't that different.

So yes, this is why I don't mind the stereotypes cos I am one of them lol.
What if someone relates to you without having those placements? It would seem the forer effect is the likely cause

I relate to you. I don't have those placements at all

You always have to dig deeper. Nothing said is relevant without some deeper foundation. You'd think a Scorpionic individual would be on that wave, but it doesn't seem that that stereotype holds water
 
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