Lords of the Geniture in our Charts.

cspencer said:

Another method also used is the chart ruler being the Star ruling the sign the Moon enters after leaving its natal sign.

Maternus elaborates some on that method.

If natal Moon is in Aries, then Venus is the chart ruler, since the next sign is Taurus.

If natal Moon is in Gemini or Cancer, then the chart ruler is Mercury, since the Sun and Moon cannot be chart rulers and the next sign is Virgo.

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I believe that Maternus is the only astrologer whose writings have survived to put forth this method, even though he "claims" that it is both the easiest and most preferred by his contemporaries.

Actually, Abu Ma'shar seems to go along with it in his text on solar revolutions. His ideas about lord of the year when a profected chart has Cancer or Leo rising is something that gives me headaches.

In most older writings I do see people being described by planets - jovial, martial, etc., but not solar or lunar.

Which is kind of interesting.

A very quick and not entirely complete exploration of the LoG.

http://www.medievalastrologyguide.com/log-and-almuten.html

tsmall said:

I believe that Maternus is the only astrologer whose writings have survived to put forth this method, even though he "claims" that it is both the easiest and most preferred by his contemporaries.

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What does the chart ruler bring to the table?

I remember Dykes writing something about almutens/victors and saying that the whole process wasn't very satisfying.

What would the chart ruler tell us that we don't already know from the chart?

I just think there should be some utility to the methods and procedures used. It doesn't make sense to jump through hoops and get nothing out of it.

I would like to nail down the correct doctrine, and then see what, if anything it adds.

Oddity said:

Actually, Abu Ma'shar seems to go along with it in his text on solar revolutions. His ideas about lord of the year when a profected chart has Cancer or Leo rising is something that gives me headaches.

In most older writings I do see people being described by planets - jovial, martial, etc., but not solar or lunar.

Which is kind of interesting.

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Sun and Moon are more like attributes, status for Sun and life for Moon.

The chart ruler method should be consistent for all charts. I just wish we knew which one actually is the real deal.

I never really spent much time with chart rulers, because too many chiefs and not enough indians.

I'm more into predictive astrology, so I'm not seeing much value in a chart ruler when we already have time lords and profected lords and such.

cspencer said:

What does the chart ruler bring to the table?

I remember Dykes writing something about almutens/victors and saying that the whole process wasn't very satisfying.

What would the chart ruler tell us that we don't already know from the chart?

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I'm no expert but I believe the original purpose of ascertaining the ruler of the chart was for length of life calculations, and directions to and by the planet were useful in determining critical times.

cspencer said:

I just think there should be some utility to the methods and procedures used. It doesn't make sense to jump through hoops and get nothing out of it.

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Two thoughts. The first is that perhaps there are differing methods for finding the chart ruler because it evolved from the predominator to the hyleg to what later became either the LoG or the Almuten of the Figure. The secnd is that maybe it needed to evolve because primary directions seem to be a **** shoot.

cspencer said:

I would like to nail down the correct doctrine, and then see what, if anything it adds.

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No kidding. I suppose that in conjunction with temperament calculations it would give a clearer picture of what manner of person the native is. Bonatti spent quite a long chapter in his book on nativities just going over how to determine the quality of the soul. It would seem to be useful in predictive work, because to understand what the native will do it helps to understand what motivates him and how he will react to specific situations.

Oddity said:

Actually, Abu Ma'shar seems to go along with it in his text on solar revolutions. His ideas about lord of the year when a profected chart has Cancer or Leo rising is something that gives me headaches.

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So many books, so little time to read them all. Though if it is anything like trying to figure out Masha'Allah's "hot potato" pushing disposition method...

tsmall said:

Two thoughts. The first is that perhaps there are differing methods for finding the chart ruler because it evolved from the predominator to the hyleg to what later became either the LoG or the Almuten of the Figure. The secnd is that maybe it needed to evolve because primary directions seem to be a **** shoot.

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That's a good point. At least it gives me a starting place to look. I'm not much on PDs either.

http://www.cieloeterra.it/eng/eng.articoli.incontri/incontri.html

tsmall said:

No kidding. I suppose that in conjunction with temperament calculations it would give a clearer picture of what manner of person the native is. Bonatti spent quite a long chapter in his book on nativities just going over how to determine the quality of the soul. It would seem to be useful in predictive work, because to understand what the native will do it helps to understand what motivates him and how he will react to specific situations.

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Okay. See I find temperament to be worthy of my efforts. You spend a little time, but it's very satisfying and tells you something important.

Finding the almuten is also useful if you do astrological magic, but that's slightly outside the scope of this forum.

I also disagree a little bit with Ry's article - the LoG, to the best of my knowledge, does not use the planetary day and hour in its calculations, but the almuten does so sometimes they end up being different planets, albeit I think both calculations are probably trying to express the same concept.

Insightful thread. I didn't this.I want to know what is my LOG

I done it with Astrofox website,and I found it confusing.The site calculated my ascedant in cancer while it should be in Leo like it was calculated by astro.com and solargold fire. I guess they got the time zone wrong.

This is the result that I got,when I had to add one hour to ASTROFOX.COM software to get my birth chart with the Leo ascedant in it correct degree.

I'm just not into assigning weighted points to the Stars on an arbitrary basis.
And I'm not convinced the Places have any power.

My Lord of the Geniture is Saturn. I worked on my chart using William Lilly's book, "An Easie and Plaine Method Teaching How to judge upon NATIVITIES" and have enjoyed the process, but haven't finished it yet.

Saturn fits ---- I tend to be brooding, thoughtful, can get depressed, and can easily end up feeling I am carrying a heavy burden. I have met few people who are capable of taking on a task and completing it as thoroughly and responsibly as I can -- although this quality isn't always fun to have as it can mean it's hard to put work down and cut loose....