david starling
Well-known member
One of them is an I.RS. Agent!!!
Well, alright, that would scare just about anyone!
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
- Thread starter rahu
- Start date
Well, alright, that would scare just about anyone!
AppLeo
Well-known member
With my ability to reason, I have the courage to slay any socialist monster that comes my way!! >:l
Dirius
Well-known member
Oh you think its funny right? Of course, guess its fine in Canada with their textbook socialism - people in my country have unfortunately been killed by "socialists hiding in their closet".
Has anyone in your family ever been killed by a socialist revolutionary soldier? Tortured to death by them? Please learn a little bit about history before making fun of it. A lot of people have had their family members brutally murdered by "socialists hiding under their beds", and actually this is the case for many. Paula Lambruschini died from a bomb a socialist placed under her bed.
But I guess to you its just something to laugh at. I find that disgusting.
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%ADctimas_de_las_organizaciones_guerrilleras_en_Argentina_en_la_d%C3%A9cada_de_1970
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armando_Lambruschini#Asesinato_de_su_hija
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david starling
Well-known member
What's happening to the migrant children the Trump administration has disappeared?
https://www.veteranstoday.com/2018/0...te-pedophiles/
Trump Feeding “Tear Away” Immigrant Kids to America’s “Elite Pedophiles
There are two primary ratlines for stolen kids, one in Europe, one in America. Here it runs from New York, to Washington, to Florida, three areas where law enforcement and the courts are owned. DC courts were stacked by the neocons under Bush43 after the Franklin pedophile scandals threatened to bring down a presidency.
Florida is totally owned, courts, local police departments, sheriffs elections, along with totally corrupt Tallahassee. New York is the same, with payoff cash running the ratline from drug ridden Montreal, down through Albany to the Kosher Nostra dens of the Trump/Kushner empire.
The “elites,” as they love calling themselves, who own the Federal Reserve, run Washington and London, who start our wars, loot our economy, run our media, control our lives, live on a diet of ritual sexual abuse, sex hormones and amphetamines.
Their diet of stolen children come from families destroyed by narcotics or targeted by fake courts and fake police. Kids seized by “family services” are picked through and fed into the rape and murder mill of the real “Pizzagate,” built around those who own the GOP.
Adding to this is the beauty pageant circuit and the fake “modeling” business where our current first lady comes from, picking through the beauties of Central and Eastern Europe whose governments are entirely compromised, Slovenia, Bulgaria, Romania, Ukraine (now), Croatia and Slovakia. They are planning to add Montenegro and Serbia to the list.
The European end runs kids from Africa and the Middle East, up through Spain or Albania, ratlining them to Belgium, where they are sent to Germany and Britain and later simply disposed of.
In America, it began with “boy’s homes” and detention centers. It began with teenage boys but, as it moved on, it became smaller and smaller children.
For Washington, it has always been pre-teen girls until the Reagan era when the “gay mafia” of the neocon’s took over. This is when Trump and Epstein came into power as “suppliers to America’s leadership.”
Kids that hit the US border, and this is Trump’s doing 100%, are picked through like meat, the “prime kids” are sent off to pedophile rings run by Trump cronies, to be passed around Pentagon brass, Tea Party get togethers and among the GOP faithful. They are stored at elite hunting “camps” and “religious retreats” owned by billionaires and big corporate donors. We aren’t making this up, it isn’t fake news and it was originally “busted” as the Franklin Scandal.
Always blame the Democrats, this is typical of Trump’s propaganda “fake everything” machineIt is now supposedly the “Law of the Land” according to Trump. He made that part up. This is the why of Pizzagate and the “Lock her Up!” chants and those involved in this disinformation campaign were covering up more than Trump’s obscene “foundation” or the murder of 12 year old Mary Doe or the rape of little Jane Doe.
This is why Epstein flew so many on his plane, to “soften” the numbers, to “hide in a crowd” when it came out that he and Donnie were running a blackmail ring for the Kosher Nostra. Those free rides on the Lolita Express for some may have been innocent but accepting this “gift” gave Epstein and Trump all they needed.
Imagine the worst thing Bill Clinton is accused of is riding on a plane with Epstein and Trump?
When it comes to “fake everything,” the “Stone and Bannon Express” deserves credit, and with the help of the mob, Israeli intelligence and a dozen rogue billionaire satanists backing them, took over the US and are using its treasury as a personal piggybank and its military as paid thugs.
Gangs tied to ICE are now officially empowered to simply “disappear” children who come to the American border, no matter the circumstances, with or without parents. This simply isn’t legal. The constitution is very specific about this, due process and constitutional rights apply to all, citizens and non-citizens alike.
According to congress, last year 1475 went officially “missing” while thousands of others were never logged in at all. These were, using Trump’s own language, “Sportin’ kids,” those deemed “doable” by the elites that get a special kick from humiliating and destroying a small human body. In the middle of it are the leaders of Christian evangelical groups across America, TV preachers mixing it up with oil execs, newspaper owners, Harvard law professors and “Stink Tank thugs” of DC’s “lie for pay” propaganda ministry.
From the Washintgon Post, May 29, 2018:
Press TV: US President Donald Trump has falsely defended his administration’s policy of separating undocumented families at the US-Mexico border by blaming Democratic Party lawmakers in Congress.
“I hate the children being taken away. The Democrats have to change their law. That’s their law,” Trump said Friday while speaking to a group of reporters outside the White House.
However, no law US mandates separating children from their parents who illegally enter the country. Reporters repeatedly noted to Trump that his statement about the policy was untrue.
“[Attorney General Jeff Sessions is] following laws, very simply, that were given to us and forced upon us by the Democrats,” Trump said.
“But there’s no law that says families have to be separated at the border,” a reporter responded.
“The Democrats gave us the laws. I want the laws to be beautiful,” Trump repeated.
Nearly 2,000 immigrant children were separated from parents over a period of about six weeks in April and May, according to the Department of Homeland Security.
The number is a dramatic uptick from the nearly 1,800 family separations from October 2016 through February 2018.
Currently, there are over 10,000 children being detained in the United States.
PressTV-US churches slam biblical justification of separating families
US Christian leaders slam Attorney General Jeff Sessions for saying Bible justifies separating kids from families.
The Trump administration’s current policy of separating families was announced April 6 and went into effect in May. Previously, people who entered the country illegally and had no criminal record were detained or referred for deportation, and mothers and children usually remained together.
Democrats have condemned the new process, calling it inhumane and cruel. “This is not a zero-tolerance policy — this is a zero-humanity policy,” said Senator Jeff Merkley, who recently visited detention centers in Texas to see where immigrant children were being held.
A US border patrol official told Reuters children are sometimes separated from the adults they are traveling with if officials suspect the relationship is fraudulent.
Once children are separated, they are treated as unaccompanied minors under the care of the Department of Health and Human Services, which houses them in government facilities, puts them in temporary foster care, or releases them to adult sponsors in the United States.
The moves by the government to separate families have been widely decried by the United Nations, medical professionals and a wide swath of US religious leaders
waybread
Well-known member
Dirius, it is horrifying what happened to your family members. Obviously I meant them no disrespect, and had no way of knowing about your family experiences.
But this is a thread about a progressive Democratic American politician. There is a huge difference between someone like presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, who calls himself a democratic socialist, and a socialist revolutionary soldier. There is a big difference between the governments of Scandinavia today and the USSR under a brutal dictator.
This doesn't mean you'd want Bernie Sanders for president or to live in Scandinavia, but just to point out differences among socialists.
But this is a thread about a progressive Democratic American politician. There is a huge difference between someone like presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, who calls himself a democratic socialist, and a socialist revolutionary soldier. There is a big difference between the governments of Scandinavia today and the USSR under a brutal dictator.
This doesn't mean you'd want Bernie Sanders for president or to live in Scandinavia, but just to point out differences among socialists.
Dirius
Well-known member
No one in my immediate family died from communists (neither have I made such claim). But many people in my country did. And many families in Argentina have suffered because of some "idealist school boys" decided to take up arms and terrorize the civilians during the late 60's and early 70's. And then that lead to a civil war. Many civilian argentinians lost their lives to terrorist attacks, many children included.
Imagine if I had made fun of 9/11, or the orlando shooting? Would you find it funny? I don't think so. South America has suffered more than any other continent under marxist ideology. Both economically, and with their lives.
There is no diference, that is how it starts. Communism in south america began the same way as with Bernie Sanders. Some popular politician spousing socialist dogma that got elected by promising free education and free health-care. That is what happened with Chavez, which leads to the brutal dictatorship of Maduro in Venezuela. That is what happened in Argentina with Nestor Kirchner which lead to the near dictatorship of CFK. You are walking on that path in the U.S., and trust me it doesn't get better, it gets worst.
Dirius
Well-known member
As for the nordic model, there are some interesting factors to it.
As a start, they have no progressive tax rates, but flat, treating each citizen equally (which isn't what Bernie proposes). They also have a low corporate tax rate (22%, unlike what Bernie wants or Obama had). They also have flexible employee laws, which make firing someone easier. Most of them have no minimum wage either (again, very distinct of what Bernie proposes). The high personal income taxes apply to each citizen equally (at a close to 50% rate, unlike what Bernie or AOC want for the "tippy-top").
So what part of the nordic model is Bernie proposing again??
As a start, they have no progressive tax rates, but flat, treating each citizen equally (which isn't what Bernie proposes). They also have a low corporate tax rate (22%, unlike what Bernie wants or Obama had). They also have flexible employee laws, which make firing someone easier. Most of them have no minimum wage either (again, very distinct of what Bernie proposes). The high personal income taxes apply to each citizen equally (at a close to 50% rate, unlike what Bernie or AOC want for the "tippy-top").
So what part of the nordic model is Bernie proposing again??
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waybread
Well-known member
Dirius, I am sorry for what your country suffered. But please delineate between different kinds of socialism.
I get the Washington Post new app. They recently did a historical article on the city of Milwaukee, which had a socialist mayor most of the time from about 1910 to 1960. The mayors campaigned on a promise to clean up corruption. Somehow Milwaukee turned out OK. I suspect that the influence of Big Labour in a then-heavily industrial city made a difference.
Look, I'm not going to the mat for Bernie Sanders. I wouldn't vote for him. I've read several books about Scandinavia, however. Most Scandinavians are OK with the taxes because of all the benefits they get in return. If they get sick or unemployed, they're covered.
My (correct) point is that all socialists are not the same.
I get the Washington Post new app. They recently did a historical article on the city of Milwaukee, which had a socialist mayor most of the time from about 1910 to 1960. The mayors campaigned on a promise to clean up corruption. Somehow Milwaukee turned out OK. I suspect that the influence of Big Labour in a then-heavily industrial city made a difference.
Look, I'm not going to the mat for Bernie Sanders. I wouldn't vote for him. I've read several books about Scandinavia, however. Most Scandinavians are OK with the taxes because of all the benefits they get in return. If they get sick or unemployed, they're covered.
My (correct) point is that all socialists are not the same.
Dirius
Well-known member
Unfortunately, they aren't. The diference lies in the predominent culture, and national identity. Because of this, socialism is pandered in a different manner to each different culture. But the underline is the same. Chavez began like bernie, just a guy with a political opinion. And the change in Venezuela was slow, because it tooks them 20 years to ruin it.
And how is it different? Lets say I don't want to pay the exhorbitant taxes in my country and I just wish to pay for the services I actually use, because it is my money. What would happen in Norway? or Sweden? or Denmark? I would go to jail. What does going to jail mean? It means a bunch of armed guys would enter my home, restrain me, and put me in a holding cell against my will. That is a violent act against my person, for the sole reason I want to keep the money I earned for myself. Sending armed police officers for wanting to keep my own money. So any person that is in favour of high taxation, by definition is in favour of doing violent acts against other individuals, specially when they demand othe people from paying more than they consume.
So ANY type of marxists, be it a "socialist-democrat" or a "communist", wants to the same. To bring harm to others if they oppose them.
And how is it different? Lets say I don't want to pay the exhorbitant taxes in my country and I just wish to pay for the services I actually use, because it is my money. What would happen in Norway? or Sweden? or Denmark? I would go to jail. What does going to jail mean? It means a bunch of armed guys would enter my home, restrain me, and put me in a holding cell against my will. That is a violent act against my person, for the sole reason I want to keep the money I earned for myself. Sending armed police officers for wanting to keep my own money. So any person that is in favour of high taxation, by definition is in favour of doing violent acts against other individuals, specially when they demand othe people from paying more than they consume.
So ANY type of marxists, be it a "socialist-democrat" or a "communist", wants to the same. To bring harm to others if they oppose them.
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AppLeo
Well-known member
Actually, Scandinavia isn't really that socialist. It has a very strong free market despite the high taxes. And many scandinavians complain about the high taxes. Also, in Sweden, they tax the poor harshly compared to America where we tax the rich and give to the poor.
And also, we're much closer to the circumstances of USSR than we are to the principles set by the Founding Fathers in the constitution. And although progressives aren't exactly a totalitarian dictatorship, they are laying down the foundation for a totalitarian dictatorship. And that's what really concerns me.
Like Cortez's Green New Deal... she is asking us to give up our freedom and give the government even more power. And yet the government has so much power already. Like I'm scared for the future of this country and my own freedom. I can't believe someone like her is actually being taken seriously!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lxD-gikpMs
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Oddity
Well-known member
Thanks for that, Leo. I got downvoted all to hell on reddit once for pointing out that the snow countries are very business and start-up friendly, and are not socialist.
https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist
https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist
AppLeo
Well-known member
No one likes the truth, especially since the only good argument socialists have are the nordic countries. They always go to the nordic countries. But when you refute that, it will always set them off
But it makes sense. If a country is doing well, it's because there's some kind of a strong capitalistic base. In other words, they're still relatively free.
It's a fact that all socialist/communist countries fail or are in the process of collapsing from their own evil. So if a country is doing well, there's no way it's because of socialism.
Also, good article. If Waybread doesn't like my video, she can read the article for more proof.
david starling
Well-known member
Socialism means the Government owns and operates the means of production and distribution, to gain the fullest possible control of the People. Bernie never advocated that, and neither has A.O.C., to the best of my knowledge. Therefore, neither are "socialists".
Fascism means the Government is run like a Corporation, allied with private-sector Corporations for purposes of monetary profit to gain the fullest possible control of the People. That's what we're headed for now.
The Founding Fathers were virulently anti-Corporate, and pro-Private enterprise.
Those who believe a Government's only job is to rule the nation in full partnership with the Corporations, with no regard for the Environment, the educational system, worker-safety, or those who require monetary or regulatory assistance, are the worst sort of Capitalists. The Constitution as it's written and intended by the Founding Fathers is fortunately opposed to their ideology.
Fascism means the Government is run like a Corporation, allied with private-sector Corporations for purposes of monetary profit to gain the fullest possible control of the People. That's what we're headed for now.
The Founding Fathers were virulently anti-Corporate, and pro-Private enterprise.
Those who believe a Government's only job is to rule the nation in full partnership with the Corporations, with no regard for the Environment, the educational system, worker-safety, or those who require monetary or regulatory assistance, are the worst sort of Capitalists. The Constitution as it's written and intended by the Founding Fathers is fortunately opposed to their ideology.
david starling
Well-known member
Strong safety-net though. And LOTS of Government regulations.
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Dirius
Well-known member
Well they did go bankrupt in the late 80's for all those socialist policies. In fact, since that time they've gone for lower taxes each year. Norway's corporate and income tax graphs:
https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/personal-income-tax-rate
https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/corporate-tax-rate
The graphs to show AppleLeo's point.
david starling
Well-known member
What happens if you can't afford your medical care, your food, rent, or your mortgage? The man with a gun will throw you out in the street, to fend for yourself. And, if you resort to crime in order to survive , will throw you in prison.
We do have a different type of "socialistic" ideology, called "Social-Darwinism", which advocates letting the economically disadvantaged die off, since equating human worth with the ability to function well enough in a non-regulated Capitalist economic system, makes them "inferior" human beings. One well-known author actually labeled such people "giant rats"!
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david starling
Well-known member
Dirius, are you actually equating the situation in Venezuela, which is almost entirely dependant on the price of oil, with the economy of the U.S.?
Btw, I don't recall Bernie advocating the Government takeover of the Oil-Industry. Can you quote him on that?
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Dirius
Well-known member
As it happens, we all live in countries based on christian values (or used to). Were we learn to help the sick and the poor, and those that can't help themselves. I'm for one, more than happy to help others with what I can. Problem is that if the goverment taxes me for 70% of my money (as it happens here in Argentina), I really don't have much left to give.
What people in the right-wing spectrum reject, is goverment compulsion. I for one, advocate charity. What I don't want is a useless politician getting involved in my private life so he can leech of my earnings.
Dirius
Well-known member
What Bernie advocates is a giant goverment bureaucracy with regulations that will control most industries. Big goverment leads to cronysm, which leads to corruption. That is what happened in Venezuela.
He also wants high taxes, for the "tippy-top" (around 70%) which would kill investment in most industries. When you have no investment, your economy doesn't grow and does not develop, and you end up only being able to export basic goods that come from natural resources. This is why Venezuela is dependant on oil, because they have no investments in other areas and can only specialize in oil exports. Countries that develop their economies (and thus why they are called "developed" countries) are not affected so much when the price of their commodity goes down, because their economies are based on the production of a large number of products.
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